Here's probably the best I have seen so far of her mug. The expression looks pretty good. By ken1171

and another that I won't comment on by the same artist:

Certainly lot better images than we had to go by. Eyes are not too untidy either

What people do not understand in this community (and mommy-knows-best moderators reinforce this non-understanding) is that there is a deep difference between this-is-shit and this-is-shift-because-... : the first is trolling (and should be shot down), the second is criticism (and should be meditated upon).

Anyway, in the RDNA thread it was written that Teyon is still working on morphs so it is not the final state but an advanced work-in-progress situation. Personally, I feel that her face is kinda squashed on Poser z-axis (especially the nose area) and the neck appears to be too long, but these are problems that can be fixed in minutes with some morphs.

Razor42 posted at 12:04PM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237182

Here's probably the best I have seen so far of her mug. The expression looks pretty good. By ken1171

and another that I won't comment on by the same artist:

Nice , but her lips look wromg. The upper lip peak is weird. And she still seems to have a strong underbite.

chaecuna posted at 1:16AM Sat, 07 November 2015 - #4237187

What people do not understand in this community (and mommy-knows-best moderators reinforce this non-understanding) is that there is a deep difference between this-is-shit and this-is-shift-because-... : the first is trolling (and should be shot down), the second is criticism (and should be meditated upon).

Anyway, in the RDNA thread it was written that Teyon is still working on morphs so it is not the final state but an advanced work-in-progress situation. Personally, I feel that her face is kinda squashed on Poser z-axis (especially the nose area) and the neck appears to be too long, but these are problems that can be fixed in minutes with some morphs.

I don't think customers are required by any unwritten law to lay down constructive feedback to help a business make a better product to sell them, are they? That's what focus groups are for, most companies pay these groups for that kind of feedback. It's generally well within a consumer's rights to say "It doesn't appeal to me, I won't be purchasing it" or even to say nothing at all and just leave, without needing to validate their opinion with a reason. It's hardly trolling to do likewise on the internet.

Generally though if I find something I have purchased has some "shift" on it, I will take it back and demand a full refund. Usually showing the shift to the salesman doesn't require further explanation of why I am returning the goods, he can usually connect the dots himself/herself :P

You seem to confusing artistic critique with consumer critique to be honest.

Actually looking over this thread most critics have been fairly constructive in their views here.

I am actually looking forward to seeing a more finalised version of Pauline with any required shifts being implemented. Something like the lip issue should definitely be adjusted on the base and not be a fixer morph though.

Very disappointing figure. It's quite easy to see why the Genesis figures are the way to go.

The people that find her 'not ideal femenine' are correct. She is a base figure after all, not a 'render me right out of the box' finished character, despite arguments to the contrary. A quick look at how the handles are set up for her face and seeing how simple major adjustments are would be enough to convince anyone that cares to look of that fact.

That aside. my main concerns about her are the parts of her body that we have not seen. And seriously, what is up with that heel?

I have to admit, based on these renders, that I don't like the look of her upper lip (it's missing that little indentation under the septum). It looks too much like a cartoon. But other than that she looks OK.

She really does have a hip. Yay !!! Pretty unusual for a Poser-Figure. Poser-Figures usually tend to look emaciated androgyn.

where you get this shiny beaty texture? I guess that she comes from westen. g2,g3,g2+g3 clone,which is the same,no morph.

wheatpenny posted at 4:37PM Sat, 07 November 2015 - #4237233

I have to admit, based on these renders, that I don't like the look of her upper lip (it's missing that little indentation under the septum). It looks too much like a cartoon. But other than that she looks OK.

Lip bits been killing me as well but I think it as stated there is more to go before finalized surely it will be one of the additions, be a PITA to have to photoshop that in each and every time.

My reaction to the first pictures was "Wow, is it really 2005 again?" I mean it looks so vintage Poserish, particularly when you compare it with the V6 and V7 renders. I never got to whether she's a good looking model of a woman, she looks like a cartoon. So count me in the "um, guys, be careful with your promo shots, even of beta's" camp.

