RorrKonns quote
V4 has such a ridicules high polycount sculpting tools are advisable for original morphs.
Roxie ,Genesis 1,2  ya don't need sculpting tools for original morphs.

Male_M3dias quote
With lower poly meshes, actually you do need sculpting tools.
Especially if you're wanting to create detail with either normal or displacement maps.

I was just talking about **original morphs
**Since Roxie ,Genesis 1,2 details. belly button,nipples,gen's ,eye lashes ,nails etc etc are modeled in to the mesh.
there not a low polycount mesh ,there Sub Divided meshes.

Details are not modeled in to low polycount game meshes.

You'll  have to explain it better then. Original or not, they both really need sculpting tools, if nothing else to flesh out the base shape. Having a sculpting tool actually makes the lower poly meshes easier to create.

I'm not talking about making a character from scratch.I'm Just talking about Roxie ,Genisis 1 ,2 original morphs n only original morphs
You can make original morphs for Roxie ,Genisis 1 ,2  buy selecting vertices in a modeling app and moving vertices.

V4's polycount is to high for vertices moving to be practical.
ya really need sculpting tools to make V4 original morphs.

That"s all French to me lol, never done any sculpting.  Don't have a Wacon of any kind except this silly little thing on the laptop (hmm... gonna grab my smart phone stylus from work and see if it works on the laptop, pretty curious).  And thanks for the info RorrKonn!  Maybe if you do a sample image of doing something with Roxie & G2 without a tool and show us?

Anyways, @Greybro, the $18.99 price is on the Reese sisters, we're talking about Tina Perez.  She's a little high too, but it was for the tan lines and the added (but rejected as per quality) gen hairs (again, before the pedo subject comes up, this was intended to be a 21 yr old character).  It's quite too late to change the price on Reese sisters, her sales aren't too good, but not too bad either.  But I've been working on something (a surprise, something that's never seen on the Marketplace) to add for Tina Perez to make her more worth the $16.99 price, also am gonna do something about the tattoos.

...wolfie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BILitPXem6s

there just selecting part of the mesh .no sculpting 

and then

youtube is full of zbrush sculpting

Wow, that was quite interesting, watched the whole thing.

Actually you're doing the same thing whether your working with a high or low poly mesh, so I'm going to have to disagree. You can use the same exact tools regardless of the poly counts. You are still sculpting.

I'm pretty illiterate in this area, but maybe people define "tools" differently, some say only a chisel (and other real life sculpturing tools) are the only tools, some say that the "re-sizing" (and other such) tool is a tool too.  I'm not confused as far as the poly count is, I know what that is, and it makes sense what you're saying (no matter the poly count), but for being illiterate in sculpturing programs, I'm confused what RorrKonn is saying.

**Male_M3dia
** do you even know what box modeling is ?
have you ever boxed modeled any thing ?
do you even own a box modeling app ?
have you ever tried to morph V4 using box modeling tools ?

jamminwolf 
you have box modeling tools to model meshes with.
you can use box modeling tools to morph a mesh.
a mesh is any 3D object.

then you have sculpting tools.

there two different ways of making and morphing meshes.

time stamp 1:50 he's using box modeling tools to morph V4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNazgfhm14M

maybe not the best example but ya can see her polycount is around 20,000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BILitPXem6s
 V4 polycount is around 60,000 if ya tried to morph V4 with box modeling tools likePaweł Łyczkowski did with the MakeHuman basemesh .
the extra 40,000 polygones would cause you a lot of grief.
ya have some room to move on a 20,000 polycount character .
there's no moving room on a 60.000 polycount character.

You can use the same exact tools for low and high poly meshes. The selection area that you use would be the only difference. You are still sculpting on both. I think you trying to make a distinction where there is none.

Ok, sculpturing for me comes later when I start messing around, for now...

I haven't started with promos just yet, I wanted to touch base with a few subjects before I started.

First, the lip comments have been bothering me, especially the "sad" or too pouty look, and the fact that Tina did look a bit like Lucy Zepp (morphs), especially the lips.  So I went to phrase 1 DS scene with Ultra Face Morphs (yes, I save these progressive scenes so I can go back if needed), and played around with the UFM as well as Morph++ dials for the lip.

The cost, instead of reducing the price and having to refund everyone that bought her, which would be a lot of head ache, I decided to add a new option that you almost never see in the market, as well as add 1 more tan line, some poses, and edit the tattoos.  I finished the new option (but I'm not gonna say for fear of other vendors stealing this idea) and haven't got to the others yet.

For now, I'm gonna load an old and new image so that you can see the changes in her lips, also I think this hair is best for close up IBL images. 1st image is the old lips, 2nd image is the new, she don't look too sad now lol.

Let me know what you think!

...wolfie

Hey guys,

I was just wondering why my sales of the latest two character products, Tina Perez by me & Temptest3d http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/tina-perez-for-v4-s4/109408/ and Reese Sisters by me & P3Design http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/reese-sisters/103863/ are suddenly down.  

I'm going to apologize in advance here for my honesty because while tact isn't my strong point, hurting your feelings isn't my idea of a good time either. 

1. Tina's random, arbitrary features draw attention to themselves individually rather than contributing to a character design as a whole and the overall effect is jarring… except on the goth, where the makeup manages to play to and compensate for most of it. Had the character been marketed exclusively wearing that makeup, I have a feeling she would have sold much better, and she wouldn't have been the first V4 character to pull off that trick. If a texture doesn't flatter your character, don't render them in it and reconsider why you'd bundle it with the character.
2. Lack of any nude renders. Unless the subject's a minor, it's a reasonable requirement to show complete textures and how breasts/buttocks are sculpted. Tight clothing and/or descriptives are not a substitute. I won't buy a character without nude renders because I assume the vendor's not taking it seriously.
3. Too many expressionless, staring faces. Besides looking creepy, they don't advertise the expressive range your characters have. You're a character designer, show character. Smile. Cry. Snarl. 
4. Surnames on characters. I dislike this and wonder how alone I am in that regard. Some things should be left to your customers' imaginations. 
5. Trailer trash outfits on characters standing next to their 13 year old sister. As of now all your promotional renders take place in Ohio in the month of October, and no one 13 years old gets to wear adult textures with heavy cosmetics on them. No shirts with boob holes you could pass a Schnauzer through.
6. Quantity over quality. So many morphs for the Reese sisters that they can't be squeezed into the renders, superfluous tramp stamp tattoo MATs… I have never had a character purchase decision be tipped by how many textures, MATs or alternate morphs came with it.  

Invest time in presentation and more focused, intentional character design. If your free time requires you to choose between the two, Renderosity has a service to do your product presentation for you.

Lol... duanemoody, did you even go through this thread to see all the feedbacks and the progress I'm making? Not to mention 2 times I requested no more critics, all the help has already sent me doing much better.  One thing though, trailer trash tattoos next to a 13 year old? Eh? We're talking about Tina Perez here, but the Reese sisters were brought up a couple times and none have tattoos. TIna doesn't have a sister.

Nudity... Renderosity didn't allow her nude cause she doesn't have huge breasts, nothing else contributes to her being viewed as young.  Surname. .. they're actually last names, unique names frome the rest and it gives me the ability to select more names for future characters.  This is the first time I've ever had anyone say they didn't like them, in fact I had quite a few compliments, so your point in this is mooted. 

