The non DAZ figures are no good, because they are poorly made.
Yes.  I didn't want to be that blunt, but that is a major problem.  I am not going to speculate on what degree that has affected Dawn/Roxie/Rex vs the former having separate Daz and Poser versions and the latter being Poser-exclusive.  From the promo shots I have seen (not that Content Paradise promos are the greatest example of what a figure can and can't do), Roxie and Rex have some serious bend issues, and someone mentioned that they use a single texture for all body parts, which explains why their skin looks so low res.
While SM deserves no sympathy or defense for dropping the ball in the last 3 years in general, I am pretty sure I recall one of their reasons in the now-defunct CP forums for placing all the blame on DAZ, is that they were uncomfortable with Tri-ax being proprietary.  I don't know enough about IP rights and law to do anything more than speculate on what that would mean.  However, if SM couldn't figure out how to translate Tri-ax into Poser completely from the ground-up, then they would be incredibly restricted on how and where they could sell the product (I'm guessing they could only sell it on DAZ3D, which means that it would have to be an add-on rather than built into Poser ver. X)
Though I think I just remembered that they complained that DAZ shouldn't have found some way to make Poser weight-mapping work natively in DAZ instead of coming up with Tri-ax.  I have no idea if Poser weight-mapping is proprietary or not, or if it is, what its rules are.  (I know that there is a free weight-mapped version of Antonia)

Why does KFC keep their recipe a secret?
Apples to oranges.  3rd party cooks don't create "add-ons" for KFC's chicken, LOL.

Freebies, static? I downloaded so many freebies from DAZ 3D in the past three months to have lost count. I don't think I'll ever use most of that stuff, but I still grabbed it. How is that static?
I think you misunderstood.  They come out with new freebies every week, in addition to some that have been free for years (static) such as Emotiguy, and static ones which have been free for 1 year, such as Dagger Dreams and V4/M4 Basicwear.  Something more recent, are "weekly freebies", which often times are more like bimonthly or monthly.
My fear is that they will accept the industry standard a la Turbosquid and CGTrader which is to only provide static freebies.

And about "industry standard" prices? I have purchased a ton of stuff at between 60% to 80% off, and this includes Genesis 2 stuff, and I am not even in their PC membership program.
Yes, FOR NOW.  But it's only a matter of time before DAZ makes an announcement saying "We have been vastly successful with the industry standard over x years, and it is more profitable.  That is why we plan to slowly phase out hobbyist standards and prices over the next year/2 years.  We will still provide PC+ membership benefits, but these, too, will change to the industry standard.  Instead of products in a permanent PC+ category, we plan to shuffle PC+ prices around for most DAZ originals.  We will have occasional special holiday and seasonal sales when certain items are on sale for PC prices, which will be anywhere from 40 to 75% off"  Along with a bunch of prose as to why this is somehow more awesome.

Well unless the wheels fall of the cart or there is a quantum leap there is no reason not to expect the "industry standard" to not remain what is in common use in the CG industry.... which is what makes it a standard not because someone adopts it.
How many times have I heard that about something or other, only for the speaker/company to pull a 180 a year or 3 down the line?  Fact: nobody, and I mean NOBODY-- keeps their promises.  FACT: DAZ's disclaimers, ToU, etc. are pretty lengthy and explicit about how they can change anything and everything at a whim.

The solution is simple for you, spend a little time make a product submit to Daz, sign the necessary paperwork and you can access the HD tools with the same usage rights as any PA. Might take you a few days to get it sorted.
Perhaps someone does not WANT to become a DAZ PA.  Certainly that appears to be the case for plenty of PAs on Renderosity.  Other PAs, such as DInoraul and Boundless, are former DAZ PAs who decided to up and leave.  Dinoraul still has a store both here and at Content Paradise (though I have no idea if the latter is voluntary, due to CP being partially broken)

There is a lot of rumour milling in this one. Genesis into Poser didn't happen because SM flatly refused to collaborate with DAZ3D. If anything SM refused to collaborate out of some fear of becoming reliant on DAZ3D. But lets face reality is that not already the state of things to a degree, at least content wise? Licensing code is pretty common practice in software these days to be honest and the decision to not add triax was a business move from SM. DAZ3D would have prefered to see native Poser support for Triax figures not as an addon and I suspect very few strings would have been attached. SM need to drop their attitude of we SM have a platform "Poser" you (DAZ3D) make stuff to fit our platform. Maybe SM should try looking to the future and not clinging on to the past so hard. Maybe a simpler explanation for the scenario is SM didn't want to spend the money on developing Poser in this direction.  And the future will reveal a lot as to the reality of what happened here, as we will see how quickly Genesis 3 is brought into to Poser, as none of those propriety arguments hold true with adopting the DQ weight mapping system. If I hear one more misdirective comment about "tail waggin the dog" i think i will lose it :)

The KFC analogy is still relevant in this context. It means that it would be foolish for a business to give away all off it's secrets and lose their competitive advantage.

