ghostship2 posted at 6:56 PM Sun, 2 April 2023 - #4460560

More of my new skin shader

@anupaum thanks!

Playing with the new Post render FX

Testing.

I think I'm starting to get the hang of lighting now.

Some more playing

I think I'm starting to get the hang of lighting now.

I might have the SSS radius wrong on my skin shader. This darker skinned model had red glowing nipples so I halved the radius.

What sort of range were you using?

Nice portrait, by the way.

I was using .11, .03, .015 on the PBSDF node. With the dark skin I had to go .026, .008, .004. There doesn't seem to be a scaling parameter on it.

after checking the new numbers on a lighter skin it seems those are better there as well

anupaum posted at 3:03 PM Mon, 3 April 2023 - #4460646

I think I'm starting to get the hang of lighting now.

Nice scene.  I'd keep an eye on anything that can cause self-glowing.  It can be seen in the hair and partially in the skin.

@anupaum

What he is seeing is on the Alanis Hair. It looks like Cast Shadows is turned off for that prop or it is using a material that is glowing. Often it's using some sort of Translucency on the Poser Root and that pretty much doesn't work the way you'd think it should. Have a look at my example so you can see the difference. BTW: not trying to gang up on you just trying to help out!

Yes, by all means, don't take any offense.  There comes a realization that old shaders need to be revamped to work correctly Superfly.  I keep seeing the same mistakes in the gallery from contributors posting Superfly-rendered images that need texture overhauls because they don't look right.  Self-glowing is one example.

I was using .11, .03, .015 on the PBSDF node. With the dark skin I had to go .026, .008, .004. There doesn't seem to be a scaling parameter on it.

after checking the new numbers on a lighter skin it seems those are better there as well

ghostship2 posted at 11:06 PM Mon, 3 April 2023 - #4460686

@anupaum

What he is seeing is on the Alanis Hair. It looks like Cast Shadows is turned off for that prop or it is using a material that is glowing. Often it's using some sort of Translucency on the Poser Root and that pretty much doesn't work the way you'd think it should. Have a look at my example so you can see the difference. BTW: not trying to gang up on you just trying to help out!

hborre posted at 11:16 PM Mon, 3 April 2023 - #4460688

Yes, by all means, don't take any offense.  There comes a realization that old shaders need to be revamped to work correctly Superfly.  I keep seeing the same mistakes in the gallery from contributors posting Superfly-rendered images that need texture overhauls because they don't look right.  Self-glowing is one example.

I've experimented with the EZ Blinn Node's Reflectivity value. The first image is the normal EZ Skin shader I've been using. It's value is .5. With a rim light set at 120%, you can see the blown highlights. These remain in the right shoulder through all of the images, as I didn't mess with values for the rest of her skin.

The second image has the Reflectivity value set at .25.

The third image has the Reflectivity value set at .1

The fourth image has the Reflectivity value set at .05.

This deals with the highlights being blown out, but her skin starts looking a bit flat, the lower I go. This was not an issue using Superfly in P12.

Another issue is that older hair models have these baked-in highlights, which look ridiculous. It's exceptionally bad for Kiri-Te hair.

So, you may ask, "Why not upgrade to one of the newer Genesis figures?"

I have a LOT invested in Poser. I'm familiar with the UI and have a workflow that is well-established at this point. Also, the characters I render are custom made for me. So, unless I can figure out how to fix the old hair shaders and get rid of the burnt-in highlights, I'm more or less stuck with what I have.

Use a hair shader that modifies/ eliminates that. You maY have to purchase one like ghostship2's or a script like Ken1171's GoPhysical. Old hairs can have new life. I would not consider Genesis either.

ghostship2 posted at 9:26 PM Mon, 3 April 2023 - #4460682

I was using .11, .03, .015 on the PBSDF node. With the dark skin I had to go .026, .008, .004. There doesn't seem to be a scaling parameter on it.

after checking the new numbers on a lighter skin it seems those are better there as well

Your radius values seem to be reasonable, maybe a bit too low but dark skin usually doesn't exhibit much scatter.  Is the Subsurface value above the Subsurface Radius channel high?  If it's set too high it will cause the same glowing effect.  I usually keep that value low, 0.01 - 0.02 with slightly higher Radius values depending on the tint I want to impart.

Another issue is that older hair models have these baked-in highlights, which look ridiculous. It's exceptionally bad for Kiri-Te hair.

So, you may ask, "Why not upgrade to one of the newer Genesis figures?"

I have a LOT invested in Poser. I'm familiar with the UI and have a workflow that is well-established at this point. Also, the characters I render are custom made for me. So, unless I can figure out how to fix the old hair shaders and get rid of the burnt-in highlights, I'm more or less stuck with what I have.

This is what I'm using for skin. You can add a bit of metallic (.5) to the lips if you want more of a lipstick look to the lips.

ghostship2 posted at 10:35 AM Tue, 4 April 2023 - #4460727

This is what I'm using for skin. You can add a bit of metallic (.5) to the lips if you want more of a lipstick look to the lips.

Your shader looks nothing like mine. This is a "pure" cycles shader, right? The ones I'm using are EZ Skin mods of the original shaders that came with my figures.

@anupaum I never use the shaders included with any of the products I buy. They never look good. Most of the stuff for sale these days is either 10 years old, or the vendor is forced to make it backwards compatible with old Posers versions or worse, the vendor makes a Poser version as an afterthought and doesn't really understand anything about Superfly shaders.