 Goth... I don't really care for Goth but do sometimes include them for customers who want it. Quantity over quality, I spend a lot of time with my characters,  and try my best, the others spit out 2 or three at a month copy/pasting a lot of things & most of there characters look the same.  Mine don't...

i'm learning more though, so I ask you all, QUIT BEATING ME UP! Thanks! 

...wolfie 

Ill chime in again ;0) I think the last renders you have posted are a huge improvement in terms of lighting, posing, and clothing choices.  Her lips dont appear as though they have been changed all that much.   I can see what you are going for Wolfie, but her top lip is pulled out still in a very strange way- reminiscent of a duck bill.  You may have not gotten to it yet.. but her eye situation should be addressed too.  Maybe a less extreme morph around her eyelid, or a heavy duty eyelash map to help solve the problem.  You are making great progress..( Im glad you are not only asking for crits and accepting them, but you are also using all this valuable information in front of us..keep your chin up and keep going! I think there are a lot of people who could learn from this thread :0)

For now, I'm gonna load an old and new image so that you can see the changes in her lips, also I think this hair is best for close up IBL images. 1st image is the old lips, 2nd image is the new, she don't look too sad now lol.

It's better but the main problem is that the lips still look too much like a duck bill. Generally you can have a wide mouth or you can have pouty lips but it's not common to see both at the same time so it looks kinda odd. The ears also need a fair bit of work because the inner whorl is looking really big and out of place.

Ok, new, updated  critics, I'll accept that. Just don't like the same old stuff repeated when I addressed them, especially when my latest images show them.  Sick of the trailer trash comments too.

All this time I thought you guys were talking about another area on her lips, I did push them  both back some though, as well as edited the sides a little straighter.  Well, you can say I'm attracted to "duck bill" type lips (which my cousin Tina has), but I'll work on that too.

will work on the eyes too, but would like to know specifically what you're talking about. 

Also, what do you guys think if I made her breasts bigger and gave her more fitness, and widen her hips more? Adult? Or will I still be a fool thinking i'm not discriminated?  She's a little petite and average height like most cute adult womeN are, what can I say?

For now, I'm gonna load an old and new image so that you can see the changes in her lips, also I think this hair is best for close up IBL images. 1st image is the old lips, 2nd image is the new, she don't look too sad now lol.

It's better but the main problem is that the lips still look too much like a duck bill. Generally you can have a wide mouth or you can have pouty lips but it's not common to see both at the same time so it looks kinda odd. The ears also need a fair bit of work because the inner whorl is looking really big and out of place.

Folks, seriously, he gets it.  Stop now, please.  He's asked the critiques to stop page back. ENOUGH.

jamminwolf had the courage (and it takes a LOT of courage) to ask.  Now, please honor his request to stop.

Folks, seriously, he gets it.  Stop now, please.  He's asked the critiques to stop page back. ENOUGH.

jamminwolf had the courage (and it takes a LOT of courage) to ask.  Now, please honor his request to stop.

lol thanks friend! straightenes head bandage & eye patch with good arm

For now, I'm gonna load an old and new image so that you can see the changes in her lips, also I think this hair is best for close up IBL images. 1st image is the old lips, 2nd image is the new, she don't look too sad now lol.

It's better but the main problem is that the lips still look too much like a duck bill. Generally you can have a wide mouth or you can have pouty lips but it's not common to see both at the same time so it looks kinda odd. The ears also need a fair bit of work because the inner whorl is looking really big and out of place.

Folks, seriously, he gets it.  Stop now, please.  He's asked the critiques to stop page back. ENOUGH.

jamminwolf had the courage (and it takes a LOT of courage) to ask.  Now, please honor his request to stop.

I'll second that, not only did he have the guts to ask he is also listening and trying to take a lot of comment on board.  The fact that latest renders are very much improved shows, to his credit, he is working hard and trying to learn.  He knows he has more to do and no figure will ever be perfect, but you have to stop somewhere and by keep adding to the list means we are, to a degree, moving the goal posts. 

i think the issue with the eyes is, first, you have the eyefolds down so low that they make an unnatural crease at the inner eye corner, and second, the outer edge droop is probably slightly over exaggerated. I get the duck lip thing, but i would say once again, that the problem isn't the type exactly, as much as the degree of exaggeration.  i think the new renders are a big improvement, would just say you need to darken up the lashes. make sure the gamma is set to one on the trans map, and maybe a touch of displacement.

other than that, if i was you, i would move on. take all the comments good and bad, look hard at your work, turn your pictures upside down,& flip them horizontally, literally, and see if things still look natural, then move on to the next project. this might not have been the success you wanted it to be, but don't get trapped into endlessly trying to fix it. make a new one, start from scratch. i have done things i thought looked amazing, then seen them 6 months later and been horrified. not saying that is the case here, but am saying you will get more out of moving foward than getting stuck on "fixing" what you have already done. you asked earlier about rendering hair, am sure there are many far better suited to give advice but a very slight amount of translucence, set at the colour of the hair your rendering(ie light browns/yellows for blonde etc) can make the heavily contrasted shadows much less, and less fake looking. i use about .05 on the translucence value. if you overdo it it looks bad.

anyway, good luck.

I think some of you need to actually read the threads you're white knighting in. He specifically asked for feedback on those renders which is why I bothered posting it. See:

For now, I'm gonna load an old and new image so that you can see the changes in her lips, also I think this hair is best for close up IBL images. 1st image is the old lips, 2nd image is the new, she don't look too sad now lol.

Let me know what you think!

And if he didn't like my suggestions, i'm sure he'll tell me himself.

Not to mention 2 times I requested no more critics, all the help has already sent me doing much better.  

I apologize for not reading all the comments beforehand, I should have. I look forward to your future efforts and thanks for taking the onslaught well. 

I think some of you need to actually read the threads you're white knighting in. He specifically asked for feedback on those renders which is why I bothered posting it. 

I've been here since 2000. The Poser community shares deviantArt's tendency to want to praise peoples' efforts even though the demographic is older and we predate dA by at least 5 years. It's easy to drop a like on something just like it's easy to give social media snark; the middle ground is the one that makes people uneasy because it has to be tempered.  The scene has changed since V4 came out and the standard for saleable characters was "stands out" and/or "recognizably the work of X." We're more aware of what can be done with the mesh thanks to celebrity likenesses from fygomatic, MRL, MDD, Sabby and others – all of whom do a lot of their work in third party mesh editors. Bodies are dialed, but heads are sculpted. This isn't to say you can't do impressive work with only dials: the Snooki lookalike Angela has no custom deltas at all, but LiquidRust pushed those dials to the limits and overdialed some of the mouth expression dials to the point that the edges of the mouth crack a bit from what it took to make her signature pout. 

Textures are expected to show photographic levels of detail variation where a few moles and cosmetics sufficed before. Bump and displacement mapping, hi-res eyebrows…

And then you still have to contend with a market that might just prefer everything be Genesis/G2 because they grew up on a product that cost them nothing to install. 

It's an interesting time.

Ok, sculpturing for me comes later when I start messing around, for now...

I haven't started with promos just yet, I wanted to touch base with a few subjects before I started.

First, the lip comments have been bothering me, especially the "sad" or too pouty look, and the fact that Tina did look a bit like Lucy Zepp (morphs), especially the lips.  So I went to phrase 1 DS scene with Ultra Face Morphs (yes, I save these progressive scenes so I can go back if needed), and played around with the UFM as well as Morph++ dials for the lip.

