Hi All! Darkseal here,

I just wanted to start a thread / open discussion about a figure I am currently creating for Poser (no weights yet, so will probably work in daz). I really just want to see if there is any interest in my anime-manga style figure here on Renderosity. It's been a long time since I posted products in the store and wanted to see if this might be the right place or not, depending on how this thread goes. Many of my figures in the past get little love and I get no feedback. I realize now it's because I don't talk about it before release and just throw it out there. Anyway, long story short.... I want to see if anyonwe is even interested in this style of girl/figures. In the next few posts I'll show some images that I've done with her over the last month or 2 as she was being created.

Please keep in mind a few things... The images shown will have post work in photoshop on them Only 1 skin has been created, anything else is manipulated in poser or photoshop Not all clothing or items shown has been made for the figure (ie. static prop to fit pose for concepting) etc..etc..

The main thing is just tell me what you think. Yay/Nay, care/don't care, etc... Ideas for clothing or add-ons are ALWAYS WELCOME!

I'll start with the most recent render (in my opinion the best) and will keep the obligatory ones out (patreons know what I mean, H is the working title for a reason).

This is my example of making the bikini top and skirt into a dynamic piece inspired by the first image. More will come as time passes, as everything is still a work in progress. Nothing but the main figure has a texture, so all materials on clothing are basic and simple, no bumps, no normals, nothing.

I can't show you any more from this series of animations.... but I wanted to show a close up, though if this is an issue just let me know >_<

This is the original figure that inspired me to make a more simplistic version, take the horns and tail off and add them as add-on props or conforming appendages. She was made to be rendered in the cartoon render style, which is why her skin has some black marks on them. I might re-do this as a skin type style for H girl as well

It looks real nice. For sure I would be interested.

I mainly use male figures for anime-style, but may consider female figures depending on style

Hello,

I see many possibilities for such a figure in anime, but also in the department of Race Queen, Grid Girls, animations and everywhere where fantasy primes over realism.

The "trick" with such a figure is to keep it technically as simple as possible (ultimate realism is not important) so that creators and end users can use the figure to its fullest potential without having to fight the technology behind it.

Low to medium polycount, decent weight-and bulge mapping, and you already have my idea about JCM's.

JCM's are fine, but they have to "do" something in 3D, not to correct less then perfect rigging.

I like it. Not something I'd use often but always useful to have available.

You already know my answer, I'm definitely liking her.

First, I used to post a comic over at DeviantArts, I used to average about 200 views per page and 4 comments. Anyone that's posted over ShareCg will notice thousands of downloads and perhaps a handful of thank you's. First off, thank you. You were helping people in the Poser community with your freebies long before any name changes. You helped me, personally. So again, thank you.

Secondly, this figure would be instant buy for me. I love cartoony figures. It feels like a mix between Kami Tora and you! The expressions are already out of this world. So again, yes.

There has to be a male counterpoint though. La Femme, Dawn, even Vicky needs balance. I'd get that one too.

My two cents, Carl.

tonyvilters posted at 2:26PM Sun, 30 June 2019 - #4355482

Hello, Low to medium polycount, decent weight-and bulge mapping, and you already have my idea about JCM's.

JCM's are fine, but they have to "do" something in 3D, not to correct less then perfect rigging.

She is not low in count :( She is also not weight mapped at this time since I am still playing with the idea of being Daz friendly, as are 98% of all my products. I only weight map if something cannot be achieved without it. Same with JCMs, but I find JCM's are amazing and I have made them do seemingly unnecessary things in the past like buldgin the bicept, have not gone that far on her yet though :P

Bulging the biceps is in the bulge map, no need for a JCM => I have a video about that on youtube

quietrob posted at 2:30PM Sun, 30 June 2019 - #4355517

So again, thank you.

There has to be a male counterpoint though. ...

Thank you! I do have the base male zbrush basic shapes created from the female file, he has not been "worked on" but a basic form is there. I will work on him only after the female is finished enough to my liking. this is where the female started So here is the male counterpart, not adjusted much, never worked on after the first hour, so not a real rep of anything in particular...

tonyvilters posted at 2:37PM Sun, 30 June 2019 - #4355547

Bulging the biceps is in the bulge map, no need for a JCM => I have a video about that on youtube

Again, I do not weight map unless I cannot achieve something while keeping it Daz friendly, as 98% of all my figures are Daz friendly. If a figure/item/product says "Poser 6 and above" it means you can use it in Daz too.

Thank you for the clarification.

I do not exactly know the exact polycount of the DAZ latest generation figures, but most "popular" figures run in the 17.000 to 25.000 poly for realism.

Anime figures, certainly those that go in animations usually hover around the 5.000 to 10.000 poly range.