Looking at the later renders of her helps in that regard. But morphs can fix most stuff, I'd be interested in knowing how she bends, and what kind of expressions she is capable of. And of course you can't tell that from any of the renders in this thread. There certainly isn't anything there that would drive me straight back to Poser, and my last copy is 2010. Meh, it's still a beta though, so it has time.

diogenese19348 posted at 12:05AM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237538

My reaction to the first pictures was "Wow, is it really 2005 again?" I mean it looks so vintage Poserish, particularly when you compare it with the V6 and V7 renders. I never got to whether she's a good looking model of a woman, she looks like a cartoon. So count me in the "um, guys, be careful with your promo shots, even of beta's" camp.

Looking at the later renders of her helps in that regard. But morphs can fix most stuff, I'd be interested in knowing how she bends, and what kind of expressions she is capable of. And of course you can't tell that from any of the renders in this thread. There certainly isn't anything there that would drive me straight back to Poser, and my last copy is 2010. Meh, it's still a beta though, so it has time.

Well with all the fanfare from SM saying that the new version of Poser is releasing soon, it seems like the rigging is getting a rush job with weightmaps getting adjustments even while preview pics are being shown. From a content developer point of view, you simply can't keep changing the rigging and setup on a figure you are wanting people to work on so soon to release, unless you're not releasing the figures with the program. You definitely can't change rigging and weightmaps on content developers making clothing; that will make them mad if they have to keep redoing the rigging.

With all the public redos and fixes, it would seem either the content is being rushed out the door, or the testers aren't doing a thorough job of catching these issues before the public sees them, in addition to people being hostile to people pointing out the issues. Either scenario doesn't inspire confidence in making content for the figure, and really the stuff being shown needs to be solid before showing it to the public. The content and the renders really do play a part in getting people on board with the software and so far only the primitives rendered by Bagginsbill shows any promise for the release. Everything else looks really amateurish and that's not a good thing for competition.

Yeah pretty much. But that is what happens when you do not have proper structures in place.... Anyways....Good luck to them.

Well ,I shall not mince words.

I predict EPIC FAIL!!

This is my personal extrapolation based on Empiracal Data. The poser Loyalist will make a valiant effort and put on a brave public face.

There MAY even be a Core group of Die hards that will claim the new figures are awesome not matter the unfolding Disaster.

There will be the usual "hey look what I made for (XXXXX)" threads that will soon fade into the abyss of the rosity forum archives.

Just as Pauline& Paul take their place in the ever growing rubbish bin of poser figure history.

They >>>DONT LOOK HUMAN!!!.<<< Sorry but its the truth and they will Fail $$Commercially$.

bye.

Agreed with all you have said. I won't say they are rubbish (a bit harsh lol), but compared to G3? Not good enough in my opinion.

Sigh.....Same pattern, just a different figure, just a different year.....They really failed to realize how important this was for them. I do not see bulk of vendors jumping on board. The ones I have spoken to are not really impressed by what they have seen. At best, Dawn and Dusk support, if they are lucky, unless something magical changes opinions of them.

wolf359 posted at 5:50PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237641

I predict EPIC FAIL!!

Well, this time Poser vendors and users know what the alternative is: If P11 fails, Poser fails. If Poser fails, vendors can go to work to the nearest fast food and users have no alternative to submit to DAZ. Fear is a great motivator and, in fact, I noticed a different tone in many posts around the forums, a kind of calm, the ships-have-burned-to-ashes-we-can-only-go-forward attitude.

As a Studio user (at least for the time being) I send my most heartfelt wishes to success to P11, Paul and Pauline. Without any kind of competition, DAZ move to the cloud nightmare will be even faster than what is already happening.

Everyone prematurely decrying the Poser 11 figures should just relax. I realize that's not the general attitude of the forums here at Renderosity. People here tend to be of the Chicken Little variety when something they don't like is happening around their pet software, while they watch with relish when something they can make out to be a disaster happens in the camp of the Others.

The fact is that we have not seen enough about the Poser 11 figures to say whether they will be good or bad, and anyone making decisions (pro or con) on what has been shown publicly is the worst kind of consumer. People are prematurely setting their hair on fire or celebrating about the DAZ Connect thing as well depending on which camp they fall into, which is equally silly. Personally, I want the best for both Poser and DAZ Studio. Competition between them is good for us, the end users and content creators.

Also note that for anyone capable of making complete figures, if Pauline and Paul are as bad as some people here seem to be not so secretly hoping, it presents an opportunity for a windfall. Make the de facto base figures for Poser 11 and make a fortune.

The fact is that we have not seen enough about the Poser 11 figures to say whether they will be good or bad, and anyone making decisions (pro or con) on what has been shown publicly is the worst kind of consumer.

