Why does Poser customers like Conforming Cloths better then Dynamic Cloths ?

Perhaps they are lazy?

I like Dynamic better, but Conforming is quicker and more predictable.  Dynamic cloth would be way better if only it were able to shrink.  There's no such dial in the Poser cloth room.  The only way to get something to shrink is to start your figure off smaller than the clothes and grow her into it through animating the Scale dial.

Calculations are slow as well.  It would be amazing if it could harness the power of the GPU to calculate cloth, but at the moment I don't think it even harnesses all the CPU cores (although I'm not sure).

I'll use conforming when I don't have a dynamic.  Perfer it, by a lot.

Doric

Easier..Ya I''m one of the lazy ones...I have used dynamic but got a little frustraed..

One-word answer:  Animation.  Conforming clothes require attention only in the first frame, to adjust out pokethroughs or other oddities.   After that, you can move the figure and the clothes will still look good.

Dynamic clothes require constant use of the cloth room.

I prefer dynamic.

I prefer dynamic whenever possible. But the calculations can be slow.

If I try to remember what it was like as a newbie, I'd guess that

1. once you have made it through the trial of trying to figure out which 3d content actually works in Poser and got some stuff properly installed,

2. then learned enough to realize the steps you have to take to make your typical clothing item fit a figure it wasn't designed for,

3. and finally understood that even if you have an item of clothing made specifically for the figure you want to render, it may still not include your favorite morphs...

You're too tired and frustrated to bother learning yet another seemingly complicated thing -- even though it eliminates many of the other issues you struggled with.

And then once you're on the conforming clothing track, you get caught up in it.

It seems that it's almost always people who have been using Poser for a while who "discover" dynamic clothing.

I don't believe it!!!!

I agree with moriador on something!!!!!!!!!!

Well stated!

I don't think most users are "lazy." I think it's that they have never been able to puzzle out the cloth room. Once I watched a good tutorial about it, it seemed easy as pie, and I started using it.

I'm also one of those people who likes hybrid clothing... make the top conforming and touch up the sleeves with the morph brush so they don't "float", but make the bottom dynamic so it drapes correctly on the hips and legs (gender not important here!)

one issues is how long it takes poser to run a symo.  Its agonizingly long >.<

But if you use MD, you can make it, drape it, export it and BAM in less time(sometimes) then it takes poser to go "drape cloth".

If poser was to have better dynamics I am sure more people would be using it.

Sorry all, I absolutely hate dynamic clothing. I don't animate. I do still images and to have to run the sim animation again each time I load up the pz3 while I'm working on getting the final image is just TOO much of a pain. I did it once using a tutorial when I was using Poser 8 just to say to myself that I'd at least done it, and I decided I wasn't going to go there again. I'm conforming clothing all the way. The only instance where I don't like conforming is when it comes to hair because I want and sometimes need to fit a hair model to a male rather than a female.

As a Poser Newbie I love dynamic cloth and the potential once I get through all the tutorials but I've found I've had to adjust my workflow.

With conforming you can just put on the cloth and mess around with poses but with dynamic, it's the other way around. 

So with dynamic cloth I work out my pose first, adjust places where it will interfere with cloth and save the pose. Zero the character and then start having fun.

It took a bit of time but I've also created sets of dynamic cloth poses so when inspiration hits I can just go for it.

. . . and with all the terrific improvements in the core Poser program in recent years conforming clothing is easy to fix in almost every situation.  I have no need of dynamic clothing.  Too inefficient.

I passed on using dynamic clothing for years. Now? I use it a great deal and more often than conforming clothing. I love it!!

Quote - One-word answer:  Animation.  Conforming clothes require attention only in the first frame, to adjust out pokethroughs or other oddities.   After that, you can move the figure and the clothes will still look good.

Dynamic clothes require constant use of the cloth room.

Thank you Yes Animation!

I love that I can take any object into poser and turn it into dynamic cloth and I am hoping the cloth room gets more attention in the future versions of Poser. 