Your comments about DAZ3D Store pricing are merely speculative and somewhat inflammatory. In my experience the opposite is generally true in business, it's very rare that a company that is doing well financially, will turn around and rewrite their business plans in such a destructive fashion. This kind of behaviour usually comes from waning companies looking for a restructure. Falling revenues generally mean requirement to find immediate new markets, often abandoning the old in the process. When a business is doing well they aim to expand their markets but very rarely will they neglect their stable base for a new risk. Again the future will reveal the truth here.

A company can't renigg on what is Industry standard, the industry decides what is an industry standard. For example the RAW format is the goto format for photographers making RAW an "Industry standard". As the RAW format is the Industry Standard, including support in an application aimed at digital photographers is essential to squarely hit the market. Generally an industry standard is established when something is well supported and the most efficient at doing it's job.  A successful company needs to react to industry standards to stay relevant to its intended target industry. A company that guarantees that it will never changed is pretty much guaranteed to go out of business. The key to survival whether for a small mammal or a corporation is adaptability and evolution. To not change, is tantamount to courting failure. 

As far as not wanting to become a PA, your response here took the original comment out of context. The statement was made in relation to "Why can't I have Daz Studio inhouse content developments tools?" And the answer still is, you can, you just need to become a PA at Daz3D and make the same agreements based on usage of the tools. If a vendor decides that they want to sell elsewhere than that is their right and their own decision. But they can't expect to have inhouse Daz3d development tools as well as sell at competing brokerages.

This thread contains very little useful information about Victoria 7.  I will go now and not let the door do what it tries to do to people like moi.  

@Razor42: the discussions about "industry standards" with derogatory quotes stems from the posters never having looked outside of their tiny Poser ghetto. If they had ever visited sites like GCSociety or fxguide, expanding their painfully limited vision of the world, they would not keep posting silly comments.

There were a couple of points in the Chris Creek interview that I found particularly interesting.

He said that the new board wanted to stop work on an in-house figure and "let the artists come up with one".

He actually had to fight the board to keep figure development going.

Incidentally, he also says, quite candidly, that they bought all the other software packages to keep them out of the hands of Curious Labs (they were Poser's owners at that time.)

There were a couple of points in the Chris Creek interview that I found particularly interesting.

He said that the new board wanted to stop work on an in-house figure and "let the artists come up with one".

He actually had to fight the board to keep figure development going.

Incidentally, he also says, quite candidly, that they bought all the other software packages to keep them out of the hands of Curious Labs (they were Poser's owners at that time.)

Um, there is a saying about being three sides to any story: his side, DAZ's side, and the truth. I met Jim and co last year; one of  my jokes about dawn got tossed out and their was a room of laughter. Jim said "While that's funny, we don't want to trash Hivewire." And he went into the business at hand. I say that because DAZ has really been taking the high road when other companies chose to publicly bash, scratch faces and wig pull.

And DAZ3D takes the high road because they have a business to run and products to make. The management team was brought in to fix the issues the almost ran the company aground a few years ago and brought more innovation to the company since Dan and Chris left. And with Daz has done now, they are way better than a few years ago with Genesis 1, with no poser support and a broken website and all-over-the-place management. And Jim was the main one allaying PA fears during the website mess, and encouraging us to hold on. So Jim and the team has been doing a good job of bringing new tech, and guiding the vision of the company, products, look of the site, most importantly increasing sales of the company and PAs. I can't complain... What DAZ has done to improve my sales have been SO MUCH BETTER than with the the old guard. And any other the PAs will tell you the same thing.

So to me that interview reeks more of desperation than anything else, and is very unprofessional for an owner of a company to even do. So really I would view that interview with a grain of salt because this is the thing you should consider:  If you were pushed out, why is DAZ innovating more since you're gone, and why is your new venture barely a blip on the current landscape? Would seem it should have been the other way around if you really think about it.

So to me that interview reeks more of desperation than anything else, and is very unprofessional for an owner of a company to even do.

