@Razor42 Yes going over and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo on another forum and dragging it back is hardly going to give the software itself a fair hearing. Nor does it constitute fact in any way shape or form. I have 4.9 and it is silky smooth and understand DRM. Are you familiar with the show Days of our Lives?. I have to sit through that for 3-5 mins each night before news and I can tell ya remarkable similarities a lot of crying going on but I can never work out why. Unfortunately some people who are not right up on the tech side of things and just want to dabble, enjoy and cut a few renders can be easily mislead into believing all the horror stories and the sky is falling in.

[Razor42]> It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

Many, myself included, don't do betas. So the only way we can get answers to our questions is to ask. When the answers aren't clear it fuels speculation..

pendraia posted at 4:50PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237448

[Razor42]> It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

Many, myself included, don't do betas. So the only way we can get answers to our questions is to ask. When the answers aren't clear it fuels speculation..

That's mostly true and I do believe that is what is fuelling a lot of the speculation about in this case.

But it is a fact that we live in a world full of uncertainties. And in a lot of cases it's hard to provide an absolute answer. It really comes down to likelihoods and risk assessment in most case examples. Which most will need to assess on their own.

Ask yourself: Will it rain tomorrow? Will a meteor hit the planet? Will I win the lottery? Will my plane crash? Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect?

All of these have a risk factor or likelihood associated. All of them are potentially possible. We each make millions of decisions each day that have an inherent risk association in even something so simple as crossing a road. If you stood on the side of the road and calculated the amount of risk in doing so it's likely you would never actually cross as so many things could go wrong from a drunk driver running the light, a malfunctioning traffic light or even as simple as a footwear malfunction. Yet most people still cross the road relatively stress free and live to tell the tale.

Some cases, I am seeing are like saying "Can you guarantee that I will always cross the road safely?" and there is only one actual answer possible "No I cannot guarantee you will" most people accept that as a known risk and act to mitigate and move on. Others may see that as an indication that it is in fact unsafe to cross the road and highly likely to lead to misadventure and refuse to do so from that point. Yet if someone said to me "Are you crazy? You could die crossing that road." I would in turn do my own risk assessment and if I found that the risk was low and there was no actual foundation for being afraid to cross that road on that occasion. I would cross the road and probably think that the person was a little irrational. If the next day I seen them wearing a placard and handing out flyers saying crossing the road is the biggest threat to mankind I would definitely think it's time for the white jackets to do a pickup. In the case of crossing the road we all know the hazard that creates the risk and we are taught from an early age the ways of mitigating that risk. Look both ways etc etc. Most in turn see the risk as very low, yet people do die most days doing just that.

And while it may seem like I'm just rambling, which wouldn't be unusual, my point is there are some about that are actually inflating the risk to levels where it comes across as unreasonable speculation bordering on disinformation. Almost to the point it's like saying "Did you know you can get AIDS from using Windows computers? I seen a report the other day about the dangers of computer viruses and a large percentage are known to be infected, so if I was you I wouldn't take any chances with those computers especially with Windows." how do you answer a statement like that?

Questions are always welcome and most here will do their best to provide answers or at least opinions.

And to answer my own questions: Will it rain tomorrow? Maybe. Will a meteor hit the planet? Possibly. Will I win the lottery? Possible but unlikely. Will my plane crash? Also possible but unlikely. Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect? I'll ask my doctor and get his opinion.

Razor42 posted at 5:42PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237454

pendraia posted at 4:50PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237448

[Razor42]> It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

Many, myself included, don't do betas. So the only way we can get answers to our questions is to ask. When the answers aren't clear it fuels speculation..

That's mostly true and I do believe that is what is fuelling a lot of the speculation about in this case.

But it is a fact that we live in a world full of uncertainties. And in a lot of cases it's hard to provide an absolute answer. It really comes down to likelihoods and risk assessment in most case examples. Which most will need to assess on their own.

Ask yourself: Will it rain tomorrow? Will a meteor hit the planet? Will I win the lottery? Will my plane crash? Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect?

All of these have a risk factor or likelihood associated. All of them are potentially possible. We each make millions of decisions each day that have an inherent risk association in even something so simple as crossing a road. If you stood on the side of the road and calculated the amount of risk in doing so it's likely you would ever actually cross as so many things could go wrong from a drunk driver running the light, a malfunctioning traffic light right or even as simple as a footwear malfunction. Yet most people still cross the road relatively stress free and live to tell the tale.

Some cases, I am seeing are like saying "Can you guarantee that I will always cross the road safely?" and there is only one actual answer possible "No I cannot guarantee you will" most people accept that as a known risk and act to mitigate and move on. Others may see that as an indication that is in fact unsafe to cross the road and highly likely to lead to misadventure and refuse to do so from that point. Yet if someone said to me "Are you crazy? You could die crossing that road." I would in turn do my own risk assessment and if I found that the risk was low and there was no actual foundation for being afraid to cross that road on that ocassion. I would cross the road and probably think that the person was a little irrational. If the next day I seen them wearing a placard and handing out flyers saying crossing the road is the biggest threat to mankind I would definitely think it's time for the white jackets to do a pickup. In the case of crossing the road we all know the hazard that creates the risk and we are taught from an early age the ways of mitigating that risk. Look both ways etc etc. Most in turn see the risk as very low, yet people do die most days doing just that.

And while it may seem like I'm just rambling, which wouldn't be unusual, my point is there are some about that are actually inflating the risk to levels where it comes across as unreasonable speculation bordering on disinformation. Almost to the point it's like saying "Did you know you can get AIDS from using windows computers? I seen a report the other day about the danger of computer viruses and a large percent are infected, so if I was you I wouldn't take any chances." how do you answer a statement like that?

Questions are always welcome and most here will do their best to provide answers or at least opinions.

And to answer my own questions: Will it rain tomorrow? Maybe. Will a meteor hit the planet? Possibly. Will I win the lottery? Possible but unlikely. Will my plane crash? Also possible but unlikely. Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect? I'll ask my doctor and get his opinion.

lol...some even say I'll wait and see if there are any cars coming, check and then cross. Which is my stance at the moment. I'm unsure how this will pan out so I'll take my time before trying and see what feedback others who are more willing to take risks have to say.

In regards to lottery winning both my sister-in-laws have won large lottery wins so definitely possible. ; )

From reading this thread I'd say you're right there are lots of opinions stated without having all the facts but sometimes we have to develop opinions without having the facts as you stated above.

I think the thing to remember is that more than one opinion can be valid when viewed from the perspective of the person holding that opinion. Vendors like yourself would have a very different viewpoint of Daz than someone who is a hobbyist. Doesn't make either viewpoint wrong just from different perspectives. There was even a subject on this when I did my teaching course called multiliteracies.

I would imagine that understanding a customers perspective would help a vendor to improve how they market their products but not being a vendor myself that's only an opinion and could be proved wrong. I do know though that I feel for vendors who have to deal with piracy of their products as I understand that for many the income is what supports them and their families. I do have doubts though about the effectiveness of the measures that Daz is thinking about using.

Also as a teacher I'm very passionate that we can all learn and to see Daz Connect promoted because Daz are saying that users can't find content strikes me as being the wrong thing to do on many levels. We were all new to this at one point and we all had to learn how to install and find content. I worry that Daz Connects long term impact will be to lower the skill level of the community.