The cost, instead of reducing the price and having to refund everyone that bought her, which would be a lot of head ache, I decided to add a new option that you almost never see in the market, as well as add 1 more tan line, some poses, and edit the tattoos.  I finished the new option (but I'm not gonna say for fear of other vendors stealing this idea) and haven't got to the others yet.

For now, I'm gonna load an old and new image so that you can see the changes in her lips, also I think this hair is best for close up IBL images. 1st image is the old lips, 2nd image is the new, she don't look too sad now lol.

Let me know what you think!

...wolfie

No, that is still not good enough, no offense but it's horrible and makes me want to punch a hole in the wall.  Show me your god damn reference image.  It looks like a face model that has been created without a reference image.  If you want to join the big leagues, you need to step it up ten fold.
I took the liberty of finding you a reference image [edited for personal attacks], the following is similar to what you're going for.

Your current face model is in stage 1, you need to go to stage 2, stage 3, then finally stage 4. 

I don't understand what you are trying to do with those eyes, can you show us an example of someone with eyes the way you designed? 

You need to step it up and stop making subtle changes.  Don't be afraid to rip something apart and recreate it, that is how progress is made.  All these people here in this thread are trying to be nice, but that ain't going to help you.  If you follow my advice you will become pro fast.

KEEP IT SIMPLE, LOOK AT HER EYES, THEN RECREATE IT with the eye morphs, do you have a second monitor?

You need to setup your characters face so it's right next to the reference image so you can compare and reproduce.

1. Reference Image

2. Compare and reproduce, REPEAT, compare and reproduce, REPEAT... REPEAT.. Compare and reproduce... Repeat, Render.. Keep going.

[mod note: You can give input without the language or personal attacks. Consider this a warning]

Can I get anyone's honest feedback?  Maybe an honest feedback from a vendor?  I really need to boost sales but I'm doing something deathly wrong.  Don't worry, I won't be offended on any critics, critics are for people to learn and I've learned a whole lot of things from them.

...wolfie

(Disclaimer: I don't own the figures, so can't comment on anything not communicated by the product page. I am not a Renderosity Vendor, sorry. But, I have plenty of other valuable experience to offer that could help.) Just honest commentary, nothing more, nothing less. :)

I'll focus on Tina Perez, but may come back and comment on the other product, if you wish.

Tina Perez

1. It may have been a better idea to go with a more neutral name for your character. A single name might have been better or even a fanciful name. ie: "Tina" or "Tina the Bombshell" It most likely would have been much better if you had used a name that promoted your figure's unique attributes. A potential consumer should be presented with a product's "selling point" as soon as possible. Often, the best place to do that is in the product's name. So, for instance, "Versatile Tina" (if your figure was exceptionally versatile) or, probably more accurately in this case "Custom Tina", since the model includes some custom morphs and even some "extra" morphs. So, in that line of thinking, "Extra Tina" might be an interesting name. (But, whatever you do, don't name a product like that "Tina With Extras" or "Tina With Custom Morphs." The idea is to pique the customer's interest by using words that they can quickly associate with certain features, not to "spell it out for them" with a non-snazzy descriptive name.)

1a - Additional advice: If you continue producing "custom" morphs and products that make heavy use of them, I would suggest you start learning about "Brand Marketing." Specifically - You need a "Brand Name" for this sort of "Product Line." Why? All it takes for a customer to associate value with a product line is ONE good experience. That's it. Of course, the same can be said for bad experiences and that's where "quality" comes into play with helping to generate product sales and brand-name recognition. If I were you, I would begin marketing a brand name by creating a line of custom-morph figures and I would use that brand name to help me market them and to associate quality with future products. (This goes far, far, beyond anything your user/vendor name can do on its own.) For instance, the brand name of "Custom" or "JW Custom's" or "Wolfpack Custom's" or whatever you can think of that is catchy, implies the major beneficial attribute of the product (Custom Morphs, which can be scarce.) and can be easily remembered by both current and prospective customers would be exactly the thing you'd want to create. In this case, "Tina Perez" would be changed to "Custom Tina" or "JW Custom's "Tina"" or "Wolfpack Custom's "Tina."" (Take a moment to look through "Brand Name" products in the portfolio of successful competitor creators and, after a bit of consideration, you'll see the benefits of using the same strategy.)

1. The ad-panes do not quickly and easily communicate the most desirable or most important features of the product. The title render does a decent job of it, but what's the first render after that? Fingernails... and eye colors... You've been around for a long time. How many eye-colors have you seen advertised for a figure product? Lots, right? And, count on your fingers the number of times you have said to yourself "Gee, I really wish I had six eye colors, some custom fingernails and six makeup options for this figure!" Yes, it's possible that you have said that... BUT, was that the first thing you thought about when using the product for the first time? I hope not! :) And, if it wasn't, then why is that the first ad-pane on your product page? See how that works?

Use this product as a case-study on how you should consider marketing your products in the future:

1. What makes this product unique in what it offers the consumer? Find the most powerful "reason to buy" for this product that you can. What is it? Is it the custom face? Custom gens? Materials? Texture choices? What, exactly, is in this product that will force a customer to purchase it because they "just gotta have it?" Find those things, list them in order of "customer's incentive to purchase," then structure your marketing in such a way to focus on those features, first, before your "also-ran" filler material.

2. So, how do you focus on those desirable qualities that will bring customers? Well, for one, you don't devote an entire ad-pane to "tanlines and tatoos" and then don't show the "tanlines and tatoos." Go ahead, refresh your memory of that ad-pane and then think on the sorts of things I'm focusing on. What do you think I would say about that ad-pane? Now, take ALL of the text off that ad-pane and then ask yourself "What is this picture trying to advertise to me." What's your answer? Is it unique "tanlines and tatoos" or is it clothing? Or, is it just texture sets for clothing? Maybe poses or hair?

How many ad-pane pics have you seen for a hair model that don't show the whole hair model or ANY of its special morphs or movement morphs? How about clothing? How many clothing products do not show movement morphs or opening/closing/on/off/whatever/special morphs? Take a look at "texture packs." What do they typically advertise effectively? (And, this is one of the few instances when I will praise non-merchant-resource-clothing-retexture-packs...) They show the product that they are selling and make it obvious what that product is. (Kind of hard not to with those products, really...)

Do the same with every single ad-pane that you produce. Yes, you can do "glamor shots" and there is nothing wrong with a few of those to show off your product. But, the only thing your prospective customers are looking for are answers to the question "Why would I want to buy this product." If you don't answer that question in your ad-panes, it will NOT get answered and they will move on to products that answer that question successfully.

1. In highly technical product pages, a good bit of pointers and text are needed to get the customer to focus on specific visual features. But, remember that you have limited real-estate - Every letter on a graphic covers up what is behind that letter, if anything. So, do you really need that much descriptive text and, if you do, how can you arrange it so that it doesn't detract from the graphic image you're using to show off that particular feature? You have two lines of communication in those ad-panes: Written language and graphic presentation. Which is more important for each and how much of either should you include in that planned ad-pane?