Which interview is that? The 2013 interview with 3D Art Direct? And why shouldn't an owner of a company not be interviewed? I don't understand this logic.

Well, since this is a V7 thread, here are a couple of quick test render I did. The first one is of V7, with only a couple of minor morph modifications to the face. The second one is EJ Tatijana. Both were rendered using Iray and the shaders/mats that come with the figures.

"But it's only a matter of time before DAZ makes an announcement saying "We have been vastly successful with the industry standard over x years, and it is more profitable.  That is why we plan to slowly phase out hobbyist standards and prices over the next year/2 years."

This speculation is based entirely on the concept that the hobbyist will not want the most advanced and highest quality products and that they as hobbyist would prefer a lower level of potential than the "professional". That they should not aspire to higher standards and should be satisfied with no improvements simply because they are considered "hobbyists". So far the very opposite is true based on the acceptance of the standards represented by G3F and Iray. I think the reality is that most artists be they pro or hobby always aspire to improving and embrace anything that they believe will let them do that. I don't see the hobbyist market declining any because of increased standards. Nor do I expect the growth of the hobby market to slow even a little bit because people are being given more advanced tools to use to create their art.

So to me that interview reeks more of desperation than anything else, and is very unprofessional for an owner of a company to even do.

Which interview is that? The 2013 interview with 3D Art Direct? And why shouldn't an owner of a company not be interviewed? I don't understand this logic.

Go look on hivewire's website to see the interview. Interviewing owners is one thing; airing dirty laundry is another... Especially when you leave out important details.

 I have read the interview and agree it definitely has some 'spin'. For instance while it discusses the relationship between DAZ and POSER ( and it's various owners) it makes no reference to the huge fallout between DAZ and Curious labs over the Poser 5 EULA ( June/July 2002 ) As I recall this held back DAZ figure development to Poser 4 level features for a long time. More details here...http://www.cocs.com/poser/poser5mess.htm.

 Man I love this forum!  Start out with V7 (if that's the base figure....WOW) and end up with ..................!   I think one complete solution to the whole DAZ/SM debate would be to have one buy the other.  But is that exactly what is wanted? 

 I have read the interview and agree it definitely has some 'spin'. For instance while it discusses the relationship between DAZ and POSER ( and it's various owners) it makes no reference to the huge fallout between DAZ and Curious labs over the Poser 5 EULA ( June/July 2002 ) As I recall this held back DAZ figure development to Poser 4 level features for a long time. More details here...http://www.cocs.com/poser/poser5mess.htm.

 

I read half way thru that page and right now I understand why DAZ 3D decided to code their own application. It isn't like the rewrite of history like most Poser zealots keep harping. "Why would xx/SM work with DAZ when they went out and created DAZ Studio, and you expect SM to work with DAZ 3D after that", etc. etc. I knew it had to do with a business decision and not an emotional one.

 Man I love this forum!  Start out with V7 (if that's the base figure....WOW) and end up with ..................!   I think one complete solution to the whole DAZ/SM debate would be to have one buy the other.  But is that exactly what is wanted? 

Smith Micro is in no position to buy out DAZ.  They are a publicly traded company, it doesn't take much to find their financials.  Since DAZ is not a publicly traded company I have no idea if the reverse is possible, or even desired.  Why would DAZ want to maintain to separate, very high maintenance programs that do the same thing?  Poser may end up with somebody else, I doubt seriously it would be DAZ.

Smith Micro is in no position to buy out DAZ.  They are a publicly traded company, it doesn't take much to find their financials.  Since DAZ is not a publicly traded company I have no idea if the reverse is possible, or even desired.  Why would DAZ want to maintain to separate, very high maintenance programs that do the same thing?  Poser may end up with somebody else, I doubt seriously it would be DAZ.

In another thread, WandW hoped to shoot down a comment of mine and instead egregiously shoot him/her-self in a foot providing me with some very interesting information. In this angle of the ring, the VC behind DAZ, NTT Docomo Capital, the investment branch of NTT Docomo. NTT Docomo is the predominant mobile operator of Japan with about 23,000 employees and 4.2 trillion Yen revenues. The story does not end here, since NTT Docomo is part of the NTT empire with 220,000 employees and 10.5 trillion Yen revenues.

On the other side of the ring is SmithMicro, 380 employees and 100 million $ revenues, a florid firm which spends half of its time trying not to be delisted from NASDAQ due to the too low share price.

