Smaker1:

I forgot to add last night...

You are a wizard with creating images. I wish I had one tenth of your talent. Beautiful image, and I love the play in the cloth.

@DaremoK3: Thanks for good advice. I was beginning to think that it was just me having the slow response problem and that everyone else was experiencing the kind of speed seen in the videos. I'll play with the settings a little more but is there somewhere that I could read what each of them do? What effect they have on the cloth? So far I've just been following the videos or leaving at defaults. I do have a reluctance to go back to testing with primitives - mainly because I will never use them in a scene so I want to learn how to use the sim with clothing that I will be using. But I do understand the point you make.

Also, some of the terminology is completely new to me. What are springs, for example? Or a tessellation algorithm? When we talk about SubD - do we mean the parameters in DAZ Studio or the settings in the VWD panel? When to use animated or static drapes? I assumed that animated was for animations so I used static but I know that many Optitex users advise using animated drapes for everything, including static. I'm not clear on how to do that with VWD.

Here's the point: I was hoping for a way to pose my clothed character in DAZ Studio - send the character and cloth to VWD, drape, and return to DAZ Studio. But it seems it I was being naive in thinking that. For a start, I notice that a new object appears in DAZ Studio so that we have the original garment and a new one specifically for VWD. As I don't have the purchased version I don't know what happens next. Usually, I pose and render, save the updated scene, pose and render, save and so on. I normally make stories with about 30 to 40 scenes that way. Would this be a problem to do with VWD? Especially if animation is needed?

I started with static, just to get a feel for the program; basically load in the cloth on the figure, and let it 'relax' into a natural look. Once it's done that, maybe tweak it by pulling it about; you can return the posed-cloth more than once too. I started static as that removes an extra set of criterial to sort before opening VWD. I'd also get everything ready for clicking VWD; then save it as a default. That way, you don't have to resort/load/adjust items every time. I also duplicate node hierarchies in Daz of the items I am going to be posing, again so I have an easy backup for when I don't like a result.

I'm not doing comics myself,

but I can imagine setting up your complete storyboard with many frames

and then with VWD render out an animation,

which goes from one comic frame to the next with like some flow frames in between.

Export as animation and spawn a morph target to fix the shape of the garment in the frames you need for your comic.

Maybe this way is faster then setting up each frame separately.

@marble : I don't if I will reply correctly to your questions. First, I don't understand the slowness you have in VWD. You have a verry good computer and the speed of the calculation for a very simple cloth should be made at 5 FPS at least. I would like to help you to find the problem you have. The "springs" are generated between the vertices of your mesh. it is they which will rigidify the clothes or the hair. The subdivision in VWD allows to avoid penetration between the cloth and the character. It also allows to change the behaviour of the cloth; a cloth with a smaller mesh will be softer. If you want to create an animation, you need to use a dynamic simulation of course. For a static simulation, the need to use a static or a dynamic simulation depends on your cloth, your pose, the dynamic you want to have. If a conforming cloth or a conforming hair is correctly positionned on your character but you want to apply a more realistic effect by using a simulation, a static simulation will be perfect. If the cloth don't suit correctly on the character at the frame which will be used for the rendering, you have to start with a pose where the cloth suits correctly the character and make an animation from this pose to the final pose. In general, 30 frames are enough to do that. You can after the simulation, use the dynamic deformation to finalize the draping. A new object appears in the Host because VWD can be used for conforming clothes or hair and these objects are cut in body parts. For a simulation a cloth mesh must be welded. If this operation is not done, the different parts will be disconnected during the simulation and will fall on the ground. I hope these explanations will help you.

marble:

For Sub-D (subdivision) we are talking about both DS, and VWD. Sub-D is the algorithms used (Catmull-Clark, Cat-Mark, Loop, Gérald-VWD), and tessellation is the way polygons (whether quadrangles, or triangles) are formed on a mesh. Example would be Catmull-Clark yields all quad sub-d, while Loop yields all tris sub-d. Gérald's own sub-d algorthim yields a tri-mesh which if from quads the tessellation will be like the one in the image below:

The image above also serves as the second answer to your questions (Springs). That is a mock-up for the Mass/Spring model for cloth simulation. Basically "springs" are what allow cloth to bend and fold, but much more is involved. There are many different types of springs that could be utilized within a simulation such as Torsion, Tension, Damping, Bend, Shearing, Structural, Edge, and etc. You really don't need to concern yourself with these, but just know that springs are what allow the cloth to work as, well, cloth (same goes for hair).

