Will Poser be free? Poser needs to increase its users.

Vaskania posted at 9:11AM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353817

Congrats on the acquisition. I went from DS to DS/Poser, and now fully back to DS, but still interested to see where things go from here.

Glitterati3D posted at 7:54PM Thu, 20 June 2019 - #4353806

Excuse me, but Bondware IS a software developer. They develop and market the software that runs the Renderosity site.

I think he's referring more to desktop software development. It depends on what languages Bondware's web frameworks run on and if they utilize any desktop software dev languages where the knowledge can cross over (ie using something like C/C++ in the backend). For instance, like Blender, Poser utilizes scripts and such written in Python, but at it's core Blender is written in C. I don't know what Poser's core is written in.

Thanks for saving me some typing. I can write a website from scratch, but aquiring software that runs on both Windows and MacOs and then writing the next version using that source code is something entirely different.

Congratulations to Renderosity!

Will some of the old Poser developer team get rehired to revamp & refresh Poser?

Also Maybe talk to Ambientshade... his Venus and Orion figures for Poser are very promising...

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2934900

Looking forward to see what Renderosity has planned for Poser!

anupaum posted at 7:15AM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353760

I've not been able to get bullet physics to work in Poser Pro 11. I had a LONG thread of interaction with John at SmithMicro about this, and we were never able to make it work. I'd like to see simulation functionality like we get with Marvelous Designer in the cloth room. That would be really nice!

Marvellous Designer is an entire program made specifically just for this. If you mean that you want to take a clothing made in MD and import it into Poser and see it move and bend like in MD inside Poser, I'm all for it - but if you mean you want to be able to create the clothing in Poser like in MD, that's like asking to be able to sculpt things like in Zbrush inside Cinema4d. Not feasible - that's too much to ask of a single program.

Glitterati3D posted at 9:27AM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353823

The important thing being, though, that they understand the development cycle and how to evaluate a market.

I should think Rondo is in a far better capacity to evaluate the market than anyone at this point. :-)

Good luck to everyone involved. We expect great things of you, so get to it or I'll be paying you a visit with a big stick.

Some suggestions:

1. Please update Poserfusion for Cinema 4D r20 asap.
2. Even better, resurrect InterPoser Pro--the original developer no longer supports it, so perhaps Renderosity could purchase it and integrate it into Poser.
3. Real support for Daz Genesis figures would be great. I've never gotten the Dson importer to really work. The Daz figures are great, but Daz Studio stinks for animating.
4. A decent lip sync utility. I am still using Daz's Mimic Pro, software that hasn't been updated in over a decade, because it's still the only way to get accurate lip sync.

Heya - dumb question regarding the old SM forum content: Have you considered setting up a moderated wiki page and seeding it with the tech bits from the old SM forums?

This way there'd be a more-or-less purpose-built place for useful tech info to go (and more importantly, stay).

SeanMartin posted at 12:35PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353871

Glitterati3D posted at 9:27AM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353823

The important thing being, though, that they understand the development cycle and how to evaluate a market.

I should think Rondo is in a far better capacity to evaluate the market than anyone at this point. :-)

So very true, since they really are the only marketplace that caters to ALL facets of the market.

I'm going to make a suggestion which may not be popular, but here goes. Work on the core of poser so it will support the DAZ weight mapping systems, you don't even have to make a genesis import. It will at least give 3rd party developer a chance to make the plugins to do it. Plus those weight mapping systems are industry standard for games and poser fusion will also need them. Instead 2 communities heading in different direction start going in the same, it's a win win situations for Daz and Poser. Renderosity has a huge stake in this now so Poser must succeed or the market will keep declining. Having more figures in poser will bring more using, which mean more money for development !. So best of luck guys I hope it goes well.

RobZhena posted at 6:36PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353697

I certainly hope this saves Poser. I popped over because I was curious that all my privileges had disappeared at SM and nothing had been posted in 7 hours.

Hey Rob, that's because the SM Poser forum is now Read Only, so no one can post anything on that forum anymore.

tonyvilters posted at 6:39PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353615

Whaw, talking about NEWS. I was already a member here when it was still the BLUE site. Oh, I must be becoming an old timer fast.

I've been here since early 2000, and only hung out in the Bryce forum because Bryce 4 was the only 3D software I was using back then, and this was the only 3D site that HAD a Bryce forum. You think you're becoming an old timer fast? How should I feel??

This probably ain't gonna be a popular suggestion either, but Poser needs a better render engine. Right now poser don't take advantage of me processors as it should.

It'd be cool if Poser adopted IRAY which is a much better engine than Cycles/Superfly. It'd also allow all materials across da two big softwares to be usable in both. Then Posers lighting needs addressed. Then onto some decent base figures. If you can't get great renders and great lighting outta yur software, great figures are relatively worthless since rendering good stuff is massively dependent on those 2 things.

Interesting to see what happens.

sloan posted at 6:54PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354006

This probably ain't gonna be a popular suggestion either, but Poser needs a better render engine. Right now poser don't take advantage of me processors as it should.

It'd be cool if Poser adopted IRAY which is a much better engine than Cycles/Superfly. It'd also allow all materials across da two big softwares to be usable in both. Then Posers lighting needs addressed. Then onto some decent base figures. If you can't get great renders and great lighting outta yur software, great figures are relatively worthless since rendering good stuff is massively dependent on those 2 things.

Interesting to see what happens.

Cycles is a good render engine. It's just the implementation in Poser that's off ;). If they would just plop Cycles in there, all the nodes and all, it would be better. But there's a lot of stuff in Poser that needs to be addressed. I hope they're prepared for what's ahead :). Will be watching. I would like to see them make it so that Poser can use Genesis figures of course, but I'm not going to hold my breath over it. It would be in their best interest tho, as a brokerage who sells for both pieces of software, to do so, but we'll wait and see. Even as a DS user now I'm not convinced that Iray is the better render engine. It's just that Daz made Iray easy to use in DS and SM made Cycles harder to use in Poser (that darn material system...but that's an argument for another day...lol).