Poser could be bought by DAZ with the rounding errors of NTT Docomo Capital balance sheet. But why should DAZ buy it? there is no technology in Poser still worth the cost of paying the lawyers to prepare the documents.

Smith Micro is in no position to buy out DAZ.  They are a publicly traded company, it doesn't take much to find their financials.  Since DAZ is not a publicly traded company I have no idea if the reverse is possible, or even desired.  Why would DAZ want to maintain to separate, very high maintenance programs that do the same thing?  Poser may end up with somebody else, I doubt seriously it would be DAZ.

In another thread, WandW hoped to shoot down a comment of mine and instead egregiously shoot him/her-self in a foot providing me with some very interesting information. In this angle of the ring, the VC behind DAZ, NTT Docomo Capital, the investment branch of NTT Docomo. NTT Docomo is the predominant mobile operator of Japan with about 23,000 employees and 4.2 trillion Yen revenues. The story does not end here, since NTT Docomo is part of the NTT empire with 220,000 employees and 10.5 trillion Yen revenues.

On the other side of the ring is SmithMicro, 380 employees and 100 million $ revenues, a florid firm which spends half of its time trying not to be delisted from NASDAQ due to the too low share price.

Poser could be bought by DAZ with the rounding errors of NTT Docomo Capital balance sheet. But why should DAZ buy it? there is no technology in Poser still worth the cost of paying the lawyers to prepare the documents.

Also keep in mind most of their revenue comes from the mobile divison and that is their main focus.  It doesn't see the Poser group is getting too much for R&D when they coded the library in Adobe Air rather than C++. If that's the case, it will be interesting to see what they do on the figure, dev tools and rendering fronts. And for those that want to use the venture capital argument as a wedge point, please go back a few months when SM was in danger of delisting and you'll find that they received an infusion of venture capital cash which allow their stock price to go up; thought it's still close to penny stock status.

Poser division only brings in around 5% of SM's total revenue anyways. I don't see SM splashing heavy investments their way. Hell, SM doesn't even care about CP lol. If SM was serious about Poser, we would have seen it by now. Instead you just have a bunch of dedicated fans trying their best to make the app better with next to no funding. Poser will always be an acquired app to SM, and not a product of love. No real investment. It is why to this day it remains buggy, and outdated. Things could have been different, but it's too late now to make any real difference. Reminds me of the downfall of Sega, you cannot bounce back once consumer confidence has been lost. Anyways, back to Genesis 3 & V7:) Let's keep this topic about Genesis since it's a Daz forum:)

There were a couple of points in the Chris Creek interview that I found particularly interesting.

He said that the new board wanted to stop work on an in-house figure and "let the artists come up with one".

He actually had to fight the board to keep figure development going.

Incidentally, he also says, quite candidly, that they bought all the other software packages to keep them out of the hands of Curious Labs (they were Poser's owners at that time.)

Um, there is a saying about being three sides to any story: his side, DAZ's side, and the truth. I met Jim and co last year; one of  my jokes about dawn got tossed out and their was a room of laughter. Jim said "While that's funny, we don't want to trash Hivewire." And he went into the business at hand. I say that because DAZ has really been taking the high road when other companies chose to publicly bash, scratch faces and wig pull.

And DAZ3D takes the high road because they have a business to run and products to make. The management team was brought in to fix the issues the almost ran the company aground a few years ago and brought more innovation to the company since Dan and Chris left. And with Daz has done now, they are way better than a few years ago with Genesis 1, with no poser support and a broken website and all-over-the-place management. And Jim was the main one allaying PA fears during the website mess, and encouraging us to hold on. So Jim and the team has been doing a good job of bringing new tech, and guiding the vision of the company, products, look of the site, most importantly increasing sales of the company and PAs. I can't complain... What DAZ has done to improve my sales have been SO MUCH BETTER than with the the old guard. And any other the PAs will tell you the same thing.

So to me that interview reeks more of desperation than anything else, and is very unprofessional for an owner of a company to even do. So really I would view that interview with a grain of salt because this is the thing you should consider:  If you were pushed out, why is DAZ innovating more since you're gone, and why is your new venture barely a blip on the current landscape? Would seem it should have been the other way around if you really think about it.

I was emailed that perhaps someone here might be looking for some input. Whether you are or not, here it goes.