For the image above, imagine that every edge you see is a spring. But, note, springs can even be invisible attached to the visible structural springs. So, just because the mesh is a limited tessellation, the spring count can be high based on what springs are actually being created at sim time.

Here is another example of tessellation for cloth simulation. This is a Sub-D Isotropic tessellation:

I hope this helps...

• EDIT: I was writing when Gérald posted above, so just consider this an add on to his post. He answered what was needed.

Thank you both for your explanation. I think I know what springs are now, at least. However, I am no closer to understanding what I need to change to achieve the speed that both Philemo and Gérald say I should be seeing. Now I'm seeing these strange textures on the skin and clothes that were not there when I first tried VWD. I have tried re-downloading the demo but it did not change anything.Some cloth is quicker than others but none are what I would consider quick. I can see the stepping through and I'm seeing a step change about every 3 seconds with a "quick" cloth and about 10 seconds with a slow cloth. I don't know if that relates directly to FPS though.

I have not had a chance to try a new test in the past couple of days but I hope to do some more tests in the next few days. I'll post my findings and, no doubt, ask more questions.

To avoid slowness, it's also important to not load items that are not relevant for the current simulation.

For example do not add a heavy hairmodel while simulating a dress.

Do not load an entire environment, only the chair that needs to interact with cloth.

Biscuits posted at 1:48PM Tue, 31 May 2016 - #4270932

To avoid slowness, it's also important to not load items that are not relevant for the current simulation.

For example do not add a heavy hairmodel while simulating a dress.

Do not load an entire environment, only the chair that needs to interact with cloth.

Yes indeed - I loaded only the figure (G3F) and a single garment. Not even a chair for these tests.

Sometimes when returning, a pose series, the last frame does not get returned.

Anyone else seeing it? I haven't yet found a common denominator.

Writers_Block posted at 11:17AM Thu, 02 June 2016 - #4271078

Sometimes when returning, a pose series, the last frame does not get returned.

Anyone else seeing it? I haven't yet found a common denominator.

Could be a rounding issue. What FPS do you use ? VWD works with 30 FPS and the frame number has to be converted when Studio uses a different one.

It defaults to 30, and I never change it.

Writers_Block posted at 2:21PM Thu, 02 June 2016 - #4271176

It defaults to 30, and I never change it.

I'll have a look but, since I corrected this point in the V2 of the beta, I've never encountered it...

I've just uploaded a new version:

Bug corrections: Removed erroneous improvement on collision and cloth display stop hiding props and figures

Improvements: Better handling of script after VWD crash -> ensure previous script is finished before launching another one

Miscellaneous: Added an icon to start script

Link for downloading new version is still the same.

Next improvements are focused on Win 32bits compatibility Script crash when adding/removing nodes in scene while VWD is running

Is the beta a closed or public one?

RobotHeadArt posted at 2:19PM Mon, 13 June 2016 - #4272178

Is the beta a closed or public one?

It's a closed one. As soon as I'll have solved the bugs reported by the the closed beta testers, it will go public.

Hey all...

I'm looking for confirmation regarding the current VWD_EXE (with use of the DS bridge plug-in). Would one of you beta testers please check the "About Tab" in VWD, and let me know if it says that it is the 368 version, or the 366 version.

The Windows Properties dialog states it is the 368 version (which should be current), but my about tab states that it is the 366 version.

I am having many issues beta testing, and I am just trying to rule out that I have an incompatible (previous) version that needs updating, or not.

Thank you.

*EDIT: philemot, is there a way to confirm that I have the latest version of the bridge? I downloaded from my DAZ PM page, but it still feels like the previous version.

DaremoK3 posted at 11:10AM Wed, 15 June 2016 - #4272529

*EDIT: philemot, is there a way to confirm that I have the latest version of the bridge? I downloaded from my DAZ PM page, but it still feels like the previous version.