Conforming clothes are quick and easy to use but dynamic clothes more versatile and realistic and more fun for me.

So it's more or less why bother with dynamics for a still.I guess.

Guess it depends on what ya started with also.
I started with dynamics ,conforming cloths drive me insane.
I just won't use them.

When I say any object I mean my own objects. The market place may not be a good indication of how many people use dynamic cloth though. I myself very seldom buy dynamic cloth. I have seen quite a few people mention marvellous designer which also seems to lend itself well to dynamic cloth.

Quote - So it's more or less why bother with dynamics for a still.I guess.

Guess it depends on what ya started with also.
I started with dynamics ,conforming cloths drive me insane.
I just won't use them.

i would say dynamic clothes are great for stills. I am not an animator but I would think conforming cloth would be easier for animators.

Quote - > Quote - So it's more or less why bother with dynamics for a still.I guess.

Guess it depends on what ya started with also.
I started with dynamics ,conforming cloths drive me insane.
I just won't use them.

i would say dynamic clothes are great for stills. I am not an animator but I would think conforming cloth would be easier for animators.

real tight cloths ya might but You can't use lose conforming cloths for animations.
say a conforming skirt ya would never get it to move right.

Conforming is still preferred, for me. Dynamic is fiddly if there is an unnoticed error and the simulation fails - maddening to figure out why what which blah.

Quote - one issues is how long it takes poser to run a symo.  Its agonizingly long >.<

 

But if you use MD, you can make it, drape it, export it and BAM in less time(sometimes) then it takes poser to go "drape cloth".

 

If poser was to have better dynamics I am sure more people would be using it.

I prefer dynamic. But I don't use the Poser cloth room so I would never buy Poser dynamic cloth for example.

I had MD a long time before I had Poser so I've never had any need to even bother with the Cloth Room.

I like dynamic cloth with MD because I can make whatever I like, adjust the cloth however I like and the draping is so much better than struggling with trying to get conforming clothes to look convincing when a figure is sitting down etc. And there is no horrible stretching of textures.

I do use conforming clothing for something with a lot of details which would be a nightmare to try and create a pattern, or something solid like armour. Mainly because I don't have the skills to do this in MD, or the time to learn.

Frankly, I can  go either way. I don't do animations and with tight fitting clothes it doesn't really matter. But for clothes that are flowing like skirts, gowns and capes. It NEEDS to be dynamic. Particularly if you're showing a woman sitting down in a dress or skirt. There just aren't that many, if any, conforming skirts and dresses that a figure can sit in and look realistic.

Poser's cloth room still is a patch-on to the engine that is based on posing and it is quite tedious to use. The move to Bullet Physics unfortunately did not bring a better interface.

Cloth room results are not really predictable and cannot be influenced other than by re-starting the simulation.

Suggestions for improvement/Poser 2016:

• Define properties in weft and warp (U and V )direction separately, with limits.
• Make sure that physical parameters of clothing are properly stored somewhere with the clothing.
• Make sure modeled folds are recognized.
• Make sure storage format includes pre-tension info in the clothing in the stored shape (= stretch of facet edges times stiffness) from an 'unstrained' morph or from the UV map. (yes, you will need to say how many poser units the 0-1 range of UV is supposed to be)
• Provide a touchup tool (not morph!), but 'pushing' or 'pulling' the clothing.

Marvelous Designer is a different price league, but I hope Poser developers take a very good look at the approach they take (or better, liaise with them and talk them into providing an add-on).

then:

• problems with conforming clothing become more apparent when the pose used differs more form the zero pose. Solution would be to provide a 'redefine this position as zero' function for figures. Clothing can then be conformed in the new zero shape and user can combine the good flow of dynamic clothing with the late tuning possibilities offered by conforming clothing.

$0.05

 Absolutely!

Very difficult to get conforming cloth to do this!