Laurie

midnight_stories posted at 7:26PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354000

I'm going to make a suggestion which may not be popular, but here goes. Work on the core of poser so it will support the DAZ weight mapping systems, you don't even have to make a genesis import. It will at least give 3rd party developer a chance to make the plugins to do it. Plus those weight mapping systems are industry standard for games and poser fusion will also need them. Instead 2 communities heading in different direction start going in the same, it's a win win situations for Daz and Poser. Renderosity has a huge stake in this now so Poser must succeed or the market will keep declining. Having more figures in poser will bring more using, which mean more money for development !. So best of luck guys I hope it goes well.

I'll say it won't be popular. But for the 1000th time, let's consider why. Genesis works in DS, but it doesn't work in Poser. Poser figures work in Poser, but not in DS. So let's say we get DS weightmapping and lighting to work in Poser. All of Studio's content now works in Poser, but none of Poser's content works in DS or Poser now for that matter and because it was made with Poser's current lighting in mind, it looks terrible to boot. Now, true, this could be a boon to both Renderosity and DAZ as long time customers of 20 or so years find that none of their Poser content works now and they have to buy all new content to replace the stuff that won't work now. But perhaps I'm painting too grim a picture. Of course, DS is free. You could use all the money you'll save not buying Poser to replace all the content you'll lose in the process. Yeah, I'm willing to bet everyone will be down with that.

EClark1894 posted at 7:52PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354014

midnight_stories posted at 7:26PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354000

I'm going to make a suggestion which may not be popular, but here goes. Work on the core of poser so it will support the DAZ weight mapping systems, you don't even have to make a genesis import. It will at least give 3rd party developer a chance to make the plugins to do it. Plus those weight mapping systems are industry standard for games and poser fusion will also need them. Instead 2 communities heading in different direction start going in the same, it's a win win situations for Daz and Poser. Renderosity has a huge stake in this now so Poser must succeed or the market will keep declining. Having more figures in poser will bring more using, which mean more money for development !. So best of luck guys I hope it goes well.

I'll say it won't be popular. But for the 1000th time, let's consider why. Genesis works in DS, but it doesn't work in Poser. Poser figures work in Poser, but not in DS. So let's say we get DS weightmapping and lighting to work in Poser. All of Studio's content now works in Poser, but none of Poser's content works in DS or Poser now for that matter and because it was made with Poser's current lighting in mind, it looks terrible to boot. Now, true, this could be a boon to both Renderosity and DAZ as long time customers of 20 or so years find that none of their Poser content works now and they have to buy all new content to replace the stuff that won't work now. But perhaps I'm painting too grim a picture. Of course, DS is free. You could use all the money you'll save not buying Poser to replace all the content you'll lose in the process. Yeah, I'm willing to bet everyone will be down with that.

The only Poser figures that won't work in DS are the newest ones with Poser weight mapping (much like the newer Daz weight mapped figures won't work in Poser). All the older ones still work. I still use Poser figures and stuff in DS all the time. Anything made before Poser 9 works just fine. I can use the non-weight mapped Miki's in DS if I want to. Remember - up until Genesis 1, Daz figures were more or less made FOR Poser ;).

Laurie

LaurieA posted at 8:06PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354016

EClark1894 posted at 7:52PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354014

midnight_stories posted at 7:26PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354000

I'm going to make a suggestion which may not be popular, but here goes. Work on the core of poser so it will support the DAZ weight mapping systems, you don't even have to make a genesis import. It will at least give 3rd party developer a chance to make the plugins to do it. Plus those weight mapping systems are industry standard for games and poser fusion will also need them. Instead 2 communities heading in different direction start going in the same, it's a win win situations for Daz and Poser. Renderosity has a huge stake in this now so Poser must succeed or the market will keep declining. Having more figures in poser will bring more using, which mean more money for development !. So best of luck guys I hope it goes well.

I'll say it won't be popular. But for the 1000th time, let's consider why. Genesis works in DS, but it doesn't work in Poser. Poser figures work in Poser, but not in DS. So let's say we get DS weightmapping and lighting to work in Poser. All of Studio's content now works in Poser, but none of Poser's content works in DS or Poser now for that matter and because it was made with Poser's current lighting in mind, it looks terrible to boot. Now, true, this could be a boon to both Renderosity and DAZ as long time customers of 20 or so years find that none of their Poser content works now and they have to buy all new content to replace the stuff that won't work now. But perhaps I'm painting too grim a picture. Of course, DS is free. You could use all the money you'll save not buying Poser to replace all the content you'll lose in the process. Yeah, I'm willing to bet everyone will be down with that.

The only Poser figures that won't work in DS are the newest ones with Poser weight mapping (much like the newer Daz weight mapped figures won't work in Poser). All the older ones still work. I still use Poser figures and stuff in DS all the time. Anything made before Poser 9 works just fine. I can use the non-weight mapped Miki's in DS if I want to. Remember - up until Genesis 1, Daz figures were more or less made FOR Poser ;).

Laurie

Hmm... a mea culpa may be due. I loaded Ben to see if he did work, and was able to pose him. Of course this was in 4.8 so maybe things have changed. When I first loaded a G2 figure from Poser back when I had version 2 it didn't work.

EClark1894 posted at 8:15PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354017

LaurieA posted at 8:06PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354016

EClark1894 posted at 7:52PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354014

midnight_stories posted at 7:26PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354000

I'm going to make a suggestion which may not be popular, but here goes. Work on the core of poser so it will support the DAZ weight mapping systems, you don't even have to make a genesis import. It will at least give 3rd party developer a chance to make the plugins to do it. Plus those weight mapping systems are industry standard for games and poser fusion will also need them. Instead 2 communities heading in different direction start going in the same, it's a win win situations for Daz and Poser. Renderosity has a huge stake in this now so Poser must succeed or the market will keep declining. Having more figures in poser will bring more using, which mean more money for development !. So best of luck guys I hope it goes well.

I'll say it won't be popular. But for the 1000th time, let's consider why. Genesis works in DS, but it doesn't work in Poser. Poser figures work in Poser, but not in DS. So let's say we get DS weightmapping and lighting to work in Poser. All of Studio's content now works in Poser, but none of Poser's content works in DS or Poser now for that matter and because it was made with Poser's current lighting in mind, it looks terrible to boot. Now, true, this could be a boon to both Renderosity and DAZ as long time customers of 20 or so years find that none of their Poser content works now and they have to buy all new content to replace the stuff that won't work now. But perhaps I'm painting too grim a picture. Of course, DS is free. You could use all the money you'll save not buying Poser to replace all the content you'll lose in the process. Yeah, I'm willing to bet everyone will be down with that.