On Renderosity, you have the option to include a wall-of-text (More or less), if you wished, on the product page, but you have LIMITED options regarding ad-panes. That means that graphical presentation space is at a premium! Yes, include some descriptive text, here and there, but be sure that you use the ad-pane graphics and renders to the fullest extent that you can. Customers here want to "see" the product and, while they do appreciate good descriptions, you have a word-count for every ad-pane! You must give a good graphical representation, FIRST, if you're creating a demonstration pic of the product's features. Only once that is done can you then determine the best way to incorporate any necessary text inclusions. Once it starts to get filled with text, then you have to think about moving such "details" into a good, textual, presentation on the product or editorial page.

Too much textual explanation in a graphic ad-pane means that either the graphic is poorly done or a graphic, and must be explained, or the ad-pane is not suitable for a good explanation of the product's features.

1. From what I can see of this product, from its product page:

a) The mouth morph is too extreme, almost cartoonish. This is the first thing I notice on any morph package, free or for sale, that has been done by an amateur intending to produce a "realistic, yet distinctive" morph. Please, understand, I'm not calling you an amateur! I'm saying that this portion of the morph looks amateurish, considering that the product appears to be intended to be rendered as a realistic figure. Further, I'll also add that V4's facial topology, while forgiving in some respects, can get cranky when it comes down to the realism of dialed Expressions a custom face can portray. So, whenever geometry gets yanked around too severely, unexpected results can often be found when custom morphs are not created with close attention to working with common Expression morphs. I don't know if that is the case or not, here, but seeing that extreme lip/mouth morph causes me to ask the question - "How well does that morph really work with the figure's Expression morphs?" (That might just be me, but others could have asked themselves the same question. In essence, unless done very, very, well, with very close attention and evidenced knowledge of how V4's topology deforms with its Expression morphs, there is every likelihood that truly "unique" face morphs will just not deform very well. This is the strongest limiting factor for V4 Custom Face morphs. Some conscientious creators recognize this and add their own custom expression morphs, fixes or controlled morphs to handle this ever-present problem. See the "GND" figures or "Aery Soul's V4" figure for excellent examples.)

b) The eyes are too rounded on the outside edge. It looks as if the geometry was smoothed there and contracted around that edge and others. (I don't have a wire-frame, obviously.) The eye opening also, consequently, appears small. Here, I'm not talking about "beauty", just a "technical" issue if the figure's facial features are intended to be realistically proportioned. In that line of thought and in concert with the point above concerning Expression morphs, the chin, from bottom lip to bottom of chin, looks a bit too long and could present some issues, IMO, with certain morphs. You can see those issues in some of the expressions you rendered. The resulting expression, due to that distance AND V4's native topology, moves out of the region of "the uncanny valley" and into a more cartoonish look. Is that what you wanted? If so, then, perhaps, you should have moved further in that general direction with the rest of the figure. Consistency of overall artistic design is important for discriminating customers. That doesn't mean that every single customer is going to be very discriminating in this sort of category of choices! However, you want to maximize the opportunity that EVERY single category of potential purchaser is pleased with your product, right? In terms of overall choice, between caricature and realism, the best products seem to firmly embrace one or the other, not both.

c) It's great that you have taken steps to optimize certain material and platform choices. That's a very smart idea! However, you should probably have pushed that a little bit more in your marketing. "Crossover" character sets are not that common and that is a quality in your product that needs to get noticed a bit more. Also, you have no full texture shots that I can see. (Also remember the "Tanlines and Tattoo comments, above.) That means that I can't see the full quality that you're promoting, only tiny bits of it. I don't want full body nudes of the character for some prurient interest I might want to satisfy, I want to see the whole "product" that I am considering spending my money on.

d) Tanlines don't look like that, from what I can see of them. A "tanline" texture should be more than just a Photoshop overlay or filter. The tanlines look painted on because they do not diffuse realistically into the surrounding skin tone. Tanlines are sharp only where the clothing is held closely to the body and will not move very much, giving the sun ample opportunity to do its concentrated damage in specific areas. Fade your tanlines in areas where clothing would be loose and only make them sharper, not "sharp", in areas where clothing is tight. Sharp tanlines do, however, depend on the clothing, so I would advise that you provide three types of tanline and ADVERTISE that fact: Bikini, One-Piece and Halter-Top. You could, if you wished, add others or even use some material wrangling to mix and match them. Once you have the base texture done, taking some time to add features to it, like you have done, is a great thing. But, don't put that extra effort into it if what you're producing isn't truly "special" or isn't done well. It's just not worth your time to go through that unless it's done right and is truly a "value added" feature of the product.

e) I have no idea what tattoos are included beyond the partially obscured bits I can see. They look like overlays of mostly "primitive tattoos." That's not "bad", but it's not "great", either. So, having them spotlighted tells the customer what, exactly? "Not great tattoos", perhaps? You may have been better served by devoting that space to something else and combining the tattoos and tanlines in a collage shot of all the various types, so that the customer just gets the impression "The product also includes some tanlines and tattoos" with no increased expectation beyond that. Spotlighting them makes it appear as if they're a major feature and they're really not looking good enough to me to be a "major feature" of the product, considering that you have more features more worthy of increased marketing shots. If you really want to highlight the tattoos, make sure that they are of a quality worth highlighting. (See various, very good, tattoo texture packs sold here and compare them with your inclusions. You're not selling just tattoos, but if you're highlighting them, their quality should be no more than just a mere step below good quality examples of such products.)

Let's take a look at what I consider to be a good presentation and overall good product page that incorporates many of the things I've pointed out, above: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/the-metropolitan-collection---lyon-and-paris-v4-2/93874

For any Poser user, the name "danae" is almost synonymous with "Quality" when it comes down to texture packs. This is no exception and it's obviously no accident - It's a wonderful product. But, more importantly, see how danae has used some of the principles I discussed, above? "The Metropolitan Collection." That's a "Brand Name." Look at what the ad-panes focus on and look at their hierarchy of presentation. What's being stressed in this product's images? Two faces, very distinctive, and a nice body shape with very good body texture, right? Notice how ad-pane space is maximized in this product page by the combination of the use of the different faces and some makeup options in the SSS product highlight ad-panes! Two ad-panes, one for each morph, and even some flaunting of makeup options, without the distraction of the mention of them, in a single ad-pane that is actually meant to focus on the SSS feature. See how that small amount of space was used to communicate several different attributes for the product without being overly "busy?" Very classy, right? And, what's the "punchline" for this product at the end? What little "extra" does this product advertise at the end? Hands and feet, right? AND, another plug for the SSS feature, as well. There are four pics there and they tell the potential customer "This product pays attention to details and, not only has great SSS, but has very realistic textures for the hands and feet - No expense has been spared in bringing you this high-quality product." That's a six-shot combo straight to the potential customers "throw money at it" button. An extremely nice finisher!

These are "honest" criticisms made in an honest effort to help you better promote your products. When I make these sorts of comments, my first concern is, almost always, in helping an artist increase the quality and saleability of their product. Here, that is my only concern. I am willing to answer, or attempt to answer, any sort of question you have regarding this subject. What I would suggest that you do is to spend some time researching a few key points that can help you improve the presentation and quality of your products:

1. Take a look around for information regarding human form, especially facial characteristics and facial proportions. V4's face is difficult to get "realistic", but it has a good bit of geometry to work with, which is more than can be said about some other figures. Focus not on "defining" individual features, but in defining them in relationship to the overall proportions of the face. An example: "Big Lips" are often considered "big" in regards to proportion of nearby facial landmarks. A narrower jaw and chin, for instance, will make lips appear "bigger", right? Similarly, a narrower face and higher cheek structure can make a nose appear "hawkish" in combination with just some slight adjustments to the nose structure. "Hollow" eyes can be defined by a heavier brow ridge and some puffiness added below the eyes. etc.. So, when going for a "distinctive" look or when trying to reproduce a certain face, those features that really stand out at first-glance may not actually be the ones that truly add that "certain something" that gives the observer that overall impression.