I find it interesting that you can assume what really took place with the events of DAZ from the outside looking in. I don't believe I saw you in any of the meetings that I was a part of. My side was the DAZ side and the truth of events from a factual standpoint. I'm just answering questions as to my experience having co-founded DAZ 3D with Dan Farr. I don't see how anyone outside of that can come up with factual information from their point of view, or can formulate from having heard from others down the line as to what happened with Dan and I.  You simply weren't a part of those business decisions, period.

You may want to consider your timing of events also. I left DAZ in November of 2009. It was a decision I made on my own. Revenue was up and we had had our best year to date. This was pre Genesis.

DAZ has partnered up with venture capital companies that have invested money in them. They'd better keep innovating!! That's a given. That is expected.

I find it interesting too that if HiveWire is such a blip that you're even spending the finger strength to craft a response to my interview. This is my point of view as to factual events that I was a part of.  Dirty laundry is purposely left out, and there is plenty of that.

If you'd care to discuss further, drop me an email through the HiveWire contact information. If you honestly have an interest in the past, we can review that together for clarity.

This thread has gotten decidedly interesting.   Can anybody give me an exact URL of where to find that interview?  I'd like to read it.  Yes, I'm fascinated about reading how the computer industry got where it is, and 3D Modelling programs is one aspect of it where it seems to be very difficult to come up with a viable business model since it is very resource intensive to keep those programs up to date.

I don't want to seem like I'm ignoring you but I was typing a quick response and my iPad locked and rebooted on me. We could get into it, but the bottom line is, how exactly is that going to grow your business, especially since you have forumite's now speculating that DAZ is investment run with purpose of raising value so they can sell the company? And they got that from your interview. Daz is watching and I suggest you clean that up quick. That's why I said the airing served no real purpose.

since I got several parties lined up today and the rest of the weekend, I'm going to bow out for now and get my party on because that has more value. I may add a comment later if this thread doesn't get locked.

This thread has gotten decidedly interesting.   Can anybody give me an exact URL of where to find that interview?  I'd like to read it.  Yes, I'm fascinated about reading how the computer industry got where it is, and 3D Modelling programs is one aspect of it where it seems to be very difficult to come up with a viable business model since it is very resource intensive to keep those programs up to date.

I hope I don't get slapped for the link, but here it is:

http://hivewire3d.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/it-s-about-the-art/contributing-artist-spotlight/162457-behind-the-curtain-christopher-creek-spotlight-interview

Got it thanks, you can remove it if you want.

We could get into it, but the bottom line is, how exactly is that going to grow your business, especially since you have forumite's now speculating that DAZ is investment run with purpose of raising value so they can sell the company? And they got that from your interview. Daz is watching and I suggest you clean that up quick. That's why I said the airing served no real purpose.

So your beef is that people have no reading comprehension and are speculating about the future of DAZ 3D based on accounts of what happened in the past? Speculation, so what. That's been my gripe with most of the Poser zealots and those who can't except change, or what business decisions are. To them change means a conspiracy is upon them.

The past is the past, the future is now:)

The past is the past, the future is now:)

(popping back in because this outdoor party is a wash out) Also there could be legal ramifications due to what was said. If what was said gives a negative impression of a entity especially when it is not true, then someone could be held liable. Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Genesis 3 - V7 rendered in Iray DS Iradium, clothing auto fitted from G2 Source, thanks Mec4D for the cool free outfit!

To the future!

First time a DAZ figure doesn't look like a DAZ figure.

Good work Daz.

You know, except for the hair, there really isn't much in that render that would distinguish it from an actual photograph.  IRAY is pretty amazing, and Genesis 3 indeed does pose better than 2, though Genesis 2 is no slouch in IRAY either.

Oh my, I'm behind the times. I still haven't used Victoria 5 & 6! Smith Micro doesn't create content. Poser only works with old characters created by other companies like DAZ3D. Poser wouldn't have lasted this long without outside companies creating content. I grew tired of Poser long ago.

Why are Poser users complaining about being insulted in a thread in the Poser forum?! This thread is in the DAZ Studio forum. People who hurl insults lack the intellect for a reasonable discussion.

This thread started out in the Poser forum and got moved by the moderator half way through.  Poser still has a strong community of people creating for it, regrettably none of them seem to be at Smith Micro.  I think with the stuff coming out with IRAY and V7 at this point, the issue of who's still actively developing their program has been answered.

Oh my, I'm behind the times. I still haven't used Victoria 5 & 6! Smith Micro doesn't create content. Poser only works with old characters created by other companies like DAZ3D. Poser wouldn't have lasted this long without outside companies creating content.