Quote - Sorry all, I absolutely hate dynamic clothing. I don't animate. I do still images and to have to run the sim animation again each time I load up the pz3 while I'm working on getting the final image is just TOO much of a pain. I did it once using a tutorial when I was using Poser 8 just to say to myself that I'd at least done it, and I decided I wasn't going to go there again. I'm conforming clothing all the way. The only instance where I don't like conforming is when it comes to hair because I want and sometimes need to fit a hair model to a male rather than a female.

You only need to run the sim again if you change the pose. When you load the scene, it reverts back to frame 1, so you do have to advance the frame slider to the final frame of your simulation.

Occasionally sims get corrupted or something and they explode. To prevent that, once you have your pose and your sim done, save the sim as a morph to a new copy of the cloth. Then you can load that character pose with that clothing and dial in the morph whenever you want.

If you're in the habit of making last minute pose changes, then, yeah. You have to redo the sim. But after a while you get used to posing first and simming after.

You also get to learn which content creators make clothes that sim fast and easy, and which make real doozies. Almost all of the paid content I've used is superb in that respect, though.

I personally find twisting 73 different dials on a bunch of different body parts to adjust conforming clothing far, far more maddening than the cloth room. I find having to use Morphing Clothes to fit clothes that don't have the morphs I'm using in them far more time consuming than running a quick and easy sim. And an awful lot of conforming clothes look like PVC tubes with a fabric pattern painted on them. M4 especially looks like he's wearing balloons in his shoulders. And both and V4 often have similar balloons in the knees. All those joint issues vanish with dynamic clothing.

Yes, the cloth room could be improved. Most noticeably by letting all my cores participate, among other things. But all in all, it's workable, and the results are a lot more convincing for most types of ordinary clothing.

What a lot of peole don't know is that you can save a pose in the cloth room as a morph in a dynamic cloth item. I have done that, then saved the dynamic cloth to the library. Usually it's a sitting pose of somekind, like with her legs crossed.

When Poser's cloth room starts working a LOT MORE like Marvelous Designer I might start using it.  Until then, I'll just whip together my own cloths in Marv, importing exporting to poser as needed for perfect results.

will the same dynamic dress work with any mesh Roxie,V6 etc etc.

or do you half to customise them for a certain character ?

you don't rig dynamic dresses in Poser, right ?

I like what dynamic clothes can do but it is a lot of work for little return most times. And forget having more than one dynamic item on a figure. That is ro much of a pain to deal with. Generally, I will go for conforming just because I don't have hours to deal with dynamic.

Dynamic just seems unnecessarily complicated. I am still hoping for a hybrid solution in a future Poser version.

I.e. use conforming and then do a 1 or 0 click dynamic sim on the posed cloth: Better draping and no more poke-through.

I've had good luck with simple scaling so that it covers everything at zero pose.

I try to run dresses and skirts through a sim to get them to fall properly without having to mess endlessly with tweaking dials.  Some skirts are just about impossible to fit to a pose as soon as you move a thigh any more than a bit.  Add a little wind, and it can really add that something extra to a still scene.

I just wish I had the knowledge to fix problems like the little bit that goes shooting off into space on the skirt I'm trying to sim right now.

Quote - I just wish I had the knowledge to fix problems like the little bit that goes shooting off into space on the skirt I'm trying to sim right now.

Have you added it to the soft decorated group? That works most of the time for me.

Just adding, when I started to try to use the cloth room, I thought it was unstable, there were a lot of times when it would just hang, then crash.  Don't ask me what I'm doing differently, but after a while, that didn't happen anymore.  I've had several pieces of dynamic cloth active at the same time, start the sim, go pour myself another coffee, it's usually done when I sit down again.  There is a learning curve, but I couldn't explain what I'm doing now that I wasn't before, or vise versa.

Doric

Quote - Just adding, when I started to try to use the cloth room, I thought it was unstable, there were a lot of times when it would just hang, then crash.  Don't ask me what I'm doing differently, but after a while, that didn't happen anymore.  I've had several pieces of dynamic cloth active at the same time, start the sim, go pour myself another coffee, it's usually done when I sit down again.  There is a learning curve, but I couldn't explain what I'm doing now that I wasn't before, or vise versa.

