Yes, she has been around since 2006 .. quite awhile actually. But now, I see even here much more content being developed for Genesis 3 figure .... a lot. Time to use a new figure?

I guess you could wait for v2016 to see what (if anything) the new native content will be like. I'm not very optimistic though.

If you can do what you need to do with V4, why switch?

She doesn't work in Poser, so you would be looking at changing software - good luck with that, considering the state of Daz software.

I'd recommend taking a closer look. Content for G3F is rolling out here - notice how little is being released over at DAZ. While over there, notice how most of the content for G3F is just rehash of what was made for G2, G1, or V4. The only thing new for G3F is a fat chick. Then go visit the forums - G3F is getting a lot more pushback from customers.

The vendors are just making hay while the sun is shining - they have the DS userbase to themselves, nothing wrong with taking advantage of it.

There are many choices of figures available I would recommend giving them a look.

Technically, wait a year and V8 will be out along with G4. Pick a character you like, and use the character for as long as you like. I still use TY2 even though there's not a lot of content. I like the face on TY2 a lot and think it's a good look that's not too anime, and not quite too realistic. Terai Yuki 2 from CP which if you've never heard of is often referred to as TY2. There is no go with one specific figure. It's all up to you, the user. If you want to create clothing for figures that don't have a lot of content, there are free programs to help like Wings3d or Blender. Blender can import and even render (though you'd need to add bones to the figure for rigging if using the figure specifically in Blender).

Hi Before you go “all in” with the G3 Female” Be sure to check the thread in the Daz Commons titled: “ why I wont be buying anything else for the G3 Female”

As far as leaving V4.. Well.. as others have said you can Endure the vicissitudes of the various Kludges to get genesis figures into poser with any useful clothing and morphing options.

or Migrate ,at least partially, to Daz Studio It depends on how much you desire to have access to the latest Clothing,hair and utilities for the latest Figures

good feelings..i have quite a bit invested in V4 ..I've noticed the rehash ... on all DAZ figures. I have seen mostly new releases here for G3 .... reason I was wondering. Dawn seems to be decent.

The Hivewire figures are decent, and getting better. I still use all the figures from Posette on; mesh doesn't expire or spoil. Once I learn to rig and wieight map properly, I'll be retrofitting the older figures over time, as they are still quite useable.

Dave-So posted at 12:29PM Sun, 20 September 2015 - #4229642

good feelings..i have quite a bit invested in V4 ..I've noticed the rehash ... on all DAZ figures. I have seen mostly new releases here for G3 .... reason I was wondering. Dawn seems to be decent.

Why don't you take a look at Project E? I still use Aiko 3 as well.

[quietrob]

Why don't you take a look at Project E? I still use Aiko 3 as well.

small but important problem: not out yet

Or you could just go and be original and creative ;)

I use V4 but V7 is next level stuff compared to V4. As a poser user i would upgrade to a next level character if there would be one for poser and i guess i am not the only one.

V4 kept poser going but it is also the achilles heel of poser.

Genesis is made for DAZ Studio

Made for Poser

Dawn http://hivewire3d.com/dawn-special-edition.html/

Scarlet https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=109591

Michelle http://www.runtimedna.com/Michelle.html

hugz my V4 to my bosoms. And_ iiiiii_ will always love y_oooo_

RorrKonn posted at 9:33PM Sun, 20 September 2015 - #4229694

Genesis is made for DAZ Studio

Made for Poser

Dawn http://hivewire3d.com/dawn-special-edition.html/

Scarlet https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=109591

Michelle http://www.runtimedna.com/Michelle.html

and Koz and Kez.

next yoo be asking me to give up posette? Posie

Dale B posted at 9:35PM Sun, 20 September 2015 - #4229645

The Hivewire figures are decent, and getting better. I still use all the figures from Posette on; mesh doesn't expire or spoil. Once I learn to rig and wieight map properly, I'll be retrofitting the older figures over time, as they are still quite useable.

Someone (I can't remember who, my mind is a moldy piece of Swiss cheese) tried to weight map Sydney and found way too many issues with her mesh to make it viable. I would assume the same to be true with all the G2 (not Genesis) figures like Jessi and Olivia. Same mesh. While I still use mostly Poser natives (I tried V4 and didn't like her), I do have Dawn, Koz and Kez in my runtime, as well as Miki 4. And as was stated, if you like V4 and she is working for you, why change just for the sake of changing?