As you can see I have a number of concerns ranging from my own use e.g. Can I edit files in Notepad ++ to the whole pedagogy behind the move.

edited to fix grammar...sorry brain dead after writing reports all day.

@Razor Kid just got hit by a car and someone just took a shot at another plane so you might want to up the risk factor a few levels on those two. But very well said anyways

Of course the value of debate is never to be underestimated even when there is no clear winner or a right or wrong side. Sometimes discussion can bring out new perspectives or possibilities that were not obvious before some detailed pro's and cons were put forward from both sides of the equation. And I would never be one to discourage active debate or the expression of opposing viewpoint to my own.

And you're definitely right, It's a valuable exercise for a vendor to see through the eyes of their customers and there definitely is a lot to be learned from doing so. One thing on that that I found a bit of a strange paradox as a vendor. Is when working on a product it's easy to get into a mode of thinking that I will make something that the customers will want and in turn will sell well, so after lots of research and market assessment a project is started. After a lot work when launched it flops hard. The paradox is that it's often not what you anticipate or research tells you will sell well. Usually if a vendor instead creates something that they want and enjoy themselves the passion will shine through and customers will also see that in the product. So in turn most successful PA are not just sellers they are also Daz Studio users and also customers in their own right. Actually having a similar eye to issues as customers, more so than many seem to think. And at the end of the day what both parties want is very similar "a strong platform for our passion,"

One thing to note with Piracy and how vendors think about it is that it's not sheerly a monetary thing. A lot of the frustration is in seeing something that you worked so hard on stolen so easily and distributed with lack of regard to the your wishes. A little like seeing a bit of artwork of yours being used on an outrightly racist website. What do you lose from that monetary wise, would it concern you if that happened to you? How would you feel if you contacted the website and asked them to remove it, as it was being used without your consent, and you were just ignored and laughed at and to rub salt into the wound you were told by others "well you just need to accept it". So it's not only a monetary issue. And it's also not a win or lose scenario with piracy. It's about taking reasonable steps to provide a reasonable level of protection even if some see it as only a speed bump ,it will still impact casual piracy of Daz connect products. Daz script files have been encrypted for a long time? Did it ever impact your usage of them that you noticed? Have you heard anyone complain about it?

As far as dumbing down the program base I do see a bit of conflict in how people say, I prefer to manage my own database of content in the OS. But you know what they usually complain about the most? "how vendors put things in their products into stupid folder structures." You think this would be giving them what they want right ;) In my opinion it's not a case of dumbing down, it's an attempt at easing the entry barriers for new users and providing an inline solution to manage content. Many users have been involved for years and what seems like basic knowledge for them is often a steep learning curve for a new user. These programs have been growing in complexity year after year and when faced with incremental change, it's not a huge thing in itself. But for a new user it has become a steeper and steeper barrier to actually using these programs to do what they're intended to do, create art. Most consumers these days have grown used to apps where you click download then you get an icon and you click that and you're off and running. Juggling file structures into a foreign set up of nested folders is beginning to seem antiquated and to many a frustrating opening the door process. WIth my store at Renderosity over 90% off customers that contacted me over the years had one issue. How do I install this? A good content platform developer should recognise this as a significant issue and act to mitigate it. Really at the end of the day, what most people are seeing is their years of building a personal content management system could be becoming redundant, but really is that what this hobby is really about? I can see though the thought of this could be quite daunting and frustrating to many who have been doing if for years with 100's of gigs of content. Though many who do attempt this "New way" of doing things will in time see more benefits than negatives from the process IMO. These are all issues that have also been discussed with Daz3D by the vendors.

Any files that you save yourself will be entirely editable in Notepad. Some PA created content may not be in the future.

Congrats on your lottery wins too :D Some people seem to have all the luck!

In past experience the implementation of simple, small updates have led to a downturn in quality. It turns into meeting a time line release before insuring that all the kinks are worked out. I.e. it is easy to fall into the trap of "let's see what happens, we can always fix it quick."

As they say in the commercial.. that is not how any of this works. First of all before a product is submitted it is finished and has the promos done. You can't rush after, you have to have done all that rushing before it even gets submitted. Nor are products submitted and accepted with a "lets see what happens" attitude. They better see how it works up front in the promos or they won't accept it. Humans can make make mistakes. This will just get those fixed faster since there is less packaging and stuff that has to be done.

Funny how you address everything except what I'm most annoyed at. Deleted posts.

Because I didn't notice it. But I will address it now. The simple fact is people on forums do stupid things. They troll, they say mean things, they cast aspersions at other people, they make direct attacks, and other wise try and pick fights. They use bad words, or use questionable slang, or don't think through what they are saying. They will say things that are not the best choices legally. There are many reasons that posts get pulled. They also get pulled when other people report them for example. Your insinuating that there is something dishonest.. actually no your saying it is dishonest to pull posts. Do the mods delete posts? Yes they do and for all the reasons I listed and more. But there is nothing dishonest in it. Anyone can look at how many dissenting posts there are to tell that they don't pull them just because people disagree, or complain, or even ask the same thing that they know is not true for the half dozenth time.

I bet you want to say that they only pull "some" peoples posts. Well I am telling you right now that is not the case. Not unless I am one of those "some" people you were thinking about. I regularly get posts pulled. Yep, sometimes I rise to the bait (obviously) and get carried away. Do I feel singled out or like they are hiding something just because they have protected someone from my wrath? Not so much. I had a post pulled last week because I talked about thieves. Bet you can figure out what I was talking about. And yea I guess it was needlessly inflammatory. That was not the first post I have ever had pulled and I seriously doubt it will be the last.

Now looking at what you said here that pulling posts "suggests something dishonest". I suspect that if you said that about another brokerage over there they would indeed pull that post. Why? Because it is edging toward slander. I am also sure that they would pull the posts of any mod or pa who chimed in even slightly on the dishonesty thing because they don't want the company to be placed at risk. Nothing dishonest, just CYA.

_ Those products can be placed in a scene, and when they have them arranged as they want - they hit render. Please authorise this payment to download the finished render to your computer..._

Um.. well your making nightmare work for an accounting department that would be larger than the whole company put together right now. And how would it work with the content that people already own? How would that factor into the math? Because that can't change. And how will it navigate user created products and products from other brokerages? How will it break down per use of thousands of individual products by hundreds of individuals and still turn a profit? How many man hours would it take to break every single product down into parts so that they could do the accounting on what got used? How would they convince hundreds of individuals to throw into the plan? How would they ever hope to expand the market the way they currently can with a "free to play" scheme? It would simply ruin all the work they have done to figure out how to bring in new users to the market. When adobe starts charging by the paint brush use we can revisit this because I guess then the accounting tech may be developed enough to even consider it. But until then this is just.. well you know.

Morpheon posted at 1:24PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4236799

"Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted."

Must have missed those when I was still following that thread, or they posted such after I dropped out. The only content creator I was aware of was Zev0, and he was all for it.

There was at least one that I recall that specifically said they would not take part. Zev0 is an interesting case, I buy a lot of his stuff, it's extremely useful. But Zev0 writes mainly scripts, which actually I have no problem with encrypting - I'm never going to need to alter them. And in fact DAZ has used DRM for plugins before - you need installation keys to get them to work.