Doric

Exactly. At some point, after a certain amount of headache, it just seems to start working.

My biggest problems have been with converting conforming clothing to dynamic. But that's not a fault with the cloth room. Some things just aren't appropriate for it, and I don't have the particular skillset to fix those that create errors. But an amazing number of crappy looking conforming outfits with dreadful rigging (balloon shoulders and knees, for instance) turn into things of beauty when they're converted and simmed.

Quote - will the same dynamic dress work with any mesh Roxie,V6 etc etc.

or do you half to customise them for a certain character ?

you don't rig dynamic dresses in Poser, right ?

They will work, but just like real life clothes they may not fit. Poses can be tweaked to 'pick up' the clothing, but any information about stretch is lost.

Ideally dynamic clothing is provided as un- or minimal-stretched and the figure 'grown' into it. Dynamic clothing that fits from the outset is like worn-out real life clothing. Scaling can do only just a minimum. If the geometry is made to span Victoria's bust, it will be a sorry rag hanging around a figure with more modest curves.

And, no, you do not rig dynamic clothing, but it must be structurally intact.

Quote - Just adding, when I started to try to use the cloth room, I thought it was unstable, there were a lot of times when it would just hang, then crash.  Don't ask me what I'm doing differently, but after a while, that didn't happen anymore.  I've had several pieces of dynamic cloth active at the same time, start the sim, go pour myself another coffee, it's usually done when I sit down again.  There is a learning curve, but I couldn't explain what I'm doing now that I wasn't before, or vise versa.

Doric

Heh, actually that sounds a lot like what happened to me when I first started using Wardrobe Wizard. WW even seems faster now too. I rarely have anything that takes longer than five minutes tops to convert. There were times when I had  a couple of hours to wait.

Thanks FVerbaas I just ment rigs n groups and all.
the Dress fitting to diffrent characters.I know is for both dynamic & conforming.

If ya want a hybrid hope ya get it but I want full 100% hair,cloths dynamics also.
Like the Main App's have.
DAZ Sudio has a hybrid with rigs and all ,don't think it's used a lot.

It would be nice if conforming cloths venders said if it works as dynamics.

Quote - When Poser's cloth room starts working a LOT MORE like Marvelous Designer I might start using it.  Until then, I'll just whip together my own cloths in Marv, importing exporting to poser as needed for perfect results.

BINGO! if poser cloth symo was like MD, you would never get me out of poser.

Quote - > Quote - I just wish I had the knowledge to fix problems like the little bit that goes shooting off into space on the skirt I'm trying to sim right now.

Have you added it to the soft decorated group? That works most of the time for me.

I've tried adding it to each group, and exporting and re-importing as an object.  That one spot is just determined to go shooting off to try to discover the molton core of earth.

So many poses in Poser cause the underlying figure to intersect itself. As soon as it does that, no symulation is going to work right in that area. Something as simple as having a character put its arms down to its sides will blow up the sym in the as soon as the upper arms intersect the figure's sides.

This is why the most common form of Dynamic clothing is the sleeveless dress.

I dont know how the cloth room works (or any of the other rooms ._. ), conforming clothes are fine for me.

Quote - So many poses in Poser cause the underlying figure to intersect itself. As soon as it does that, no symulation is going to work right in that area. Something as simple as having a character put its arms down to its sides will blow up the sym in the as soon as the upper arms intersect the figure's sides.

This is why the most common form of Dynamic clothing is the sleeveless dress.

One easy way to get around that is to use the inbetween frames (between the zero and final pose) to guide the arms and legs so they do not intersect with the body. 

Before you start the sim just scrub through the frames and use the dial to move the arms and/or legs. Since the final pose is keyframed for those bodyparts, the final pose will be the same

Quote - So many poses in Poser cause the underlying figure to intersect itself. As soon as it does that, no symulation is going to work right in that area. Something as simple as having a character put its arms down to its sides will blow up the sym in the as soon as the upper arms intersect the figure's sides.