Just like how Autodesk doesn't create any significant content on their own, which is why no one would ever consider using Maya, Softimage or 3ds Max, amirite?
And I suppose "only works with old characters" is true, so long as one defines "old" to mean "more than a month ago".

There are many legit reasons to gripe about Poser. These...not so much.

I am fascinated why people seem to think that the company developing the software must also be providing the content to go with it, something I've seen people on both sides of the DAZ/Poser line seem to assume is some basic rule of the universe.

Just like how Autodesk doesn't create any significant content on their own, which is why no one would ever consider using Maya, Softimage or 3ds Max, amirite?
And I suppose "only works with old characters" is true, so long as one defines "old" to mean "more than a month ago".

There are many legit reasons to gripe about Poser. These...not so much.

I am fascinated why people seem to think that the company developing the software must also be providing the content to go with it, something I've seen people on both sides of the DAZ/Poser line seem to assume is some basic rule of the universe.

You forget that Autodesk users know how to create content by themselves while most Poser users don't. Even then, you might explain me how shop like Turbosquid exist and prosper.

This kind of behaviour usually comes from waning companies looking for a restructure. Falling revenues generally mean requirement to find immediate new markets, often abandoning the old in the process.
I.e. what happens during a major recession.  Which in the current global market is likely to occur with increasing frequency.  The global economy is no more sustainable than the modern standard of living and current overpopulation.  Eventually, all three will be overshot (look up "overshoot and collapse" theory for details, which covers far more categories than just industrialization and global economy)

@Razor42: the discussions about "industry standards" with derogatory quotes stems from the posters never having looked outside of their tiny Poser ghetto. If they had ever visited sites like GCSociety or fxguide, expanding their painfully limited vision of the world, they would not keep posting silly comments.
I have looked at them, and big industry in general, which is precisely why I use it in a derogatory fashion.  Companies, bands, etc. often lose sight of their roots when they go mainstream. 

This speculation is based entirely on the concept that the hobbyist will not want the most advanced and highest quality products and that they as hobbyist would prefer a lower level of potential than the "professional".
Uh, duh, of course they wouldn't.  Highest quality pro/industry standards = expensive and advanded thus user-unfriendly.  See my comments before (in numerous posts) about Blender/3DSMax/Maya/etc. users making the same complaints about Poser/DAZ that Linux/etc. users make about Windows and Mac, that they are "locked in" (limited features and customizability-- i.e. lower level of potential) because "BS, Linux/Blender/etc. are not hard/harder to use at all, in fact, they're much easier/more user-friendly than Windows/Poser/Mac/DAZ!" 
DAZ will be inundated by complaints by Pros that their store doesn't do this or that because "That's how Turbosquid, CGtrader, 3Delicious, and Autodesk do it!" or complaints that DAZ Studio doesn't do this or that because all the non-niche (e.g. Terragen, Pegasus3D) professional 3D apps do it. 

Go look on hivewire's website to see the interview. Interviewing owners is one thing; airing dirty laundry is another... Especially when you leave out important details.
You're talking about humans, here.  The ones who DON'T do this are the exception, not the rule.  Even more so for businesses-- dumping on the competition, or at the very least, only giving the pros of their side while refusing to even address-- let alone answer asked questions-- about the pros of the competition is just good business.  Hell, giving extreme examples, the most profitable thing (until they get caught) to do is engage in libel, no matter how far-fetched (e.g a competitor, back in the 80's, creating the rumor that Mexicans piss into each bottle of Corona, or each batch of the beer, or something along that line.) 

Just like how Autodesk doesn't create any significant content on their own, which is why no one would ever consider using Maya, Softimage or 3ds Max, amirite? No. You're not right, in fact you're so wrong you just divided by zero.

Comparing Poser to Autodesk's software is like comparing an old dusty VCR to the entertainment industry.

Your VCR is useless if you don't have any content to go with it.

I like Victoria 7 but I think DAZ (or SM??) should put out some assurance that DSON to Poser will be updated for her or let us know if that is not going to happen. As for the Hivewire interview it was interesting to get his perspective of how DAZ was formed.... I was wanting more info on how the Victoria model was created in the first place and how it became so popular....maybe he didn't focus on her since Dawn is a competitor figure. 

Just like how Autodesk doesn't create any significant content on their own, which is why no one would ever consider using Maya, Softimage or 3ds Max, amirite?
And I suppose "only works with old characters" is true, so long as one defines "old" to mean "more than a month ago".