The only Poser figures that won't work in DS are the newest ones with Poser weight mapping (much like the newer Daz weight mapped figures won't work in Poser). All the older ones still work. I still use Poser figures and stuff in DS all the time. Anything made before Poser 9 works just fine. I can use the non-weight mapped Miki's in DS if I want to. Remember - up until Genesis 1, Daz figures were more or less made FOR Poser ;).

Laurie

Hmm... a mea culpa may be due. I loaded Ben to see if he did work, and was able to pose him. Of course this was in 4.8 so maybe things have changed. When I first loaded a G2 figure from Poser back when I had version 2 it didn't work.

To be honest, I could never get any DS version before DS3 Advanced to work on any of my computers ;). Buggy messes they were...lol. But now it's a bit different. :) But I digress....

I've got good vibes going out to the Rendo team for Poser, so I'll definitely be lurking around. LOL

Laurie

LaurieA posted at 8:21PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354018

EClark1894 posted at 8:15PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354017

LaurieA posted at 8:06PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354016

EClark1894 posted at 7:52PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354014

midnight_stories posted at 7:26PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354000

I'm going to make a suggestion which may not be popular, but here goes. Work on the core of poser so it will support the DAZ weight mapping systems, you don't even have to make a genesis import. It will at least give 3rd party developer a chance to make the plugins to do it. Plus those weight mapping systems are industry standard for games and poser fusion will also need them. Instead 2 communities heading in different direction start going in the same, it's a win win situations for Daz and Poser. Renderosity has a huge stake in this now so Poser must succeed or the market will keep declining. Having more figures in poser will bring more using, which mean more money for development !. So best of luck guys I hope it goes well.

I'll say it won't be popular. But for the 1000th time, let's consider why. Genesis works in DS, but it doesn't work in Poser. Poser figures work in Poser, but not in DS. So let's say we get DS weightmapping and lighting to work in Poser. All of Studio's content now works in Poser, but none of Poser's content works in DS or Poser now for that matter and because it was made with Poser's current lighting in mind, it looks terrible to boot. Now, true, this could be a boon to both Renderosity and DAZ as long time customers of 20 or so years find that none of their Poser content works now and they have to buy all new content to replace the stuff that won't work now. But perhaps I'm painting too grim a picture. Of course, DS is free. You could use all the money you'll save not buying Poser to replace all the content you'll lose in the process. Yeah, I'm willing to bet everyone will be down with that.

The only Poser figures that won't work in DS are the newest ones with Poser weight mapping (much like the newer Daz weight mapped figures won't work in Poser). All the older ones still work. I still use Poser figures and stuff in DS all the time. Anything made before Poser 9 works just fine. I can use the non-weight mapped Miki's in DS if I want to. Remember - up until Genesis 1, Daz figures were more or less made FOR Poser ;).

Laurie

Hmm... a mea culpa may be due. I loaded Ben to see if he did work, and was able to pose him. Of course this was in 4.8 so maybe things have changed. When I first loaded a G2 figure from Poser back when I had version 2 it didn't work.

To be honest, I could never get any DS version before DS3 Advanced to work on any of my computers ;). Buggy messes they were...lol. But now it's a bit different. :) But I digress....

I've got good vibes going out to the Rendo team for Poser, so I'll definitely be lurking around. LOL

Laurie

Don't feel bad. Before DS 4.8 I could only get DS 2 to even install on my Mac.

LaurieA posted at 8:24PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4354016

The only Poser figures that won't work in DS are the newest ones with Poser weight mapping (much like the newer Daz weight mapped figures won't work in Poser). All the older ones still work. I still use Poser figures and stuff in DS all the time. Anything made before Poser 9 works just fine. I can use the non-weight mapped Miki's in DS if I want to. Remember - up until Genesis 1, Daz figures were more or less made FOR Poser ;).

Laurie

Agreed. I started using DS 2 on my old laptop, and 98% of my Runtime was made up of products created for use in Poser. I then upgraded to DS 3Advanced when I got this laptop, because I wasn't able to install DS 2 on it. All of that Runtime, and for a number of years until I went back to using Poser, all of my Poser compatible products are installed in my DS 3Advanced Runtime. I then went with DS 4.0 Pro when the original Genesis came out, but I haven't upgraded DS 4 since, so that's the only content I have installed in that Runtime, but I can still access all the Poser content from my DS 3Advanced Runtime while working in DS 4.

I've since gone back to using Poser with P9, and more recently PP11, but my DS 3A Runtime is STILL my largest Runtime, and as Laurie said only the newest Poser figures, such as LaFemme and Project Evolution, have weight mapping that won't work in my older versions of DS, but everything I had purchased prior to the original Genesis presentation to the public is still very usable in both my DS versions.

Well, I knew everything from version 6 on back probably worked in DS anyway. I was surprised about the G2 figures though. That was when Poser made some changes to the rigging.

I'm pretty sure everything in my P9 Runtime works in DS as well, though as I mentioned earlier, I don't have the most recent version of DS4, so not sure about them in that version.

sloan posted at 5:58AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354006

This probably ain't gonna be a popular suggestion either, but Poser needs a better render engine. Right now poser don't take advantage of me processors as it should.

It'd be cool if Poser adopted IRAY which is a much better engine than Cycles/Superfly. It'd also allow all materials across da two big softwares to be usable in both. Then Posers lighting needs addressed. Then onto some decent base figures. If you can't get great renders and great lighting outta yur software, great figures are relatively worthless since rendering good stuff is massively dependent on those 2 things.

Interesting to see what happens.

IRAY has been very successful but it only works on NVIDIA cards. Users on AMD or Intel equipped graphics hardware would not only face the cost of the software update but would also need to buy a new GPU. It also would not solve the problem of converting old runtime shader trees to a new format and make them work as expected. Moving to IRAY would make it easier to support newer DS content. I think this highlights the classic Poser user dilemma of wanting to keep using the old content but also have access the newer DS products too. One thought is to expand on the existing Poser API and make the platform more open to allow third parties to add alternative render engines such as IRAY - pie in the sky and all that

Love this news. Exciting.