I don't have problems with DRM as long as it doesn't get in the way of me using content I have paid for, and DAZ is bending over backwards to assure us that isn't going to happen - for obvious reasons. My bigger concern, which they are also addressing, is that they not screw up my filing system - smart content has never worked well for me, and until I can be certain a database change on their end is not going to wipe out weeks of custom category work I did I rather manage my content through a folder system.

As I said, enough people raised that issue that they are taking another look at the idea of putting everything in the data folder which frankly I think was brain dead to start with.

I was at one time an avid music collector. I still listened to a lot of it when they went to CD's. Then MP3's came along, and suddenly the music industry was up in arms, adding all sorts of garbage that got in the way of me playing music I had bought the rights to listen to. The height of that was an MP3 player I bought, and used Rhapsody on (the other services were just as bad at the time). Rhapsody would allow you to download music for a monthly fee, and you had to sync your device once a month. Well half the time when I tried to sync the MP3 player it would corrupt, I'd need to reformat it, and re-download 8 GB of music. Frankly at this point I only listen to, and buy from Indie bands.

Movie DRM is every bit as tight, and frankly you never notice it. If you buy a DVD you can play it on any device you own. You can't make copies of it, but you never paid to do so. The only consideration is if the price they charge for the DVD is worth the content on it. That's your decision.

If I am paying you for content, the pirates are your problem. Don't ask me to accommodate for what you feel is necessary to battle them. As long as I can use my legally licensed content in the way I am used to, I'm fine with whatever DRM scheme you come up with. As soon as that scheme impacts me, the worth of licensing content from you is diminished.

I hope DAZ keeps that in mind. They're going to lose a lot of customers if they don't. With their present set up of providing the program for free, and paying for development with content sales, they can't afford that. Wherever you stand on DRM, those are the facts.

Razor42 posted at 11:09PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237431

Writers_Block posted at 1:35PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237421

Razor42 posted at 1:38AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237410

So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

It's still content distribution whether it is installed on your hard drive or lives in a cloud somewhere for your use. And pointing out two apps that are of a totally different type is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Daz Studio is not a 3d modelling app which can work cloud based much more easily, it's a content platform which is much harder to implement as cloud based successfully. Spotify is cloud based, It doesn't mean there is any advantage to Apple turning to a full cloud based solution for itunes. If Daz Connect did evolve as you speculate into a cloud base solution, I would unfortunately not be able to use the platform at that point, as I live in the country and for me to download 2-3 gigs for a scene would take somewhere between 3-4 hrs and consume a large chunk of my monthly data allowance. So Daz3D's grand plan is to make their program unusable for a good percentage of their customers and PA's. You really haven't thought this through have you?

You're implying that DAZ3D are willing to put piracy protection over user experience to the degree it would make the app unusable and there business vulnerable. That's just irrational nonsense. So any actual data to back your story up or we just need to rely on your gut instinct for this future of Overlord Daz who is going to spoil everybodies fun? No DRM is 100% ironclad, No company ever has expected there DRM to be 100% ironclad forever, Do companies use DRM still to protect their content. Yes!

Frankly, I find most of your last post to be full of rambling and disinformation and quite insulting really insinuating that I am dumb, naive and a Liar seems like you are just trying to fire me up. But honestly I have work to do today :) If you have anything more solid than your gut instinct or internal doom and gloom radar. Let me know.

Have a look here: Disinformation, ring any bells?

It is very easy to implement. Customers can use what products their subscription gives them access to. Those products can be placed in a scene, and when they have them arranged as they want - they hit render. Please authorise this payment to download the finished render to your computer... oh sorry, we forgot to mention that.

Can it be done, Sure. Though what would be the advantages to Daz3D in doing so over the current system. Do you think it would make more customers come on board or lose custom in the long term. You're basically saying that you need to download every product to a scene without actually purchasing it. Wouldn't that just add more risk? Technically you could download to a scene, isolate and pirate without even needing to purchase the product? How would that be more secure? Also adding more data overhead to every customer and Daz3D whether paying or not. The system being described would create extremely difficult scenarios for how a vendor driven marketplace intrinsically works. Explain to me how you would see vendor payments work under the described scenario. Please explain how this system would attract more vendors?

Could Microsoft send malicious malware to every PC that has windows, yes. The question is why would they? Unless they want to destroy their business. Try to focus on the why they would do this rather than just the "if they could". Those answers don't make much sense in context.

As far as post deletions, go check the link about disinformation I posted. Relaxing of TOS to allow posts that disseminate disinformation or maybe just misinformation would be counter intuitive to say the least to a businesses long term interests. No?

Actually, what I'm saying is that it would be possble to do without anyone ever downloading content to their computer.

Razor42 posted at 11:12PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237442

LPR001 posted at 3:22PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237439

Now we are speculating about the speculation I think I am going to need a coffee for this.

That's the name of the game in this thread isn't it? I would guess that most people expressing strong opinions of DS 4.9 here, haven't actually downloaded DS 4.9.

It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

But as you pointed out vents are important too.

I have. It works fine without the smart content. The smart content is a pain to redownload, and the system to sort, well don't want to spend weeks sorting it out - that's too much like work. Outside of the smart content/encrypted content, it seems fine with bug fixes and a slight increase in render speed.

Razor42 posted at 11:18PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237454

pendraia posted at 4:50PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237448

[Razor42]> It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

Many, myself included, don't do betas. So the only way we can get answers to our questions is to ask. When the answers aren't clear it fuels speculation..

That's mostly true and I do believe that is what is fuelling a lot of the speculation about in this case.

But it is a fact that we live in a world full of uncertainties. And in a lot of cases it's hard to provide an absolute answer. It really comes down to likelihoods and risk assessment in most case examples. Which most will need to assess on their own.

Ask yourself: Will it rain tomorrow? Will a meteor hit the planet? Will I win the lottery? Will my plane crash? Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect?

All of these have a risk factor or likelihood associated. All of them are potentially possible. We each make millions of decisions each day that have an inherent risk association in even something so simple as crossing a road. If you stood on the side of the road and calculated the amount of risk in doing so it's likely you would never actually cross as so many things could go wrong from a drunk driver running the light, a malfunctioning traffic light or even as simple as a footwear malfunction. Yet most people still cross the road relatively stress free and live to tell the tale.

Some cases, I am seeing are like saying "Can you guarantee that I will always cross the road safely?" and there is only one actual answer possible "No I cannot guarantee you will" most people accept that as a known risk and act to mitigate and move on. Others may see that as an indication that it is in fact unsafe to cross the road and highly likely to lead to misadventure and refuse to do so from that point. Yet if someone said to me "Are you crazy? You could die crossing that road." I would in turn do my own risk assessment and if I found that the risk was low and there was no actual foundation for being afraid to cross that road on that occasion. I would cross the road and probably think that the person was a little irrational. If the next day I seen them wearing a placard and handing out flyers saying crossing the road is the biggest threat to mankind I would definitely think it's time for the white jackets to do a pickup. In the case of crossing the road we all know the hazard that creates the risk and we are taught from an early age the ways of mitigating that risk. Look both ways etc etc. Most in turn see the risk as very low, yet people do die most days doing just that.