I dip in here from time to time, especially when some one forwards me a link to check out. Don't usually post because I don't want to come off as selling my work, or drawing negative attention. However, I would like to share my point of view for the future of Poser and DS content. DAZ created and owns the DSON format. DAZ has widened the chasm that exists between them and the "mother ship". DSON is still a weak and anemic way to get DAZ content into Poser and working well. G3 is made for Studio only really. Any DAZ figure going forward will not be made for Poser period! The HiveWire figure line up that is created in house, is made natively for BOTH Poser and DS. We currently create the only "core figures" that are made for both. Our aim is to create thee content bridge to both software programs. V4 is only alive because folks here continue to create supporting content for her. Advancements for V4 from DAZ are long gone, hence G3. That is their advancement.

HiveWire continues development on Dawn, and Dusk, and our Baby Luna, and even our Horse. When a Dawn 2 is developed (which won't be for quite a while) we will make sure that existing UVs, and maps, and morphs and characters that are currently available for Dawn SE will still work for Dawn 2. Unlike others that make their supportive artist audience and customers abandon their work to support yet another new figure line up that changes quickly, making folks scramble to support the latest release figures. HiveWire is here for you for the long haul. We will continue to develop the best quality that we can, and make improvements on our figures so you can support them going forward. The kind folks here that run Rendo have asked for our latest Dawn and Dusk because more artists are supporting them and submitting content, so Rendo wanted our latest to test against. We've been more then happy to respond in the positive and provide our Dawn and Dusk for testers here.

If you want to look at the future core figure content that will continue to support Poser and Studio, look to HiveWire. Give us input for improvements that you need to see, and we'll do our best to make them so you as an artist and customer have a creative team that listens to you, and will grow with you.

NO!!

It looks like Erogenesis' ProjektE figure will become my one and only Poser-figure once it is released. Untill then I'll keep playing and learning with DS and their G3 Figures.

Uhmmm, nah. I have too much V4 content which I have not exhausted or hasn't gone stale for me.

HiveWireChris .Thanks for every thing :)

I don't understand the scope of this thread. All the options have been extensively discussed in the last months and no new event has happened in the mean time; repeating the questions cannot lead to different answers.

The nearest in time event that might change the situation is the release of Poser which has to happen before year's end for its financial effects to take place in 2015.

About SMSI, from what I gathered in investors chats, they are is still sitting on enough cash to be beaten Cassius Clay-like for several (4+) quarters before reaching liquidity problems and SMSI top dogs haven't shown any inclination to step down/steer the firm into being bought by anybody (sarcastic comment of one of my fellow chatters: "by who?"). Personally, I think that no short term (4-5 quarters) societary changes are in order, even in the case NASDAQ delisting takes place (deadline March 8th, 2016 or, if they get a reprive, around early September 2016) or Dicker Investments closes its SMSI position.

On Daz front, they have no reason whatsoever to change their strategy; in the supremely unlikely possibility of SMSI selling their consumer products division, I feel that they might be slightly interested in Anime/Manga Studio since it would be the 2D complement to their 3D line, but definitely not in Poser (or in any other Smith Micro non-telco product/IP).

TL;DR: nothing new on the western front, so let's all enjoy the silence, broken only by crickets, that has descended on this forum.

rokket posted at 5:51AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229737

Dale B posted at 9:35PM Sun, 20 September 2015 - #4229645

The Hivewire figures are decent, and getting better. I still use all the figures from Posette on; mesh doesn't expire or spoil. Once I learn to rig and wieight map properly, I'll be retrofitting the older figures over time, as they are still quite useable.

Someone (I can't remember who, my mind is a moldy piece of Swiss cheese) tried to weight map Sydney and found way too many issues with her mesh to make it viable. I would assume the same to be true with all the G2 (not Genesis) figures like Jessi and Olivia. Same mesh. While I still use mostly Poser natives (I tried V4 and didn't like her), I do have Dawn, Koz and Kez in my runtime, as well as Miki 4. And as was stated, if you like V4 and she is working for you, why change just for the sake of changing?

I'm actually thinking about things like Dan Cortopassi's works. Natalia and Natrixa are my go to figures for fantasy work (no one has come close to the mermaid tails he made years ago, for instance; none of this body stocking knee bending nonsense. They are parenting figures and you hide the lower legs. Gill exhausts, morphable tail to change the locomotion form. geometry switching, etc. With some shader work, they would be incredible). All the V's are quite usable, and since the base skeleton is effectively identical since the days of P1 right on through today, motions created in iClone can work with basically any biped Poser can use.

And in many cases, breaking psychological addiction takes a long run up. The number of individuals who have 'It must come from XXX to be any good' is still large, and the product of massive ad campaigning. Despite the fact that each and every release from XXX took a year or more to become technically functional (at least as much as possible at the time). Nerd 3D is 'one of us' of long standing, and from the list of things released so far, it seems apparent he is taking this chance to address many pet peeves in this, our tool of choice. Teyon is rumored to be working on something new without 'committe-itis' which affected the quality of the figures last go around per reports.