Actually yes. New version has now an icon linked to the script. Anyway, if the one you're speaking about the one with script sources, it hasn't been updated. I'll do it in a couple of hours.

philemot posted at 2:28PM Wed, 15 June 2016 - #4272546

DaremoK3 posted at 11:10AM Wed, 15 June 2016 - #4272529

*EDIT: philemot, is there a way to confirm that I have the latest version of the bridge? I downloaded from my DAZ PM page, but it still feels like the previous version.

Actually yes. New version has now an icon linked to the script. Anyway, if the one you're speaking about the one with script sources, it hasn't been updated. I'll do it in a couple of hours.

Sorry Ken, I've found a possible cause of DS freezing and the source is actually in full debug mode with logging everywhere and experimental code set. I'll tell you when it's ready to send.

Okay. Sorry, it was late, and I was very tired, but I do have the new version, because it has the icon.

Also, I noticed the corrections with the mesh objects. They seem to be working now as expected along the lines of the Poser version (keeping original prop mesh, and conforming mesh retains all root node data).

I am still getting the same VWD view-port issue that was also reported by the other testers, and are you going to stick with having the Normals Flag disabled?

I just find it more difficult working in VWD without smoothing, because the faceting sometimes throws off the actual draping visuals, especially when working with the Dynamic Deformation tool.

Good news though. I am no longer getting any fatal crashes with animated draping with this new version, so what ever you changed fixed the issue. I was able to run several back to back, and the Send Animation To Host is working flawlessly now.

Agree a dynamic drape got returned successful; it took so long to send I was convinced it would crash like previously at 100%, but it worked great; also even the final pose frame was returned.

Only issue, already mentioned, is the faciting/smoothing. Oh, I'm also getting weird artifacts; I'll post an image when I'm able to.

It seems to be going great.

I don't think any of us has shown the view-port issue, so here is screen-shot showing the issue. Also, both the Collision mesh, and the Cloth meshes are faceted without smoothing normals (an aside to the artifact issue). By comparison, the default VWD (Poser) does not have any artifacting issues, and smooth normals are on, so this is coming through the bridge.

I have the same trouble with the display. I mentioned it to Phil.

I've uploaded a new version:

Improvements: Better handling of script crash, can now accept adding or removing assets in studio (but don't forget to refresh host list in VWD)

Working now on the display. Normals are calculated by the native obj exporter from Studio, so I don't know very well what to do, but I'll look around.

philemot posted at 1:25PM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272723

I've uploaded a new version:

Improvements: Better handling of script crash, can now accept adding or removing assets in studio (but don't forget to refresh host list in VWD)

This should remove a lot of sources of Daz freezing, QTScript crash and son on

Working now on the display. Normals are calculated by the native obj exporter from Studio, so I don't know very well what to do, but I'll look around.

Correction. I realized a number of things while driving to work. The new version doesn't export normals. They are calculated by VWD. If I export normals, I have a kind of "moiré" all over the meshes. Looking more closely, this moiré seems to be linked to triangulation. Whatever I do, i cannot make the obj exporter to triangulates the quads. When the quads are imported in VWD, half the quad has a normal colour while the other half is black. I didn't have this problem with the Carrara plugin because I was exporting triangles. So, in order to solve the issue, I have to find a way to export triangles. the "triangulate nGons" option of the obj exporter doesn't work (it seems to consider that quads are not nGons). One possibility us to rewrite an obj exporter (as I did in Carrara) or triangulate the mesh before export (or a clone of the mesh). I'll make some test and see how it goes.

philemot, I think you are on to something with the triangulation, but I don't believe that is the entirety of the issue. In the image I posted above, the cloth mesh is a Marvelous Designer 2 Delaunay Unstructured Tri-mesh. Absolutely no quads, or n-gons in that mesh, and it displays correctly in default VWD (Poser).

Reading your assessment of the issue made me remember testing in default VWD, and employing Gérald's subdivision triangulation algorithm on collision objects. I was getting the same artifacting, so it might be something in VWD that is causing it, and not the exporter. I don't remember getting any artifacting on any of the cloth meshes I utilized the Sub-D algorithm with, so I didn't report it as a bug. Now, I believe it is a bug that should probably be addressed.

I went and found some screen-shots I took when I was performing tessellation testing. Below are examples in default VWD that show base collision objects without artifacting, and then with artifacting when Sub-D algorithm is used.