And all latest figures use SubD (in both apps) to get their softness.

I think the latest hi poly figures where all V4 based including PE (around 68.000 range somewhere) but that is more then 10 ago. SubD has taken over since then.

Because , tja, then come the clothes, the rest of the scene, usually there is more then just one figure, it all adds up rather fast.

Forgive the question but are all vertex groups properly welded?

I think you might be mistaken in the intent of reducing the poly count for the daz figures. They did not reduce the count for "realism". I was told they are more focused on versatility of the figures for the gaming industry. This was the reason they chopped the polycount so low. That being said, nope, the figure's poly count is high, like 136k. Since no one has ever given me feedback on my figures I have no idea the level of the end user, and do not know if they even SubD. As for the vertex welding, nope, this is not a unimesh figure, as it is being made in poser, which would chop it back up when saving to the library no matter what in my experience of making figures. There are programs that can weld the verts afterward, but I believe this would also break the existing morphs. Work flow in poser, to be non destructive, requires this. There is an option IN poser to unimesh the figure, it's a simple check box under Figure > skinning method, which does the welding for you should you choose to use it. I know I do when making animations rendering in the Octane Plugin, else the figure shows breaks.

Today's Clothing Wip. Playing with some more clothing options. I'm taking a different approach with this figure. I'm playing with it, seeing what more I want to add, and making clothing and morphs as the needs arise. Same with Poses and Materials.

I take it this wont be a Genesis 8 figure? (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Since the RSSY hair & clothing converter I'm kinda steering clear of other figures.

She looks damn fine but whats the point if the bulk of hair & clothes dont fit?

mouser posted at 1:19AM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355600

I take it this wont be a Genesis 8 figure? (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Since the RSSY hair & clothing converter I'm kinda steering clear of other figures.

She looks damn fine but whats the point if the bulk of hair & clothes dont fit?

No, it's not a Genesis 2345678 figure, I make figures. I don't know what a RSSY converter is. Clothing can always be converted if you take time to do it. The point is there are other things in this world than daz figures. But thank you for the point of view. It's what I'm looking for. Is it worth making new characters for people to play with? Or is Genesis the only thing that matters in the marketplace anymore? I'm not being sassy, I really want to know.

There will always be room for good new figures.

Coming back on polycount I remember a discussion from a while ago.

If you have work for a 100 people, you hire a 100 people.

If you have work for 100 people but hire a 1.000 people, 900 of them are on your pay-rol filling gaps but doing nothing.

Same thing for vertices. If you have actual 3D work for them? You need them. If you don't , you don't need them, they are just costing and make your work harder.

For a smooth figure like you are showing, where not a lot of 3D work is done by the mesh, it would be best to re-topo to around 10.000 before spending too much time on rigging and morphs. You are only increasing your own workload by staying with such a high poly-count.

We see this in Blender too when people start using dynamic topo. Poly count gets out of hand FAST. => Good for "stand alone" sculpts, but no so good for 3D meshes in apps like DS or Poser.

tonyvilters posted at 5:49AM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355613

There will always be room for good new figures.

Coming back on polycount I remember a discussion from a while ago.

If you have work for a 100 people, you hire a 100 people.

If you have work for 100 people but hire a 1.000 people, 900 of them are on your pay-rol filling gaps but doing nothing.

Same thing for vertices. If you have actual 3D work for them? You need them. If you don't , you don't need them, they are just costing and make your work harder.

For a smooth figure like you are showing, where not a lot of 3D work is done by the mesh, it would be best to re-topo to around 10.000 before spending too much time on rigging and morphs. You are only increasing your own workload by staying with such a high poly-count.

But optimizing her for one shape in one pose only degrades the amount and detail of morphs that can be made for her. The Girl was great and had optimized poly count for her shape, EVERYONE loved her but when it came time to make add on morphs there was VERY little mesh to work with (with exception to her face) so consequently she ended up with FAR less add on packages by merchants because of that.

And as for Genesis 8, that's a GUARANTEE I won't even look at your product's page. Because I've learned "Genesis 8" means it ONLY works with Genesis 8 and it's likely in the mystical "The Simpsons beer" format. :P It's like the Shur Fine store label of 3D formats.

Some quick clarification for lurkers like me who follow this thread.

RSSY Converter is a series of converters that allow Genesis 8 to use Genesis 2 and 3 Hair and clothing. There are at least 4 Converters at a price of 75 Dollars for all of them (Regular price)

Other figures besides DAZ (Gen) Figures. Doctor Pitterbill, Gramps, Sadie, Star, Natu by Chocolate, Gramps 2, Loik and various monsters by the legendary Sixius1, Darkseal and Antfarm and more, all have a spot in my runtime. I know time precious when creating but I think offering the new figures is a good thing. You never know what sells. There are hundreds of hairs on the market, many good and underrated but I remember when every promo featured End of Summer Hair.

