I have nothing against Blender I love the app..Anyone good enough to make Vickys = would get a faster app's. Can't compare zBrush characters with Vicky. There's very few CGI Artist that can actually make Vickys = .

and you never know if the characters in there renders where made from scratch. Most softwares come with characters.

most game characters etc etc are made by CGI teams.with the best softwares. Just cause you try to sell a $80 tooth don't mean any one will buy it. some game budgets are in the millions.

Actually I think a very talented pro could conquer n rule DAZ Poser in a few years and make a killing. There's a lot of potential and very limited competition. just stop thinking a nude girl is all that matters.and any other venders support is necessary. There's a lot more then a nude girl in games.

RorrKonn posted at 3:58PM Fri, 01 January 2016 - #4246720

There's very few CGI Artist that can actually make Vickys = .

Hundreds of them, at least, just not interested in this market.

chaecuna posted at 3:56PM Fri, 01 January 2016 - #4246750

RorrKonn posted at 3:58PM Fri, 01 January 2016 - #4246720

There's very few CGI Artist that can actually make Vickys = .

Hundreds of them, at least, just not interested in this market.

But are the 100's as good as DAZ ? There's character creators at turbo but there's only 2 or 3 that there characters look as good as Vicky. none have Vickys morphing capabilities. in any app Max Maya etc etc no one else competes at DAZ n HW3D level.

wolf359 posted at 12:49AM Sat, 02 January 2016 - #4246567

The poser "market" ,as I have seen it here, is only interested in Northern European Female models with realisticly bending joints so she looks "realistic" in her naked renders and an endless supply of female clothing to dress her for internet gallery stills.

No story telling, no animation, no VFX work............. just her Standing there.

you are not going to find Many real "pros" willing to invest time in this paradigm.

I think that is more of what the vendors are actually interested in. When you talk to a vendor, you pick up real quickly I only make what I am personally interested in. Just as fast, you will also get to hear I don't have time to learn any post-Poser 6 feature. Which is why we are still dealing with material .pz2s in 2016.

ssgbryan posted at 9:22PM Sat, 02 January 2016 - #4246866

wolf359 posted at 12:49AM Sat, 02 January 2016 - #4246567

The poser "market" ,as I have seen it here, is only interested in Northern European Female models with realisticly bending joints so she looks "realistic" in her naked renders and an endless supply of female clothing to dress her for internet gallery stills.

No story telling, no animation, no VFX work............. just her Standing there.

you are not going to find Many real "pros" willing to invest time in this paradigm.

I think that is more of what the vendors are actually interested in. When you talk to a vendor, you pick up real quickly I only make what I am personally interested in. Just as fast, you will also get to hear I don't have time to learn any post-Poser 6 feature. Which is why we are still dealing with material .pz2s in 2016.

As long as they keep selling out dated panties they have no incentive to get up to date n sell worthy merchandise.

But Venders like DAZ that do sell up to date worthy merchandise. Poserdome will go threw hell to get it to work in Poser.

Aery Soul ,StoneMason etc etc We can tell the Vendors that makes a effort.

chaecuna posted at 9:33PM Sat, 02 January 2016 - #4246870

RorrKonn posted at 10:20AM Sat, 02 January 2016 - #4246812

chaecuna posted at 3:56PM Fri, 01 January 2016 - #4246750

RorrKonn posted at 3:58PM Fri, 01 January 2016 - #4246720

There's very few CGI Artist that can actually make Vickys = .

Hundreds of them, at least, just not interested in this market.

But are the 100's as good as DAZ ? There's character creators at turbo but there's only 2 or 3 that there characters look as good as Vicky. none have Vickys morphing capabilities. in any app Max Maya etc etc no one else competes at DAZ n HW3D level.

You exhibit a bird-like imprinting that conditions you to consider DAZ the top of the 3D world. I really do question whether you are a zBrush user and visit zBrush forums (if you do so, you are getting nothing out of it). In any case, there is no point in continuing discussing with you. Bye bye.

One of my New Years resolutions was to start making extensive use of the Ignore feature on the forums I visit.

I can report that it is working very well and that my blood pressure is significantly lower.