Stairs collision prop default:

Stairs collision prop Sub-D on:

Sword stand collision prop default tessellation:

Sword stand collision prop Sub-D tessellation (normal and wireframe):

And here is one more example showing both the collision object, and the cloth object with Sub-D on. There is no artifacting on the cloth object (all tris):

Oh, and one more thing...

You stated that VWD is supposed to be calculating the normals, but objects are coming into VWD through the bridge without any smoothing calcultaion by VWD. Both collision, and cloth objects are faceted without smoothing normals.

Daz Studio crashes when trying to start another instance of VWD (when one is already running). Pretty sure, previously I could have more than one running.

Writers_Block posted at 4:36PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272864

Daz Studio crashes when trying to start another instance of VWD (when one is already running). Pretty sure, previously I could have more than one running.

It's not supposed to crash It's what it does when I try:

I could even have 3 running simultaneously:

What kind of crash do you have ?

That's something I didn't even think about testing !

I'm rendering atm, so can't test; I do have what might be an observation. I seem to get more issues with hair, than with clothes.

I also use dynamics more on hair than clothes, so could simply be because of that.

I do get the pop up stating that VWD is already running too.

Smaker1 posted at 9:52PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272918

That's something I didn't even think about testing !

That's why it's good to have a few folks.

Daz Crashed. There were two instances of Daz open, but only the one that I had used VWD on crashed. I did a static simulation of hair. I adjusted it using the shift key. I returned the pose more than once. I closed VWD. It doesn't happen every time; but it happens periodically after doing same/similar actions. I will do more tweaking and return pose more than one additional time.

philemot posted at 1:29PM Sun, 19 June 2016 - #4272897

Writers_Block posted at 4:36PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272864

Daz Studio crashes when trying to start another instance of VWD (when one is already running). Pretty sure, previously I could have more than one running.

It's not supposed to crash It's what it does when I try:

I could even have 3 running simultaneously:

What kind of crash do you have ?

Been trying to get it to happen a few times, and not got it to repeat yet.

Excuse me for not having intervened earlier in this thread. The problem on the normals is linked to VWD, not to the bridge. I explain the problem. In VWD, I have to read the OBJ files, two times. One time to create the arrays in the program and a second time to generate the visual part of the element in the interface. To generate the arrays, the program don't need to read the texture vertices and the normals. It calculates these normals at each frame and copies them into the visual object in the interface. In Poser and In Carrara, the vertices and the normals are created with the same order and the normals are good for the calculation part and for the visualisation. In Daz Studio, the normals are not generated with the same order. The result stays correct for the calculation but is wrong for the display in VWD. I have wrote a new version which will correct this problem. I will send it as soon as some tests will be made.

Just watched the very helpful video tutorials (thank you Biscuit!) I'm definitely on board this amazing plugin.

The collision options are very well thought out. I particularly like the vertex selection and pinning design. Good job on the details...can't wait for the DS version to go final.

My biggest concern is the unintuitive interface language. Switching from Daz Studio 3Dmouse back to manual mouse I can deal with. But am not looking forward to awkward right click operations at all. If possible please stick to more universal sticky left click background for orbiting. Panning with right click and zooming with middle mouse is universal enough. Alternatively, add DS cube/ frame/ zoom-frame gizmos (what LAMH did).

More minor: please allow color selection for viewport. The white is too glarish as is, made more shocking when jumping back and forth from DS graphical interface styles, the popular Highway or pro-eyes-friendly Darkside.

No doubt the functionalities will satisfy the most stringent dynamic users. But ultimately ease-of-entry (interactive language familiarity) and overall user-friendliness is key to wider adoption.

Keep up the good works!

Mythico posted at 9:57AM Wed, 22 June 2016 - #4273282

Just watched the very helpful video tutorials (thank you Biscuit!) I'm definitely on board this amazing plugin.

The collision options are very well thought out. I particularly like the vertex selection and pinning design. Good job on the details...can't wait for the DS version to go final.

My biggest concern is the unintuitive interface language. Switching from Daz Studio 3Dmouse back to manual mouse I can deal with. But am not looking forward to awkward right click operations at all. If possible please stick to more universal sticky left click background for orbiting. Panning with right click and zooming with middle mouse is universal enough. Alternatively, add DS cube/ frame/ zoom-frame gizmos (what LAMH did).