Does everyone turn on Smooth Polygons? Do we have to manually tell Poser to Subdivide the Mesh? I've looked for options but can find none that aren't greyed out.

Finally, I love the new morphs,clothing, shoes and props made for Genesis 2, 3, 8 and DS as well as the new hair styles. Such incredible talent, I'm in awe.

I won't touch a single one.

Thanks for letting me in the thread, guys.

GhengisFarb posted at 2:20PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355634

But optimizing her for one shape in one pose only degrades the amount and detail of morphs that can be made for her. ...

And as for Genesis 8, that's a GUARANTEE I won't even look at your product's page. ...

Yes, Morphs are the holy grail of what one can do with a figure. I'm confused about the Gen 8 comment though. Since this is not a Gen 8, does that mean you DO like? Or DON'T like? because it's NOT Gen 8?

quietrob posted at 2:24PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355683

RSSY Converter is...

Does everyone turn on Smooth Polygons? Do we have to manually tell Poser to Subdivide the Mesh? I've looked for options but can find none that aren't greyed out.

Finally, I love the new morphs,clothing, shoes and props made for Genesis 2, 3, 8 and DS as well as the new hair styles. Such incredible talent, I'm in awe.

I won't touch a single one.

Thank you for the info on what the converter is, it's all for Gen figures, that's why I don't have a clue. I have Smooth Polys in render settings on Always (and on mesh). As for SubD, yes, you must tell poser to do it, and to what degree (1,2,3), You will find it on the body of your figure in the 2nd tab where you find the smooth poly options as well. You will see a slider for preview and for render. If i remember correctly you must slide the preview one first... i could be wrong. Finally, I love the last comment, I won't touch a single one either. Thanks for joining the convo!

tonyvilters posted at 2:31PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355613

There will always be room for good new figures.

Coming back on polycount...For a smooth figure like you are showing...

It's like GhengisFarb said. Morphs. I think you might be getting too deep into the best practices of the games industry. Streamlining the figure to run the best and take up as little resources as possible is great. But in games when they want to change the figure into something else they have the luxury to swap models. Poser and Daz are not the same as Games and Movies. As for making more work for myself, yeah, it's more work, but I'll have fun while doing it. Also, SubD-ing your figure takes up more resources on your PC than I think you know. And then people end up making morphs for the SubD figure..... more steps to end up in the same spot. 25k figure Subdivided once = 100k figure. Thank you for the advice but I like this work flow better because I don't have to explain to the end user that they must subdivide the mesh to use morph package xyz.

Hello, this figure has her hair and boots included in the base mesh of . . . HolD, LOL, 6.580 vertices, previewed at SubD level1, and she has a ton of morphs on hair, body and face, from neutral, to Asian, over Happy and Sad, Angry and Contempt enfin, I follow the facial recognition system as Invented By Paul Ekman ( a face has only 7 expressions ) and with the 7 basics, one can form all others. Facial Action Coding System

And, inside Poser one has the option to edit low res morphs to add higher detail morphs directly on the SubD mesh with bake down to lower SubD levels if required.

The purple line is the link to Wikipedia for the Facial Action Coding System !

DarksealStudios posted at 1:35PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355685

GhengisFarb posted at 2:20PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355634

But optimizing her for one shape in one pose only degrades the amount and detail of morphs that can be made for her. ...

And as for Genesis 8, that's a GUARANTEE I won't even look at your product's page. ...

Yes, Morphs are the holy grail of what one can do with a figure. I'm confused about the Gen 8 comment though. Since this is not a Gen 8, does that mean you DO like? Or DON'T like? because it's NOT Gen 8?

I AM DEFINITELY interested. I have NO interest in anything for Genesis 8.

For clarification any product that says "Genesis 8" or "for Genesis 8" is a guarantee I won't look at it or ever buy it.

GhengisFarb posted at 4:13PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355703

I AM DEFINITELY interested. I have NO interest in anything for Genesis 8.

For clarification any product that says "Genesis 8" or "for Genesis 8" is a guarantee I won't look at it or ever buy it.

Ah, Thank you GhengisFarb

and Tonyvilters, .............she looks amazing........ but let's not derail the thread debating over polycounts. Thank you for the input, I will keep it in mind.

She came out good, (the first render you posted with the flame thingies on her hands.) Nice job.

quietrob posted at 3:17PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355683

Some quick clarification for lurkers like me who follow this thread.

