Now that there are products available to use V3 skin textures, V3 and M3 character morphs, and V3 & M3 (and the other 3rd generation DAZ figures) on Genesis 3 figures, could Renderosity make for sale again all the great old products they used to sell for those old figures? We can transfer the morphs, the skin and clothing fits to new figures. Thanks!

Sadly, we are struggling to keep products for V4 ... V3/M3/... are even harder. I do know there are dedicated fans of these figures. You may want to search for them and share your knowledge base among you. New stuff, probably not, rediscovered old stuff ... yeah, I'm sure you can have fun with that.

One of the reasons I buy so much here is the Poser support, especially the M4/V4 support. I hope that continues, rather than being pushed out by the DS/Genesis products. As a Carrara user, the Poser products work seamlessly, unlike the DS/DUF items.

I pretty much only use Poser ... and promote it's use as an ambassador through SM. I am also a fledgling vendor here so you will see Poser products from dedicated Poser users here. That won't go away anytime soon. I assure you.

Well then, maybe Renderosity could bring the old old products back for limited time sales, like when they've done sales of clearance products that have been deleted from the marketplace. The textures of those old characters are FAR superior to the textures being made now. Or maybe there's some other way to give buyers access to the products? Maybe someone could suggest it to whoever at Renderosity makes those kinds of decisions. There were some really incredible products! Thanks

Boni posted at 6:11PM Fri, 27 April 2018 - #4328905

I pretty much only use Poser ... and promote it's use as an ambassador through SM. I am also a fledgling vendor here so you will see Poser products from dedicated Poser users here. That won't go away anytime soon. I assure you.

Okay, thanks. I think. I'm always worried my wife will see my Order History (mostly thanks to Coflek-gnorg, Cybertenko, London224, Dante78, Dreamland Models, DryJack, Exnem, jonnte, and more ... all Poser Format.

Fauvist posted at 10:05PM Wed, 23 May 2018 - #4328942

Well then, maybe Renderosity could bring the old old products back for limited time sales, like when they've done sales of clearance products that have been deleted from the marketplace. The textures of those old characters are FAR superior to the textures being made now. Or maybe there's some other way to give buyers access to the products? Maybe someone could suggest it to whoever at Renderosity makes those kinds of decisions. There were some really incredible products! Thanks

seriously?? modern character skin textures are so much better quality , with the correct shader settings ( Poser, 3DL and Iray ) and lighting they are LIGHTYEARS ahead of the ones from the generation 3 era.( i do agree that some of those old textures were excellently made, for that era ) i have some old V3 ones that look fabulous when EZSkin and good lighting applied, but they do not come anywhere near what is now possible with the newer Iray, 3DL and Poser shaders/

I think the OP has a good question there. I've seen but not looked closely at the products that transfer old morphs forward to G3. I use G2 and G3, so it could be beneficial, but if older skin textures and clothing can be pulled forward, I think the question is; do those old products still exist in the Market Place somewhere deep and hidden, or were they permanently deleted? I don't know the answer. If they are permanently gone, well, that's that, but if you like the older feel and it works for your art, it makes no difference if the newer is technically better, you like what you like and it works for your art. I use GIMP mostly now, but when I do use PS, I use PS 6.0. I just like the way it feels better.

Maybe those products are still there and I just don't know how to use the search. Sometimes it doesn't matter how I search, I often get the opposite of whatever I'm searching for. But then, high tech computery stuff is baffling. I'm pretty sure computers are magical and you have to set your computer in the middle of the yard at midnight and dance around it while chanting incantations to get it to do anything useful.

Does anyone remember this? I'm still trying to figure out how to work it.

I never took to those newfangled calculators, A slide rule was good enough for my grand-pappy, and good enough for me! :P

3anson posted at 1:03PM Tue, 29 May 2018 - #4330476

Fauvist posted at 10:05PM Wed, 23 May 2018 - #4328942

Well then, maybe Renderosity could bring the old old products back for limited time sales, like when they've done sales of clearance products that have been deleted from the marketplace. The textures of those old characters are FAR superior to the textures being made now. Or maybe there's some other way to give buyers access to the products? Maybe someone could suggest it to whoever at Renderosity makes those kinds of decisions. There were some really incredible products! Thanks

seriously?? modern character skin textures are so much better quality , with the correct shader settings ( Poser, 3DL and Iray ) and lighting they are LIGHTYEARS ahead of the ones from the generation 3 era.( i do agree that some of those old textures were excellently made, for that era ) i have some old V3 ones that look fabulous when EZSkin and good lighting applied, but they do not come anywhere near what is now possible with the newer Iray, 3DL and Poser shaders/