Do I think there is a 'Vickie Killer' in the works? No. It's just mesh. A Resource. The Poser tool still gets along with a lot of CGI style programs, and it does so by using industry standards and text files that can be edited by anyone with the time and need. But sooner or later there will be a figure that 'replaces' it . . . if due to lack of availability if nothing else..

I have been following this argument ever since I first started with Poser 8 five years ago. I see a slight decline in the support for V4, but that doesn't mean you can't still find a few thousand slut outfits for her, dozens of temples and hundreds of swords. My whole take in it is do what makes YOU happy. I stick with the native Poser figures because of financial obligations outside of this hobby and a promise I made to my wife. I tried V4 when they gave her away at DAZ and she didn't really resonate with me like she does with so many others. So I will repeat what I said earlier: don't give her up if you still have a use for her. Don't run off and get the latest and greatest thing just because the lights are brighter and the bells and whistles are louder. New doesn't always mean better.

I like my V4 and have started scaling her. But i have high hopes for the new poser figure. I don't use the other native SM figures much I wouldn't be surprised if I will like the newest one. Can't wait to see her. Love esther

rokket posted at 9:03AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229737

Someone (I can't remember who, my mind is a moldy piece of Swiss cheese) tried to weight map Sydney and found way too many issues with her mesh to make it viable. I would assume the same to be true with all the G2 (not Genesis) figures like Jessi and Olivia. Same mesh.

Yes, there is an extra row of polygons in the torso of the G2 (Genesis 2) female figures that breaks the symmetry. Shvrdavid discovered this when he tried to weightmap it. As a result, the weightmaps can't be mirrored, which makes rigging it extraordinarily difficult, as each side must be rigged individually.

He created a 'G3' with the symmetry issues fixed, along with facial rigging like that of the Genesis 3, but years earlier. However, fixing the symmetry of course breaks all of the body morphs, so neither have ever been released.

I do have a copy of his weightmapped G2F...

OH NO, YOU DON'T!! I AIN'T GOING OUT WITHOUT A FIGHT!!

“Dawn SE will still work for Dawn 2. Unlike others that make their supportive artist audience and customers abandon their work to support yet another new figure line up that changes quickly, making folks scramble to support the latest release figures. HiveWire is here for you”

Hi, I am not sure to whom you refer in the above. But the “scramble” to Support the new figures is a natural market reaction for both venders and buyers, Do we not want people to “scramble” to support the new poser 11 figures when they arrive?

Venders are not “forced to abandon” our work When new figures are released We choose to, based on what figure platform we see in demand.

“If you want to look at the future core figure content that will continue to support Poser and Studio, look to HiveWire.”

May I impose upon you to clarify Dawns “Support” for Daz studio 4x

I only ask because of the following: When I Upgraded from DS 2.3 to DS 4.x I got the original unisex genesis 1 as well as the The Gen 2 Male and female and now the Gen3 female.

ALL of My legacy (poser6 era) V4/M4 Clothing and skin materials were supported by Gen 1& Gen 2 via Autofit and UV switching And ALL of my animated character motion files work on them as well.

Will Dawn offer me such a Painless transition?? Additionally ,as a Sci-Fi Enthusiast, I found that nearly All of the really cool creature/Alien morphs seemed to be for the Original genesis 1 figure. I was able to easily transfer them to the Gen2 Figures via a Plugin Called “GEN X” Similarly, I have been able to transfer all of my legacy V4/M4/Hiro,Aiko morphs to gen2 Via this same plugin. (not a free plugin BTW but worthwhile investment !!!)

Will Dawn offer me this support in Daz studio as well??

On the matter of the G3 Female, While a cursory read of the Daz forums would seem to indicate an effort is underway to make her compatible with previous genesis content, I frankly don’t care. This figure is a step backward as a Daz native Figure IMHO but a great advance if you plan to Develop for unity ( I have no such plans ATM)

But Does the existence of gen3 make gen2 or even gen 1 obsolete??…..nope.

But Does the existence of gen3 make gen2 or even gen 1 obsolete??…..nope.

Well if you're using DS then the whole thing is pretty clear cut. Use Genesis, adapt all other content to fit her, render in iRay and sleep happy.

It's when you're a Poser user or a cross app fan that things get a lot more troublesome. You can use V4 and live with the fact that almost all her content is obsolete and makes little use of current/next gen tech in DS or Poser. You can use Dawn and see her slowly fade into oblivion for lack of support and top tier content. You can use Poser natives or similar alternate figures and get even less support then Dawn. You can use DSON but get a figure that's a poor cousin of the one in DS. I suppose you could even go full 'commando mode' and start making your own sculpts or whatever but in that case you may as well move beyond Poser.