RSSY Converter is a series of converters that allow Genesis 8 to use Genesis 2 and 3 Hair and clothing. There are at least 4 Converters at a price of 75 Dollars for all of them (Regular price)

Other figures besides DAZ (Gen) Figures. Doctor Pitterbill, Gramps, Sadie, Star, Natu by Chocolate, Gramps 2, Loik and various monsters by the legendary Sixius1, Darkseal and Antfarm and more, all have a spot in my runtime. I know time precious when creating but I think offering the new figures is a good thing. You never know what sells. There are hundreds of hairs on the market, many good and underrated but I remember when every promo featured End of Summer Hair.

Does everyone turn on Smooth Polygons? Do we have to manually tell Poser to Subdivide the Mesh? I've looked for options but can find none that aren't greyed out.

Finally, I love the new morphs,clothing, shoes and props made for Genesis 2, 3, 8 and DS as well as the new hair styles. Such incredible talent, I'm in awe.

I won't touch a single one.

Thanks for letting me in the thread, guys.

If you want to use the SubD, and you are in Poser Pro 11, you have to click on Figure/Skinning Method/ Poser Unimesh. You will see the Properties tab come up and the option to use subdivision will not be greyed out. You also have the option to SubD the various body parts separate of the body actor.

I am like you. V4/A4/M4 was the last DAZ product I will bother with. All of the Genesis figures look too much alike to me. The art created with them is gorgeous, but it all looks the same. Blah.

CHK2033 - Thank you!

rokket - Yeh, to me everything done with v5-8,9,10 whatever could have just been done with V4. They all look the same, so much so they sell things that convert the new thing you just bought to old versions.. I don't get it. Well, I do, I just don't agree with the business model for me.

Side note, Here are some quick faces I whipped up with the morphs that already exist. I'll probably add more.

I like her. The last image you posted with the new clothes looks good. I think she is cute, too. But Tony has a point. When you model, you have to think of your end user. A lot of us are still plunking around on Poser 7, still using V4, and a laptop that probably still has Windows XP on it. So you have to keep the poly count down. You can crank it up fairly high. But I wouldn't go much past 20K if you can help it. Personally, I could use a 120K poly model without issues. I have a gamer laptop with a 2.80GB processor. But not all of us have that. I know retopology is a pain in the butt, but if you are going to release her, and you want her to succeed, she needs to be very user friendly. Just my 2 cents.

DarksealStudios posted at 3:33PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355732

CHK2033 - Thank you!

rokket - Yeh, to me everything done with v5-8,9,10 whatever could have just been done with V4. They all look the same, so much so they sell things that convert the new thing you just bought to old versions.. I don't get it. Well, I do, I just don't agree with the business model for me.

Side note, Here are some quick faces I whipped up with the morphs that already exist. I'll probably add more. Wow, that looks really good. I am interested in her...

Thanks rokket! I'll update with more in a bit.

I have a list of morphs included but it's not up to date cause I think I had added more since this list is like from a month ago...

Oops, you can see what I had named her for the work in progress name.... She is anatomically correct.

I forgot to also say she has a Chibi slider too. I've made the head and hands propagating scaling.

Now the plot thickens!!! Haha! That's awesome!

DarksealStudios posted at 4:03PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355740

I forgot to also say she has a Chibi slider too. I've made the head and hands propagating scaling.

Red Viper did that for A4 several years ago. He also made a few outfits for his Chibi and made his HMHM and Nene hair conform and scale when added to her.

And of course changing the diffuse color can give a different skin tone, eye color, etc.... Here is another hair style.

rokket - Yeah, I love to chibi out many of my figures!

kay, I'ma go try to add the new clothing I made last night to poser.

rokket posted at 4:13PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355743

DarksealStudios posted at 4:03PM Mon, 01 July 2019 - #4355740

I forgot to also say she has a Chibi slider too. I've made the head and hands propagating scaling.

Red Viper did that for A4 several years ago. He also made a few outfits for his Chibi and made his HMHM and Nene hair conform and scale when added to her.

Quietly starts his fund to get H-Girl as soon as possible.

Let me know if you want a beta tester.... ?

Looks good!

Watching this with interest. LOVE the character.

Did want to mention that because her base poly count is on the high side, you probably won't see much difference when subdividing the figure. Looks fine as it is.

LOVE what I see of the Chibi version!

Thanks all! I just added the dynamic Minidress from yesterdays sculpt. The colors are just to show material zones. Gonna go add more. Deecey - Yeah, This figure won't need Sub-D, that's for sure.

Simple Dynaimc Panties. I have a pair of conforming as well, different style though...

Some retro future glasses I threw in last night too

While I'm waiting for the dynamics to run I thought I'd post a chibi style I did. I traced over her and drew on some My Hero Camie clothing. Just posting for funzies.

OK, dystopian plastic rain jacket is in. I'm not great at dynamics, so I don't know how to pin stuff in place, etc... so the pose to show off the jacket isn't great.