I just rendered an old figure (Miki 2) and rendered her inside of Poser with SF (EzSkin setup) and inside of Studio with Iray (My own setup)and that skin texture is just as good if not better than most so called "modern character skins" Im kind of loving it all over again..lol Remember just because its new...doesn't mean its good. But ..seriously the market for that (old characters) has come and gone...time to move on.

diogenese19348 posted at 12:48PM Tue, 29 May 2018 - #4330767

I never took to those newfangled calculators, A slide rule was good enough for my grand-pappy, and good enough for me! :P

Ha, that's funny. My grandfather was an engineer. He tried to teach me to use a slide rule. He eventually got frustrated with me and gave me a bowl of marbles and told me to just use those to count with. I rather enjoyed my bowl of marbles.

wolfenshire posted at 2:04PM Tue, 29 May 2018 - #4330787

diogenese19348 posted at 12:48PM Tue, 29 May 2018 - #4330767

I never took to those newfangled calculators, A slide rule was good enough for my grand-pappy, and good enough for me! :P

Ha, that's funny. My grandfather was an engineer. He tried to teach me to use a slide rule. He eventually got frustrated with me and gave me a bowl of marbles and told me to just use those to count with. I rather enjoyed my bowl of marbles.

I was a Freshman in college when the Texas Instruments SR-10 came out. It did addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and square roots (which was the important part) and cost $150. The SR 50 came out in my junior year. Slide rules were still sold in the student book store, and some professors claimed they were far superior to calculators because as one put it "What if you're out in a field and the batteries die in your calculator?". We programmed on Punch Cards then, CRT terminals didn't come out until my Junior Year also. You submitted a punch card deck to operations, and would get the resulting printout the next day.

On the other hand, playing Zork was a blast.

Times have changed just a bit...

They have come a long way

My system still has an intuitive interface and requires no batteries....

Yeah I actually like yours better, That new one has just a little too much going on there which I don't need looks like a remote control on steroids.with a tiny screen to view what's on the TV..hmm which would be kind of cool could go to the bathroom and continue watching TV...Jesus I have too much time on my hands lmao..

I think time has passed TI by on the calculators. You can get graphing calculator apps for your phone or tablet. Why carry an extra device? TI is into IOT chips now, so they're going to be around for a while either way ;)

Time marches on.

So how do you do square roots with the marbles anyway?

Getting back to the original post.....are we all here? The older clothing for Vicky Three and Four is still great and surpasses the wardrobe offered for all of the genesis girls together. dforce, as buggy, half-implemented as it is, allows the terrific older fashions to be used on all the newer girls, and the new ladies sure do appreciate it. My girls are not into the new wave of sci-fi and fantasy weirdness. There are places where fans of all this old stuff hang out but linking to them, possibly even mentioning them will get me banned...again. It's not up to Rendo to keep these items here. When the content creator moves on or drops out, he/she takes their items with them making them NLA (No Longer Available). We need a determination similar to what the gamers pushed through. When a game is no longer supported by the publisher, AND a certain amount of time has lapsed, the game is deemed to be in the public domain and fans are welcome to it.

SheikhalMaktoum posted at 6:42AM Thu, 31 May 2018 - #4330903

Getting back to the original post.....are we all here? The older clothing for Vicky Three and Four is still great and surpasses the wardrobe offered for all of the genesis girls together. dforce, as buggy, half-implemented as it is, allows the terrific older fashions to be used on all the newer girls, and the new ladies sure do appreciate it. My girls are not into the new wave of sci-fi and fantasy weirdness. There are places where fans of all this old stuff hang out but linking to them, possibly even mentioning them will get me banned...again. It's not up to Rendo to keep these items here. When the content creator moves on or drops out, he/she takes their items with them making them NLA (No Longer Available). We need a determination similar to what the gamers pushed through. When a game is no longer supported by the publisher, AND a certain amount of time has lapsed, the game is deemed to be in the public domain and fans are welcome to it.