Bondware now owns Poser. Much of Posers future will depend on how fast Bondware wants a return on investment from Renderosity.

As far as content compatibility between both apps goes? It will take some handshaking between Bondware and DAZ but when one makes "content" fully compatible between both apps and with DS being free and Poser to make money from? That outcome seems predictable.

Something Bondware and Renderosity will certainly have meetings with DAZ over.

As i stated in my opening; Much will depend on how fast Bondware expects a return on investment from Renderosity.

And that will depend largely if the new Renderosity Poser team can find a fix for Posers Masterbug => The internal handling of the obj file.

Best regards, but above all, congrats to the Bondware / Renderosity team for the peaceful buy-over.

@ Afrodite-Ohki :

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Poser's Cloth Room regarding anupaum's request.

First, I believe the possible desire is for interactive cloth simulation which is available in Marvelous Designer (and VWD for Poser), but that is only a guess due to them only referencing MD's simulation functionality.

Where I disagree is your analogy of Poser cloth with sculpting for ZBrush in C4D.

I was compiling a treatise on Poser Cloth Room (shut down by SM's dismissal of my inquiries), and was in talks with a well know Poser Cloth Room expert with his own site who studied as much as I did regarding this subject, but we ended in odds regarding a fundamental fact of origins which can only be cleared up by the software originator (Size8 - now defunct), or possibly the licensee (SM - at the time).

I have written about this in length in the past, so I won't go into all the details again, but to sum-up: Poser's Cloth Room module is one half of the original 2 module cloth system named 'Stich' (for 3DSMax) which comprised of a cloth making module and a cloth simulation module. Size8 split up the modules, and licensed the cloth simulator to Poser (Poser 5 -- if memory serves, I believe under Curious Labs at the time).

It is now fully integrated into 3DSMax (possibly sold outright), and was renamed to 'ClothFX'. For a few years, one could still purchase it individually from Turbosquid under Size8, but that disappeared years ago (hence, the belief Size8 software is no more).

I am not privy to the licensing deal Poser had with Size8, nor the longevity of it, but it seems to be for a permanent lifetime usage/inclusion.

My hope, and what I have been waiting for for years, is for Poser to license the other half of the system, the cloth maker module, which would give us the full Marvelous Designer implementation just as we have with 3DSMax (if they upgrade to the current simulation module as well, which has the interactive drape functionality). I highly doubt it, and don't believe it might be possible if AutoDesk truly owns the full modules. If they were licensing as well, how did they get interactive simulation, and Poser did not get the update? I believe AD coded it themselves inhouse...

This is what prevented me from purchasing PP11, and will prevent me from purchasing PP12 when it comes out if not included as well. I already have several dissappointing versions up to PP2014, and own 1st generation Marvelous Designer 2, and VWD for Poser and DAZ Studio, as well as coding a MD clone with Blender, so I have my needs pretty much covered -- but, it would still be nice, and for others who wish it as well, if it came to pass.

Side Note : Congratulations Rendo, for the acquisition. I believe it is in good hands -- any plans to pull Larry out of retirement again? And, I don't know all the details of what happened with the original PP12 team change, but I would like to put in a vote to get Nerd back on board as managing director again...

Ladonna posted at 6:13AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354061

Love this news. Exciting.

That;s how I feel, too, La Donna. Nice to see a plain simple statement of joy among all the negativity. Thanks for making me feel the excitement again with your simple words.

Glitterati3D posted at 6:33AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354070

Ladonna posted at 6:13AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354061

Love this news. Exciting.

That;s how I feel, too, La Donna. Nice to see a plain simple statement of joy among all the negativity. Thanks for making me feel the excitement again with your simple words.

I don't view it as negativity. Merely people expressing their concerns, hopes and desires to make Poser better. I may be wrong, but I don't think I've read one hope by anyone that Poser fails and is discontinued.

Glitterati3D posted at 12:55PM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354070

Ladonna posted at 6:13AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354061

Love this news. Exciting.

That;s how I feel, too, La Donna. Nice to see a plain simple statement of joy among all the negativity. Thanks for making me feel the excitement again with your simple words.

Negativity, yes, we hear enough of it. ? But for now, I am just really excited about it and impatient to hear more awesome news about the future of Poser.

EClark1894 posted at 7:08AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354078

Glitterati3D posted at 6:33AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354070

Ladonna posted at 6:13AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354061

Love this news. Exciting.

That;s how I feel, too, La Donna. Nice to see a plain simple statement of joy among all the negativity. Thanks for making me feel the excitement again with your simple words.

I don't view it as negativity. Merely people expressing their concerns, hopes and desires to make Poser better. I may be wrong, but I don't think I've read one hope by anyone that Poser fails and is discontinued.

So, you don't think all these DAZ vendors who want to see Poser made into DS2.0 so THEY can sell more Genesis items while cutting the throat of La Femme and Dawn and PE is negative? Somehow, I do.

What the hell do we NEED Poser for if it's just going to be DS2.0?

Glitterati3D posted at 7:43AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354087

EClark1894 posted at 7:08AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354078

Glitterati3D posted at 6:33AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354070

Ladonna posted at 6:13AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354061

Love this news. Exciting.

That;s how I feel, too, La Donna. Nice to see a plain simple statement of joy among all the negativity. Thanks for making me feel the excitement again with your simple words.

I don't view it as negativity. Merely people expressing their concerns, hopes and desires to make Poser better. I may be wrong, but I don't think I've read one hope by anyone that Poser fails and is discontinued.

So, you don't think all these DAZ vendors who want to see Poser made into DS2.0 so THEY can sell more Genesis items while cutting the throat of La Femme and Dawn and PE is negative? Somehow, I do.

What the hell do we NEED Poser for if it's just going to be DS2.0?

I didn't say I AGREED with them. But no I don't see it as a negative.