Some of us have seen enough. What you are saying is that somebody who auditions for Idols should get 5 chances to impress the judges because they didn't nail it the first time? Sorry, it does not work like that. You need to bring it first time. Worst type of consumer? Sorry, but that is the majority of consumers. Same thing in every aspect of life. Want to get a job, you better impress in that interview or guess what, they will hire somebody else who does. Welcome to the real world. Now regarding......

if Pauline and Paul are as bad as some people here seem to be not so secretly hoping, it presents an opportunity for a windfall. Make the de facto base figures for Poser 11 and make a fortune.

That won't work unless you manage to gain mass vendor support. No point in releasing a new figure that only has a limited amount of morphs and content. You cannot do it by yourself. You need an entire ecosystem in order for it to take off. Marketing, Vendor support, financial backing, community interest....We have seen plenty of one off's that never lasted, no point in another one thanks. I prefer quality over quantity.

Zev0 posted at 2:03PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237674

Some of us have seen enough. What you are saying is that somebody who auditions for Idols should get 5 chances to impress the judges because they didn't nail it the first time? Sorry, it does not work like that. You need to bring it first time. Worst type of consumer? Sorry, but that is the majority of consumers. Same thing in every aspect of life. Want to get a job, you better impress in that interview or guess what, they will hire somebody else who does. Welcome to the real world. Now regarding......

I enjoy life coaching from strangers on the internet as much as the next guy, but you have seen nothing that isn't beta yet. That means you have by definition not seen enough, at least for anyone that cares about using accurate (read: final) information as the basis for their decisions.

What you are saying is that somebody who auditions for Idols should get 5 chances to impress the judges because they didn't nail it the first time? Sorry, it does not work like that. You need to bring it first time.

So, is this an intentional strawman argument, or do you really not understand what I said? In case it's the latter, what I actually said is what I wrote. To put it in other words, since that's what you wanted to do anyway, everyone should wait for a final version to make final decisions, if they care about making a decision based on the appropriate information.

That won't work unless you manage to gain mass vendor support. No point in releasing a new figure that only has a limited amount of morphs and content. You cannot do it by yourself. You need an entire ecosystem in order for it to take off. Marketing, Vendor support, financial backing, community interest....We have seen plenty of one off's that never lasted, no point in another one thanks. I prefer quality over quantity.

Hence the use of the phrase 'de facto'.

I realize you're likely to continue to bemoan the situation as you perceive it, and that's fine. It's your right, after all. Just keep in mind that just because it's your right, it doesn't mean that you're right. Cheers.

"Everyone should wait for a final version to make final decisions, if they care about making a decision based on the appropriate information."

Everybody should yes, but everybody doesn't, and you cannot expect everybody to do so. All you can do is damage control in the meantime. That is the point I am trying to make. SM could have done damage control by not letting those renders go live, because guess what, people WILL judge and form an opinion based on what they see. So who is at fault? Us for forming an opinion prior to a final version? Or them for showing us things that failed to impress?

I've seen an image by I think its was Lululee somewhere sorry can't remember where, which actually looked good.

But I'm presuming/speculating that as the figures can be redistributed the idea is that any problems will be fixed by the community and given out as freebies or as saleable content for those that either don't want to do the work or can't, in some ways it makes sense, let those who can do good work do it.

Zev0 posted at 2:38PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237686

So who is at fault? Us for forming an opinion prior to a final version? Or them for showing us things that failed to impress?

Both. Sorry to be blunt, but just because someone else does something stupid, it doesn't mean we should. Or in aphorism form, 'two wrongs do not make a right'.

figures can be redistributed the idea is that any problems will be fixed by the community and given out as freebies or as saleable content for those that either don't want to do the work or can't, in some ways it makes sense, let those who can do good work do it.

This confuses me. How is that any different than what people are currently doing with figures now? Also redistribution of the figure is a holy ^@$! Up because if there is a new revision of the base from somebody else, you will have compatibility issues with content. So I doubt it will be any different to how Daz allows you to make content for their figures. Only difference I see is that the base texture on the new SM figures is a MR. Just because Daz does not market their base figures as MR's doesn't mean they aren't. I mean we all make content and freebies for it. SM are playing word games as a marketing tactic in my opinion. If they are indeed allowing you to modify and redistribute the base, then that is another fail, you will end up with so many versions of the figure that will lose compatibility with content. So I do not see how that makes any sense to be honest.