I thought Boni had already answered the question about older content. I can look into it further, no problem. But, if you need something more specific, such as sales or copyright expiration, you may get an answer quicker by contacting the marketplace people directly.

store@renderosity.com

SheikhalMaktoum posted at 10:02AM Thu, 31 May 2018 - #4330903

Getting back to the original post.....are we all here? The older clothing for Vicky Three and Four is still great and surpasses the wardrobe offered for all of the genesis girls together. dforce, as buggy, half-implemented as it is, allows the terrific older fashions to be used on all the newer girls, and the new ladies sure do appreciate it. My girls are not into the new wave of sci-fi and fantasy weirdness. There are places where fans of all this old stuff hang out but linking to them, possibly even mentioning them will get me banned...again. It's not up to Rendo to keep these items here. When the content creator moves on or drops out, he/she takes their items with them making them NLA (No Longer Available). We need a determination similar to what the gamers pushed through. When a game is no longer supported by the publisher, AND a certain amount of time has lapsed, the game is deemed to be in the public domain and fans are welcome to it.

For works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author or copyright owner plus an additional 70 years. 70 plus years is a long time to wait on the free for all of V3 clothing. So "we" as a community cant make that determination..not in our life time anyway, only the owner of said products can.

SheikhalMaktoum posted at 7:45AM Fri, 01 June 2018 - #4330903

Getting back to the original post.....are we all here? The older clothing for Vicky Three and Four is still great and surpasses the wardrobe offered for all of the genesis girls together. dforce, as buggy, half-implemented as it is, allows the terrific older fashions to be used on all the newer girls, and the new ladies sure do appreciate it. My girls are not into the new wave of sci-fi and fantasy weirdness. There are places where fans of all this old stuff hang out but linking to them, possibly even mentioning them will get me banned...again. It's not up to Rendo to keep these items here. When the content creator moves on or drops out, he/she takes their items with them making them NLA (No Longer Available). We need a determination similar to what the gamers pushed through. When a game is no longer supported by the publisher, AND a certain amount of time has lapsed, the game is deemed to be in the public domain and fans are welcome to it.

I think that only works for games because the original copyright owners don't have any financial incentive to stop it. In some cases the original owners GPL or public domain the works themselves simply because it would be too expensive to bring the game up to date and sell it profitably. You could probably get away with doing that with some no longer supported items for the same reasons, that of course would be severely frowned upon here for obvious reasons. Legally however, if the original copyright owner wants to take you to court over it, and has not released the copyrights, you wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on. And that includes games.

SheikhalMaktoum posted at 3:24AM Sat, 21 July 2018 - #4330903

Getting back to the original post.....are we all here? The older clothing for Vicky Three and Four is still great and surpasses the wardrobe offered for all of the genesis girls together. dforce, as buggy, half-implemented as it is, allows the terrific older fashions to be used on all the newer girls, and the new ladies sure do appreciate it. My girls are not into the new wave of sci-fi and fantasy weirdness. There are places where fans of all this old stuff hang out but linking to them, possibly even mentioning them will get me banned...again. It's not up to Rendo to keep these items here. When the content creator moves on or drops out, he/she takes their items with them making them NLA (No Longer Available). We need a determination similar to what the gamers pushed through. When a game is no longer supported by the publisher, AND a certain amount of time has lapsed, the game is deemed to be in the public domain and fans are welcome to it.

seriously? i agree there are some Genesis/Genesis2/3/8 outfits that are somewhat 'lackluster', but to lump the entirety of the Gen/Gen2/3/8 wardrobe is just a bit silly. there are outfits in the stores now that simply could NOT have been created with really ACCURATE textures back in the heyday of Victoria 4/Michael 4. yes, dForce is still lacking in some features, but please remember, the other main rendering apps dynamic system has had virtually NO updates or bug fixing/development since it was first introduced way back, long before i started with 3D ( late 2007). Daz3D has its quirks, as do most other companies, but their flagship program is continuously being updated and improved, bringing in more features and new tools very regularly.

i use both DazStudio and Poser, although the later does not get as much use as it did, purely because i cannot use my figures of choice natively in Poser, and because i love the renders i can get from the Iray PBR engine.

Heck, all these people who think the latest and shiniest are, like, the Best. Things. Ever! have forgotten how much fun some of the really older character meshes can be....

I had those same figures and they were OK.. However as your render shows they are dated, materials showing their age, did not scale well and the bends are not good.. not to mention only custom work on the shapes were the heads otherwise you had issues with clothes fitting. "Latest and greatest" doesn't have to be a bad thing when they actually fix issues I had with older figures.

It was a good thing when I could finally do shorter and younger characters with custom bodies and had the clothing fit.