And while it may seem like I'm just rambling, which wouldn't be unusual, my point is there are some about that are actually inflating the risk to levels where it comes across as unreasonable speculation bordering on disinformation. Almost to the point it's like saying "Did you know you can get AIDS from using Windows computers? I seen a report the other day about the dangers of computer viruses and a large percentage are known to be infected, so if I was you I wouldn't take any chances with those computers especially with Windows." how do you answer a statement like that?

Questions are always welcome and most here will do their best to provide answers or at least opinions.

And to answer my own questions: Will it rain tomorrow? Maybe. Will a meteor hit the planet? Possibly. Will I win the lottery? Possible but unlikely. Will my plane crash? Also possible but unlikely. Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect? I'll ask my doctor and get his opinion.

I agree there has been a lot of speculation; it has been drastically helped by the number of deleted posts.

So you ask you doctor about your heart; he sticks his fingers in his ears (effectively deleting your conversation) and you're left wondering why?

Actually, what I'm saying is that it would be possible to do without anyone ever downloading content to their computer.

Possible - maybe, Likelihood - about as high as getting struck by lightning while gardening in your bunny pajamas IMO

I have. It works fine without the smart content. The smart content is a pain to redownload, and the system to sort, well don't want to spend weeks sorting it out - that's too much like work. Outside of the smart content/encrypted content, it seems fine with bug fixes and a slight increase in render speed.

What smart content were you redownloading? Do you mean metadata? Metadata should be a fairly small download if that's the case. It has actually been recommended to wait for the RC before attempting to redownload your entire library as there will be a direct bridge from your installed content to DC.

So which questions did you have that were deleted may I ask?

"I agree there has been a lot of speculation; it has been drastically helped by the number of deleted posts.

So you ask you doctor about your heart; he sticks his fingers in his ears (effectively deleting your conversation) and you're left wondering why?"

You left out the part where the doctor has already told you a dozen times what to do about your heart and you just keep asking the him if you could get heart cancer.

Some good info on the official position of Daz3D on Piracy and Encryption Policies of DS4.9 from Daz_Jon Here.

" Do you mean metadata? Metadata should be a fairly small download if that's the case. It has actually been recommended to wait for the RC before attempting to redownload your entire library as there will be a direct bridge from your installed content to DC."

I did run the maintenance/re-download the meta data. I had nothing to loose because my old smart content was such a mess I had never used it. It took about 2 minutes total and it was all copacetic for the first time ever.

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!

Tony_Stark posted at 1:56PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237554

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!

No offense, but I pretty much disagree with your entire statement. DIM has been widely adopted by far the majority of DS users and for many DIM takes a lot of the Database management side out of the equation for them, making it actually a lot easier to focus on making art. Which seems to be what you're asking for in your last statement? So really your issue with DIM is the folder arrangement behind the scenes, that most users would never actually see if they use Smart content to manage their content? But you choose to unzip and place your content manually because you don't like smart content, which causes you to have issue with the folder structure?

In effect Daz Connect will make folder naming conventions pretty much irrelevant for Daz3D content. As content management will be handled inline and be more flexible to personal preferences and arrangement, without needing to have the argument about whether that vanity folder is necessary or not. Smart content works alongside of your normal Content Library and makes it easier for most to build a scene without having to remember in what exact folder or the vendor name for that pair of shoes.

You could even argue, it's not Smart Content that is dumb it's your old content.

Here is a statement I made earlier in the thread:

As far as dumbing down the program base I do see a bit of conflict in how people say, I prefer to manage my own database of content in the OS. But you know what they usually complain about the most? "how vendors put things in their products into stupid folder structures." You think this would be giving them what they want right ;)

Tony_Stark posted at 10:43PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237554

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!

I have seriously loved DIM. I really don't want to fart around installing stuff if I don't have to and I actually really like where DIM installs my Studio stuff. I will never understand people who put more time into organizing content than using content. Nor will I ever understand the concept of a dozen or more "runtimes" (which of course is not even correct phrasing for studio organization) with everything spread hither and yon. I don't want to run from place to place to load things I want it all right there where I can get it as fast as possible. DIM installs it and there it is for me. Actually I feel the same way about connect which I am using. It installs it and I can work. I like things simple and fast.

If anything the Smart Content has a big improvement in 4.9 I have seen a lot of comments from long time users not so keen on the Smart Content system ever since introduced. I always felt it was good in principle it was just a half effort type arrangement it now appears now to be very effective. A lot of the members comments on this thread and others seem to be more talking about Daz 5.7 then wonder why they are not getting answers. If somebody told me 5 years ago we would not have a car manufacturer left in Australia in the next 10 years I would have said don't be an idiot we have 8 there has to be a clear winner. I think by end of next year we will have none, all gone. Things change deal with it. I only have the one concern with the update and that is where they said you can't move the content. My computer is full of software which can get very heavy and bloated. How I have it set up today will need an adjustment a 3-4 times a year My other DRM encoded software which is most I can still pick up entire folders and move them to a external drive tell the software where it is and it takes it from there. It is not a IP I am moving address nor a name change by deed poll it is DRM encoded content and changing the path on a computer talking to Daz via connect so I am a little confused considering it only has one entry exit point the computer name and details collected by Daz on install. I have a reasonably healthy size hard drive but this week alone I would have downloaded 15-20 gigs from the Daz/UE4 store. I guess as long as I can add a external drive and point it the same from Daz for new installs of content that is workaround. That is the part I am most concerned with. Anybody in 3D animation cutting AVI files will know when you put a 3TB drive in your PC and think that will last forever is back at the store a 3-4 times a year if things are slow. I am concerned about the mega gigs of Daz on my main computer as up until now it was always temporary. I have not had chance to chase it up but it is what I read myself so it wasn't second hand news. Although I read it as from a point onward not what I had already I could be wrong. If I am let me know.

I will be the first to admit I am a Daz fan and bias towards the product the software is not my main but it's flexibility makes it kind of a massive plugin. One at this point I could not do without. I challenge anybody to point me in the direction of better content of such quality, theme and variety from the PA's. Both there, here anywhere content is available through proper channels And if you buy right very cost effective.

@diogenese19348 As for the music industry some of the Indie music getting around is is equally as good as the commercial so you are not missing out on anything :-) In a lot of cases better because they are trying harder struggled harder usually a band's 1st album is their best. There is a lot more pressing issues in the music industry than the just the DRM. Someone born today could possibly die at 100 and never have paid for a single track and do so legally. It doesn't do much for us labels but it is a fact of life today. Occasionally a few times a year the musicians can afford a hamburger...... If we loan them the money. Daz should throw everything it has at product protection with the least amount of impact on the user as possible. If I am paying my good money so should everybody else. If the PA's spend all their time achieving the content I see they have the right to the protection. I am even willing to take a hit of a second or two load time while online or Daz checking my content in the background while I have the app open to ensure my content is all legit. I have nothing to hide I pay for everything that is on my drive except legit freebies which I appreciate too. I just hope we don't lose the functionality and freedoms we enjoy now but I think every Daz user would want that and I don't think Daz would want to take them away either it is what made the brand.

Granted I am commercial so it wouldn't be good business practice knocking stuff off all over the web or in the real world. I can't see me doing things any differently if retired.

Khory_D posted at 11:32PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237565

Tony_Stark posted at 10:43PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237554

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!