Well you could perhaps see it as making sense for SM they haven't had to pay anyone to do a really good job, it will be done by the community - possibly in a similar way that the WM V4 was done.

Community efforts can never compete with direct vendor support. It never has and never will. Also if vendors perceive a figure to be a community effort, they will stay away. They will only invest in a figure that has a strong backing and reputation. If SM is going to just offload these figures to the community like all figures before, nothing is going to change, and they will get just as much direct support as previous community projects, which isn't much in the commercial sense of things. That is not how you grow your market. Your aim is to get content developers onboard with your figures, because direct support changes the perception of a figure in this industry. If people only see content coming from the community, it will be perceived as market dead, and that does not attract more people to it.

From everything I have read Pauline and Paul or actually more of a Vendor Base then a Consumer figure base. You like good bends? Better learn to create JCM's or find a product that gives them to you . You want her to look better? Better hope a vendor creates a character you like or learn to Model. Once again SM seem to be leaving the figures future in the hands of 3rd parties developers and refusing to face Posers content crisis which is leaving users with little choice but to use 10 year old figures. It's clear though that if you think Pauline is going to be anything like Genesis 3 out of the box you're in for a rough time.

It seems that they are aiming Paul and Pauline as more as a Base V4 replacement, then any real competition to the Genesis figure series. Apparently taking a big risk imo expecting vendors to just jump in and embrace Pauline as V4 was. And establish new bases to work from such as Morphs++, etc. Those were different times and you can't roll back the clock at this point. The danger of this is that fragmentation of the figure so Pauline becomes BH's gorgeous GND 27 and vendors need to pick do I support a bland JCMless Pauline or the Sexy new BH GND 27 version of Pauline. A base fragmented figure on top of a version fragmented user base...

I tend to agree that it seems to have epic fail written all over it. Let's hope someone there see's some sense before it is too late.

Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it

Let's hope someone there see's some sense before it is too late.

Nope they are too stubborn. They will only listen to faithful Poser users. You have ambassadors who aren't even AAA vendors who are dictating why figures should be created a specific way, enforcing their personal views on how things should be when they are clueless as to what users actually want. They expect every user to dig deep and use all the tools if they want something that isn't provided. It doesn't work that way....

Razor42 posted at 8:51PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237755

From everything I have read Pauline and Paul or actually more of a Vendor Base then a Consumer figure base.

Citation needed.

It seems that they are aiming Paul and Pauline as more as a Base V4 replacement, then any real competition to the Genesis figure series.

Again, citation needed.

I tend to agree that it seems to have epic fail written all over it. Let's hope someone there see's some sense before it is too late.

Opinions vary. Some people even (wisely, in my opinion) choose not to form one until they see the final product.

Zev0 posted at 9:06PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237756

They expect every user to dig deep and use all the tools if they want something that isn't provided. It doesn't work that way....

This is true. Most people seem to have a strong preference for being spoon-fed.

Spoon feeding is the wrong word to use. I prefer the term convenience. This is a content buyers market.

_ Opinions vary. Some people even (wisely, in my opinion) choose not to form one until they see the final product._

Some of us have seen the final product for years now already lol. Every time we are told the same thing...wait and see, wait and see...And it's the same situation every time....So, forgive me if I do not think this time is going to be any different. Based on the initial way these figures were announced and handled, I doubt it. I am seeing the same trends, just a different year. You want to remain optimistic, good. Me? I will continue to follow my research and market data, and trust my instincts, because it has never let me down so far.

Zev0 posted at 9:32PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237762

_ Opinions vary. Some people even (wisely, in my opinion) choose not to form one until they see the final product._

Some of us have seen the final product for years now already lol. Every time we are told the same thing...wait and see, wait and see...And it's the same situation every time....So, forgive me if I do not think this time is going to be any different. Based on the initial way these figures were announced and handled, I doubt it. I am seeing the same trends, just a different year. You want to remain optimistic, good. Me? I will continue to follow my research and market data, and trust my instincts, because it has never let me down so far.

Hey, I hear ya. I have been around this place since Poser 4 came out. I remember the hot 20 wars, and Legume deciding to start a one-poster holy war over the number of Naked Vicki in a Temple with a Sword renders that filled them. And I am just as annoyed with the way Poser development and it's (lack of) content have gone. I am just saying, waiting for a few days until we see what the state of things actually is before making a judgement won't kill us.