But as some mentioned, selling items from vendors who stores have closed or did not expressly give permission to sell it after the product became unavailable is probably not a good thing legally. But honestly, for as long as those items were in the various stores, if you didn't get them in the decade they were available, I don't think the stores or vendors can really be blamed for that.

Well, bear in mind that my render isnt even M3. You have to go a bit further back to find this one. True, he has his limitations, but it's like restoring a Model T and letting it have some fun all over again. On the left, as Zygote originally sold him in 1998; on the right, what he looks like rescaled and retextures and generally all spruced up. :-) I've been able to put together a small, very barbaric wardrobe for him as his proportions are similar to the Freak 3 and 4, but he's not exactly a character that requires a whole lot.

Thing is, all of these old meshes are just fun to work with. Nope, not perfect, not weight-mapped, dont take to D-force too well (although they do nicely with dynamic stuff), but it's not like you drive an old car because it has four-wheel anti-lock brakes and power windows and satellite radio. LOL

I guess as long as you're having fun. Still "latest and greatest" still can mean issues are taken care of that people used to fight in older characters. So instead of trying to getting an old character workable, I can spend that time improving it rather than simple dial spins; work on things like improving lighting in renders and making complete scenes than trying to get clothing to fit. It also means I can reuse things too. I pulled a skin from a character that used to be sold here by one of my former partners.. either Liam or Eli for M4 (who I eventually made products here and at DAZ.. I also provided the morphs for a few characters he made here, but didn't ask for credit because it was for my practice). I converted it, cleaned up issues in photoshop and redid the materials, including making normal, roughness and SSS maps for it then put it on a new full custom body morph to see how it would look together. Still latest and greatest shouldn't be a bad word when we are working with improving our craft.

EDIT: But look at the orginal... https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/liam-for-m4/81749</https:> the fun for me is totally changing the mesh into something different, and still not fight with things like clothing.

SeanMartin posted at 7:27PM Tue, 21 August 2018 - #4334200

True, he has his limitations, but it's like restoring a Model T and letting it have some fun all over again.

I really love what Sean does with these older figures, but that's most likely b/c his work falls within a spectrum from "stylized to comic book" and that's the aesthetic I most enjoy in Poser renders. If your goal is to produce work like that, then you don't have much need for a skin texture that's "technically correct" down to the last pore (and so huge that it eats up half your texture cache!). Indeed, you might find that an older, lower-res, slightly more "airbrushed" skin, run through EZSkin for the awesome procedural bump + spec, is actually "better" for your purposes.

In other words, what we each consider "better" in a texture or model depends on what style we're aiming for when we put scenes together to render. If your goal is to produce photo-realistic renders, then you probably do need to use the newest stuff, as it's always improving towards that end. But if that's not your goal, then you can get a lot of good use out of older content, esp. if you can tweak it to take advantage of newer rendering technologies (SSS, IDL, etc.)

My primary figure is V4, and I now use the Sasha-16 version (which has a bunch of amazingly useful dials I wish all figures had, including height control), but even before I ever tried out a weight-mapped version of V4 I very rarely had problems with her bends b/c I put her in everyday clothes and everyday poses (nothing nude or extreme). I also very rarely had (and still rarely have) problems getting clothes and hair to fit or crafting a variety of different characters out of the ++/A4/G4 morph sets (plus Faerime). Most importantly, I just like working with her, as I've gotten to know how she works well enough that it's easy for me to get what I want with a few turns of the dials.

I've never used V3, but I do have Aiko 3 and find her very cute. If someone reorganized/improved her dials the way Karina did with the Sasha-16 version of V4, I'd use her a lot more often!

So I totally understand the preference for "older" figures, and it's too bad that it's so hard to find some of the older items made for them. Some folks have shared their items as freebies, but others have disappeared. The good news is, the kind of person who likes using the older figures is typically also the kind of person who doesn't mind using various hacks and tweaks to get newer stuff to work with them!

SeanMartin posted at 5:49PM Wed, 22 August 2018 - #4334200

Thing is, all of these old meshes are just fun to work with.

I thought of another reason why I like the way SeanMartin uses older figures: because he gives them such vivid personalities! My eye will always gravitate more towards the characters who look a bit "larger than life," as though they're "characters" in all senses of the word, conveying personality through expressions and body language -- even if their bends aren't perfect, their textures aren't hi-res, and their clothes don't have realistic wrinkles or whatever. But that's just my preference, not a commentary on what's "better" or not. And I suspect there are others out there who are glad to know they're not alone in their enjoyment of older figures!