@Ironsoul

Yea, I hear ya bout the Nvidia thing, but my point is that right now Superfly don't take advantage of all da bell n whistles I got. I've used both programs, prefer Poser interface, and I can render out the same scene in Iray in DS with all settings jacked to max in 1/2 an hour and it takes Superfly 6-8 hours to do the same. That's a huge variable and the results ain't nearly as good outta Poser. I'd be just as happy if the Octane engine was incorporated. Even if Poser adopted Iray, with all the folks around who do the programmin thing, I'm sure someone could write a conversion system like was done for Poser Mats to DS. I ain't too worried about backwards conversion though, see? Part of what's held Poser back for so long is that mindset that everything I used a billion years ago should still work for the rest of my young life. Dat ain't gonna help me none, yanno?

There seems to be this argument here that having just acquired Poser the first thing Rendo should do is change it so users can get all the content they want from Rendo's main competition. I see no sense whatever in making Poser compatible with DAZ figures. We don't know what sort of development team Poser will have, but it's unlikely to be huge. If they are constantly busy updating Poser to be compatible with DS when will they have the time to do all the other improvements users want? And who is going to buy software that mimics a free program six months to a year at least later and costs 200usd? Yes Rendo might initially sell a few extra copies of Poser if they did this, but how much would they lose in content sales as users stop buying new native content, which Rendo is now the major vendor, and switch to DS content in which Rendo has a very serious competitor? I believe that for Poser to flourish Rendo must strive to create a thriving unique eco-system or it. Many people have talked about the importance of getting the right development team on board. I believe a an equal if not greater priority should be to hire a content development team and to encourage other vendors either through commissions or preferential sale terms to start creating more content for poser. The way poser is now being sold, only p11 being sold at good discount is I believe a correct step. Vendors should not have to worry about backwards compatibility for their products. (This is different for Poser itself for which it is essential that backwards compatibility be retained, how many users would upgrade to a version of poser that no longer supported V4/M4 for example?) I hope this acquisition does move Poser forward, with a balanced emphasis on new features and better content.

Nails60 posted at 8:05AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354092

There seems to be this argument here that having just acquired Poser the first thing Rendo should do is change it so users can get all the content they want from Rendo's main competition. I see no sense whatever in making Poser compatible with DAZ figures. We don't know what sort of development team Poser will have, but it's unlikely to be huge. If they are constantly busy updating Poser to be compatible with DS when will they have the time to do all the other improvements users want? And who is going to buy software that mimics a free program six months to a year at least later and costs 200usd? Yes Rendo might initially sell a few extra copies of Poser if they did this, but how much would they lose in content sales as users stop buying new native content, which Rendo is now the major vendor, and switch to DS content in which Rendo has a very serious competitor? I believe that for Poser to flourish Rendo must strive to create a thriving unique eco-system or it. Many people have talked about the importance of getting the right development team on board. I believe a an equal if not greater priority should be to hire a content development team and to encourage other vendors either through commissions or preferential sale terms to start creating more content for poser. The way poser is now being sold, only p11 being sold at good discount is I believe a correct step. Vendors should not have to worry about backwards compatibility for their products. (This is different for Poser itself for which it is essential that backwards compatibility be retained, how many users would upgrade to a version of poser that no longer supported V4/M4 for example?) I hope this acquisition does move Poser forward, with a balanced emphasis on new features and better content.

Exactly right, Nails60.

Despite the years of "Poser rigging sucks" La Femme is absolute proof that in the hands of a competent rigger, Poser's rigging is not only excellent, but competitive. All that Renderosity needs is the vendors to show their stuff and discover how easy it really is to make Poser add-ons. The rigging tools that were released with La Femme 1.1 is a huge leap forward in making their task easier, faster and more efficient.

Nails60 posted at 7:47AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354092

There seems to be this argument here that having just acquired Poser the first thing Rendo should do is change it so users can get all the content they want from Rendo's main competition. I see no sense whatever in making Poser compatible with DAZ figures. We don't know what sort of development team Poser will have, but it's unlikely to be huge. If they are constantly busy updating Poser to be compatible with DS when will they have the time to do all the other improvements users want? And who is going to buy software that mimics a free program six months to a year at least later and costs 200usd? Yes Rendo might initially sell a few extra copies of Poser if they did this, but how much would they lose in content sales as users stop buying new native content, which Rendo is now the major vendor, and switch to DS content in which Rendo has a very serious competitor? I believe that for Poser to flourish Rendo must strive to create a thriving unique eco-system or it. Many people have talked about the importance of getting the right development team on board. I believe a an equal if not greater priority should be to hire a content development team and to encourage other vendors either through commissions or preferential sale terms to start creating more content for poser. The way poser is now being sold, only p11 being sold at good discount is I believe a correct step. Vendors should not have to worry about backwards compatibility for their products. (This is different for Poser itself for which it is essential that backwards compatibility be retained, how many users would upgrade to a version of poser that no longer supported V4/M4 for example?) I hope this acquisition does move Poser forward, with a balanced emphasis on new features and better content.

Agreed. I mean, DS is free. Anyone who wants to use DAZ content can just use DS. Just as a customer, I'd rather see them work on making Poser better than spending their limited resources trying to make it compatible with DS.

I do wonder if the Poser vs. DS wars are going to continue forever here. I don't recall seeing much of it at the SM forums. Not sure if people didn't bother, since it was the official home of Poser, if they had stricter moderation, or if I just happened to miss it.

Hang on.

Poser has the Add-Ons system which already allows for third-party plug-ins - for example, look at the Reality bridge to Luxrender, and the Octane plug-in to Octane Render. (BTW, Octane has support for Instancing so if you're using the plug-in you can do Instancing from Poser ...) Therefore someone could make a bridge to Iray (though I personally wouldn't see much point, but hey).

If you want cross-app compatibility with materials look at PBR Metal/Rough or PBR Spec/Gloss workflows, which Poser supports via Cycles, does a sort-of reasonable approximation via Firefly, and are also IIRC supported by Octane and Iray - along with many other apps these days.

Poser also supports FBX - while I haven't used it much, it does provide the possibility to transfer simple rigs between different apps and is used for games. Not sure when that was last updated though as FBX is proprietary and there are several different versions.