I have seriously loved DIM. I really don't want to fart around installing stuff if I don't have to and I actually really like where DIM installs my Studio stuff. I will never understand people who put more time into organizing content than using content. Nor will I ever understand the concept of a dozen or more "runtimes" (which of course is not even correct phrasing for studio organization) with everything spread hither and yon. I don't want to run from place to place to load things I want it all right there where I can get it as fast as possible. DIM installs it and there it is for me. Actually I feel the same way about connect which I am using. It installs it and I can work. I like things simple and fast.

Agreed. Anyone that doesn't like DIM simply doesn't buy enough content to see the where it comes to play. Right now I have 5 iray shader products queued up to download and install about 5 gigs worth of data in addition to the 15 other products (and product updates I get notified through DIM) I will drop in that I bought this week. It was an absolute nightmare to download those and go through the multiple clicks to install content (including agreeing to the EULA every single time), much less know which products got updated. Now I can simply set what I want to download in a batch, start it up and go to be and everything will be installed when I get up. Most people do just want to make their art, not get into the intricacies of downloading and setting up content; they just want it to work as soon as they buy it with as little hassle as possible. Even the idea around genesis is set up around the ease of use (no more injections for instance).

Writers_Block posted at 8:50AM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237517

"Actually, what I'm saying is that it would be possble to do without anyone ever downloading content to their computer."

That would be great for me. I'd have DS running on a 100-core Amazon server for 3Delight renders. My Iray preview/renders would be served by nVidia's GPU cloud with millions of CUDA cores. My content library would live on a CDN somewhere. I'd be able to do 10,000 x 10,000 renders on my phone at 30,000ft. Ideal!

prixat posted at 9:24PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237598

Writers_Block posted at 8:50AM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237517

"Actually, what I'm saying is that it would be possble to do without anyone ever downloading content to their computer."

That would be great for me. I'd have DS running on a 100-core Amazon server for 3Delight renders. My Iray preview/renders would be served by nVidia's GPU cloud with millions of CUDA cores. My content library would live on a CDN somewhere. I'd be able to do 10,000 x 10,000 renders on my phone at 30,000ft. Ideal!

Somehow it doesn't sound all that bad when you put it like that!

Tony_Stark posted at 3:34PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237554

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!

The Content folder, like the manifest.dsx file, is there for DIM to keep different types of file organised, users manually installing should ignore it and the manifest file.

So, what I want to know is if 4.9 is also going to coincide with Michael 7 / Genesis 3 Male. If so, that leaves me looking very uneasily toward DAZ Studio 5 and the probable introduction of Genesis 4 in a year at most.

That's my biggest issue with DAZ, to be honest. I don't mind the DAZ Connect move, and the DIM didn't really bother me either. What bothers me is the pace of the content treadmill. It seem that it's been getting steadily faster, with periods between generations of figures shortening. Maybe I'll just bow out of the whole thing, play with the toys I have, and maybe jump back on the treadmill with generation 8.

Black__Days posted at 10:57AM Tue, 10 November 2015 - #4237740

So, what I want to know is if 4.9 is also going to coincide with Michael 7 / Genesis 3 Male. If so, that leaves me looking very uneasily toward DAZ Studio 5 and the probable introduction of Genesis 4 in a year at most.

That's my biggest issue with DAZ, to be honest. I don't mind the DAZ Connect move, and the DIM didn't really bother me either. What bothers me is the pace of the content treadmill. It seem that it's been getting steadily faster, with periods between generations of figures shortening. Maybe I'll just bow out of the whole thing, play with the toys I have, and maybe jump back on the treadmill with generation 8.

I tend to find this one is also a bit of a misnomer. Sure the pace of content development seems to be increasing, but that would just offer more content choice wouldn't it. I still use Genesis and Genesis 2 quite a bit and I hear some also like V4 for some reason. Just because newer products arrive doesn't make the old ones redundant or in any way less useful. I know when I buy a computer, that pretty much before I power it on there will likely be a newer faster system available for the same price I paid. But I don't buy a computer to be the fastest forever, I purchase it to do a job and as long as the system can do that job for me for a number of years, I'm happy with it. I have no issue that newer faster models are arriving, in fact I just find it somewhat exciting that when I do choose to upgrade that the development has kept pushing the edge and I'm going to have a new faster and more powerful beast to put to work. A few of the software packs I use are also back a few versions from the latest too.

IMO What would be even scarier is to be stuck with the same level of tech or figure base for over ten years, while seeing very little advancement in the tech, wait a sec when was V4 made... ;)

What he said. Nobody is forcing you to use the latest figures. There are even clones so you can use new content on the older figures if you do not want to move over to the new ones just yet, or the other way around.

Razor42 posted at 9:08PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237743

I tend to find this one is also a bit of a misnomer. Sure the pace of content development seems to be increasing, but that would just offer more content choice wouldn't it.

I am not speaking strictly about content development pace, per se, but more generational iteration and base/main character proliferation. I simply feel it's too fast. That's a personal opinion, and I completely understand why people might disagree. I have felt this way since M2/V2 were replaced by M3/V3/David/Stephanie/Freak. Sure, the Unimesh gave some great advantages, but it really started the ball rolling toward getting less for the money and not getting as much out of the figures we have bought as we could have. Features we once took for granted (like facial expressions!) are now monetized, and what once would have been a character morph and texture set is now instead a new $30 base character.

Characters like Gianni 6 and Olympia 6 being their own base, with their own UVs, instead of just some new expansion for M/V6 are a prime example. I understand the business side of it, of course. Potential customers for Gianni 6 would only be a subset of people that already owned Michael 6, instead of everyone with Genesis 2 Male installed maybe buying him.

I just miss the days when you bought a figure, and that figure was a whole product, complete with body morphs to change body type, facial morphs to emote or make elf ears, fangs, etc. Now all of that is $10-$20 each. I would like to see a middle ground, where DAZ can make plenty of money and users can get more out of the content they buy. In my opinion, the right path to DAZ making just as much as they are right now would be to slow down generational iteration, stop proliferating base characters with each generation, and instead focus on providing some more imaginative content to support those people. There has never been a surplus of good environments, for instance, and nobody ever had a problem selling pose packs or hair. Make those characters that are right now marketed as equivalents to the flagship people (Olympia, Josie, Julie, Jaden, etc) addons for the flagship people instead, and make more of them. That would really be a way to offer more content choice.

Just my two cents' worth. Your mileage may vary.

IMO What would be even scarier is to be stuck with the same level of tech or figure base for over ten years, while seeing very little advancement in the tech, wait a sec when was V4 made... ;)

Now now. There's no need to turn everything into a dig at Poser's lack of first party content support.

Razor42 posted at 6:02PM Thu, 12 November 2015 - #4237603

prixat posted at 9:24PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237598

Writers_Block posted at 8:50AM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237517

"Actually, what I'm saying is that it would be possble to do without anyone ever downloading content to their computer."

That would be great for me. I'd have DS running on a 100-core Amazon server for 3Delight renders. My Iray preview/renders would be served by nVidia's GPU cloud with millions of CUDA cores. My content library would live on a CDN somewhere. I'd be able to do 10,000 x 10,000 renders on my phone at 30,000ft. Ideal!

Somehow it doesn't sound all that bad when you put it like that!