2. Sell what you mean to sell and be sure that the customer knows it when they look at the literature for your product. Establish a hierarchy of important selling points and stick to it. Any "value added" features that are not main feature of the product should be presented as such. Keep the focus where it needs to be and the customer will naturally interpret those small, value-added, features as being truly valuable additions. Don't water everything down by showing everything, but focusing on nothing.

3. Work on two rendering styles - Technical and Illustrative. Do Not Clutter Up Your Marketing Materials With Unnecessary Glamor Shots. (I didn't focus on this, above, but will try to quickly explain, here.) All of your marketing ad-panes, except for one, are glamor shots that don't really add anything. In some cases,like with the tattoos and tanlines, they actually confuse what's being advertised. Either the render is a "Technical" render, showing off technical and specific aspects of the product, or it's an Illustrative render, showing how a certain aspect of the product works in a "real world" situation. Glamor shots are good for the main pic or as an additional inclusion, but do not use them in Technical or Illustrative shots. They're for funsies, appeal and for eye-catching, not for explaining to a customer what a product's features are.

4. Work on writing ad-copy. Go to a major manufacturer's website and take a look at their ad-copy. What you wrote in your text portion of your product page was not worth writing. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. In this particular market, what you must do is to elaborate on the features that you have presented, visually and effectively, to the potential consumer. All you did was tell the potential consumer that you were proud of the product and that it was "good." That's not worth writing.

What you write must be worth writing because it is worth reading!

Focus on that when you write your product's description. Also - There's an editorial page available, right? Does it cost extra to fill it up? If not, why didn't you use it? If it costs more to use it, then you either have to be much more efficient in your initial presentation or you're going to have to make up for that by footing a bit more percentage. While I don't think you would have had to use the Editorial section, you probably should have, just because you chose to highlight so many features of the figure. But, no matter what, there is no excuse for just using what amounts to a "tagline" in your product description. None. Words are important and they were invented for people to be able to communicate across space and time. Use them effectively and you will be rewarded.

PS - I'm a long-winded blowhard and I know it. :) That's ok, since nobody sent me a check to limit my word-count on this post. (I charge eight cents (USD) per word to redact words... and only five cents to write them.) But, I'm also willing to offer whatever sort of helpful commentary I can, either on general or specific topics. If you have any questions or would like me to address anything specific, all you have to do is ask. If you want to cuss me out, you can PM me and launch a tirade in my general direction and I won't mind. :) But, I think you wanted honest commentary so that's what I'm giving. Take care and good luck!

Edit-Add: I'm sorry that I didn't see your "no more critics desired" instructions. I just answered the OP. Just know that once you turn it on, you can't turn off the Internetz... :) If Rendo would allow long-term edits, this misunderstanding could have been cleared up by an edit to the thread-title or OP.

hi again :))

i agree that the lips don't looked changed that much.  if you look at the lighting on your most recently posted renders of her, you can see that the light is hitting a large defined area on the right side of her face to the side of her mouth [upper lip to nostrils area], meaning that the mouth is drawn forward a tad unnaturally, hence the 'duckbill'.  also, it is so very hard to tell in the renders if she even has top lashes - i can kind of see them, so i don't know if they're barely visible due to colour, or if possibly the morph has caused the lashes to inbed a little into her overly heavy lids [which could happen if her eyes are to drawn too far back/sunken], and i do think the lid lines themselves could use a bit more definition, meaning create a little more actual lid area for the makeups to be visible upon, if that make sense.  i also think that by giving her a bit more lid area it would help to better balance out the space betwixt lid line and brow.  and i don't think that by making these kind of changes that it will alter her too badly where she'll no longer feel like the Tina you created/intend her to be.

i know, i know, you've so very much to take in right now, but a thought occurred to me about your promos/lighting situation...  there have been some awesome words of advice in this thread, along w. examples of various lighting, and i'm of the extreme belief that in renders, paintings, etc., lighting is so extremely crucial.  there have been a few folks that seem to know quite a bit lighting and setting things up to show things off, so i'm wondering, Wolfie, if you've thought about just giving your pack to one of them [regardless of where you might be right now in her makeover] just to see what they could produce - i'm not talking about anyone doing your promo renders for you, i'm simply curious what she may look like under someone who truly gets the whole lighting business and all its subtle nuances.  it may be that some of the things i see could look vastly different under various light set-ups, and that those differences could lend further insight into your character.  of course, i don't know if anyone might be willing either, so as i said, it's just a thing that passed in my mind...

jamminwolf : Can I ask about ya work flow n what app's you are using ?

Seems you have a bit of an attitude trepleen... have you made any character?  Do you have a store here? No, I looked.  Any gallery here?  No I looked.  Am I too lazy to get a reference photo?  No, my cousin, Tina gave me a few.  Is it easy to morph a character to the exact look you're intending to?  No, it takes LOTS AND LOTS of experience.  Do I have a real life job that hinders me from staying on the computer all day studying and doing perfect work?  Yes.  Am I perfect?  HELL NO!  Am I listening to those who gave me critics and are helping me out with what needs to be changed?  Yes.  Do I misunderstand at times, and/or do the people who critic not give me enough details at times?  Yes.  Is this an easy task?  NO.  So quit yelling at me, I'm making a lot more progress than you sound like I'm doing.  A few  people even said in this thread that I'm listening and making progress.  Did you read the thread?  Don't sound like it.

Yes, the people are being nice, but hard enough to give me TRUE critics.  Trust me, read this thread, they're tearing me up and I'm taking it all and making progress.  Like 3 people said already, IT TAKES GUTS to stand up here and say, "hey, I need critics and your opinion".  Trust me, I've taken some beaten.  But I'm still here :)

The main thing is I want to know what customers think of my work, what I'm doing wrong, what I'm doing right.  I'm getting out with the people to find what they want and looking for in a character, also I'm getting help with technique stuff, such as lighting, clothes, morphs, and poses.

cough Anyhow!  Was checking and posting via my smart phone during breaks at work... Got home from work ready to roll my sleeves and get to work but a storm was brewing.  Unplugged my computer and stereo, brought in my laptop from my car and did some work till the battery died (unfortunately it wasn't fully charged).  Waited a few hours till the storm ceased, then copied the changes to my main computer, did some more work, made the pose file (head and body morphs), copied them to the laptop, updated the Poser scene and rendered.  I'm not definite sure about the lips, what do you guys think?  I fixed at least the inner eye pretty good, and the outer eye some, just haven't had a lot of time to thoroughly check what's making her top outer eye do that, but I think they all look much better.  Made the eyelash a little darker.  Also, added translucence to the hair as adviced, looks much better in IDL, thanks! :)

Body morphs, yes, I pumped up the breasts, fitness, and hips.  She should now pass as an adult that's not so "petite breast/hip size".  I feel brave enough to render her nude, but I want to make sure, don't want Renderosity breathing down my neck, what do you guys think?