More minor: please allow color selection for viewport. The white is too glarish as is, made more shocking when jumping back and forth from DS graphical interface styles, the popular Highway or pro-eyes-friendly Darkside.

No doubt the functionalities will satisfy the most stringent dynamic users. But ultimately ease-of-entry (interactive language familiarity) and overall user-friendliness is key to wider adoption.

Keep up the good works!

right click rocks, like blender.

Blender is cool but come on they have dynamics cloth and physics, and Poser Carrara Daz Studio all have left click sticky on orbit gizmo. Sounds like another custom option?

I agree with you, Mythico, but you really should add your wants to the thread "New functions for VWD".

This is for discussions concerning the DAZ Studio Bridge to VWD, and the author (Philemot) does not have any control what the author (VirtualWorldDynamics) will implement into the software. Hence, why there is a request forum thread (New functions for VWD).

Not trying to dissuade you at all. You have some great ideas there, and I second their implementation. Please post over at the other thread where VirtualWorldDynamics can keep track of them.

Right now, this thread is more about beta testing the bridge to VWD to get everything lined up for production release, but it will eventually be in the hands of the masses, and co-mingle with default VWD users. Both authors are working very hard (and the beta testers) to get the product in your hands, so you can play too.

I've just uploaded a new version (same link as usual). It corrects an issue with subdivision on in Studio. Mesh display issues will be dealt with by a new version of VWD (Gérald found and corrected the problem).

I've sent the new version of VWD to Jenn. It is this version which has to be used by the testers.

Hi guys, It's daz studio bridge still in closed beta phase ? completed soon?

I have been watching this forum too. Is it getting close to being ready?

It 's very close to being ready. Beta testers have reported two tricky issues I have yet to solve. One is for SubD clothes, the other one is about multiple launches of the bridge. As soon as those have been addressed, I'll submit the product for sale.

philemot posted at 10:41AM Sun, 10 July 2016 - #4275231

It 's very close to being ready. Beta testers have reported two tricky issues I have yet to solve. One is for SubD clothes, the other one is about multiple launches of the bridge. As soon as those have been addressed, I'll submit the product for sale.

I have my piggy bank at the ready, Philemot! :p

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but how easy is it to fit clothes for Victoria 4 onto the Genesis 3 Figure? Is there a lot of complex trickery involved, or is it a relatively smooth process? One of the big reasons I'm looking forward to this is breathing new life into old clothes; autofit has a way of making them look very unnatural, particularly skirts and dresses!

Ashfire45 posted at 1:11PM Sun, 10 July 2016 - #4275233

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but how easy is it to fit clothes for Victoria 4 onto the Genesis 3 Figure? Is there a lot of complex trickery involved, or is it a relatively smooth process? One of the big reasons I'm looking forward to this is breathing new life into old clothes; autofit has a way of making them look very unnatural, particularly skirts and dresses!

Once you have the cloth more or less fitting in T position (you can have small pokethrough that will be solved by static simulation), everything goes smoothly. In VWD, you have a setting allowing you to shrink the cloth by a percentage. So, if you start with cloth a bit too large, you should be able to have them fit without using autofit.

philemot posted at 3:54PM Sun, 10 July 2016 - #4275239

Ashfire45 posted at 1:11PM Sun, 10 July 2016 - #4275233

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but how easy is it to fit clothes for Victoria 4 onto the Genesis 3 Figure? Is there a lot of complex trickery involved, or is it a relatively smooth process? One of the big reasons I'm looking forward to this is breathing new life into old clothes; autofit has a way of making them look very unnatural, particularly skirts and dresses!

Once you have the cloth more or less fitting in T position (you can have small pokethrough that will be solved by static simulation), everything goes smoothly. In VWD, you have a setting allowing you to shrink the cloth by a percentage. So, if you start with cloth a bit too large, you should be able to have them fit without using autofit.

Absolutely wonderful. =D Thank you for responding, and the best of luck with those pesky errors! As soon as it's for sale, you'll find me as one of your first customers. :p

I'm definitely on board this train. Can't wait to play!