Or in short, what do you do if you want a modern, well supported figure but don't want to move to DS ?

ghonma posted at 11:42AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229851

But Does the existence of gen3 make gen2 or even gen 1 obsolete??…..nope.

Well if you're using DS then the whole thing is pretty clear cut. Use Genesis, adapt all other content to fit her, render in iRay and sleep happy.

It's when you're a Poser user or a cross app fan that things get a lot more troublesome. You can use V4 and live with the fact that almost all her content is obsolete and makes little use of current/next gen tech in DS or Poser. You can use Dawn and see her slowly fade into oblivion for lack of support and top tier content. You can use Poser natives or similar alternate figures and get even less support then Dawn. You can use DSON but get a figure that's a poor cousin of the one in DS. I suppose you could even go full 'commando mode' and start making your own sculpts or whatever but in that case you may as well move beyond Poser.

Or in short, what do you do if you want a modern, well supported figure but don't want to move to DS ?

That is a good altough frustrating question. I am leaning to starting using DS.

I have been using poser since poser 2, if i make the switch to DS it wil not be happily. I love poser as a software but this lack of new fresh quality figures is something that i can no longer support. OK there is DAWN and other figures and i have a lot of respect for the people responsible for making these figures. But as i said V7 is next level stuff.

Since there are a lot of items on the marketplace for V7 G3 i think it is safe to say that there is a growing user base.

This is not a good thing for poser.

WandW Genesis 2 is symmetrical

wolf359 posted at 11:43AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229637

Hi Before you go “all in” with the G3 Female” Be sure to check the thread in the Daz Commons titled: “ why I wont be buying anything else for the G3 Female”

As far as leaving V4.. Well.. as others have said you can Endure the vicissitudes of the various Kludges to get genesis figures into poser with any useful clothing and morphing options.

or Migrate ,at least partially, to Daz Studio It depends on how much you desire to have access to the latest Clothing,hair and utilities for the latest Figures

I want to make a joke about Kludge and coffee like bear claws and coffee... but must refrain my self.... failing so much... :)

RorrKonn posted at 11:50AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229860

WandW Genesis 2 is symmetrical

She's referring to Smith Micro's G2s. The shortened term G2 is also used for Genesis 2 even though they are different figures. And also a movie with John Saxon. I have to go eat something, otherwise I'll keep going off on wild tangents.... :)

Kazam561 posted at 1:34PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229863

RorrKonn posted at 11:50AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229860

WandW Genesis 2 is symmetrical

She's referring to Smith Micro's G2s. The shortened term G2 is also used for Genesis 2 even though they are different figures. And also a movie with John Saxon. I have to go eat something, otherwise I'll keep going off on wild tangents.... :)

Yes; I was thinking "Not Genesis 2" and left out the 'Not'..

WandW posted at 1:04PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229879

Kazam561 posted at 1:34PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229863

RorrKonn posted at 11:50AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229860

WandW Genesis 2 is symmetrical

She's referring to Smith Micro's G2s. The shortened term G2 is also used for Genesis 2 even though they are different figures. And also a movie with John Saxon. I have to go eat something, otherwise I'll keep going off on wild tangents.... :)

Yes; I was thinking "Not Genesis 2" and left out the 'Not'..

I'm also wrong about Genesis 2 the movie with John Saxon. It's Alex Cord.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064366/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

Saxon's in Planet Earth which used many of the same scenes and props. I still haven't eaten breakfast and it's already lunch time :(

wolf359 posted at 2:16PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229824

May I impose upon you to clarify Dawns “Support” for Daz studio 4x

Not quite sure if this is what you're asking, but when you buy Dawn SE, you get both a Native Poser version (requires Poser 9+) and a Native DAZ Studio version (requires DAZ Studio 4.6) which has both 3Delight and Iray material presets. Clothing from other figures can be converted by creating a clone (there's a thread with instructions on doing this at HiveWire) or by using something like the Standalone version of PhilC's Wardrobe Wizard. Does that help?

WandW posted at 6:46PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229879

Kazam561 posted at 1:34PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229863

RorrKonn posted at 11:50AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229860

WandW Genesis 2 is symmetrical

She's referring to Smith Micro's G2s. The shortened term G2 is also used for Genesis 2 even though they are different figures. And also a movie with John Saxon. I have to go eat something, otherwise I'll keep going off on wild tangents.... :)

Yes; I was thinking "Not Genesis 2" and left out the 'Not'..

No harm ,no foul ,not like my grammar would impress a English teacher. ;)

I've looked at all the Character meshes in Pro 14.& I've looked at DAZ Characters.

I really think we have more then enough character meshes to last us as long as there's a DAZ Poser.

but we keep reinventing the wheel and making more n more new characters from scratch.

