Not to worry, I will be sure to include a dev rig. :D

As for transferring rigs, I knew it could be done with sphere zones but weights are baked to the mesh. Poser docs cover this well, so the weights are projected and it gives you the choice of including some, all or none of the morphs. So you don't have to hand edit each morph from scratch. I'm sure adjustments can be made using the morph brush too. Overall I'm pretty happy with the new tools in Poser Pro 2012.

Quote - Remove morphs (BIG ONE THIS!!! Copyright can bite you in the butt!!)

Maybe I'm having a Saturday brain-freeze moment, but how would those morphs even be useful anyway? The modeled clothes wouldn't have the same vertices as the original figure so wouldn't the figure's morph deltas be a mess if used on the clothes?

I always manually create shape morphs in clothes (glutton for punishment?), but I'm curious (sorry to derail the thread for a second)...can the morphs generated by Dimension3D's Morphing Clothes script be redistributed? That looks for the nearest vertex (from what I understand) and rebuilds the morphs for the clothes. I can't see why that would be a copyright infringement to redistribute since the resulting deltas would be nothing like the original figure's morph deltas.  Just curious... Does someone know the answer to that?

Quote - Vilters's stance on the breast position baffles me.

I am a woman of ample proportions and I am 58 years old. I still look in the mirror sometimes, even without clothes. I also go to gym and see a lot of nude or scantily dressed ladies there, of all shapes and sizes. The vertical positioning of Dawn's breasts looks perfectly normal to me. OK, we live in different hemispheres, perhaps that is it.

Hemispheres. That's probably it. I say start high and when you want your two hemispheres lower, use a morph or a magnet. Yes, you get texture stretching, just like in reality.

Well, you'd remove the morphs, if the figure has any in the cr2, so that they are not in the way.  A dev rig is also used to create morph packages.  If any original morphs are in there, injection utilities would include them (not an issue here) and PMD would also include them (bloat, potential issues).

In essence, Morphing Clothes would do the same thing as Copy Morphs so if Copy Morphs is allowed, there's no reason Morphing Clothes wouldn't be (or WW or XDresser, which also can do this).

Not sure if my response is strange either, switched back to a morning schedule and it takes me a while to get used to it. :)

"So you don't have to hand edit each morph from scratch. I'm sure adjustments can be made using the morph brush too."

Export a figure as an object. (Or import the original object from the geometry folder)

Then turn it back into a figure by borrowing it's own cr2 in the SetUp room.

All "mouth open" morphs (and others) are ruined because "projecting morphs" is less accurate than "copying morphs", even if it's the figure's original morphs. All other morphs are of course degraded, too, even if it's less obvious.

So I have to delete all the faulty morphs and copy them back in manually.

(Or edit a cr2 manually to point to the new geometry file)

But the "quick and easy" workflow is gone.

@shante:

Yes, I was referring to MorphManager. Still an indespensable tool after all those years, although I was surprised I had to dust it off it again because PP-2014 changed an essential feature of the SetUp room.

Ok, catching up on the list of questions Richard collected for me, I think this should catch us up on most things.

I'm behind a few pages, but if there are questions you feel have been missed, please repost them or email me to remind me, ok?

thanks,

Q: Ethnic morphs and skins
A: They are planned as add-on products for Dawn, not for initial release but are at the top of our list

Q: What is the current possible timeframe to release?
A: We will announce Dawn’s release date as soon as we have a final release candidate accepted so that we can commit to the date we post. But we feel we are very close to making that announcement

Q: Information about breast movement
A: Dawn has a set of basic breast sizes included in her base file. There a handful of other breast morphs that will be part of her add-on morph pack (to be included in her starter pack). Other breast morphs will likely be added in subsequent body morphs packs that we’ll be working on.

Q: Is Dawn compatible with InterPoser Pro?
A: We do not have a copy of InterPoser Pro yet, nor have we had any testing done in InterPoser Pro yet.

Q: Creature morphs and other morph packs?
A: Yes, we will be creating a very large range of full and partial body morphs as we consider these vital to the versatility and long-term success of a figure.

Q: Faceroom compatibility?
A: We have been in touch with Smith Micro regarding our figure, but have nothing to announce around this yet, tho we would love for this to happen.