Point being, while there is plenty of stuff that could be changed/added (and that will never change no matter what happens), there are already things in Poser that seem to me to be under-used, or even ignored ...

tonyvilters posted at 9:12AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354062

Bondware now owns Poser. Much of Posers future will depend on how fast Bondware wants a return on investment from Renderosity.

As far as content compatibility between both apps goes? It will take some handshaking between Bondware and DAZ but when one makes "content" fully compatible between both apps and with DS being free and Poser to make money from? That outcome seems predictable.

Something Bondware and Renderosity will certainly have meetings with DAZ over.

As i stated in my opening; Much will depend on how fast Bondware expects a return on investment from Renderosity.

And that will depend largely if the new Renderosity Poser team can find a fix for Posers Masterbug => The internal handling of the obj file.

Best regards, but above all, congrats to the Bondware / Renderosity team for the peaceful buy-over.

You forget some things: there are people that prefer the Poser interface over DS and would be willing to pay for that useability. Also, the trick, even if it had DS figure compatibility, is for Poser to have what DS doesn't and so far, it's ahead of the game there by a very slim margin. If it can include things that DS doesn't have, or things that are denied regular DS users and only allowed to PA's, they could probably pull it off. People have gone over to Character Creator and that costs money as well. We'll just have to see how things flesh out.

Laurie

[Glitterati3D]

So, you don't think all these DAZ vendors who want to see Poser made into DS2.0 so THEY can sell more Genesis items while cutting the throat of La Femme and Dawn and PE is negative? Somehow, I do.

What the hell do we NEED Poser for if it's just going to be DS2.0?

Gotta be honest, not all DAZ vendors wanna see poser made into d/s....that is what d/s is for. While I have no use for poser anymore, it was a big part of my growth as a vendor, and I am very interested to see how it grows. But I can see how alot of poser users might be interested in being able to use genesis items, so it is up to the new owners to decide how inclusive they want to be with it all. A big part of rosities market is for d/s products now, so for them alone it would be a benefit.

DaremoK3 posted at 9:15AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354063

@ Afrodite-Ohki :

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Poser's Cloth Room regarding anupaum's request.

First, I believe the possible desire is for interactive cloth simulation which is available in Marvelous Designer (and VWD for Poser), but that is only a guess due to them only referencing MD's simulation functionality.

Where I disagree is your analogy of Poser cloth with sculpting for ZBrush in C4D.

I was compiling a treatise on Poser Cloth Room (shut down by SM's dismissal of my inquiries), and was in talks with a well know Poser Cloth Room expert with his own site who studied as much as I did regarding this subject, but we ended in odds regarding a fundamental fact of origins which can only be cleared up by the software originator (Size8 - now defunct), or possibly the licensee (SM - at the time).

I have written about this in length in the past, so I won't go into all the details again, but to sum-up: Poser's Cloth Room module is one half of the original 2 module cloth system named 'Stich' (for 3DSMax) which comprised of a cloth making module and a cloth simulation module. Size8 split up the modules, and licensed the cloth simulator to Poser (Poser 5 -- if memory serves, I believe under Curious Labs at the time).

It is now fully integrated into 3DSMax (possibly sold outright), and was renamed to 'ClothFX'. For a few years, one could still purchase it individually from Turbosquid under Size8, but that disappeared years ago (hence, the belief Size8 software is no more).

I am not privy to the licensing deal Poser had with Size8, nor the longevity of it, but it seems to be for a permanent lifetime usage/inclusion.

My hope, and what I have been waiting for for years, is for Poser to license the other half of the system, the cloth maker module, which would give us the full Marvelous Designer implementation just as we have with 3DSMax (if they upgrade to the current simulation module as well, which has the interactive drape functionality). I highly doubt it, and don't believe it might be possible if AutoDesk truly owns the full modules. If they were licensing as well, how did they get interactive simulation, and Poser did not get the update? I believe AD coded it themselves inhouse...

My feelings for this information are, at once, "omg that's awesome it would be so great" and "that's way overkill".

Poser (and DS) work in a content-based style - they're, in the end, made for people who want to make 3d renders but can't/don't wanna be bothered with sculpting texturing rigging things themselves. The bulk of Poser users are content buyers - and that's what works for us vendors, that's what makes us have revenue from it. We need people who want to buy assets they can load and combine and make a beautiful final image with.

For these people, the program can't be too expensive, ever. And the kind of tech that allows you to stitch up a 3d garment makes a program expensive (I know, MD isn't too pricey but this is the only thing it can do). Which makes me think, we'd need a user version of Poser (like Poser 11 instead of Poser Pro 11?) that can simulate, but not create, dynamic clothes - and a Pro version which in turn would end up getting much more expensive?

But I'm just conjecturing and dreaming up things ahead.

Glitterati3D posted at 9:23AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354087

EClark1894 posted at 7:08AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354078

Glitterati3D posted at 6:33AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354070

Ladonna posted at 6:13AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354061

Love this news. Exciting.

That;s how I feel, too, La Donna. Nice to see a plain simple statement of joy among all the negativity. Thanks for making me feel the excitement again with your simple words.

I don't view it as negativity. Merely people expressing their concerns, hopes and desires to make Poser better. I may be wrong, but I don't think I've read one hope by anyone that Poser fails and is discontinued.

So, you don't think all these DAZ vendors who want to see Poser made into DS2.0 so THEY can sell more Genesis items while cutting the throat of La Femme and Dawn and PE is negative? Somehow, I do.

What the hell do we NEED Poser for if it's just going to be DS2.0?

That's exactly my thoughts. Please, we don't need another DS. Leave Genesis for DS, they're doing a great job with it.