First render... almost like the recent sample renders, corner view, camera zoomed out a little.  Second render... body sample to show you her new body shape, gave her a "life" by letting her smile... lol.  Third render... dead straight look at the camera so you can see her face from straight front.

Ok, and now I must go to bed, too bad I didn't have more time, would've liked to edit them tattoos... sighs

Again, I want to thank each and everyone of you for all the critics and help.  But people... read up with on thread, don't just read the first post on the first page and come here and repeat everything everyone's already said... sheeshh!

...wolfie

jamminwolf : Can I ask about ya work flow n what app's you are using ?

Not sure what you mean by "work flow", but I use DS3 and Ultra Face Morphs merchant resource for the morphs.  Gonna learn Blacksmith 3D (morphs) to sculpture some.  I use Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop, and Blacksmith 3D (paint) for the textures. And finally, I use DS & Poser for the mat files and Poser for icons, both for promos...
Ok, got a couple more LONG posts to read, but for now I'm hittin' the hey, gotta work tomorrow!

...wolfie

...yes, I pumped up the breasts, fitness, and hips.

Just wanted to say, you can never go wrong by doing that. lol

...yes, I pumped up the breasts, fitness, and hips.

Just wanted to say, you can never go wrong by doing that. lol

Posting via smart phone, 

Yes, well, a lot of you do like huge breasts, I & many others prefer medium (average) to petite.  According to Renderosity testing QA standard, no matter how old characters look, breasts have to be huge for them to say "she's adult".   Glad you like it though, maybe I'll start making them big so I can finally display nude promos.

...wolfie 

PS I'll try to respond to other posts when I get home 

i think it is again improved in all the respects you worked on. i will try to keep this post purely on what i would say are technical corrections to be made, but will briefly add, that i agree with the posts of many, to progress in the marketplace at this point, you need more custom morphing experience. that said, using poser magnets, wings3d and the poser morph brush, you can create any conceivable face or bodyshape you want on v4 if you learn them well, you dont need to spend a lot, but that is another debate.

 first the eyes, the closest person i can identify with eyes like that is actress jessica amlee

in poser terms her eyes are at a negative slant, and the outer eyelid height is lowered slightly, but you see that the eyefold still follows the curve of the eye. for you to achieve this on your model, you can either use the morph brush set to smooth with a very small area of effect on the eye fold, (to hide it)be careful of mirroring. i'd just morph each side individually. (mirroring often works but is not always ideal) or use poser magnets with small targeted mag zones and z rotate the eyefold that extends out to match the eye curvature. a combination of these two things would be ideal. this would be a good way to begin learning custom morphing. it will take tweeking, and getting used to the quirks of the mag zones and morph brush settings.

 the lips, i would dial back every custom setting you have on the lips and mouth, by say, .08 and then see what it looks like. you could also try a magnet zone that covers the mouth and lip area, then increase the y scale slightly on the mag, and maybe move the z scale lower slightly, or just move the z plane back.

the nose seems too narrow to me, but not impossibly so. a basic rule, while not an absolute at all is, mouth corners are at the same lateral point as the pupils, the inner eye corners are at the same lateral point as the outside of the nostrils. this is a guide only, but when deviating, if you deviate greatly, you will begin to hit the uncanny valley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

the darker patch of texture that goes across the mid line of her nose, is also i think too much contrast, and to me, is oddly positioned. if possible, i would lower it slightly, and decrease its darkness level a bit.in the front on picture of her smiling, it also looks as though the curves under the eye are overly pronounced, possibly from eye height or depth, i would fix this with the morphing brush set to smooth(careful not to let the morph brush hit the lashes)

i would consider making her eyebrow texture double the current vertical thickness they are now as well, but that is probably more a personal opinion.

lastly, while the lashes are improved, they still look overly transparent, or hazy. i assume you are using a gamma correction of 2.2 to render. if so, is the lash trans map gamma set to 1? if it is, consider setting it to .08

i know you've taken a lot of critisizsm, but you have responded to it and improved on Tina within a short space of time, and clearly wish to keep doing so. that is why i have listed so many things as flawed.i hope it is not disheartening.

good luck

 jamminwolf : why is daz the biggest vender ?

daz has a lot of $$$,$$$ ,endless experience a 3D crew and all the tools.
how prepared is daz for the race ?

jamminwolf  has some $$$ ,has some experience and a few merchant resources tools.
how prepared is jamminwolf for the race ?

V4 polycount is 60,000 cause at the time of her release poser didn't have sub divide.
20,000 polycount characters are much better then 60,000 polycount characters for every reason.
bend better ,rig better,a lot easier and faster to work on.

I've been around CGI for a long time and I have all the experience and tools to make V4 in to any thing I wanted.
I flat out refuse to work with any 60,000 polycount character
,cause I've been around long enough to know a 20,000 subdivided charter is the way to go.

If I really wanted to compete on a daz level I would get Genesis 2

https://www.blender.org/

free, has box modeling tools and sculpting tools

http://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-tablets
there's one for $80.00 for sculpting.

Ask yourself one simple question : What am I doing??? Spinning dials or being creative?

If you'r a dial spinner? Join the club, that's what most do, and that's why ALL V4's will Always be V4"s. And honestly, the pot is full for the next decade or 2.

if you use V4++ morphs, you"ll never get where you want to get. When you use a merchant resources morph pack? Ten times worse.

Do yourself a pleasure. Throw V4++ out the door and throw ALL merchant resourses morph packs as far as humanly possible.

Uninstall them, delete them, pulverise them, nuke them, pour them over with chemicals, burm them, shoot them, stab them, crack them down bits by bits, drunk them, drug them, poison them, jail them, crush them. Morph packs are for end users, not for content creators who WILL all end up with just the: "Next dial spinned one".

Wanna be creative? Wanna sell?
Download Blender, (or equivalent) import the standard V4 basic object file, and start.
That is where you have to start if you want to achieve something.

2 more remarks  :
I am NOT a vendor, oh dear lord please help me to NEVER become a vendor, and I do not have a gallery either..
Secondly, V4 has 78.000 polygons, 75% of those are doing exactly and including taxes NOTHING.

My 2cents:

The main reason your products don't sell is that most people don't find them attractive. Simple as that. Yes, the masses prefer 'Pretty Fairies', that's just how it is.

While I commend you for trying something 'different', it won't get you many sales. You pretty much have to decide if you want to keep making 'different' morphs or if you want to make money. My best advice is for you to stop wasting your time on improving your current figures, no matter how much you improve your promos, most people won't be interested. Instead, spend your time making new characters.

Harsh? Not really. I've read through the thread and I haven't seen any comments I would deem unnecessarily harsh (granted I have one person on ignore), only good advice. Honestly, if you feel the critique given to you in this thread is 'breaking' you, then content creation is not for you ;)

I wish you good luck, it seems you are listening to much of the advice given, but you would be better off spending that advice on new characters and forget about the past.

(Oh, and don't ignore what LouisCross is saying, they may sound harsh, but they do have some good points!)

Hope this didn't sound too harsh, and I don't mean to 'break' you, just help you improve :)

(I'm not a vendor, but I do spend a lot of money on content, including a fair share on v4 morphs, and I know what I look for)

I'm kind of with DreaminGirl on this.