For those that want that, it's ideal; those that want something else, well it isn't.

Where Daz goes, we will have to see; what happens to the statements they made, we will have to see; I'm somewhat worried about the direction, but I don't have to go with them , or follow after.

So'll I'll wait and continue to save my cash. Or spend some here at Rederosity instead. My only purchases were in the last two weeks have been 3 G2 with large discount. Good for me.

It feels like there is another shoe though.

Slowing down figure generation iterations means to not keep up with emerging technology....that is the problem that is killing poser. Daz is smarter than that...they will keep growing new figures that keep up with modern technology, and as such will keep themselves vital

FWIW, I DON'T like my stuff being stored in the cloud IF I can't download it to my own hard drive and use it from said hard drive. It sounds like this is not the case with the new Daz DRM. Sounds like to me the stuff still lives on your hard drive but also stays in the cloud for when and if you need it. DRM I don't mind so long as my use of it is invisible to me while I'm using it. Sounds like this is also the case with Daz DRM. I'll be watching over the next weeks while this all fleshes out, but if everything is how I understand it right now, I don't have a problem with it.

How hard will the DRM be on vendors? Will one need to be a "Daz insider" to defeat the DRM in order to make products easier? I make freebies, so it's a question I'd really like an answer to. Will the DRM in any way hamper ones ability to create and distribute morphs and/or other products like clothing generation and so forth?

Laurie

LaurieA posted at 3:27PM Mon, 30 November 2015 - #4241631

FWIW, I DON'T like my stuff being stored in the cloud IF I can't download it to my own hard drive and use it from said hard drive. It sounds like this is not the case with the new Daz DRM. Sounds like to me the stuff still lives on your hard drive but also stays in the cloud for when and if you need it. DRM I don't mind so long as my use of it is invisible to me while I'm using it. Sounds like this is also the case with Daz DRM. I'll be watching over the next weeks while this all fleshes out, but if everything is how I understand it right now, I don't have a problem with it.

How hard will the DRM be on vendors? Will one need to be a "Daz insider" to defeat the DRM in order to make products easier? I make freebies, so it's a question I'd really like an answer to. Will the DRM in any way hamper ones ability to create and distribute morphs and/or other products like clothing generation and so forth?

Laurie

The "cloud" element is no more cloudy than DIM -the main difference is that with the new system you get only the changed files with an update, instead of having to download the full product, which is a boon for those of us with capped bandwidth.

The new beta isn't encrypting content that is available through DIM (which is all of it, currently) though once there is Connect-only content that will still be encrypted. The new beta has also added the ability to drag from the CMS-based views to a file based view (DAZ Studio Formats) to create a shortcut to the content that you can move around as you wish.

The encryption won't generally interfere with content creation - the Transfer Utility still works, you can still bridge or export OBJs for morph-creation and save as (unencrypted) morph assets and so on. I'm not sure, off-hand, that there will be ways in which it might interfere but I'll leave the weaselly "generally" as insurance.

Thanks Richard for your answer :). And yes...downloading only the changes will be really nice. I have a generous monthly bandwidth, but saving it where I can is always nice ;).

Laurie

I've read through more pages than I can count on this, and I have to say this. As a consumer, I believe that my time purchasing DAZ products is slowly coming to an end. I will not participate in DRM related purchases. I've been at odds with DAZ for years because they keep rolling out crap that no one's interested in and ignoring all of the things that we've been asking for as users. To me there were a thousand other things more important than DRM, which is nothing more than pissing in the wind because for all your efforts, there are literally thousands of hackers that are more skilled and less scrupulous. DRM will be cracked within hours and they'll be right back where they started -only the cost of this colossal failure will be passed onto the consumer.

It's caused me to rethink a lot of my strategies when it comes to animating and rendering. I wanted the models and for the most part, I have about 99 percent of the models that I need to do the things that I want to do. I have never liked the DUF format as a tech guy because it was so poorly thought out. Rendering in DAZ is certainly easy, now there are other options that are just as easy and offer features that DAZ refuses to implement. I've spent the last few months investigating Modo, Cinema 4D, Iclone, and now Maya LT and I'm convinced that just about the only thing DAZ has to offer is the models themselves. The lack of proper rigging tools, dynamics, particles, and literally abandoning Carrara when they should have been retooling it to take over for DAZ studio entirely have caused me to look elsewhere. With Modo Indie priced at $299 or the full version right at a thousand dollars --800 around this time of year when they do the sale, or Maya LT with Stingray at 30 dollars a month, do I really have to put up with DRM?

This weekend I started experimenting with the FBX export to Maya and Motion Builder and I have also started evaulating at MODO with the Automatic Character Rigging setup for converting my favorite DAZ models to a rigging system that is animator friendly. I'm even looking at using Akeytsu with Unreal Engine 4. I don't like cloud based operations and I despise DRM content so Genesis 3 is probably the end of the line for my figure purchasing from DAZ. I can spend more time taking the models I already own and converting them for use elsewhere and get a whole lot of mileage out of systems that give me the tools I've been asking for. I love your models, but I'm not going to jump on the Cloud/DRM bandwagon.

Wow, I only needed to read maybe 4 posts to get the new DRM system and people still think their stuff is all gonna be in the cloud? Reread please. The stuff still downloads to your computer. You got control of your own content on your own hard drive...the only way the cloud enters into it is keeping your stuff there for you to DOWNLOAD. Same as we've had for years now. Seems the actual DRM part of the equation is pretty transpartent too....log into Daz servers once...maybe it checks once in awhile. What program nowdays doesn't do that? Photoshop until they went all cloud based checked EVERY time ya opened it. A lot of software does. Did everyone stop using Photoshop? That was a rhetorical question btw...we all know the answer to that one ;).

I don't have a problem with artists trying to protect their creations or a company protecting its assets...uphill battle that it is. Seems that people are having a huge problem with any DRM at all...which I find strange. I rebelled against what SM did to GameDev, but it was only the implementation of it, not the fact that they were trying to protect their assets. It's only when it starts to become a clusterf**k for the customers that I have a problem with it. If Daz can keep it pretty transparent, what's the huge problem?

Laurie

LaurieA posted at 1:20PM Wed, 02 December 2015 - #4242022

Wow, I only needed to read maybe 4 posts to get the new DRM system and people still think their stuff is all gonna be in the cloud? Reread please. The stuff still downloads to your computer. You got control of your own content on your own hard drive...the only way the cloud enters into it is keeping your stuff there for you to DOWNLOAD. Same as we've had for years now. Seems the actual DRM part of the equation is pretty transpartent too....log into Daz servers once...maybe it checks once in awhile. What program nowdays doesn't do that? Photoshop until they went all cloud based checked EVERY time ya opened it. A lot of software does. Did everyone stop using Photoshop? That was a rhetorical question btw...we all know the answer to that one ;).

I don't have a problem with artists trying to protect their creations or a company protecting its assets...uphill battle that it is. Seems that people are having a huge problem with any DRM at all...which I find strange. I rebelled against what SM did to GameDev, but it was only the implementation of it, not the fact that they were trying to protect their assets. It's only when it starts to become a clusterf**k for the customers that I have a problem with it. If Daz can keep it pretty transparent, what's the huge problem?