DAZ's V5 is the last mesh they would have ever needed.maybe change the rigging with new tech or for different app's.but the mesh is fine.

Roxie is a fine mesh and Poser would never need another mesh. but Poser has always released a new mesh with the net version.

WandW posted at 10:26PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229789

rokket posted at 9:03AM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229737

Someone (I can't remember who, my mind is a moldy piece of Swiss cheese) tried to weight map Sydney and found way too many issues with her mesh to make it viable. I would assume the same to be true with all the G2 (not Genesis) figures like Jessi and Olivia. Same mesh.

Yes, there is an extra row of polygons in the torso of the G2 (Genesis 2) female figures that breaks the symmetry. Shvrdavid discovered this when he tried to weightmap it. As a result, the weightmaps can't be mirrored, which makes rigging it extraordinarily difficult, as each side must be rigged individually.

He created a 'G3' with the symmetry issues fixed, along with facial rigging like that of the Genesis 3, but years earlier. However, fixing the symmetry of course breaks all of the body morphs, so neither have ever been released.

I do have a copy of his weightmapped G2F...

It is good to see that someone still uses her, lol.. It is ironic thou. Lots of people told me years ago that characters with lots of bones would never fly... I have been rigging them that way for years, and heard that from more people than I can remember. Now people embrace characters with lots of bones, and it is nothing new by any means.

There is a way to mirror the mapping when rigging non symmetrical wire frames using scripts, but it breaks far to easily. Accidentally mirror the rigging with Posers built in commands and it is all over....

I last used Poser in 2002. Just last week I installed Poser Pro 2014 and started playing around with it again. Then I found an old hard drive in a box in the back of the closet from the computer I had back then. On that hard drive I found the install files for Victoria 2 (and essentials) and Michael 2 (and essentials). So I installed them, and guess what? They work fine in Poser Pro 2014. So for me, V4 would be an upgrade. But since I'm mostly interested in toon rendering (graphic novel style) V2 is just as good as V4 for my purposes, and probably as good as anything newer.

So I guess it really depends on what your artistic goals are.

HiveWireChris posted at 10:50AM Tue, 22 September 2015 - #4229741

HiveWire continues development on Dawn, and Dusk, and our Baby Luna, and even our Horse. When a Dawn 2 is developed (which won't be for quite a while) we will make sure that existing UVs, and maps, and morphs and characters that are currently available for Dawn SE will still work for Dawn 2. Unlike others that make their supportive artist audience and customers abandon their work to support yet another new figure line up that changes quickly, making folks scramble to support the latest release figures. HiveWire is here for you for the long haul. We will continue to develop the best quality that we can, and make improvements on our figures so you can support them going forward. The kind folks here that run Rendo have asked for our latest Dawn and Dusk because more artists are supporting them and submitting content, so Rendo wanted our latest to test against. We've been more then happy to respond in the positive and provide our Dawn and Dusk for testers here.

Hi Chris, surprised to see this info here rather than at HW3D but maybe I missed it. I've been curious about your plans going forward. Glad to hear that the next version of your figures will support current content. Using the same UVs and mesh for all your current human figures has been beneficial to me as a user, both financially and as far as workflow. Knowing I can essentially update to the new figures when they arrive, repurposing my content, without jumping through hoops gives me more confidence in investing time and money in Dawn, Dusk, and Luna.

shvrdavid posted at 7:38PM Tue, 22 September 2015 - #4230000

[...] There is a way to mirror the mapping when rigging non symmetrical wire frames using scripts, but it breaks far to easily. Accidentally mirror the rigging with Posers built in commands and it is all over....

I've always wondered why the "mirror" function in the POSE room comprises the unnecessary, "danger-of-clicking-the-wrong-button", and annoying request to mirror the joint setup as well.

• You see, in the Pose Room, all I want to do is mirror A POSE.
• If I want to mirror joint setups, I go to the SETUP room, or use the Joint Editor, don't I?

So please SKIP this nag box unless I'm in the Setup Room, or have the Joint Editor Window open. In it's current state it's just a nuisance, and has a large potential of inadvertently destroying a figure's setup / rig.

Thank you

-Peter-

P.S.: I've reposted this message in the "PP2016 wishlist" thread at the other "R..." forum - Maybe it catches the attention of someone in charge... -P-

shvrdavid posted at 1:43PM Tue, 22 September 2015 - #4230000

It is good to see that someone still uses her, lol.. It is ironic thou. Lots of people told me years ago that characters with lots of bones would never fly... I have been rigging them that way for years, and heard that from more people than I can remember. Now people embrace characters with lots of bones, and it is nothing new by any means.