And if it's another let-down, I'll be right there beside you with torches and pitchforks.

Very well...Fair enough...Let's wait and see:) I have my optimistic face on:) Bleh, my face is pulling stiff...Just a few more days:)

Black__Days posted at 2:11PM Tue, 10 November 2015 - #4237758

Razor42 posted at 8:51PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237755

From everything I have read Pauline and Paul or actually more of a Vendor Base then a Consumer figure base.

Citation needed.

It seems that they are aiming Paul and Pauline as more as a Base V4 replacement, then any real competition to the Genesis figure series.

Again, citation needed.

I tend to agree that it seems to have epic fail written all over it. Let's hope someone there see's some sense before it is too late.

Opinions vary. Some people even (wisely, in my opinion) choose not to form one until they see the final product.

It's all there in the official Smith Micro threads.

It's been clearly stated numerous time in that thread that Pauline will need 3rd party creation to have Realistic bends (JCM support), Characters other than a plain base, Morphs etc and also that Pauline will be a "merchant resource". In fact the suggestion that she doesn't bend very well has been received as less than welcome feedback, and any suggesting such are being pointed out as demanding a niche or as "Porno" renderers. What is coming with Pauline is the equivalent of making a base V4 and saying the "vendors" will make it wonderful, so don't judge the canvas. In effect you will have V4 but you will need to wait and purchase or make your own extensions to this base to add usability that the average user may expect as part of a base figure. Very similar to all of the past Poser figure releases. Which in my opinion makes Pauline an out of the box vendor resource, that will need lots of work to be done to make her an actual consumer solution to realistic figure rendering.

Opinions vary. Some people even (wisely, in my opinion) choose not to form one until they see the final product.

Well as this may appear "wise", it's very different to what actual markets do. Most people will form an opinion well before something reaches a "final stage". And usually will have a strong opinion on whether they intend to purchase or pass, well before it's on the shelves. The way marketing works in principle is that your job is to convince someone of their need or want for a product. The moment someone has an impression the dials have begin to turn as to whether you want or need the product. A marketer's job is to ensure that those dials, in as many cases as possible spin to Yes! Whether people buy cans of Coke, Pepsi or Vitamin water has very little to do with "Wisdom" and a whole lot to do with branding, marketing and product positioning.

Also all there is really to do is wait. But that doesn't mean I'm going to be sitting on my hands till then. :D

"From everything I have read Pauline and Paul or actually more of a Vendor Base then a Consumer figure base. You like good bends? Better learn to create JCM's or find a product that gives them to you . You want her to look better? Better hope a vendor creates a character you like or learn to Model. Once again SM seem to be leaving the figures future in the hands of 3rd parties developers"

Indeed sir The prevailing unofficial speculation over at RDNA is that these are just "bases" and not the "final bases" at that. No official confirmation from SM.

While I dont dismiss this approach out of hand( if true)

I do indeed question the business model of expecting existing users to pay for upgrades or new users to pay the full purchase price( $300-$400??) for a new version of poser to access these figures.

And further expecting them to wait patiently while all of the "Fixes" "Enhancements" etc are randomly "crowd sourced" by some presumed, disparate group Skilled enthusiasts who will risk shouldering the cost in time and resources to create and market the Content,morphs etc.

show me me any industry producing tangible or digital products where such business model is profitable???

I've got to admit, nothing I've seen about Pauline so far impresses me. The character by Lululee looks great, until you look at the shoulders, and they seem to have a ballooning issue similar to V4 (actually worse than V4). There was also a good render by BaginsBill, but that's about it. Unfortunately, the other renders I've seen simply don't leave me feeling good about the figure. The feet/heels definitely look wrong, or maybe just unattractive and disproportionate?

Hopefully things will change for the better before Pauline and Paul are released. Maybe it's just a case of several poor renders so far, and Pauline will actually look better in the hands of some of the great poser artists? Unfortunately, right now it looks like Pauline in on the same track as Roxie, rush the figure out the door with known issues, and expect the "community" to fix her - we can see how well that worked for Roxie. At any rate, it will be interesting to see what the final versions looks like.