It seems you're getting to a point with this character set that your time is being wasted trying to improve it when you could be spending that time on a new character set that might sell better. Spend some time looking at the character sets that are selling the highest, and try to go with something similar, if you want to try making real money. The pet projects are for spare time when you want to make a character because you want to make it, regardless of how well it sells. I think that's the case with the Tina character. She's not very attractive to a wide enough audience. She has a certain level of cuteness, but the mouth is where it falls short. Plus she's extremely young looking, which might appeal to some people, but could put off a lot of others for being "too young". If you're basing her on someone you know in real life, then your personal opinion of her is going to find her more attractive than the average stranger, because you know that girl's personality and that adds to her physical appeal on a mental level. It's hard to convey that, especially in a 3D model, to strangers. All the marketing and promo advice has it's merits, but it doesn't matter how great the promos are, most people are going to look at the final images of the character and ignore the descriptions.

I remember reading an article about a designer who made ceramic dinnerware. She hated it, because it wasn't what she wanted to do as an artist, but it's what paid her bills. In her free time she made the art she wanted to make and sold it on the side, but it was never enough to pay her bills. And that's pretty much what most artists have to deal with. You make the art that sells to make the money, and make what you want to make on the side, for extra money or just because that's what you want to do.

You might try attempting this character again at a later point after you've produced a few more that are more mainstream, and see if you can take a different approach with her. Sometimes it's best to step away from a project for a while and come back to it after you haven't seen it in a while with a fresh set of eyes. That tends to show you a lot of things you didn't notice before.

It also takes a while to build up a reputation, especially in this market, and with that reputation comes higher sales. There's a lot of competition, so it can be difficult to find a niche that you're good at that also produces high volume sales. Steer away from using merchant resources as much as possible, and learn to create your own textures from scratch. That will go a long way with helping to increase sales. If customers see the same skin texture on your characters that they see on 20 other characters, they're less likely to buy it unless you include something unique that the other 20 don't include, such as a new outfit, or some kind of accessories. That of course requires learning how to build and rig clothing if you don't already know how.

Sorry for being "hard" on my previous post but:

Correct, V4++ and the resourses morph packs are for end users that do not have the tools nor the time to invest to create something "new".
Using V4++ and the resourses moprh packs, everybody, content creators and end user will Always end up with "about the same thing".

if everybody can achieve the same results? Why would they buy? They aleady "have" what you offer up for sale? 

That's why I wrote : Start from fresh.
Use Blender (or equivalent) load the V4 object file, and sculpt, morph, become creative, make something "unique", make customers "see" what you have created.

The obj file being, one thing, the texture being a second. => Create a texture to go with your new morphed object file.

The rigging being a third thing. => Improve the V4 rigging, and show it in your renders.

Customers want to "see" what they are ppaying for, and you have to be unique in what you have to offer.

And on a last note; Nobody buys a sad looking girl. They have to look overjoyed, happy to see "us customers".

I pretty well much agree with AmbientShade in his last post, particularly on making a reputation for yourself.  I am not a vender but I do spend a great deal on content every month but the biggest chunk of that goes to probably only three vendors.   I have great deal of V4 stuff so my spend on that is limited and most goes on sci-fi scenes but I but I buy what is good quality and easy to use.  So when I find a vender building a scene that, not only has good textures and you have the ability to remove walls and other objects so that you can get the right camera angle, I tend to come back for other scenes.  It is all on reputation, I know what the scene is like and, more important, how I can use it, before I buy.  OK your product is for V4 but the principle is the same and building a name that buyers can relate should mean repeat business.

There is also a lot to be said from walking away from a project at some point.  If you are doing it for money there has to be a point where you say that there is no way you will recover the time spent in any financial way.  That does not mean you don't learn but take what you learn and use that on another project.

Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best and hope you can put all the valuable information provided by some helpful and well meaning people to good use.

Correct, V4++ and the resourses morph packs are for end users that do not have the tools nor the time to invest to create something "new".
Using V4++ and the resourses moprh packs, everybody, content creators and end user will Always end up with "about the same thing".

if everybody can achieve the same results? Why would they buy? They aleady "have" what you offer up for sale? 

That's why I wrote : Start from fresh.
Use Blender (or equivalent) load the V4 object file, and sculpt, morph, become creative, make something "unique", make customers "see" what you have created.

The obj file being, one thing, the texture being a second. => Create a texture to go with your new morphed object file.

The rigging being a third thing. => Improve the V4 rigging, and show it in your renders.

Customers want to "see" what they are paying for, and you have to be unique in what you have to offer.

That's true to an extent, but when it comes to body shapes, it's important to use the Morphs++ packs so that customers can use the clothing they buy on your custom figure. Of course you can also include a custom body shape as well, (in addition to), and that has worked for a few top selling artists, but the one thing those artist's custom characters have always lacked is clothing support. Creating a custom figure that doesn't work with the available clothing, is basically just like creating a new figure. It needs clothing support to really catch on. Unless you are willing to be the sole creator of all the clothing that comes with it, or your character is intended pretty much entirely for nude/mostly nude renders. We do have the fitting room in PP2014, but more people have P10 than 2014. And it doesn't work all that well with everything, unless you're willing to spend some time with it, and even then it still depends on the individual clothing.

"That's why I wrote : Start from fresh.

Use Blender (or equivalent) load the V4 object file, and sculpt, morph, become creative, make something "unique", make customers "see" what you have created."

How exactly is V4's obj file sculpted in the almightly blender

going to produce anything more compelling than what 

Daz used to make the (now free) morph++ packs

or what any other third party has done with that mesh??.

Shane is quite correct

Look at what already sells and emulate it.

and accept the reality that $commercial trends exist for a reason.

Sure there is always a place for "personal projects".

look at the "indie"Film market

Full of films that refuse to submit to hollywood

formulaics & procedurals and none of them are making money

Meanwhile repetitive junk like "hot tub time machine 2" gets green lighted and makes money.

LouisCross it's complicated n ya need lawyers etc etc
so you don't mess with vickys rigs for commercial sells.

wolf359 quote
Meanwhile repetitive junk like "hot tub time machine 2" gets green lighted and makes money.

apparently they didn't send you directions.
drink a 5th of ya favorite alcohol n smoke a pound of weed.
till your iq is lowered to about 50.
your love the movie then ;)

 

LouisCross it's complicated n ya need lawyers etc etc
so you don't mess with vickys rigs for commercial sells.

Actually, with animated joint centers you can pretty much do whatever you want with Vicky's rig as long as whatever you do can be injected and you aren't including proprietary content. Same is true with any other figure.

 

LouisCross it's complicated n ya need lawyers etc etc
so you don't mess with vickys rigs for commercial sells.

Actually, with animated joint centers you can pretty much do whatever you want with Vicky's rig as long as whatever you do can be injected and you aren't including proprietary content. Same is true with any other figure.

probably could have worded that better. other then about 2 or 3 people here think areo soul was one .

no one else ever does that do they ?

I could be wrong but it just seems like a bad idea to me to mess with the base rigs cause you would probably create a lot of on foreseen problems.
 

Ok..... i'm still at work, took a break last night going out for a couple beers playing pool with the buddies, came home & watched TV, then looked and found what a couple of you were talking about.  Fixed it and now she looks good, will upload the images when I get home.