Q: Will V4 textures work with Dawn?
A: Steve Corder has been experimenting to see if his Texture Convertor can be updated to allow this to happen. Nothing final on this yet.

Q: Will there be normal, everyday poses for Dawn?
A: Yes, we plan on there being a variety of poses, and surely others in the community will provide many more options. The base Dawn includes 10 poses, and the starter pack another 15.

Q: Will there be any painted on underwear?
A: NO!

Q: Carrara compatability?
A: We have a couple of community testers who are looking at Dawn to help us understand any issues around Carrara there may be. We would love for her to work well in Carrara also.

Q: Reduced resolution version for animation?
A: We do not have a reduced resolution version ready for release, but it is on our list to do.

Q: What are we allowed to use the Skin Map / Texture Resource Kit for?
A: This will have the normal licensing around it as other merchant resource kits do. If there are more questions around this, please post them again with specifics for us to address.

Q: Could we please have Gecko Toes in addition to Gecko fingers?
A: Sorry, Satira… this did not make the final cut for Dawn’s base offering. Perhaps later on? ;)

Q: Question about a possible skullcap for Dawn
A: We’ve gone back and forth on the need for a skullcap, but if there is lots of demand for one, we would be happy to create something quickly after her initial release. If this is important to you as a hair creator, please let us know.

Q: One request for the Ethnic morphs, could the please be named in the same way the V3 ones were? IE African Chinese etc
A: Yes, we will keep our morph naming as simple yet descriptive as possible.

Q: Will the bodysuit have a hood, booties and gloves either as part of or offered as a addon pack?
A: Bodysuit available upon release is a simple bodysuit with no gloves, socks, or hood.

Quote - It was mentioned earlier in the thread that she'd be Mimic compatable. I was wondering if A) She'll also work in Poser 10s Talk Designer and B) Will there be viseme files included? 

No viseme files/morphs included upon initial release, but we have committed to adding those as soon as possible after release.

I'm not sure about Talk Designer, but I will make sure our testers get me a response on that and get back to you.

Quote - When fingers bend- the knuckle are supposed to pop up. No doubt- this could be done with a JCM.  An ancillary question: could this also be done using a displacement map with its strength tied to the joint bend ?  A joint controlled texture? 

Good questions, and while we don't have all the partial body detail morphs like this created yet, we do plan on releasing a morph pack full of body sculpting morphs like this.

This is something we'd love to get community input on - what PBM's are the most used, most desired, most important for such a pack? Make a list and chime in with which ones you feel are most important so we can begin collecting data for which things we should spend the most time on.

Thanks for latest update, sounds good

Quote - "So you don't have to hand edit each morph from scratch. I'm sure adjustments can be made using the morph brush too."

Export a figure as an object. (Or import the original object from the geometry folder)

Then turn it back into a figure by borrowing it's own cr2 in the SetUp room.

All "mouth open" morphs (and others) are ruined because "projecting morphs" is less accurate than "copying morphs", even if it's the figure's original morphs. All other morphs are of course degraded, too, even if it's less obvious.

So I have to delete all the faulty morphs and copy them back in manually.

(Or edit a cr2 manually to point to the new geometry file)

But the "quick and easy" workflow is gone.

 

@shante:

Yes, I was referring to MorphManager. Still an indespensable tool after all those years, although I was surprised I had to dust it off it again because PP-2014 changed an essential feature of the SetUp room.

I googled the app but could not find it for the mac. sucks!

"Q: Will V4 textures work with Dawn?

A: Steve Corder has been experimenting to see if his Texture Convertor can be updated to allow this to happen. Nothing final on this yet."

To me, this is extremely important, and really I hope it can happen.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - It's been a few days....wonder what that surprise is...

I think someone discovered it earlier via Google.  It said there would be a Dawn render contest.

Could be.

 Nope. :)

Later on will be fine.   Can't have EVERYTHING we want on release, or Dawn would never get released!

And ... I'm really, really, really itching for Dawn to get released.  

Well, I'm actually itching because of a rash on my arm which is the result of an allergic reaction to something.  Either I again had an allergic reaction to antibiotics, or I have a sensitivity to latex, or it's an allergic reaction to something connected to having blood drawn (which again, could be the latex in the bandaid/adhesive).  Or ... it's all three or it's none of the above.