There is a way to mirror the mapping when rigging non symmetrical wire frames using scripts, but it breaks far to easily. Accidentally mirror the rigging with Posers built in commands and it is all over....

Look at the change in horsepower. When Poser 7 was released, I was running a PowerMac running at 773Mhz with 1.5Gb of memory. Now I have a 6 year old computer (Mac Pro flashed 5,1) with 8 cores running at 2.26Ghz & 32Gb of ram. Makes a difference in what one can do.

The SM G2 figures are my goto figures. (I luv Jessi, Miki 2, Olivia, & Sydney) In my stories, about 70% of the main characters are SM figures. - They are realistically sized & proportioned figures that don't look anything like V4. The fact that I have more figures for Sydney & company than were ever released for genesis 2 series over at DAZ amuses me to no end.

What would I need to do to get a copy of that weight mapped Sydney?

I'd like to use V7 and V7 content without the need for DSON.

trepleen posted at 2:43AM Sat, 03 October 2015 - #4232066

I'd like to use V7 and V7 content without the need for DSON.

there is no V7 DSON .V7 does not work in Poser. The days of DAZ being a Poser vender is coming to a end.

Um, just to say, the reason to look beyond V4 is liking to buy content at all. DAZ doesn't want to support Poser. Rendo has much less than 1/2 the inventory DAZ does because of their clearance policy, so older products are disappearing. Rendo PTB are pushing DS and G3 support. At some point they're probably going to stop accepting V4 content. Even if most of the Poser community stays on V4, there just won't be enough people buying the same V4 content for V4 products to sell but so well. HiveWire and RDNA are the only brokerages currently making an effort to support Poser, and even RDNA is promoting G3 products pretty damn hard.

Maybe I'm misreading things, but most posts seem to view supporting a non-DAZ figure as some sort of kindness or charity to the figure creator. Thing is, we invested millions in the Vicky line to make it what it is today. We did that just to get V4 to what she is almost a full decade after her release. No single creator is going to be able to match all that money and all that community support before anyone else buys in.

V1 was lower quality than anything I've seen in a long time, and it's not as if that was only due to technological limitations. It wasn't her resolution, it was her shape. Computers had no problem handling all the morphs that V2 added. Her mapping could actually have been more efficient, and certainly could have had less stretching. And both she and V2 were very expensive. But instead of focusing on her weaknesses, the community focused on her possibilities. And on that community support, DAZ built a very lucrative figure-based content monopoly.

Now they're leaving the Poser community behind, which was predictable from the moment they made DS. There's perfectly good figures to start supporting right now, like Dawn and Dusk. But people keep saying they're going to wait until they have the kind of support the fourth version of a figure got in their 10th year. Thing is, no figure will have that level of support without at least half as much community investment to get it there.

Brokerages and vendors can survive just selling DS content, or other kinds of 3D content altogether. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that Poser can survive selling outside the content community. I certainly saw more people using Poser outside of these forums and galleries than inside, and that was only watching one class in one department at one university. They certainly have options to grow outside of this content community, and I'm very sure it would be possible, if difficult, to do.

The only people I see without many choices if the community doesn't support a non-DAZ figure are Poser customers who want new content. Vendors can't support V4 indefinitely, even if they want to, because brokerages can't. There's just not enough money in making a few more things for a figure that's got a ton of content and just as many limitations. Even freebies will be hit hard if all the vendors switch to DS, because a whole lot of the freebies are made by vendors. So unless you do want to make all your own content (a perfectly viable, but usually rare, option) or switch to DS (which I'd expect anyone willing to have done already), you need a non-DAZ figure to get community and brokerage support.

Which isn't going to happen if we sit back and wait for someone (or even a whole company of someones) to achieve the same thing that took the whole community years of work, millions of dollars, and several revisions to achieve. We're at what I call a Tetris point. Not making a decision is making a decision.

Wolf359, why do you still post here? For years now, all you've said in each post, over and over, is how terrible Poser and its figures are, and how you don't use it any more. I'm very sure I first saw you say this years ago now. By your own account you don't use Poser, and your posts never involve any solutions beyond not using Poser any more. You've voiced your opinion about Poser at least hundreds of times now. We all know it. You've gotten it across. And it's cool that you don't like Poser, and have found tools that suit you and your needs. But this is a Poser forum, not a DS forum or a C4D forum. This forum is for Poser users who want to help other Poser users. What are you trying to achieve? I genuinely don't understand what you want, and why you keep posting the same negative message all over the Poser forums. Wouldn't you rather go to the forums for the software you do use and post how great it is? Why do keep telling us why you hate the software we use?

kobaltkween posted at 12:03AM Sun, 04 October 2015 - #4232078

...