Untill then, two top talented Content creators are about to release new figures to look foreward to. Erogenesis and Ali. No need to tell you about Ero anymore, but the other one is known for hair props and Ang2. If you check out his web side, you'll see a wire shaded figure, http://www.mankahoo.com/index.php that could become a new Poser-doll. Looks very promising, and I'm very excited about that release. I hope she'll be released. Just purchased Ang2 from mankahoo.com and she is everything Pauline should have been but isn't. Not perfect but is well rigged, looks nice with lots of morph potential and very easy to use.

I've been using G3F in poser since before her release. I just converted her to triax. Granted, this is for cloth sims and jcms and then I'm right back to studio (so facial expressions don't matter), but I'd think if you were really desperate to use her more fully in poser, you could just convert her to triax, create a bunch of morph targets for her facial expressions in studio for use in Poser in lieu of the rigged face and call it a day.

Yeah but Joe... you're actually talented and a content creator. Rather than delusionally pretending that you possess those characteristics. Lol.

OPEN SOURCE...

I think the only solution to true compatibility is for the community to take over 3D scene creation software. Blender is an answer to commercial 3D modeling software that sometimes costs as much as a car. Gimp does everything that Photoshop can do. Look what those wonderful guys and Luxrender have been able to achieve. I haven't purchased a Microsoft Office version in 15 years because Open Office does it all just as well. I'm a photographer, not a software engineer but if I was and with my increasing frustration with the growing incompatibility between DAZ content and Poser, I would definitely be thinking along those lines. At this stage in my life and career, it's way too late to become a developer but I've spent enough time in these forums to know that there are many here who do have the developer chops to make this happen. Since DAZ and SM seem to be no longer willing to cooperate, that may be the only workable solution available. It certainly won't be any skin off of DAZ's nose since they offer Studio for free. Wouldn't it be great if they finally turned over an application they no longer sell and profit from to the 3D community and let those who love doing CG 3D to run with it from there? Sun Microsystems did that with Open Office. Sun was long ago swallowed up by Oracle but even someone with the ego of Larry Ellison had the good sense to let Open Office run free. Larry Ellison of all people. We all know that the only difference between God and Larry Ellison is that God doesn't think he's Larry Ellison and yet Ellison gave Open Office to the community. DAZ would still profit just as much if not more from content creation and a community created 3D scene increase demand for their content.

I'm not holding my breath tho.

@crashworship: wise decision not to hold your breath.

What make me mad is that the only item the prevents a complete FOSS pipeline from 2D concept art to composited movies are humanoid figures. Unfortunately, MakeHuman content is not up to snuff to obsolete Poser/Studio content.

DAZ open sourcing Studio? you must be joking, they are rising walls around their upcoming digital Alcatraz they are building.

Hi there

I've tried export G3F to Poser as OBJ,it works,here is render of her in Poser 11 with EZSkin 3 and Superfly,as native figure I don't expect will be available,maybe in later stages,but right now if I want to use her,then export as OBJ is best way or render in DS with IRAY

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Does exporting the object export geografted items as well? I would like to export it using certain "improved entrails" that are on sale elsewhere, if you know what I mean. Genitals :D But as far as I know they use geografting.

thehawkman posted at 11:58PM Tue, 12 January 2016 - #4248795

Does exporting the object export geografted items as well? I would like to export it using certain "improved entrails" that are on sale elsewhere, if you know what I mean. Genitals :D But as far as I know they use geografting.

Yes does export too geografted items,tried and they're exported as should,just if you want to pose her,this can be pain,but you can export her posed etc and render in Poser if this does help as I do

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

chaecuna posted at 3:40PM Wed, 13 January 2016 - #4248753

@crashworship: wise decision not to hold your breath.

What make me mad is that the only item the prevents a complete FOSS pipeline from 2D concept art to composited movies are humanoid figures. Unfortunately, MakeHuman content is not up to snuff to obsolete Poser/Studio content.

DAZ open sourcing Studio? you must be joking, they are rising walls around their upcoming digital Alcatraz they are building.

Yeah, I know. DAZ open sourcing Studio isn't likely. I forgot about MakeHuman. I've had a small bit of success importing a MakeHuman figure into Poser Pro 2014 and rigging it but you're right, the quality is way behind DAZ's people as far back as Vicky 3. That's why I argue that the only possible path towards cross platform compatibility can only come from the community. Neither DAZ nor SM seem to be willing to cooperate so a community created work around is the only option. This thread shows that since DAZ refuses to make an importer for G3F/M into Poser, there are people working on a community solution. I hope they find one.