@anupaum I never use the shaders included with any of the products I buy. They never look good. Most of the stuff for sale these days is either 10 years old, or the vendor is forced to make it backwards compatible with old Posers versions or worse, the vendor makes a Poser version as an afterthought and doesn't really understand anything about Superfly shaders.

I think it has come time to revamp EZSkin to include the major improvements that have been released with the current versions of Poser.  One of the complaints about it was how the specularity is set too high when rendered.  Even selecting the SSS Skin type is doing nothing at all, it is not activated when applied to the character figure.  I have done a deep dive into this application and although it does deliver an acceptable result, it needs more significant tweaking to get it to the point where it is right most of the time.  But everything is dependent on your scene presentation and lighting situation which means that shader textures need more correction to make it look right.  I agree with Ghostship2, using the default shaders unless done right, will frustrate users trying to find that happy medium between mediocre art and exceptional, take notice art.

I think it has come time to revamp EZSkin to include the major improvements that have been released with the current versions of Poser.  One of the complaints about it was how the specularity is set too high when rendered.  Even selecting the SSS Skin type is doing nothing at all, it is not activated when applied to the character figure.  I have done a deep dive into this application and although it does deliver an acceptable result, it needs more significant tweaking to get it to the point where it is right most of the time.  But everything is dependent on your scene presentation and lighting situation which means that shader textures need more correction to make it look right.  I agree with Ghostship2, using the default shaders unless done right, will frustrate users trying to find that happy medium between mediocre art and exceptional, take notice art.

Construct with included material, one of ghostship's lights from the marketplace set (Construct Bounce + Studio), V4 subdivision 1, Ades Hair, Essence texture; Poser 13 render, SuperFly: Rendering time: 489.20 seconds.

Construct with included material, one of ghostship's lights from the marketplace set (Construct Bounce + Studio), V4 subdivision 1, Ades Hair, Essence texture; Poser 13 render, SuperFly: Rendering time: 489.20 seconds.

@Rhia474 very nice!

So my system and Poser 13 have decided to play nicely together today allowing me to have some fun.

This time around there are no Poser lights at all.  Both the hanger and the space craft have been in my runtimes for over 7 years and I may well have spent sometime saving up for them so that gives an idea of age.  I used Ken-1171_designs Go Physical script to change everything to physical with a single click and, in the case of the fuselage of the space craft, to 'make metal' with the same script.  Using the physical surface I then set emissions on any lights in the hanger and displays in the space craft.

Oh and yes I did, notice slightly too late the rear of the craft is sinking, which I need to correct but I thought I would go with this as a proof of concept while I was still ahead

That's lovely!

That looks nice and crisp, love how the surfaces turned out! Definite proof of concept, glad you could get Poser to behave!

Older scene, cranked up the bounces.

@bobbesch good work!

Older scene, cranked up the bounces.

Wow ❤

So my system and Poser 13 have decided to play nicely together today allowing me to have some fun.

This time around there are no Poser lights at all.  Both the hanger and the space craft have been in my runtimes for over 7 years and I may well have spent sometime saving up for them so that gives an idea of age.  I used Ken-1171_designs Go Physical script to change everything to physical with a single click and, in the case of the fuselage of the space craft, to 'make metal' with the same script.  Using the physical surface I then set emissions on any lights in the hanger and displays in the space craft.

Oh and yes I did, notice slightly too late the rear of the craft is sinking, which I need to correct but I thought I would go with this as a proof of concept while I was still ahead

Fantastic result ❤

P13 - minor FX, included and legacy content, default render settings ... A full day's project.  Hope you like. 

P13 - minor FX, included and legacy content, default render settings ... A full day's project.  Hope you like. 

Awesome ❤

Just to see if there was anything unexpected I tried a portrait scene I set up in Poser 12 a few weeks ago and rendered it in Poser 13.   I didn't expect any issues and there were none.

The road to crafting a top notch skin shader is hard. For a long time, I tried with Poser 12 not to make the characters look like mannequins, with shiny skin like a sweaty sumo. On male and older female characters, it's easier to trick with bump and normal maps. The skin may be blotchy and more wrinkled. With young people (and those young at heart?) it is difficult to get a grip on this waxy, slightly translucent surface.

ghostship2 posted at 6:56 PM Sun, 2 April 2023 - #4460560

More of my new skin shader

This is beautiful!  :)

@Trantuete Thanks! If you like you could try the shader I'm using. It's in the Cycles skin thread.

Wow...thanks a lot!!

My first Poser 13 render. I had wanted to add some fog, but it wasn't working. I'm going to have to experiment and see if I messed it up or if Poser 13 is having an issue.

Edit to add it was user error.

@RedPhantom Looks good! Did you use a giant cube with a scatter volume node on it?

I think the camera has to be outside of the cube for you to see the effect

I downloaded Poser 13 this morning and had a bit of a play with this scene from yesterday while checking out the new renderer. So far, I'm really happy with it. So faaaast!!!

Guys and girls.

These renders are so fantastic!!!

Yes some of these renders are looking promising, not saying perfect as I would not hang it up in one of my room's. Giving to many compliments might prevent getting better :) I think there still is allot of work ahead for most of these works. From my profession I learned that a artwork is then good if you or someone would hang it up in a living room. It is a helpful technique to realize where it could be done better.  Allot of these works, I mean not just poser look allot like screen shots out of older games, so far results are not really convincing. Make a comparison, if a Sims shot look better then your render then you have allot of work ahead.

Allot of pinup's have no Life given, Portraits are staring as if they zombies ( Expression missing ) that is telling a story.  Not that I want to say Poser would not have the potential, but for giving it the potential the renders need reaching a quality to be hang up in a Room.