Wolf359, why do you still post here? For years now, all you've said in each post, over and over, is how terrible Poser and its figures are, and how you don't use it any more. I'm very sure I first saw you say this years ago now. By your own account you don't use Poser, and your posts never involve any solutions beyond not using Poser any more. You've voiced your opinion about Poser at least hundreds of times now. We all know it. You've gotten it across. And it's cool that you don't like Poser, and have found tools that suit you and your needs. But this is a Poser forum, not a DS forum or a C4D forum. This forum is for Poser users who want to help other Poser users. What are you trying to achieve? I genuinely don't understand what you want, and why you keep posting the same negative message all over the Poser forums. Wouldn't you rather go to the forums for the software you do use and post how great it is? Why do keep telling us why you hate the software we use?

Fair question.

Wolf?

I had used V4 since she came out, buying ALL the updating Pretty V4 morph/fix add ons to make her posed body work/bend "right" .... and then I tried out Dawn (the first one) and I was SOLD... and now especially with Dawn SE, I just can't go back to my beloved V4.... I did bring V4 into my scene one day...and tried again to pose her (my fully loaded V4)...and well... I just "can't go back"... so yes, I've let her go after using Dawn for about a year.... I do buy V4 maps BECAUSE I CAN TRANSFORM THEM TO DAWN.... but meanwhile I just looked at my Dawn Runtime (aka Hivewire runtime) and it's already up to a respectable 21 GIGS! and I've got cross dresser to help me get my lovely V4 closet over to Dawn....

The thing is Dawn BENDS SOOOO WELL WITHOUT DISTORTION!!! and now Dusk has already far outshined M4 in the bending/posing department... but that's probably another thread...

I've been a dedicated V4 only user for soooo long, and actually was leery of Dawn...but she sold herself to me (oh that sounds funny! LOL!) I should say PROVED herself....

Now if Rendo merchants would only stop pushing Genesis products in my face, I might shop her more (already bought all the Dawn stuff sold her that I could get my hands on!!) So I check in here every few days, and then go away empty handed most of the time...

'Rosity depends on the 'Rosity marketplace, not Poser, Kobaltkween. ‘Rosity hasn’t gone over 3,000 users since the site redesign, down about 50% – make of it what you will.

DS is designed to maximize vendor income, not to preserve customer investment. That is why storefronts and vendors are pushing g3. Pay more; get less (from the customer's perspective). Long term, it will be interesting to see if more than 1 storefront can live off the DS user base. Any of you realize just how few people sell over at DAZ on a regular basis? Not as many as you might think.

kobaltkween posted at 1:06PM Sat, 03 October 2015 - #4232078

Um, just to say, the reason to look beyond V4 is liking to buy content at all.

Clothing has been decoupled from figures for about a decade now (1st with Wardrobe Wizard, then Xdresser, now the Fitting Room). It used to require an intermediate knowledge of Poser, but now, a rank beginner can do it. This means the customer doesn't actually have to care about who the product was made for originally. (Yes, I know - no one has ever bought any copy of Poser 5 or later.)

Those that have left Poser 4 conventions behind have more choices than vendors like. V4 is going to get vaulted soon – DAZ Soon - note that nothing at DAZ comes with Poser Companion Files anymore - Not even content built for g2 (which Poser can use).

Maybe I'm misreading things, but most posts seem to view supporting a non-DAZ figure as some sort of kindness or charity to the figure creator.

You are. Many vendors were adamant that they would not build for non-V4 figures and customers got the message loud and clear. Why should they invest in a figure that the vendors are hell bent on not supporting? This attitude is the stated reason as to why SM added the fitting room. Yet another missed opportunity for vendors to prepare for A.V4. (After Vicky 4). Then there were the DAZ vendors that the moderators here allowed to run wild in the Poser forums.

The only people I see without many choices if the community doesn't support a non-DAZ figure are Poser customers who want new content.

Look closer. The people that are losing choices are vendors/customers that won't let go of a Poser 4 workflow. Those of us who have done so have choices.

I am the very model of the modern Poser Pro 2014 user. I share clothing, hair & skin textures between all of my characters, depending on my needs, not the whim of a vendor. I really don't think you guys realize how much later versions of Poser change how we use Poser. I never have to worry about getting clothing on ANY figure due to the fitting room, and the commands of Morphs to Single Dial & Copy Morphs From command. (Yes, I know SM has never sold a single copy of Poser Pro.)

Here is an associated question - if a customer is too cheap to spend money for a copy of Poser 9 or later, just how much do you think they are paying for any of your products?

Which isn't going to happen if we sit back and wait for someone (or even a whole company of someones) to achieve the same thing that took the whole community years of work, millions of dollars, and several revisions to achieve.