For now, I want to respond to a couple things.  First, I have a real job, this is my "extra money/fun" projects.  I do not like, and am SICK of seeing big lip, big eyes, kiddy face on adult bodies fairies, so no, there are plenty out there, I'm not making any.

I downloaded Blender, gonna play and learn a little sculpturing in Blender and Blacksmith 3D, but there's no way in hell I'm just gonna jump in and start creating things & character, he'll the program itself may take a year to learn, much less the sculpture tools and all that jazz.

I am NOT gonna get some couple hundred bucks program and start taking pictures of woman/girls, or buy skin images to make textures. That program itself may take another year to learn & become a pro at it. I don't even want to learn.

Folks, this is where merchant resources come from, whether it's morphs or  textures come from, for people who specialize in character creation and have no interest, time, or cash for resources to make all these other things.

And the people who make texture & morph resources, maybe they have no interest in making characters.  So what are they gonna do? Sell it to vendors who don't have time nor interest in making there own textures/custom morphs.  Make sense? 

Anyways, after I upload the images, I'm done here, gonna walk out the door & ignore this thread, tired of hearing same old critics that I already or intend to fix, tired of hearing the hate for merchant resources & V4, tired of hearing Blender and all that unnecessary "morph & texture your own stuff".

Just because someone else created those things, it doesn't become crap if they sell them.  Also, my morph MR I use isn't just  a bunch of heads, it's a whole lot of head, forehead, eye, nose, etc. etc. morphs for your own creativity.  We have "just head" MR here but I don't care for them.

...wolfie

The main thing is I want to know what customers think of my work, what I'm doing wrong, what I'm doing right.  I'm getting out with the people to find what they want and looking for in a character, also I'm getting help with technique stuff, such as lighting, clothes, morphs, and poses.

Again, I want to thank each and everyone of you for all the critics and help.  But people... read up with on thread, don't just read the first post on the first page and come here and repeat everything everyone's already said... sheeshh!

I want to address something that is easily overlooked and, in my opinion, you might need to think about - A potential customer will never, ever, know anything about your product until you tell them.

That means that no matter how great your product is and no matter what care you took with morphs, a potential customer will only know what's on the outside of the box.  That's really the only thing that you can truly get quality feedback about when it comes down to sales figures. When you ask why you may not have gotten the sales you expected and then provide details like good renders, closeups of unique features, detailed morphs, etc, etc,... those things are not why you didn't get the sales you expected and it's fairly useless to ask why people didn't like them unless you're examining what your product return-rate is. They only matter inasmuch as they were communicated to potential customer base, not as actual users experienced the product after purchase.

Your renders in this thread which highlight the details and the customizations that you crafted into the figure are the sorts of renders you should have included in your original product advertisements. You're somewhat demonstrating in this thread why you believe this product is of a quality that should merit purchase, right? The place to really do that which will get you results is in front of a potential customer and plastered all over your product page in the marketplace. You're doing a fair job of it, here, but that's the sort of thing you should focus on with your product page.

Don't beat yourself up on the "quality" of your morphs as being somehow a reflection on the lack of expected sales. Don't do it. (Except, maybe, for the lips, and you've gotten enough about that.) The reason is very simple - Potential customers did not "see" the quality of your custom morphs and dials in your ads, so they didn't even get far enough to experience them. IF, however, you were examining return rates, then this would now be the time to examine those quality issues, but only because those unique morphs were not adequately communicated to the customer before purchase and they really didn't know what they were truly getting in the first place.

On your renders - Just from the few I've seen here, the skin needs some more highlighting and specular. It's sort of flat in the above renders with the soft lights and taking some time to get some lighting in that will show off highlights (or, make material changes to emphasize those) will be what "shows off" the morph features and skin. Otherwise, it's going to look a little "flat." I'd also recommend trying a couple of hi-contrast light setups, to pull out some of those features for a "Illustrative" profile/isometric shot. For a good Glamor shot, since she sort of looks like a "70's chick", I'd make a light-gel with psychedelic colors in it and project that for a render, too, with appropriate clothing if you have any. (There's a decent freebie light-gel setup either here on or sharecg that has some nice psychodelic colors in it. IIRC, it was originally for DS, but you can rip the textures out of it and use them as gels in Poser and it's not difficult to set up. It won't be a perfect gel shot (no caustics), but it's "good enough" for a fun Glamor shot of your character.) By the way, the hair materials look pretty decent if they had a bit more punch to them, which I think a nice spot used for highlighting/specular would bring out a bit better. I assume you didn't author them, but if you did, you might try the ones BagginsBill posted not long ago. It's a decent material setup, true to form, that yields good, fast, results on transmapped hair, with a little tweaking, just in case you wanted to "pop" the hair a bit, for additional appeal.

jamminwolf youtube has a lot of blender tutorials.

blenders a big app that does every thing but you can learn sculpting tools in a month easy.

jamminwolf :

trepleen looking for a V4 HD

 http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2890825

maybe for ya july or august project with ya blender sculpts ya could make a HD normal or displacement maps for V4

you can see what HD's do here

http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-6-hd-add-on

** **

Anyways, after I upload the images, I'm done here, gonna walk out the door & ignore this thread, tired of hearing same old critics that I already or intend to fix, tired of hearing the hate for merchant resources & V4, tired of hearing Blender and all that unnecessary "morph & texture your own stuff".

Look on the bright side, next time you post a thread asking people to crit your work, you won't have so many annoying responses to read through because most of the people who took the time to offer their opinions in this thread probably won't bother. Your thread title should have been "Looking for advice I agree with, all other advice not welcome".

@Morkonan: Funny you should mention return rates, in all honesty, I've never had one product returned from a customer, not even so much as a complaint.  Only a couple of technical situation in which a customer didn't understand.  On my renders here, yes, I can see that the IDL lights aren't doing justice on her specular values, the IBL lights show them though, so I'll have to play with the lights some.

@RonnKorr: I'll have a look at some Blender lessons and check them out.  Didn't know Blender has anything to do with creating displacement maps... HD stuff... but only morphs?  How does that go about?

@obm890: Didn't think about that, was just having a bad day and with all this Blender/create your own this and that, my head was spinning around, all I can think of was years of learning all this stuff I'm not interested in for a simple hobby/extra money fun job, and all the confusion.

@TetsuTora: Yep, Jessica Amlee is one very cute girl, and I'm not talking about just sexy and all that, she is that, but she's got this so cute and innocent face about her.  I remember when I first started watching "Heartland", the first thing I thought was, "Wow, her eyes look like my cousin's eyes", in which I made Tina to look like.  Her character as the neighbor girl on Heartland was very annoying though lol, but everyone loved her of course!  Thanks for the tips on the eyes and nose, I followed those lines very closely and succeeded!

Ok, here's the latest renders.  I played with Morph++ and found where the eyelid wasn't following the shape of her eyes (or however way you say it), made her nose wider, and totally re-did her lips (zeroed out V4 Morph++ and started from there).  Yes, I finally got rid of the duck bill lips, lol.

Can anyone tell me if she looks adult or not?  I've not had one respond on that since I changed her body morphs.

This package may go a different direction... maybe "Like Mom, Like 'Daughter", "Sisters of the Stars", etc... I won't be allowed to update her current package unless I add "50% NEW" stuff (said by Jenn), told her my plans, waiting for her respond.  Might pull her out of the store till I'm done.