Nails60 posted at 8:24AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354092

There seems to be this argument here that having just acquired Poser the first thing Rendo should do is change it so users can get all the content they want from Rendo's main competition. I see no sense whatever in making Poser compatible with DAZ figures. We don't know what sort of development team Poser will have, but it's unlikely to be huge. If they are constantly busy updating Poser to be compatible with DS when will they have the time to do all the other improvements users want? And who is going to buy software that mimics a free program six months to a year at least later and costs 200usd? Yes Rendo might initially sell a few extra copies of Poser if they did this, but how much would they lose in content sales as users stop buying new native content, which Rendo is now the major vendor, and switch to DS content in which Rendo has a very serious competitor? I believe that for Poser to flourish Rendo must strive to create a thriving unique eco-system or it. Many people have talked about the importance of getting the right development team on board. I believe a an equal if not greater priority should be to hire a content development team and to encourage other vendors either through commissions or preferential sale terms to start creating more content for poser. The way poser is now being sold, only p11 being sold at good discount is I believe a correct step. Vendors should not have to worry about backwards compatibility for their products. (This is different for Poser itself for which it is essential that backwards compatibility be retained, how many users would upgrade to a version of poser that no longer supported V4/M4 for example?) I hope this acquisition does move Poser forward, with a balanced emphasis on new features and better content.

I do agree wholeheartedly. All those calls that poser has now as fast as may be compatible with DAZ content -what for? As far as I remember it was DAZ decision to split the market, wasn't it? And I have no desire at all to use all the Genesis clones. I have tons of content for V4, and reasonable much content for M4, Dawn, V3 and La Femme, and Content for Dusk and Evolution. Plus tons of dynamic clothing I can put on any figure I want. But an improved or easier hair room or cloth room, that would be the thing. Or faster superfly, which I do love, by the way. Or some improvements to the fitting room (that I don't use often enough)Poser should strife to make improvements for itself, not to become a DAZ clone. This way it can only loose.

caisson posted at 9:29AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354106

Hang on.

Poser has the Add-Ons system which already allows for third-party plug-ins - for example, look at the Reality bridge to Luxrender, and the Octane plug-in to Octane Render. (BTW, Octane has support for Instancing so if you're using the plug-in you can do Instancing from Poser ...) Therefore someone could make a bridge to Iray (though I personally wouldn't see much point, but hey).

If you want cross-app compatibility with materials look at PBR Metal/Rough or PBR Spec/Gloss workflows, which Poser supports via Cycles, does a sort-of reasonable approximation via Firefly, and are also IIRC supported by Octane and Iray - along with many other apps these days.

Poser also supports FBX - while I haven't used it much, it does provide the possibility to transfer simple rigs between different apps and is used for games. Not sure when that was last updated though as FBX is proprietary and there are several different versions.

Point being, while there is plenty of stuff that could be changed/added (and that will never change no matter what happens), there are already things in Poser that seem to me to be under-used, or even ignored ...

LOL, caisson, I find that you can correct the record with FACTS every single day and yet, the same person will be back 24 hours later repeating the same error filled rants. Facts just seem to get in the way and then dismissed outright.

Now, for things I DO wish to see in the next Poser:

-Micromesh displacement for Superfly (please. PLEASE. HUGE please with a cherry on top. I love Superfly and Cycles so much, but the inability to use displacement decently is limiting so much what I can do. It exists in the original Cycles already - Blender has this for a while)

-Enhancing/revamping cloth dynamics. Make it faster to simulate, make it easier to simulate (I don't see the casual users creating a new simulation - setting what to simulate - setting what to simulate against - setting up an animation - etc; Make a quick simulation mode, "this object" against "these figures and objects", have Poser simulate those 30 frames and start from zero pose without needing to have the user set that up - done. Make the current sim system available for those who want to customize the animation etc.). Give us a drop-down menu with some premade settings for different types of fabric, let us save new ones as we prefer.

If we have these two things for the next Poser, I'll already be super happy.

Rendo can't afford to make the same mistake that SM made and that is Content Is King. So unless they're willing to hire content makers that are every bit as capable as the Daz figure creators seem to be then they better come up with another solution. A large part of the reason Poser was doing so poorly is because the content for it was terrible. I'm not one that really likes plugins myself, but Daz figure compatibility in a plugin would be ok with me IF it's not the horrible thing that is DSON for Poser (which was always slow and buggy when I had it installed in Poser). Why not make a great plugin that allows Daz content and then people can choose to get it if that's what they want? I don't think anyone is asking for Poser to be DS 2.0. I think people are asking for the ability to use Daz figures in their program of choice - Poser. I don't see the problem. I think Poser would benefit having other things too - exporters to Unreal, Unity, other render engines. It has the potential to be really great in the right hands. Why not allow it to be all that it can be?

Maybe, instead of listening to people that are ok with Poser's status quo, they should be asking FORMER Poser users why they switched to DS? ;)

Laurie

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:34AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354114

Now, for things I DO wish to see in the next Poser:

-Micromesh displacement for Superfly (please. PLEASE. HUGE please with a cherry on top. I love Superfly and Cycles so much, but the inability to use displacement decently is limiting so much what I can do. It exists in the original Cycles already - Blender has this for a while)

-Enhancing/revamping cloth dynamics. Make it faster to simulate, make it easier to simulate (I don't see the casual users creating a new simulation - setting what to simulate - setting what to simulate against - setting up an animation - etc; Make a quick simulation mode, "this object" against "these figures and objects", have Poser simulate those 30 frames and start from zero pose without needing to have the user set that up - done. Make the current sim system available for those who want to customize the animation etc.). Give us a drop-down menu with some premade settings for different types of fabric, let us save new ones as we prefer.

If we have these two things for the next Poser, I'll already be super happy.

I don't think we will see you wish list for the cloth room in the "next" version. As I understand it, the cloth room was licensed from the originator and they have long left the business. So, changes to the cloth room are going to be a massive undertaking - as in strip it all out and replace because it can't be changed. Now, once again, FACTS tend to get jumbled and misinterpreted and what I "know" about the cloth room could be made up fantasy, too.

After all those years, I still can not get this "Poser vs DS" thing. While I am mainly use Poser, I am using also DS . And I agree here with the user who say, Poser should stay Poser and not try to fit in DS. What is the benefit of it anyway? If i want to use Genesis I use DS or import the finished Posed and clothed OBJ file to Poser, re-texture it and render it.Yes a bit work ,but also fun. I am happy that Renderosity take over Poser and wish the new team good luck.