There are many legit reasons to gripe about Poser. These...not so much.

I am fascinated why people seem to think that the company developing the software must also be providing the content to go with it, something I've seen people on both sides of the DAZ/Poser line seem to assume is some basic rule of the universe.

You forget that Autodesk users know how to create content by themselves while most Poser users don't. Even then, you might explain me how shop like Turbosquid exist and prosper.

No, not all of them do (or they don't have the time to create their own assets) which is why sites like Turbosquid exist and prosper and that was exactly my point: in theory, there's no reason why Smith-Micro needs provide any content for Poser, and quite honestly, they haven't provided much of it for years, even before there was a DAZ Studio, so why people focus on it to the exclusion of everything else is curious.

Just like how Autodesk doesn't create any significant content on their own, which is why no one would ever consider using Maya, Softimage or 3ds Max, amirite? No. You're not right, in fact you're so wrong you just divided by zero.

Comparing Poser to Autodesk's software is like comparing an old dusty VCR to the entertainment industry.

Your VCR is useless if you don't have any content to go with it.

That whooshing sound was my point going by. DAZ Studio is absolutely no different in that regard: delete all your content, and what are you going to use Studio for, hmm? My point was that just because the software company doesn't provide content does not mean by definition the software is useless or less valuable or whatever.

Think about your VCR analogy, or any related kind of technology: just because Samsung doesn't produce movies doesn't mean their product for watching or recording said movies is worthless. It just means there's a separate market to supply the content for them. No one says my TV on the wall is worthless because Samsung doesn't produce any television shows that appear on it. If people went around proclaiming that "Hey Samsung doesn't have any equivalent to Game of Thrones! Man, their TVs suck!", people would wonder what was wrong with them, and yet when people go around saying "Man, Smith-Micro has nothing like the DAZ Figures, so Poser sucks", people nod sagely even though those are two identical statements.

This isn't slagging Studio users: the Poser users who think that the most important thing that can appear in the next version is a new figure make the same mistake.

Complaining that a piece of software doesn't do X, or that another program can do Y better, or that X can't handle content Y can, that's fair and legit because you're comparing apples and apples.

you're so wrong you just divided by zero.

The only appropriate response to several posts in this page.

Poser needs outside people to create content. SM just doesn't have the depth of new content that DAZ3D provides. SM needs to provide the same cutting edge content that DAZ3D can. The division between SM and DAZ3D remains. Poser is being left behind due to lack of new cutting edge content.

Just like how Autodesk doesn't create any significant content on their own, which is why no one would ever consider using Maya, Softimage or 3ds Max, amirite? No. You're not right, in fact you're so wrong you just divided by zero.

Comparing Poser to Autodesk's software is like comparing an old dusty VCR to the entertainment industry.

Your VCR is useless if you don't have any content to go with it.

That whooshing sound was my point going by. DAZ Studio is absolutely no different in that regard: delete all your content, and what are you going to use Studio for, hmm? My point was that just because the software company doesn't provide content does not mean by definition the software is useless or less valuable or whatever.

Think about your VCR analogy, or any related kind of technology: just because Samsung doesn't produce movies doesn't mean their product for watching or recording said movies is worthless. It just means there's a separate market to supply the content for them. No one says my TV on the wall is worthless because Samsung doesn't produce any television shows that appear on it. If people went around proclaiming that "Hey Samsung doesn't have any equivalent to Game of Thrones! Man, their TVs suck!", people would wonder what was wrong with them, and yet when people go around saying "Man, Smith-Micro has nothing like the DAZ Figures, so Poser sucks", people nod sagely even though those are two identical statements.

This isn't slagging Studio users: the Poser users who think that the most important thing that can appear in the next version is a new figure make the same mistake.

Complaining that a piece of software doesn't do X, or that another program can do Y better, or that X can't handle content Y can, that's fair and legit because you're comparing apples and apples.

Hmm,  content wars are a common tomb stone marker for many a one time successful or startup venture. When you go buy a console do you get the one that is powered by a fusion generator with one game or the one that is still powerful but has 1000's of game choices including some that are considered the best games. To ignore the fact that content, whether created by the platform creator or not, is integral to the viability of a platform is just putting your head in the sand. So what you're saying is that it's more important that my car can do 3000 miles per hour which is far better than your car, the fact that it runs on Helium 3 is unimportant? DS is very different it's creators are also the largest content market in this sector and that is a very important difference. Okay and maybe it's not true to say Poser doesn't have new figures but maybe more accurate to say it doesn't have any modern figures.