I also hope it's just the skill level of the beta testers, because I haven't see many (4 or 5??) great Cycles (Superfly) renders yet. I hope this is just because lighting is soooo much different with Superfly that long time Poser users haven't figured it out yet. My first Iray render was definitely better than most of what I've seen so far. I just hope that Cycles integration in Poser is as easy to use and get great results from as Iray is in DS.

wolf359 posted at 2:46PM Tue, 10 November 2015 - #4237835

show me me any industry producing tangible or digital products where such business model is profitable???

Game development. Just look at all the fixes users had to implement in past versions of Unity and UDK to get them working right, and the content sold on their official websites is virtually all user generated, for the benefit of other users (at a premium, but still). Game Maker Studio and RPG Maker have run on this business model for years, and they seem to be making enough money, since they keep producing new versions. In those two environments, bugs are fixed and features are added almost exclusively by the community, for free, and later incorporated into the core. That's how RPG Maker MV (the latest version) got the Yanfly scripts and engines incorporated into the official initial release.

I guess there's just a difference in user bases. Perhaps one group wants to make things and figure things out, and the other wants to be handed perfection with all effort removed from day one.

DustRider posted at 2:54PM Tue, 10 November 2015 - #4237840

I just hope that Cycles integration in Poser is as easy to use and get great results from as Iray is in DS.

Well, Cycles in Blender isn't as easy as Blender Render (the basic internal renderer), but Cycles offers much better results. I find that most any time a piece of software is easy to use as compared to more complicated alternatives, it is inherently less powerful. That's just the nature of sacrificing features and customization for ease of use. Just look at how much more powerful ZBrush is than Mudbox, for instance.

wolf359 posted at 1:30PM Wed, 11 November 2015 - #4237641

Well ,I shall not mince words.

I predict EPIC FAIL!!

This is my personal extrapolation based on Empiracal Data. The poser Loyalist will make a valiant effort and put on a brave public face.

There MAY even be a Core group of Die hards that will claim the new figures are awesome not matter the unfolding Disaster.

There will be the usual "hey look what I made for (XXXXX)" threads that will soon fade into the abyss of the rosity forum archives.

Just as Pauline& Paul take their place in the ever growing rubbish bin of poser figure history.

They >>>DONT LOOK HUMAN!!!.<<< Sorry but its the truth and they will Fail $$Commercially$.

bye.

We have to draw the line somewhere wolf359 a company puts up it's offering and we as consumers make our choices, nobody is forced to buy anything. Now this is basically a Poser topic on the Daz forum the least we can do is keep things a little reserved in our judgement. I don't expect Daz or SM to do everything I would like them to I would have to purchase either to make some sort of impact. It has been said these figures are not final public releases and I don't think SM have them available in renders from what I gather and in response. You are entitled to your opinion but please go easy and perhaps "mince" your words quite a bit please. It is not helpful.

Is Pauline meant to be a "Realistic" human figure? The more renders I see, the more I get a feeling she is highly stylised figure and not so much aiming for realism, I'm still waiting to see Pauline rendered in the new PBR renderer with a look that even approaches realism.

Razor42 posted at 10:51AM Wed, 11 November 2015 - #4237975

Is Pauline meant to be a "Realistic" human figure? The more renders I see, the more I get a feeling she is highly stylised figure and not so much aiming for realism, I'm still waiting to see Pauline rendered in the new PBR renderer with a look that even approaches realism.

erogenesis, who has not access to Pauline, is the only person in that group who knows how to create good renders. Everybody else is posting images that look like they have been hand picked by... DAZ managers.

SM seems to have put some effort into Poser characters (a break from the past), you cannot pretend that they also find somebody apart from vilters&co. to render it.

chaecuna posted at 1:53PM Wed, 11 November 2015 - #4237989

Razor42 posted at 10:51AM Wed, 11 November 2015 - #4237975

Is Pauline meant to be a "Realistic" human figure? The more renders I see, the more I get a feeling she is highly stylised figure and not so much aiming for realism, I'm still waiting to see Pauline rendered in the new PBR renderer with a look that even approaches realism.

erogenesis, who has not access to Pauline, is the only person in that group who knows how to create good renders. Everybody else is posting images that look like they have been hand picked by... DAZ managers.

SM seems to have put some effort into Poser characters (a break from the past), you cannot pretend that they also find somebody apart from vilters&co. to render it.