LaurieA posted at 9:41AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354115

Rendo can't afford to make the same mistake that SM made and that is Content Is King. So unless they're willing to hire content makers that are every bit as capable as the Daz figure creators seem to be then they better come up with another solution. A large part of the reason Poser was doing so poorly is because the content for it was terrible. I'm not one that really likes plugins myself, but Daz figure compatibility in a plugin would be ok with me IF it's not the horrible thing that is DSON for Poser (which was always slow and buggy when I had it installed in Poser). Why not make a great plugin that allows Daz content and then people can choose to get it if that's what they want? I don't think anyone is asking for Poser to be DS 2.0. I think people are asking for the ability to use Daz figures in their program of choice - Poser. I don't see the problem. I think Poser would benefit having other things too - exporters to Unreal, Unity, other render engines. It has the potential to be really great in the right hands. Why not allow it to be all that it can be?

Maybe, instead of listening to people that are ok with Poser's status quo, they should be asking FORMER Poser users why they switched to DS? ;)

Laurie

The thing is, the way a lot of people here are speaking, they're talking as if the priority of Poser should be get it compatible with Genesis specifically. Which would make Poser development a slave to Daz3d, AND make it no point in paying the price for Poser when a person could just get DS for free doing the same things.

Enabling Poser to have addons so that someone could come up with a Genesis loader - sure, that would be cool. But the people working on Poser should be focused on making Poser better, independently of what Daz3d is doing.

LaurieA posted at 9:40AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354115

Rendo can't afford to make the same mistake that SM made and that is Content Is King. So unless they're willing to hire content makers that are every bit as capable as the Daz figure creators seem to be then they better come up with another solution. A large part of the reason Poser was doing so poorly is because the content for it was terrible. I'm not one that really likes plugins myself, but Daz figure compatibility in a plugin would be ok with me IF it's not the horrible thing that is DSON for Poser (which was always slow and buggy when I had it installed in Poser). Why not make a great plugin that allows Daz content and then people can choose to get it if that's what they want? I don't think anyone is asking for Poser to be DS 2.0. I think people are asking for the ability to use Daz figures in their program of choice - Poser. I don't see the problem. I think Poser would benefit having other things too - exporters to Unreal, Unity, other render engines. It has the potential to be really great in the right hands. Why not allow it to be all that it can be?

Maybe, instead of listening to people that are ok with Poser's status quo, they should be asking FORMER Poser users why they switched to DS? ;)

Laurie

People who want to use Genesis already have a choice - use those figures in the software they were designed for. The choice you made. I assume you enjoy that option.

But, asking a competing producer to chase the DAZ tail every time they decide to invent the next "game changing" file format or rigging gimmick just so you can have the choice is astronomically silly.

That's like asking Microsoft to adopt Adobe Reader and still call it MS Word.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:45AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354118

LaurieA posted at 9:41AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354115

Rendo can't afford to make the same mistake that SM made and that is Content Is King. So unless they're willing to hire content makers that are every bit as capable as the Daz figure creators seem to be then they better come up with another solution. A large part of the reason Poser was doing so poorly is because the content for it was terrible. I'm not one that really likes plugins myself, but Daz figure compatibility in a plugin would be ok with me IF it's not the horrible thing that is DSON for Poser (which was always slow and buggy when I had it installed in Poser). Why not make a great plugin that allows Daz content and then people can choose to get it if that's what they want? I don't think anyone is asking for Poser to be DS 2.0. I think people are asking for the ability to use Daz figures in their program of choice - Poser. I don't see the problem. I think Poser would benefit having other things too - exporters to Unreal, Unity, other render engines. It has the potential to be really great in the right hands. Why not allow it to be all that it can be?

Maybe, instead of listening to people that are ok with Poser's status quo, they should be asking FORMER Poser users why they switched to DS? ;)

Laurie

The thing is, the way a lot of people here are speaking, they're talking as if the priority of Poser should be get it compatible with Genesis specifically. Which would make Poser development a slave to Daz3d, AND make it no point in paying the price for Poser when a person could just get DS for free doing the same things.

Enabling Poser to have addons so that someone could come up with a Genesis loader - sure, that would be cool. But the people working on Poser should be focused on making Poser better, independently of what Daz3d is doing.

Only because that has been the most-asked-for-thing by Poser users...and for years. It's going to come up, so at some point it's going to need to be addressed. I don't think anyone wants to be negative about it (I'm certainly not), and I'll probably continue to use DS for Daz figures to be completely frank, but there are people who really want to use those figures but don't want to use DS. They can use them in CC, why not Poser? It's not a horrible request. LOL

Laurie

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:46AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354118

LaurieA posted at 9:41AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354115

Rendo can't afford to make the same mistake that SM made and that is Content Is King. So unless they're willing to hire content makers that are every bit as capable as the Daz figure creators seem to be then they better come up with another solution. A large part of the reason Poser was doing so poorly is because the content for it was terrible. I'm not one that really likes plugins myself, but Daz figure compatibility in a plugin would be ok with me IF it's not the horrible thing that is DSON for Poser (which was always slow and buggy when I had it installed in Poser). Why not make a great plugin that allows Daz content and then people can choose to get it if that's what they want? I don't think anyone is asking for Poser to be DS 2.0. I think people are asking for the ability to use Daz figures in their program of choice - Poser. I don't see the problem. I think Poser would benefit having other things too - exporters to Unreal, Unity, other render engines. It has the potential to be really great in the right hands. Why not allow it to be all that it can be?

Maybe, instead of listening to people that are ok with Poser's status quo, they should be asking FORMER Poser users why they switched to DS? ;)

Laurie

The thing is, the way a lot of people here are speaking, they're talking as if the priority of Poser should be get it compatible with Genesis specifically. Which would make Poser development a slave to Daz3d, AND make it no point in paying the price for Poser when a person could just get DS for free doing the same things.

Enabling Poser to have addons so that someone could come up with a Genesis loader - sure, that would be cool. But the people working on Poser should be focused on making Poser better, independently of what Daz3d is doing.

Not to mention that the coders have had that option since day one - to make an addon and even DAZ said "screw this" with DSON.

But, Renderosity should take on that task, why? And, then, when DAZ gets it's next wild hair and changes all the file formatting? And the modeling structure? And the morphing structure? Sure, Poser can just chase DAZ whims AND still produce Poser, right? All the time in the world to chase this mythical pot at the end of the rainbow.