I'm done with Poser and won't be upgrading to 11/2016 Pro because it seems that the "new" figure that Poser now bundles with it is just Dawn renamed Pauline. I've never been a big fan of Dawn because of that odd cross-eyed pointy face look. I can't help thinking Morlock when I see Dawn's/Pauline's face. If I can't use DAZ characters in Poser, what use is it to me? Daz's characters are clearly superior. I've been getting used to Studio simply because I've been using but ultimately, I still prefer Poser but none of Poser's native content appeals to me. So no DAZ people in Poser, then no Poser for me.

Exporting G3 as OBJ from DS to render in Poser? Why didn't I think of that?

I already regularly convert figures to OBJ (native Poser figures, V4/M4, Dawn/Dusk, and Genesis1/2) prior to rendering in Poser -- because it uses much less memory and permits a much more complicated scene. The workflow has become second nature by now.

Exporting as an obj, is what I allways used to do. I never used DSON. Pose in DS, export as *.obj (fix issues with the morph brush !!!) and render in Poser.

Food for thought: Blender Foundation has released version 5 of BlenRig.

I've tried export G3F to Poser as OBJ.

Kind of takes the Pose out of Poser doesn't it? ;)

I suppose R® just doesn't have the same ring to it though.

Though the pirates would probably like it.

Razor42 posted at 1:40AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249183

I've tried export G3F to Poser as OBJ.

Kind of takes the Pose out of Poser doesn't it? ;)

I suppose R® just doesn't have the same ring to it though.

Though the pirates would probably like it.

Hi there

I prefer to render in Poser or 3DS MAX like in DS IRAY,although IRAY is not bad engine,but DS interface sucks for me(Blender have probably worst interface,but this is different story for me),if UI will be better in DS I would be rendering only in DS,but with that interface sorry...

I do static renders and if I need specific pose,I will pose her in DS and export her,I know posing G3 inside the Poser will be awesome,but for price of sluggish UI,I choose OBJ which is staying on my HDD

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

jura11 posted at 1:28PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249184

Razor42 posted at 1:40AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249183

I've tried export G3F to Poser as OBJ.

Kind of takes the Pose out of Poser doesn't it? ;)

I suppose R® just doesn't have the same ring to it though.

Though the pirates would probably like it.

Hi there

I prefer to render in Poser or 3DS MAX like in DS IRAY,although IRAY is not bad engine,but DS interface sucks for me(Blender have probably worst interface,but this is different story for me),if UI will be better in DS I would be rendering only in DS,but with that interface sorry...

I do static renders and if I need specific pose,I will pose her in DS and export her,I know posing G3 inside the Poser will be awesome,but for price of sluggish UI,I choose OBJ which is staying on my HDD

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Not to go off topic, but there are 3 different default UI layouts in Daz Studio to choose from or you can customise your own also.

But each to there own as they say, to me the Poser UI is a little too simplified and clunky and is very much seated in the Kai Krause and Phil Clevenger Metacreations 1990's style, who reworked the UI for Poser 3 and created the Bryce UI also, the UI style does have some unique appeal and helped Poser and Bryce find their niche with a very visual focus, which is easy to pickup and great for new blood and artist types looking to get into 3D with little mainstream UI experience. On the other hand those experienced with higher end apps UI design may find Blender and other apps as fairly intuitive.

Phil has gone on to do some good UI's for Adobe and is the current User experience Designer at Adobe.

If the process is what works best for you. Than it is a workable solution.

Razor42 posted at 3:04AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249193

jura11 posted at 1:28PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249184

Razor42 posted at 1:40AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249183

I've tried export G3F to Poser as OBJ.

Kind of takes the Pose out of Poser doesn't it? ;)

I suppose R® just doesn't have the same ring to it though.

Though the pirates would probably like it.

Hi there

I prefer to render in Poser or 3DS MAX like in DS IRAY,although IRAY is not bad engine,but DS interface sucks for me(Blender have probably worst interface,but this is different story for me),if UI will be better in DS I would be rendering only in DS,but with that interface sorry...