Whatever it is ... I am so tired of itching.

Quote - Q: Could we please have Gecko Toes in addition to Gecko fingers? A: Sorry, Satira… this did not make the final cut for Dawn’s base offering. Perhaps later on? ;)

Quote - Q: Will there be any painted on underwear?
A: NO!

Okay, this cracked me up! lol

Quote - One of the fears I have here is that some may be looking for Dawn to be the perfect figure when that is not possible, the best she can be good out of the box with the potential for artists to make her into thier perfect figure. That is not to say that there should not be good healthy feedback, particularly when the team are keen to listen, but at some point Dawn is going to have to be launched into the wild.  At that point I have no doubt she will be good but not perfect.

Yes, we are doing our best to manage all the feedback, determine what we feel are critical issues that we must address immediately vs those that can perhaps wait until after release. We are very close to having a final release candidate and we hope that there are no major issues found. But, we will know better after more testing.

Quote - Actually yes, you do need a dev rig, as you don't want to take over any materials, magnets, morphs etc. Everything also has to be zeroed correctly.

back on page 3, there is a email address for Steve, I would drop him a line along with details of what the developers are asking.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Thanks. I'll pass that along...

As mentioned, the news won't be the render contest that I found earlier in the week, as......

You need to have Dawn to do the render. Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

With the texture resource will we be able to do freebies, as long as we add a lot of our own work to it, eg.Tattoos, makeups etc.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

So..... There will be a Dawn starter pack!!!! Hmmmmm!!!

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Back in a while, have a webinar to get ready for.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Q: Question about a possible skullcap for Dawn

A: We’ve gone back and forth on the need for a skullcap, but if there is lots of demand for one, we would be happy to create something quickly after her initial release. If this is important to you as a hair creator, please let us know.

For an animator, dynamic hair is a necessity (other than for background figures), so I need a skullcap.

I can make one myself easily enough, but since it'd be based on your mesh, I wouldn't be able to redistribute it. If you were to provide a skullcap that one may redistribute, I would be quite happy to share all the dynamic hair I make.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - It's been a few days....wonder what that surprise is...

I think someone discovered it earlier via Google.  It said there would be a Dawn render contest.

Could be.

 Nope. :)

:D

Is it too late to add a Tear material zone? I requested it last week-but heard nothing.

Thanks!

 Eric

Looking forward to Dawn, downloading Zbrus R6 Mac right now so I can make my own face morphs....

Quote - Is it too late to add a Tear material zone? I requested it last week-but heard nothing.

Great question, let me find out and get back to you on this one, ok?

Quote -
Q: Is Dawn compatible with InterPoser Pro?
A: We do not have a copy of InterPoser Pro yet, nor have we had any testing done in InterPoser Pro yet.

Unfortunately, this is unlikely because of the weightmapping.

Fortunately there are likely to be other avenues into other apps: PoserFusion and Daz fbx export.

It would nevertheless be a shame about InterPoser Pro, as this is the only route that makes a decent job of transferring dynamic hair.

Perhaps it works after all (I believe it is dependent upon the rigging - M4V4 work fine, Rex'n'Roxie don't), and anyway, it'll be the first thing I try when I get my hands on the little lady.

For an animator, dynamic hair is a necessity (other than for background figures), so I need a skullcap.

Do you mean for Poser 9 and higher?  I didn't think dynamic hair required any kind of skull cap any longer.  The other week I was growing hair directly on a figure.  I am generally curious and not as well-versed in the Hair Room as I could be.

Quote - Do you mean for Poser 9 and higher?  I didn't think dynamic hair required any kind of skull cap any longer.  The other week I was growing hair directly on a figure.  I am generally curious and not as well-versed in the Hair Room as I could be.

It's no problem to grow hair directly on a head.

But then you can't redistribute it, or even share it amongst your own characters.

Skullcaps...

I would definitely want one that could be re-distributed.  I'm sure someone will make one if Dawn doesn't come with one.  Some suggestions...

If you model the skullcap tilted back 30 degrees, Poser's dynamic hair will naturally fall back, away from the face.  This can greatly simplify styling. 