Yes decent effort, but not good enough in my opinion, not compared to G3. Pauline looks like a typical 3D mesh, not something striving for realism (I am talking about structure and bends). Now I can point out a few issues I have with her that is contributing to this fact, but I really do not feel like it to be honest. She is what she is. Will wait to see what people do with her to see if it changes my opinion. And FYI we post what they chose to show lol.

What I find really strange is RDNA (Official Poser forum) has lots of render guru's and not one of them have bothered to do showcase renders, yet SM left it to the usuals to show the figures off. If I were SM that is the first place I would have gone. Where are renders from Caisson and Co? NightSong? Why haven't the Staff of RDNA (who make amazing renders) contributed in showcasing these figures? Strange don't you think? Somebody go tell Sydd to put down G3 and do some Pauline renders please:)

Anyways this is what I say will happen. I could be wrong (and I hope I will be) but anyways here it goes. These are just my views.

Will Paul and Pauline be a commercial success like the Genesis figures? No. Will it attract mass vendor support? No. Will they be a dream for the Poser tinkerers? Sure, why not.

Why won't they be a commercial success? Well, for starters, every vendor would have to have a copy of Poser 11 Pro just to start development for them. Every user will require Poser 11 to use the content made for these figures and the figures themselves. Direct compatibility with content such as V4 or Genesis clothing, Poses, Skins as well is a must, so users can use some of their prior content investments. So, there lies the problem as to why first of all these figures aren't an attractive aspect. It could be if the Software and Base figures were free. People could develop without financial implications. But it isn't. Second of all, they simply do not match G2 and 3 in terms of aesthetic looks which is important in attracting vendors and users. Also the poor marketing of them so far has not helped.

People like to be optimistic, nothing wrong with that, but when you look at the logistics that argue against optimism, it's kind of difficult to get excited and be hopeful that these figures will make any impact on the commercial sector of the market, and us vendors need a figure to do that in order to support it, or we will be losing revenue. Do I want these figures to fail? Not really. If a figure succeeds that means another platform to make a living on. Unfortunately, other than Daz in recent years, no other company has provided a viable alternative and managed to maintain momentum. Hivewire tried with Dawn and Dusk, and support has basically come to a stand still from 3rd parties, pretty sure within a few months the same will happen with Pauline and Paul. Yes you will get those who always like to test the waters at first, but for some of us who have been through this dance many times, we will just ignore. Anyways like I said, these are just my views. I do hope I am proven wrong though....Come on SM, prove me wrong....Anyways, putting on my optimistic face again.....

Think you nailed it Zev......In order for a figure to succeed it need to be supported by content makers and customers. The way to get content makers to support it is to make it have a wide range of customers. Not just the ones who decided to spend all that money to upgrade poser. If there is still so much talk about poser users using V4...it doesnt sound like there are many who really are into upgrading anyway. So the customer base wont be very high....which is not appealing to product makers. It is a shame...because it could be a really good figure, and it would still suffer the same fate.

Poser vendors will support Paul and Pauline not out of good heart or because they suddenly stopped being luddites but because now there no question of what will happen of this field if Poser falters and DAZ remains the only game in town. For them, it is a simple question of business survival.

Do you really believe there will be enough poser vendors to do that and make it succeed? The stores (here included) are getting more and more genesis and ds conent, as many content makers are converting. That is how they are surviving. They cannot wait for poser to get its act together......they tried hard for many years, it just hasn't happened....or we would have seen much greater success for figures like Dawn.

Poser vendors will support Paul and Pauline not out of good heart or because they suddenly stopped being luddites but because now there no question of what will happen of this field if Poser falters and DAZ remains the only game in town. For them, it is a simple question of business survival.

Vendors do not work for SM. If their platform is not profitable, vendors will simply move on to one that is, even if it is not their platform of choice. The whole business survival aspect falls on SM shoulders, not 3rd party. I do not expect vendors to support a platform that isn't bringing in money, regardless what company it is from. There might be loyalty among the community and fans, but vendors, not as much. They follow the money....Because it is their jobs. Nobody wants to spend weeks on something to get next to no return on it. It is extremely demotivating. And I echo what Rawn said. Dawn is a perfect example. A lot of Poser vendors showed initial support. But if a platform is not sustainable, majority of developers will dump it, and well, they have. So the chances of them supporting these new SM figures because it is a must for survival regardless if it's profitable or not? Sorry, that is not a reason. They will if the money is there, if not, they won't.