I am not going to point anyone, but having seen these conversations many times in multiple forums, one feeling I always get is the general mindset among many poser users is not to blame SMS for the lack of quality figures, but many of them don't think twice to blame DAZ for the lack of figures in poser. Poser is not DAZ's software, it is Smith Micro Systems responsibility to provide good quality content for use in poser. If they cannot do that for whatever reason, then they need to create a facility, an environment for vendors and artists to provide that. If they cannot do that either, then they need to create a facility, an environment to adopt existing good quality figures in their software. If they can do none of that, then I just don't see how poser can cope in this market. 

Someone may say that this is exactly how poser thrived for so long and will continue to do so, but sorry 10 years ago things were different, there was no direct competition. Now things are different, there is a competitor and if you want to compete with that then you have to gear up and meet up with your customer's expectations. And that means adapting to newer demands, which in the case of SMS is creating/providing better quality content. They have not done it previously but now they have to, if they indeed wants to compete.

And competition is always best for us customers, we lose some but we win more. 

it is Smith Micro Systems responsibility to provide good quality content for use in poser. If they cannot do that for whatever reason, then they need to create a facility, an environment for vendors and artists to provide that. If they cannot do that either, then they need to create a facility, an environment to adopt existing good quality figures in their software. If they can do none of that, then I just don't see how poser can cope in this market. 

Thumb up.

it is Smith Micro Systems responsibility to provide good quality content for use in poser. If they cannot do that for whatever reason, then they need to create a facility, an environment for vendors and artists to provide that. If they cannot do that either, then they need to create a facility, an environment to adopt existing good quality figures in their software. If they can do none of that, then I just don't see how poser can cope in this market. 

Thumb up.

Two thumbs up.

I like Victoria 7 but I think DAZ (or SM??) should put out some assurance that DSON to Poser will be updated for her or let us know if that is not going to happen. As for the Hivewire interview it was interesting to get his perspective of how DAZ was formed.... I was wanting more info on how the Victoria model was created in the first place and how it became so popular....maybe he didn't focus on her since Dawn is a competitor figure. 

At this point the DSON importer support ends at Genesis 2. If there's anything to be done to get Genesis 3 working in Poser, it won't be DAZ that's doing it.

If I might get a shameless plug in, because I really like a lot of his stuff, Sixus1 (SM1) has really been working at providing a new figure for Poser, with a bunch of supporting content.  I almost wish I was using Poser so I could make use of it.  The figure is Scarlet if you haven't seen it

It's another one I haven't used myself, but I have a slew of his other figures (of the nightmare kind) and they are all high quality.  The model is getting five star reviews from about everybody, and while it will load in DAZ, it is not supported there.  Hey, this did start out as a Poser thread, right? :P

If I might get a shameless plug in, because I really like a lot of his stuff, Sixus1 (SM1) has really been working at providing a new figure for Poser, with a bunch of supporting content.  I almost wish I was using Poser so I could make use of it.  The figure is Scarlet if you haven't seen it

It's another one I haven't used myself, but I have a slew of his other figures (of the nightmare kind) and they are all high quality.  The model is getting five star reviews from about everybody, and while it will load in DAZ, it is not supported there.  Hey, this did start out as a Poser thread, right? :P

You can look at that here:  

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro?thread_id=2890543

(contains the usual figure fighting)

If I might get a shameless plug in, because I really like a lot of his stuff, Sixus1 (SM1) has really been working at providing a new figure for Poser, with a bunch of supporting content.  I almost wish I was using Poser so I could make use of it.  The figure is Scarlet if you haven't seen it

It's another one I haven't used myself, but I have a slew of his other figures (of the nightmare kind) and they are all high quality.  The model is getting five star reviews from about everybody, and while it will load in DAZ, it is not supported there.  Hey, this did start out as a Poser thread, right? :P

This is the DS forum. (Sorry I couldn't' resist. )

DAZ3D has given SM everything it needs to use the new Genesis figures. It's up the SM to implement the industry standard code into it's software. It almost came to be, but there was another company whispering sweet nothings at them and the ball dropped hard. :(

Yes they made an era in judgment.

Poser content, ie .cr2s, .pp2s, .pz2s, and so on, is still supported by DAZ Studio, and will continue to be. ;)

Yes they made an era in judgment.

**dzfire1102 teases and you spill the beans? Maybe market pressure will force SM to add Genesis support (the tri and quad)?
**