Laurie

I've read the writeups from DAZ as well and my understanding of what this brings based on my experience with things DRM related. It's my experience when companies start doing stuff like this, that other changes for the worse usually follow. We have no idea of the "unintended" consequences of DRM from a technical standpoint no matter how many assurances you get from DAZ to the contrary. The usual line is that there's no impact whatsoever, or that it won't affect you. But then reality sets in along with the error messages, or the people who have activated their id on a new machine or lose it when their old machine gets struck by lightning, or when people who work on multiple computers can't get their work done because they're limited by DRM imposed limitations. I work typically on no less than four computers on a daily basis with access to several more. Let's say that you have small operation of ten computers or so and let's say the limitation of DRM is five computers? Do you purchase the exact same license again? Why should you? You purchased the product didn't you? Why should you have to purchase it again?

After they implement something like this, is usually when the "adjustments" to your licensing start to show up. Since it's DRM, you have no choice but to accept whatever's imposed on you. That doesn't even begin to cover the technical aspects of "unintended consequences" Then you're dealing with things like mis-input data on a product id or your digital id get's corrupted or version conflicts because someone was asleep at the switch when they roll out a new version. It adds another level of "things that can go wrong" when it comes to working in DAZ studio. This stuff plagues even companies like Microsoft companies all the time. You get error messages like "You cannot play a Windows Media DRM protected file or a Zune DRM protected file on a computer that is preconfigured with Windows 7" see KB976590. Or if you retstore your computer from a backup image and find that your DRM content is now inaccessible because their security reads that as an attempt to circumvent DRM. No, my experience tells me that I don't want to deal with DRM.

I don't want encrypted files. Like most people who work at this stuff, we like to be able to tinker and improve things or retask old assets but who's to say that six months after DRM comes out they make it so you can't edit DUF files with DRM applied to them? And what happens when DRM says you now no longer can export DRM items to other applications without paying an "Export Fee?" Even if DAZ came out today and said that will never happen, it's not worth the bits and bytes it takes to publish it. We all know that is subject to change without notice. Don't believe me? Have you seen the new Apple pencil? Or have you tried to purchase Reallusion products on DAZ?

Or think of this... Some PA decides take DAZ to court over royalties or something like that and suddenly all the stuff you've purchased from them is no longer available for some reason? I have even experienced this with Amazon.com when I got some free books because one of the kindle books I purchased suddenly disappeared from my library. They had to pay it out as a result of the class action lawsuit because of that.

I choose as a consumer not to deal with it. With the way things are now, I have choices which did not exist years ago, so I don't have to.

Wouldn't it be better tho to throw a fit about it when and if the time comes rather than throw a fit from speculation? It seems like a better use of energy to me :). Of course, you're always free to walk off and use something else if you so choose. As for me, I'd rather not get upset until I know for sure things are going in a bad way. As it stands, it's not going to be THIS version anyway.

What is it specifically that you're worried about happening that you won't agree to? Your content in the cloud only? I'd be right there screaming with you. Having the software call home now and then? Meh, I'm used to that with a lot of other software I use. No difference. Software in the cloud only? A company like Daz having their content and software in the cloud represents a slew of ongoing bandwidth headaches that I'm not sure they'd want to deal with. I'm sure at least as far as content goes, your stuff is gonna be on your hard drive for the foreseeable future. Granted, I don't know any of this for sure, I'm just trying to think it thru logically.

Laurie

I'm not afraid of anything. I look at the situation and I evaluate the impact on me and what I'm doing and I make a decision based on what I observe. I did the same thing when I switched from Poser to DAZ studio. I went through two or three versions with Poser and when I saw that they had no interest in addressing things that were important to me and what I wanted to do, I went back and tried DAZ Studio again. I do not rely on brand loyalty. I'm a one person shop and I have to do everything myself so to me, the content was king. Now the writing on the wall says that DAZ is going that same route --they roll out Genesis 3 without any Path to Carrara, nor any anouncement Carrara support is coming. We've been asking for particles and dynamics for years now, and they have ignored it in every iteration, while trying to tout DAZ as being animation friendly. Their sales practices have even become suspicious --to that I point out the release of Nineve 6 and Ysabeau 6 right before releasing Genesis 3 and Victoria 7 --with no advance warning. Particularly, I note that they broke the backwards compatibility to ensure that users could not use old textures nor easily convert them so as to force users to purchase new texture sets. They could have sat down with the Genesis 2 mesh and applied the new bone system, allowing users to continue using their old content but they made the conscious choice to break continuity.

All this time, they've ignored developing their own documentation, while dedicating themselves to Morph3d without addressing concerns and making improvements that would benefit their core user base. Because they're going after the semi-professional and indie market, they're ignoring the hobbyists like we're lepers. This is just the final nail in the coffin, and it's sad because I really do like their models. While none of these things individually would cause me to seek other sources, taken together it's a sign that I should move on and look for something more versatile and more responsive.

I bought Iclone 6 pro as soon as I found out that they had added dynamic cloth, speed trees, perception neuron mocap and Indigo Render. I tested it and what they're doing addresses 90 percent of the things that I've been after. If they ever decide to update the native render to like a licensed version of Unreal Engine--there's no way I'd ever go back to DAZ studio for anything because they're giving me the tools to animate-which is what I do as my hobby. The only thing that DAZ has going for it is Iray Render. But now that I'm a Beta Tester for Maya Iray --I'll pay for it when it comes out in full version which means there's absolutely nothing to keep me working in DAZ studio.

DRM isn't the only reason, it's just the last in a string of reasons why I'm moving away from working in DAZ studio.

will2power posted at 6:11PM Wed, 02 December 2015 - #4242073

I'm not afraid of anything. I look at the situation and I evaluate the impact on me and what I'm doing and I make a decision based on what I observe. I did the same thing when I switched from Poser to DAZ studio. I went through two or three versions with Poser and when I saw that they had no interest in addressing things that were important to me and what I wanted to do, I went back and tried DAZ Studio again. I do not rely on brand loyalty. I'm a one person shop and I have to do everything myself so to me, the content was king. Now the writing on the wall says that DAZ is going that same route --they roll out Genesis 3 without any Path to Carrara, nor any anouncement Carrara support is coming.

1. When has DAZ announced anything in advance? Never.

2. Genesis 3 support in carrara is being worked on http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/944221/#Comment_944221

We've been asking for particles and dynamics for years now, and they have ignored it in every iteration, while trying to tout DAZ as being animation friendly.

a few have been asking. The thing with business is that if it isn't profitable for the effort, it won't be pursued. I think that pretty much sums up why it hasn't shown up.

Their sales practices have even become suspicious --to that I point out the release of Nineve 6 and Ysabeau 6 right before releasing Genesis 3 and Victoria 7 --with no advance warning.

Nothing says you can't use two or more different generations in one scene. And people are still buying Genesis 2 items today. And again, DAZ has never announced new figures far in advance. Not with V2, V3 not with V4, nor G1 nor G2.

Particularly, I note that they broke the backwards compatibility to ensure that users could not use old textures nor easily convert them so as to force users to purchase new texture sets. They could have sat down with the Genesis 2 mesh and applied the new bone system, allowing users to continue using their old content but they made the conscious choice to break continuity.