I do static renders and if I need specific pose,I will pose her in DS and export her,I know posing G3 inside the Poser will be awesome,but for price of sluggish UI,I choose OBJ which is staying on my HDD

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

Not to go off topic, but there are 3 different default UI layouts in Daz Studio to choose from or you can customise your own also.

But each to there own as they say, to me the Poser UI is a little too simplified and clunky and is very much seated in the Kai Krause and Phil Clevenger Metacreations 1990's style, who reworked the UI for Poser 3 and created the Bryce UI also, the UI style does have some unique appeal and helped Poser and Bryce find their niche with a very visual focus, which is easy to pickup and great for new blood and artist types looking to get into 3D with little mainstream UI experience. On the other hand those experienced with higher end apps UI design may find Blender and other apps as fairly intuitive.

Phil has gone on to do some good UI's for Adobe and is the current User experience Designer at Adobe.

If the process is what works best for you. Than it is a workable solution.

I didn't investigate those UI in DS,I think I will have look on that for sure and we will see,but right now this process works for me and like to use multiple programs and do my own tests

Yes I would agree UI in Poser is simplified UI,but it works for me and many people too,yes this I know Poser UI has been created by Metacreations and I think they have own app which has been like cousin of the Poser and regarding off topic and Blender,don't ask me,tried to do simple render of my scene in Blender and I failed pretty much miserably and I promised myself I don't touch that program until they sort this bloody UI,creating the camera takes so much steps,in most programs you can make own camera from view like in DS or 3DS MAX,in Blender oh no way,in DS I like how easy to create camera or spotlight from view etc,this if have too Poser,I'm very happy bunny

Best solution for us will be if Genesis is as native figure without the using DSON,performance will be much better then and everybody is happy too,but this is out of my hands and most of people over here,this is in hands of SM and Daz

Thanks,Jura

In Blender you can Align a camera to view by selecting the desired Camera and Crtl Alt 0 (Num pad) or space type (Align C)amera To Ctrl Alt 0).

I was under the impression this was a technical thread, not a "My App is Better Than Your App" thread...

Keep You

I really wish Daz vendors would stop coming into Poser forum just to 'preach' the 'superiority' of their software.. it's getting REALLY old..

If you don't have anything relevant to the thread, then please don't post!

And yes, I use the ignore function, but what does that help when the next person quote them, and you have to read their drivel anyway?

Well if you really want to try to get this thread back on track and you need to look at the actual issues surrounding why it has stalled in the first place.

The progress Willdial made was impressive, but stalled out at the crux of the issue which is the weight maps. As dual quats are not compatible with Poser a translation is needed for some kind of Poser Compatibility. Willdial was looking at a process of manual translation which he stated was completed successfully but we have not really seen a great deal of how accurate the translation is or if it works in every aspect of the figure. Once perfect we would need to be able to automate the process to work for 3rd parties. As the Daz3D Genesis 3 Female weight maps are copyrighted to Daz and it would not be possible to redistribute a figure that carries them without breaching that copyright.

So to progress the thread:

1. Complete translation of weight maps to Poser - Partially complete
2. Create a distributable script to automate Willdials process which doesn't breach any legalities of the Genesis 3 figure. - Not started
3. Create other translators for other aspects of the Genesis 3 figure. - Not started

Looking at the other aspects of the figure that make Genesis 3 figures, Genesis 3 Figures other than the bare bones.

1. Most Genesis 3 figure Material presets are calibrated for the Daz Studio Iray PBR render engine. A translation shader would need to be created for Poser to use existing texture maps for both FF or SF. Results would vary depending on how the textures were configured. So it would be a guessing game as to what would translate well and what you could use.

2. Compatibility with prior assets (V4, G1 etc) Texture sets for older figures will need manual translation to work with Genesis 3 as there is no direct path to use older textures with Genesis 3 characters even for DS users except for baking textures through a 3rd party app using a bake set up between figure meshes. In fact most older content for prior figures will not be supported on this new figure.

3. Compatibility with Genesis 3 Assets. Any product that is released at Daz3D is unlikely to carry support for any form of Genestein character for Poser. So off the shelf options for content is going to be unlikely or at best very patchy. You can expect to see issues with any existing Daz Studio products wherever they are sold as the results of using them on a translated figure would be unknown and pretty much unsupportable from a vendors perspective.