I like V3 M3 and the rest of their extended family.

I guess I think it is dumb to have work that people have done as a sunk cost and that other people are willing to buy and say, 'no we're not going to sell it anymore because it is old and we have moved on.' To me it is recurring revenue with minimal effort. I think DAZ still offers V1 and V2 on occasion.

These characters are often a lot easier on computing resources. Many of them now can be put into crowd situations, especially with Poser being able to simply the clothing and the meshes.

Plus back in the day when they were at their peak pricing, my pocketbook and computer couldn't often handle the variety of textures available for clothing or hairstyles like it can now. My V3s are sunk costs. And they're fun. And if I see something interesting I don't mind adding to them. Plus not all of the newer stuff is really that good... some of it still looks like plastic. Please, nobody be offended. I'm just saying we will move on from today's latest and greatest, too. You may not realize this but when 78 RPMs were in vogue, people kept refining them. Many are 80 RPM and other subtleties with needles, etc. That's how I feel technologivally about some of the lighting things going on. They're incremental to the industry; notable to folks using them every day, but not such a big thing look from the outside, maybe.

I think as a community the more 3D stuff out there at reasonable costs the more people we will attract into the fold.

I mean, there are many companies that make brand new body parts for Model Ts, Model As, Mustangs, Camaros etc. You can build a new 1965 Mustang convertible from scratch as long as you have a valid VIN. https://www.cjponyparts.com/dynacorn-complete-body-shell-convertible-1965/p/MS65CV</https:>

consumer573 posted at 7:07PM Sun, 26 August 2018 - #4335292

I guess I think it is dumb to have work that people have done as a sunk cost and that other people are willing to buy and say, 'no we're not going to sell it anymore because it is old and we have moved on.' To me it is recurring revenue with minimal effort.

I'm sure Renderosity must have some kind of rationale for taking older products off the market, but I don't know where to look for it.

I do wonder how much has to do with the vendors who created those products, like maybe they don't want them available any longer, perhaps b/c they're no longer involved in 3D or feel the products don't adequately showcase their current skills?

I'm assuming that Renderosity would consider putting products for older figures back on the market if vendors updated them, perhaps with some new materials or promo renders. Vendors also have the option of making those older products available as freebies, here at Renderosity or elsewhere, so that at least their hard work continues to be useful. I suppose we'll never know why some of them don't do that unless they chime in!

perpetualrevision posted at 6:53AM Mon, 27 August 2018 - #4335335

consumer573 posted at 7:07PM Sun, 26 August 2018 - #4335292

I guess I think it is dumb to have work that people have done as a sunk cost and that other people are willing to buy and say, 'no we're not going to sell it anymore because it is old and we have moved on.' To me it is recurring revenue with minimal effort.

I'm sure Renderosity must have some kind of rationale for taking older products off the market, but I don't know where to look for it.

I do wonder how much has to do with the vendors who created those products, like maybe they don't want them available any longer, perhaps b/c they're no longer involved in 3D or feel the products don't adequately showcase their current skills?

I'm assuming that Renderosity would consider putting products for older figures back on the market if vendors updated them, perhaps with some new materials or promo renders. Vendors also have the option of making those older products available as freebies, here at Renderosity or elsewhere, so that at least their hard work continues to be useful. I suppose we'll never know why some of them don't do that unless they chime in!

I'm not sure how this topic is so hard to understand. Products are removed from the store due to:

1. Low sales and the products go into clearance and eventually removed.

2. Vendors request that the items are removed to any reason they wish. Could be they didn't want to sell it, wanted to close the store, or they died, etc...

Either way, the products can no longer be sold because since Renderosity is a brokerage, they do not own the products sold. So they can't simply can't put them up for sale again because they don't own the copyright to them.

The only way they would be sold again is if the vendor resubmits the product for sale, which would send it back through the QA process. But considering there are far more users of new items since users rotate in and out of the market every few years, there's probably not going to be the demand worth to update 15-20 year old products for 1-3 sales. If these items were on someone's wishlist and they didn't get it before the item is removed from the store, then it's lost to them unless they can track down the vendor and convince them to sell it.. but Rendo can't legally put removed products back up for sale unless they have their permission to do so. That's the bottom line.

There may be some stores that still have these items for sale, like Poseraddicts. I would suggest going to check out that store before they remove items as well.