Not true at all. The changes in Genesis 3 address better posing and animation; the issue Per the designer of Genesis was keeping the V4-era things in hurt the overall design, so it was removed. Considering the uptake of Genesis 3 over Genesis 2, it was a wise decision. People are always looking for better tools, and sometimes compatibility has to be sacrificed. That said, You can still move morphs and clothing over using the transfer tool and autofit. I do know from starting to work with the mesh is that the morphs are easier to construct as I'm not pulling muscle flows from the mesh, which in turn custom morphs doesn't pull clothing in the flows' direction when morphs are autogenerated in clothing like it did in the earlier generations.

All this time, they've ignored developing their own documentation, while dedicating themselves to Morph3d without addressing concerns and making improvements that would benefit their core user base. Because they're going after the semi-professional and indie market, they're ignoring the hobbyists like we're lepers. This is just the final nail in the coffin, and it's sad because I really do like their models. While none of these things individually would cause me to seek other sources, taken together it's a sign that I should move on and look for something more versatile and more responsive.

I don't know, but DAZ doesn't keep the store filled, the PAs do. And there's plenty of content (of both Genesis 2 and 3 newly released) to choose from at DAZ and there's stuff at rendo too. So far, there's been 1 to 2 major figure releases a month, more than last generation... including Iray integration to put PBR in the hands of the average hobbyist for free. Ignoring them? I'm sorry but I think you're mistaken. . Also of note: I think the perception is that DAZ is some huge company with hundreds of employees.. not so. It's a small group.. two separate groups now with morph3d (so the gaming and DAZ Studio projects are separate, not together). They've done a lot with the small number of people they have, so certain things will have a higher priority than others. Right now and for a while now, it has been DS and everything falls in line behind that, such as Carrara... so sometimes, things haven't been worked on because they haven't gotten to it yet, so it's always good to keep the wild speculation to a minimum.

Male_M3dia, You have your opinion and I have mine, and what I see tells me the direction that they're going is not the direction that I want to go. I made the decision and I'm sure you'll make whatever purchase decision you want to make, just like I did with Poser. I've never used smart content and working on this for 4.9 tells me that they have prioritized DRM and features useless to me over improvements I have seen develop in other softwares who are less apt to hold on to outdated methods. That is the DAZ priority --it's not mine. So I'm transitioning to environments that provide the animation tools and components that I deem necessary. That's the wonderful thing about the free market. If you want to hold onto DAZ, then that's fine --I choose to move on. The funny thing is, the only thing this whole thing has done is galvanize my resolve to do it.

will2power posted at 8:59PM Wed, 02 December 2015 - #4242084

Male_M3dia, You have your opinion and I have mine, and what I see tells me the direction that they're going is not the direction that I want to go. I made the decision and I'm sure you'll make whatever purchase decision you want to make, just like I did with Poser. I've never used smart content and working on this for 4.9 tells me that they have prioritized DRM and features useless to me over improvements I have seen develop in other softwares who are less apt to hold on to outdated methods. That is the DAZ priority --it's not mine. So I'm transitioning to environments that provide the animation tools and components that I deem necessary. That's the wonderful thing about the free market. If you want to hold onto DAZ, then that's fine --I choose to move on. The funny thing is, the only thing this whole thing has done is galvanize my resolve to do it.

I'm sure people's speculations will drive them to do things that end up costing them in the long run rather than taking time to look and understand the facts. I'm simply not that alarmed right now based on what I see and will wait until it shakes out. I'm doubting it anywhere near doomsday, and like always, those people tend to come back.. just don't make too much of a fuss because the words you leave are the words you end up eating ;) And over the last few years, I've seen lots of people eating hearty word salads from their angry posts that I still remember.

I dont even use the content management service but like to download the content and install it myself to various external drives which I can use with various computers. such as my desktop or plug it into my laptop. From what I've read it means you cannot move your content around. If I can no longer do this I will not be buying any new stuff from them.

artbyphil posted at 11:07AM Thu, 03 December 2015 - #4242186

I dont even use the content management service but like to download the content and install it myself to various external drives which I can use with various computers. such as my desktop or plug it into my laptop. From what I've read it means you cannot move your content around. If I can no longer do this I will not be buying any new stuff from them.

You can install content you where you like, however things that you shouldn't be moving in the first place, such as items in the data directory, will probably be encrypted on DAZ connected items. Since products could be updated by item, not the whole package, you probably shouldn't move those items in the future. That said, things that call those items, such as scene subsets and wearables, could be created for those items then moved to a different location for organization.

You can still choose which content directories to use, but the files go in DataCloudproductID and can't be moved from that location (but you can safely move the DataCloudProductID folder to a different content directory, something that wasn't true without tidying up in earlier versions). What you can do is create a special new "shortcut" file that points to the user-facing files (the ones you see in the content panes) and move those around as you see fit. Files for content that is already available, or that is released through DIM as well as Connect, are no longer encrypted in the latest beta - only Connect-only content will be encrypted.

Going back to an earlier post, Rob Whisenant did post in one of the Daz forum threads to explicitly state that Carrara support for Genesis 3 is being worked on (or perhaps that Dual Quaternion rigging was being worked on, so that Genesis 3 could follow) and as I recall that Connect support is also planned.

@will2power There are loads of options out there in the market and we are tied to none but if you are jumping ship because of the DRM you might want to be kicking quite a few of your suggested alternatives of the wish list. Any member worried about how Daz will operate into the future with DRM go download UE4 or Unity for free and give it a try there is enough starter content and project files plus they give away projects you can strip for assets for use in your own UE4 created projects. UE4 is fully DRM and practically cloud based identical to the Daz concept. You download to your computer and it is also available from the cloud you have a library upstairs and downstairs. Same thing they won't be messing with what you create but another vendor or their proprietary products it is fair enough to do all they can to protect it.

PS Nukeygara Akeytsu is killer!! Good choice there my friend dream come true that software.

I think this is a related issue (?) I'm using a recent beta of DAZ Studio (4.9.0.44) and having no issues except this: how do I find new content? The old way of finding newly installed content does not seem to work - I'm inclined to think this a deliberate strategy to make manual installation of content problematic (I'm not using DAZ install manager etc . . . whatever they are called). So previously it was : Scan known directories for files , , , new content would be highlighted. Now the new content is there (somewhere) but not highlighted. I can usually find it but I'm never really sure plus it's a pain hunting for it. Suggestions? Is there a work-around?

The original New flags have been removed, yes, though I thought there was an equivalent that added items to the new New group. Why not install to a temporary content directory, make sure everything is working, then move to your regular location. That is how I have always (ish) worked, I've never used the Scan for new feature.

Nice, thanks. I hadn't though of that (temp content directory) but it does seem to make sense.

Follow-up question (showing my ignorance about how DAZ directories etc work): where would I place the "temp" folder? I.e. a new product unpacks like this (geometries libraries etc). Would I create a new "Studio Temp" under DAZ 3D? Or place it farther down the list (under My Library or other). The point is that I tried setting up a Temporary folder but ran into a roadblock . . . presumably put it in the wrong place?

(A screenshot of my content dir. mgr folders.)

Add a new content directory - for Poser and for DS - to the lists in the last screenshot then install there. This also has the advantage that the RuntimeTextures folder will be largely empty so if there's a bad path it's a quick matter to find the correct path (or confirm that the file is missing).