If the project reaches a distributable phase: Support would likely be non existent from any official sources and figure updates made by Daz3D could potentially put the project and process back to step 1 or leave people with a figure frozen in time or no longer functioning addons/products they have acquired for the Poser translated figure.

So really to go beyond the current step, Willdial needs to create a step by step tutorial to be thoroughly tested by others and built upon to reach a final version. And then a script writer will need to then build a script to automate the entire process and accept all of the caveats I just went over to its viability.

It's probably best to get a skilled script writer onboard at this point to explain even whether it's possible to proceed with.

Any scripters willing to take this on out there?

The fact that willdial hasn't added to this thread for a few weeks and hasn't added a post since page 1, his last started with "Unfortunately, its not that simple.", leads me to believe that this thread has officially stalled.

Righteous indignation aside of course.

DreaminGirl posted at 6:17PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249219

If you don't have anything relevant to the thread, then please don't post!

Good advice...

Lol. Ah the agony and all the lost uncanny valley lingerie catalogue imagery wanna be's not to reach their artistic fruition... and a great weeping and gnashing of teeth was heard amongst many buck toothed 3d periphery dilettantes sluggishly aroused from sweatily pondering such damnable things as heretical cloth sims and do-it-thine-selves, covetous fantasies of pittance paying vendorships never to be realized, Verily, there oughta be a button or a sale!

It's all very simple, really. This thread is about getting Genesis 3 to work in poser. If you have knowledge about how that could be accomplished, then please share, whoever you are!

HOWEVER, if all you have to say is 'use Daz Studio instead, it's sooo much better!" then please stay away. ESPECIALLY if you have economical interest in as many users as possible to switch from Poser to Studio, as that is akin to those people going from door to door trying to convince you to join their religion. It is rude, plain and simple.

Apparently this concept is too complicated for some people

Daz vendors would stop coming into Poser forum just to 'preach' the 'superiority' of their software

HOWEVER, if all you have to say is 'use Daz Studio instead, it's sooo much better!"

Quote pls? Page 2 is pretty much a Daz3D bash fest, but honestly I can't seem to see what your referring to in this thread. Nowhere are there Daz3D vendors saying 'well just use Daz Studio'. Though it does seem like you're seizing an imaginary scenario to troll, once again, an US and THEM mentality DAZ<--->POSER. And getting in a few uppercuts to content creators on the side.

Ah well no point arguing I guess, I'll just report the trolling and move on. HF

I think that if there were people really willing to help, concentrating efforts on MakeHuman would be a more useful proposition rather than starting the usual 1-man crusade that peters out as soon as the difficulties of the task and the amount of work are recognized by the Don Quixote of the day.

@jura: Shift+A, select Camera from the popup menu. Point it as Razor42 wrote or select Lock Camera to view in the 3D view right panel. Switch to camera view with Numpad 0. If you want to do something cooler, watch a tutorial about Camera fly mode. It does not seem to be as overtly complex.

chaecuna posted at 10:36AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249233

I think that if there were people really willing to help, concentrating efforts on MakeHuman would be a more useful proposition rather than starting the usual 1-man crusade that peters out as soon as the difficulties of the task and the amount of work are recognized by the Don Quixote of the day.

I can really understand why some people want Genesis 3 to work in Poser but as the very informative reply from Razor42 shows, the possibility of this happening is not very likely. It will take a great deal of time, effort and commitment that could be trashed in a moment by future changes to Genesis 3.

I really do agree that I feel the time and effort could be better spent on a project that has more more likelihood of being successful.

jesus christ , how hard is for you people to stay on topic , the OP ask for technical assistance .. not your person opinions .. if you have nothing of a technical nature to add . then move along . Moderators start taking control of these threads or find someone who can.

I wonder why it is that Genesis 3 seems to bring out the worst in people - I'm off.

joequick posted at 8:55AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247272

I've been using G3F in poser since before her release. I just converted her to triax. Granted, this is for cloth sims and jcms and then I'm right back to studio (so facial expressions don't matter), but I'd think if you were really desperate to use her more fully in poser, you could just convert her to triax, create a bunch of morph targets for her facial expressions in studio for use in Poser in lieu of the rigged face and call it a day.

For some reason, I missed this post. Sounds like a decent solution to me.

artdude41 posted at 12:01PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249241

jesus christ , how hard is for you people to stay on topic , the OP ask for technical assistance .. not your person opinions .. if you have nothing of a technical nature to add . then move along . Moderators start taking control of these threads or find someone who can.