The skullcap should fit just inside Dawn's head.  Poser ignores the first part of the hair strand for dynamic calculations, and having the skullcap inside the head makes the hair appear to be growing naturally out of the scalp.  You can use a painted skullcap as well, if you wish.

Dynamic hair skullcaps should be relatively low-res.  I think the original Poser 5 skullcaps were something like 2000 polys, and some skullcaps out there are two or three times that. That was way too much.  Poser choked trying to run the sims.

Poser 6, they went down to 200 polys per skullcap, and that worked a lot better.  There have been some changes in the Hair Room since then, and there should probably be more than 200 polys now.  But I'd guess skullcaps should still be less than 1000 polys.

I'd like a band of higher density mesh along the hairline: along the forehead and temples.  The part of the hair where you see the roots.  That way, you could have higher density hair where it counts.  Avoid that "doll hair" look without having to increase hair density all over the scalp.

Other ideas: groups to make it easy to style hair (though people disagree about how many and what groups are best), separate skullcaps for hair that will be styled vs. hair that will be all dynamic simulation, maybe the option of two or three skullcaps that can be used together, one inside the other (because you might need more hair density for some situations than others).

I would be willing to pay for an item like this. 

Yeah, what Marc said.  You could always grow dynamic hair on just about anything, even in Poser 5.  But then you can't save it to your library for future use on other characters, or share it as a for sale item or freebie. 

Quote - I'd like a band of higher density mesh along the hairline: along the forehead and temples.  The part of the hair where you see the roots.  That way, you could have higher density hair where it counts.  Avoid that "doll hair" look without having to increase hair density all over the scalp.

That's a bloody good idea!

Why didn't I think of that?

Right, I'm off to have another go at some hair...

Quote - "Q: Will V4 textures work with Dawn?
A: Steve Corder has been experimenting to see if his Texture Convertor can be updated to allow this to happen. Nothing final on this yet."

 

To me, this is extremely important, and really I hope it can happen.

I fervently hope this will be the case because so many of us have a considerable amount of $$ invested in V4 textures and other add-ons, and to be able to use them with Dawn would be a huge plus in terms of community support! Just my two cents' worth!

Quote - Q: Will there be any painted on underwear?

A: NO!

 

bwahaahaaaahaaa - So I take it that's a definitive answer ;-)

Quote - > Quote - "Q: Will V4 textures work with Dawn?

A: Steve Corder has been experimenting to see if his Texture Convertor can be updated to allow this to happen. Nothing final on this yet."

 

To me, this is extremely important, and really I hope it can happen.

I fervently hope this will be the case because so many of us have a considerable amount of $$ invested in V4 textures and other add-ons, and to be able to use them with Dawn would be a huge plus in terms of community support! Just my two cents' worth!

Just going to add my voice to this, I have a lot of textures for V4 that I would love to be able to use on Dwan 

Quote - **FROM NETHERWORKS...**In essence, Morphing Clothes would do the same thing as Copy Morphs so if Copy Morphs is allowed, there's no reason Morphing Clothes wouldn't be (or WW or XDresser, which also can do this).

My understanding was WW & XDresser was a direct transfer of morphs clothing-to-clothing (same exact mesh, # vertices & vertex order for original & target OBJ...just the vertices moved around). So in those cases, it would be precisely the same morphs.  This would be the same as using the old MorphManager to copy morphs.

However, I thought that Morphing Clothes was projection, since it goes from base figure to clothing (nearest vertex), so it would be similar but different. This would be the same as Poser's new copy morphs feature, right? In that case, I guess I'm not sure how you'd be breaking copyright since it's not precisely the same deltas, although I haven't tried that.

Just trying to get it all straight in my head...

???

I would love to know what is in the starter pack?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

If those programs have to re-group then the morphs have to projected in some way, even matching point-to-point because now all the groups are different, changing vertice count per group and vertex orders.

We wouldn't be able to re-distribute clothing that we didn't make in the first place, regardless of how the morphs get in there or even redistribute the morphs because all of that, via a tool or not, is using someone's else' work to produce something.

But yeah, sure, for your own personal, non-distributed usage, converting anything you like is completely fine.