What is this "We" stuff? We have chosen - the problem is that Poser users have more than 1 choice of figures - You seem to be expecting us to conform what makes things easiest for you. (That may not be what you meant, but that is how it is coming across.) Those days are gone, and they aren't coming back.

Let me give you an example. There is a new male figure over at RDNA (EF-Steve). If vendors supports him, great. if not, by the end of the month, he will have access to all of my male clothing (20Gb+).

Wolf359, why do you still post here?

Wolf359 posts here for the same reason DAZ vendors like Zev0 & Terrance (aka Male3dia) post here. If they were confident in their choices, they would be in the Cinema3d and DS forums, respectively.

ssgbryan posted at 9:34PM Sat, 03 October 2015 - #4232181

'Rosity depends on the 'Rosity marketplace, not Poser, Kobaltkween. ‘Rosity hasn’t gone over 3,000 users since the site redesign, down about 50% – make of it what you will.

DS is designed to maximize vendor income, not to preserve customer investment. That is why storefronts and vendors are pushing g3. Pay more; get less (from the customer's perspective). Long term, it will be interesting to see if more than 1 storefront can live off the DS user base. Any of you realize just how few people sell over at DAZ on a regular basis? Not as many as you might think.

kobaltkween posted at 1:06PM Sat, 03 October 2015 - #4232078

Um, just to say, the reason to look beyond V4 is liking to buy content at all.

Clothing has been decoupled from figures for about a decade now (1st with Wardrobe Wizard, then Xdresser, now the Fitting Room). It used to require an intermediate knowledge of Poser, but now, a rank beginner can do it. This means the customer doesn't actually have to care about who the product was made for originally. (Yes, I know - no one has ever bought any copy of Poser 5 or later.)

Those that have left Poser 4 conventions behind have more choices than vendors like. V4 is going to get vaulted soon – DAZ Soon - note that nothing at DAZ comes with Poser Companion Files anymore - Not even content built for g2 (which Poser can use).

Maybe I'm misreading things, but most posts seem to view supporting a non-DAZ figure as some sort of kindness or charity to the figure creator.

You are. Many vendors were adamant that they would not build for non-V4 figures and customers got the message loud and clear. Why should they invest in a figure that the vendors are hell bent on not supporting? This attitude is the stated reason as to why SM added the fitting room. Yet another missed opportunity for vendors to prepare for A.V4. (After Vicky 4). Then there were the DAZ vendors that the moderators here allowed to run wild in the Poser forums.

The only people I see without many choices if the community doesn't support a non-DAZ figure are Poser customers who want new content.

Look closer. The people that are losing choices are vendors/customers that won't let go of a Poser 4 workflow. Those of us who have done so have choices.

I am the very model of the modern Poser Pro 2014 user. I share clothing, hair & skin textures between all of my characters, depending on my needs, not the whim of a vendor. I really don't think you guys realize how much later versions of Poser change how we use Poser. I never have to worry about getting clothing on ANY figure due to the fitting room, and the commands of Morphs to Single Dial & Copy Morphs From command. (Yes, I know SM has never sold a single copy of Poser Pro.)

Here is an associated question - if a customer is too cheap to spend money for a copy of Poser 9 or later, just how much do you think they are paying for any of your products?

Which isn't going to happen if we sit back and wait for someone (or even a whole company of someones) to achieve the same thing that took the whole community years of work, millions of dollars, and several revisions to achieve.

What is this "We" stuff? We have chosen - the problem is that Poser users have more than 1 choice of figures - You seem to be expecting us to conform what makes things easiest for you. (That may not be what you meant, but that is how it is coming across.) Those days are gone, and they aren't coming back.

Let me give you an example. There is a new male figure over at RDNA (EF-Steve). If vendors supports him, great. if not, by the end of the month, he will have access to all of my male clothing (20Gb+).

Wolf359, why do you still post here?

Wolf359 posts here for the same reason DAZ vendors like Zev0 & Terrance (aka Male3dia) post here. If they were confident in their choices, they would be in the Cinema3d and DS forums, respectively.

And if you were actually confident in the far fetched speculation posts, you wouldn't have to bring my name into this convo now would you?

What does calling people out do with the topic anyway?

Please keep the topic to V4, and not the personal attacks. Thank you.

Note: Mods, I would click report button, but I see ya'll ain't been your job from the other times I've clicked it. Please steer the convo back please.

Also since you got me to post, for those complaining about the amount of DS items coming out. It's very simple: Supply and demand. You want more items, you really need to start buying Poser stuff. And that means supporting another figure with your funds and giving up your vast V4 libraries because companies make no money from you reusing items with conversion tools and utilities. Storefronts have to keep their lights on and webspace so you can post in their forums, and it looks like the DS users are willing to pay. You want to turn the tide, support the newer figures.