I told them how to get V7 to work in Poser. 87 post in 15 years and religious terms are absolutely forbidden on these forums dude. If you hung around more you would relies the ot's help keep the forums a live and is the inventions of new ideas. cool gallery.

A open source copyright free characters would solve all tech problems. ODF's character Antonia for Poser is open source. she does not have much of a following.

Razor42 posted at 2:51PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249220

The fact that willdial hasn't added to this thread for a few weeks and hasn't added a post since page 1, his last started with "Unfortunately, its not that simple.", leads me to believe that this thread has officially stalled.

Wildial hasn't posted ANYTHING on the Forum in over three weeks, so I hope that serious RL issues aren't the reason.

Genesis 3 is a nice mesh with a nice assortment of compatible cloth meshes, and the base mesh is free with Studio. It almost works in Poser if converted to Tri-ax within Studio. As a native Poser figure, a converted Genesis 3 would have similar strengths and weakness to any new Poser figure.

I've fooled with it a bit, but I'm hampered by a lack of knowledge of the modern Poser file format, which, unlike the DSON format, is very poorly documented; there is no offical documentation that I'm aware of.. The facial bones are there, but they don't work properly, and the ERCs controlling the ones that do work have issues...

His Deviant Art account has a few journal posts, I think he is a little frustrated with the whole scene right now. I also hope it's nothing too serious.

Unfortunately this type of project will need someone with some serious scripting skills to proceed, which the OP asked for in the OP. Judging by the actual Poser Technical forum here they're not exactly hiding under every rock. So it could be a big ask to find someone willing to commit.

Hello! WandW good to see you here. This is a thread relevant post. I have downloaded the newly released FREEBIE from WillDial that Renderosity sent the mailout about. The first portion, the mini tutorial showing how to get the complete G3F from DS4.x into Poser 11/Pro works great. But I cannot move any joints at all. Also, the second part, running Genesis3PoserUpdater.exe results in an error. The .pdf userguide is simplistic, does not cover installing this tool. Use of the tool is as expected, but the result is not. I have tried a number of ideas, none helped. I use ONLY 64 bit DS 4.8 and 64 bit Poser Pro 11. This util is 32 bit and will NOT install in the Poser Pro 11 folder set in Program Files (of course!). Any ideas why the utility crashes with the same error at every try with any number of saved G3F files? TIA! McG.

Wow OK Nevermind the help request, I got it I got it! I had messed up a selection in the Save As from DS 4.8, and while it looked perfect the saved Figure didn't act right at all. I deleted the mistakes and started fresh, following the Userguide PDF to the letter. Now I have a G3F loaded into PP 11, and she's smiling very nicely!

Thanks WillDial! This is appreciated very much!

McG.

I can't seem to get this, I do everything to the letter, but when I double click the cr2 in Poser 11, nothing shows up, anywhere, Poser 11 says she is there but I can't see her? Can you tell me what I am doing wrong?

You got far enough to get a .cr2. Going thru the Poser parts. The first thing you will be loading is actually a .DUF via DSON in Poser. Note the the Library does NOT show an extension name for it! That is why you save it from Poser 11 the moment you first load it from your Library. Best to use a new file name too. Next, after saving it, you delete the one in the scene leaving an empty scene. This is the point you run the Updater Utility from the desktop, load and update that file you just saved. When it says Success! you finally, open that new CR2 in Poser. THAT one is the one that showed up in the Pose room for me.

Well something is not right, I still can't see her, it says she is there, however, there is nothing there.

See the announcement for the free script by willdial & Lululee.

https://www.renderosity.com/render-daz-genesis-3-in-poser-cms-18144?&AID=408

Okay, well I read all that, still not sure why I can't visually see the product?

Did you try the script? If not, download the script, it's all free & then see the announcement HERE. It's sort of an unofficial help thread now so you should be able to get help there.

@ SAMS3D - I think they are still trying to figure the problem out, as some people are having the invisibility thing like you are, and others like me are not. I am using the standard issue DS 4.8 and PP-11, both 64 bit. Same software as some of the people having the issue, and likely same types of hardware and drivers. Sorry to put you through all that, I should have noted the "invisibility" you mention.