Is that what we are talking about?  Just not sure where this is all going as a final result ;)

I'm also really hoping for the Texture Conversion ability from V4 to Dawn. I also have sunk a lot of money into V4 Merchant resources and several V3 resources as well. I have 'beta' versions of V4 textures that I have been doing shake downs (pose downs?) for possible V4 commercial characters. If I could convert my V4 resources over to Dawn that would be a tremendous boon!

Quote - QUOTING NETHERWORKS: If those programs have to re-group then the morphs have to projected in some way, even matching point-to-point because now all the groups are different, changing vertice count per group and vertex orders.

We wouldn't be able to re-distribute clothing that we didn't make in the first place, regardless of how the morphs get in there or even redistribute the morphs because all of that, via a tool or not, is using someone's else' work to produce something.

But yeah, sure, for your own personal, non-distributed usage, converting anything you like is completely fine.

Is that what we are talking about?  Just not sure where this is all going as a final result ;)

  I model clothing from scratch in Silo (for redistribution). Right now, I manually make morphs from scratch (in Poser or Zbrush) to make it fit the various base morphs of the figure. It would be nice to not have to manually make all those morphs (e.g. voluptuous, thin, etc.) from scratch.  It's a pain in the butt.

That's why I'm wondering if, let's say for Dawn, if I make an outfit for her, if I can use Morphing Clothes or the copy morph transfer tool in Poser, I won't have to manually make those morphs anymore for clothing I redistribute (perhaps this is a pipe dream).  

If I'm understanding you right, even if the deltas are totally different & there's no way that someone could get back to the original deltas once those deltas were copied over (using nearest vertex), it still would be breaking copyright of the original figure/morph set??

With that in mind, it seems like even making a fit morph by hand would also break copyright of the original figure/morph set, since you have to simulate the morph shape in essentially the same way as the automated programs do (finding a vertex on the figure and pushing the vertex of your clothing to be at a nearby location).

No, I don't think there's any issue in that case at all :)

If you make an original outfit and then use some tool (any tool) to move the original figure morphs to the outfit, I would think that is completely fine.  It's completely understood that you are adding morphs to your clothes to support and benefit the original figure.  I cannot see any case where any author would not permit this.

btw, I apologize for misunderstanding what you were talking about.

Quote - I would love to know what is in the starter pack?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Ditto! Would like to know what's in the pro? pack too.

I'm more interested in the price of the starter pack...

Quote - btw, I apologize for misunderstanding what you were talking about.

No worries. That makes a ton of sense. Thanks for the clarification. That will make my workflow a ton easier.

Quote - I'm more interested in the price of the starter pack...

Agreed - HivewireSteve/Chris: Can you give us a heads-up on how much $ we need to be keeping on hand for a Starter Pack or Pro Bundle? If we all know a price tag in advance, you might get more buyers right out of the gate. ;-)

Hmm...goes to dig in the couch cushions

Laurie

Quote - If you model the skullcap tilted back 30 degrees, Poser's dynamic hair will naturally fall back, away from the face.  This can greatly simplify styling. 

Can't you just tip the model's head back? Then you back in the morph.

Quote - The skullcap should fit just inside Dawn's head.  Poser ignores the first part of the hair strand for dynamic calculations, and having the skullcap inside the head makes the hair appear to be growing naturally out of the scalp.  You can use a painted skullcap as well, if you wish.

Poser doesn't ignore the root, you need to turn off root softness in the material room.

Dynamic hair skullcaps should be relatively low-res.  I think the original Poser 5 skullcaps were something like 2000 polys, and some skullcaps out there are two or three times that. That was way too much.  Poser choked trying to run the sims.

Poser 6, they went down to 200 polys per skullcap, and that worked a lot better.  There have been some changes in the Hair Room since then, and there should probably be more than 200 polys now.  But I'd guess skullcaps should still be less than 1000 polys.

I'd like a band of higher density mesh along the hairline: along the forehead and temples.  The part of the hair where you see the roots.  That way, you could have higher density hair where it counts.  Avoid that "doll hair" look without having to increase hair density all over the scalp.

Some setting options can make different resolutions look different when the setting is the same. Better option is to have a low and hi res caps (maybe a medium one too) and use the one that works with the style.