This is why the most common form of Dynamic clothing is the sleeveless dress.

yup. You get the arm going through the torso and it completely FUBAR's the symo.

Take your animation/symo frame by frame to check this before you run the actual symo. This way if you see am arm going through the body or legs tangling with each other before they get to final position, you can correct it before the headache of cloth going nuts or the program hanging up.

Quote - > Quote - So many poses in Poser cause the underlying figure to intersect itself. As soon as it does that, no symulation is going to work right in that area. Something as simple as having a character put its arms down to its sides will blow up the sym in the as soon as the upper arms intersect the figure's sides.

This is why the most common form of Dynamic clothing is the sleeveless dress.

yup. You get the arm going through the torso and it completely FUBAR's the symo.

Take your animation/symo frame by frame to check this before you run the actual symo. This way if you see am arm going through the body or legs tangling with each other before they get to final position, you can correct it before the headache of cloth going nuts or the program hanging up.

Then fix the pose. It's not that hard to do.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - So many poses in Poser cause the underlying figure to intersect itself. As soon as it does that, no symulation is going to work right in that area. Something as simple as having a character put its arms down to its sides will blow up the sym in the as soon as the upper arms intersect the figure's sides.

This is why the most common form of Dynamic clothing is the sleeveless dress.

yup. You get the arm going through the torso and it completely FUBAR's the symo.

Take your animation/symo frame by frame to check this before you run the actual symo. This way if you see am arm going through the body or legs tangling with each other before they get to final position, you can correct it before the headache of cloth going nuts or the program hanging up.

Then fix the pose. It's not that hard to do.

kind of what I said.....

I have always liked dynamic cloth props for the realism of draping over the figure. However, I find that many of the conforming cloth props in my Runtime look far more like real clothes. They have pockets, piping, seams and other features that make the figures look like they're wearing complete garments, not just cloth cut-outs.

Because I do animation, I've discovered that some conforming cloth props hybridize quite nicely. You can see this in a garment from 3D Age that I used in the black and white portions of THIS video, which you will have to copy and paste to see:

(WARNING, contains a book promotion at the end. Don't look if that offends you!)

http://youtu.be/PV3k-s_sg1Q

Sometimes, conforming clothes just won't work for animations. In my current project, I'm contrasting a "fantasy girl" (the younger, "not so little" sister of the girl in the above video) with a "practical girl" in the mind of one of my male characters. (She's in the last snippet I've attached to this message.) The video below is a draft (lots of problems, yet!) that illustrates how complex and dynamic the cloth room output can be. This is the ONE dress I managed to fit on this figure that fit the need for sensuality, without having her fall out of it when she bends to pick up the rose. (It's the Electra Dress by SAV)  But if you look at her abdomen (I realize it's not her most interesting feature . . . ), you'll see the folds of the dynamic cloth prop sliding beneath underlying layers. This sort of thing drives me CRAZY!

http://youtu.be/JdRxwZ3VG6k

In this one, there are a lot of weird things going on, though most people won't notice. This is the Josephine dress by Tipol:

http://youtu.be/Ouxjp12_C2w

Some things simply can't be done with conforming cloth. It would be really nice if SM did a cloth room overhaul for the next version of Poser.

And then, there's hair . . .

anupaum You left out the warning music may cause drowsiness or sleep ;)
Need to wake up. Metallica

Cool Video's some of the best I've seen made with Poser.
And oh ya Hair.

Quote - anupaum You left out the warning music may cause drowsiness or sleep ;)
Need to wake up. Metallica

Cool Video's some of the best I've seen made with Poser.
And oh ya Hair.

RK, Music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGX1XQaLQ0M

Metallica, maybe describes the material of their ears.

Anupaum, nice work, good, tasteful choice of audio.

Doric.