I do agree that more that 2000 poly is way too high. My high res caps are just over 1000 and that's plenty. When I can get away with it I use a lower one, but sometime you need the high res ones.

Quote - Other ideas: groups to make it easy to style hair (though people disagree about how many and what groups are best), separate skullcaps for hair that will be styled vs. hair that will be all dynamic simulation, maybe the option of two or three skullcaps that can be used together, one inside the other (because you might need more hair density for some situations than others).

I use different groups on practically every hair style. I want to have set groups that load with the cap, but it never seems to work that way. And it's not hard to make the groups.

Quote - ...I want to have set groups that load with the cap, but it never seems to work that way. And it's not hard to make the groups.

Try this: make the groups you want material zones instead. Then use the material zones as groups.

Laurie

Thanks laurie, but I meant that the groups I save are not the ones I need for the next style, so I have to delete and start fresh each time.

First, let me say I just read ALL 52 PAGES of this thread in ONE sitting (which included 2 meals, lol) so pardon me if this is lengthy and refers back to ancient posts... I'm tremendously excited by the amazing artists contributing to this.  I know this is going to be quality and I know that this very experienced team understands what it takes to get a new product/business off the ground.  You can't help feel reassured, knowing that this group of people have already seen and done this before.

There's one reason I think Dawn will be a smashing success -- the "kumbayah" factor.  Everyone can love her.  Granted, I've never been an either/or kind of person.  I use both Poser and DS.  I'm a pragmatist and I buy what I like from where I like.  And if Dawn appeals to that kind of pragmatist, she'll do well.  Also, A HUGE part of my decision to purchase an item comes from who the artist is.  I have vendors whom I trust completely, and those products go into my cart first.  I'm certain I'm not alone in this.  That's why I'm so happy with the big names here.

Quote - meatSim- For me, and maybe I need more time with it,  I dont really find that fitting room gives exactly production quality results.  Its pretty good but even if I get the fit perfect, the rig transfer still needs a lot of clean up for my standards ...

I have to agree with this. Though, that said, I've had many fewer bugs using the fitting room with WMV4 than standard Vicky.  I'm hopeful this means the fitting room will cooperate better "out of the box" with Dawn.  This said, I hope native Dawn content starts flying fast and furious once she's out of the gate.  Native content is always the best. > Quote - SickleYield - Though if Poser users didn't choose to make GNDA and Tyler their main figures, I don't see much chance of this bagging that spot.

Ah, but timing is everything.  The fitting room changes things, as does the realization that Genesis is really only ever going to work in Poser, except via DSON.  > Quote - Netherworks - So I have been fooling around with designing a Pose Adjustment Tool.     I also need to join a DS support group if I get into content creation that I can make sure is cross-platform.  Which I imagine as being such a long-term Poser users that's like a group of us standing around and shaking, chain-smoking cigarettes and drinking black coffee.. :P

YAY to pose translation.  One of the things I dislike MOST about using Genesis is the lack of pose diversity.  Having a pose-translation script is essential. And, really, you'll find DS is quite friendly once you use it more!  Just as in any support group, remember... "One day at a time." Lol. Oh, and could someone develop a product that gets MY breasts to lift 3" when I lift my arms into a T pose?  I have two words: Breastfed Twins. 'Nuff said.

I must second the STRONG desire for converting/utilizing other UV sets... The number of V4 textures I own is ridiculous, and I'd REALLY like to keep using them.  I'd also prefer something that isn't slow and cumbersome.  One or two clicks and not a year of waiting.

Also, totally OT,

Quote - Netherworks As in... one of the ideas of Dawn is to bridge the applications... like the Stargate bridges different worlds? :)

As someone who actually purchased a pair of Jack O'Neill's pants (yes, really, his pants, worn on-screen.  And did I mention I was at a real Stargate convention in Vancouver?) I love the "gateway between worlds" analogy of using Dawn in multiple platforms... Except, "A DAZ/Poser Wormhole" just sounds weird.  SHEW!  My brain hurts.  52 Pages.  Sheesh, people, don't you all have better things to do than post here?  (Says the woman who just read 52 pages of posts...)

Carry on!!