Hello,

I am sending this message after several months of absence.

I could no longer spend so much time on a program that brought me almost no recognition.

Today, I am aware that VWD must continue to bring something to the dynamic simulation of clothing and hair.

I have been working on the program again for several weeks and I am happy with the results obtained both in terms of its possibilities and the simulation results obtained.

There are wonderful artists who have made hyper-realistic clothes and hair that produce sublime static results.

I personally have no intention of trying to compete with them in this area.
I would like the elements created and animated by VWD to be only intended for dynamic simulation, i.e. animations.

The main problem with realistic clothing and hair is the quality of the meshes.
To obtain a realistic result in animation, the mesh must be as regular as possible and this is the goal of the work I am carrying out at the moment.

I'm starting to have clothes and hair that give realistic rendering results while also having very good behavior in simulation.

This message is intended to say what my intentions are. I will soon make a video showing several simulation results.

My question is therefore to know if people would be interested in the work that I want to undertake, that is to say trying to obtain the most realistic character animations possible.
If so, I am ready to intensively resume the development of VWD and share the methods of generating clothes and hair.
If not, I will keep my enjoyment of digital simulation to myself and will probably show videos showing results from time to time.

Thank you for reading me, I await your responses, good or bad.

Best regards.

      Gérald

I have missed you! Please share  I'd love to see what you will come up with next! 

Was this a python script, or at least use a python script as part of it? If so, keep in mind that python was updated in Poser 12 so you may need to update that

Hello Gérald!

Glad you are well and back, and energized to continue to improve VWD! Of course this is good news.

With many thoughts, for *me* it comes to this:

Do it and share it. Or call it quits and stop raising hopes with no delivery.

Everyone that has ever loved VWD would be *so* happy to see you work on VWD for your own love and enjoyment, and then to share your ideas and special talents as you go along.

And, we both now know there there is no real money in this small 3D niche. D-force, cloth-room, and Blender sims are free and good enough for most.

But I still think VWD is better.

VWD is still a *wonderful* tool, and of course we (all of us users) have many small wishes for little features that would make it even more wonderful (e.g. saving selected vertex-sets - hint hint), so *anything* you add would be welcomed with *great* appreciation.

To do this only for yourself would be fine, but perhaps sad, since it is all still so magical and amazing, and would be so appreciated by your users.

To my thinking, the Patreon model is the best for this product now, where you can share any fixes you *enjoy* adding, only when you feel like adding them, big or small, and anyone who enjoys these changes can support you and share in those changes as you go. This way VWD thrives in your mind, your own desktop 3D world, and with those of us who know and love your creation. It would be easy to post ongoing updates on Patreon, so the mechanics of doing this would be pretty easy  to do, especially if the updates were built like the version 1->2 update version. (we can discuss the practical logistics offline, but I put this out there for comments and other ideas)

You can share videos, but even better, you could also share your betas and experiments on Patreon (as updates to the paid-for base). They don't need to be perfect as long as we can revert to our earlier working versions (re-install, etc.) and I think many users would be very happy to *play* and try out your ideas and current experiments *along with you*, sharing feedback, ideas, and debugging! Maybe restructure the VWD base to use plugins for the features that lend themselves to that sort of functional isolation, like photoshop does, so people can buy the VWD base, and kind of build their own personal VWD versions for their workflow - swapping new beta plugins for the stable versions and back. And, that would probably work very well in the Patreon model.

You (and only you) have the ability to make this project a fascinating playground - and maybe, when *you* think the time is right, you can "smooth off" the rough edges of your ongoing beta features, and create stable/reliable 'point-releases' every year or so, as the features stablize.

My hopes are raised, but... to be honest, not too much yet. A popular English saying that comes to mind, is 'show me the money'  (you said we should be honest here...)

I too have been away from active 3D work for a long while, and understand that life pulls us in many ways, so it is great to see life calling you back here for a while.

So, I am very glad you are safe and healthy! And I'm happy that you are back and saying that you wish to shine up VWD and make more magic.

Maybe it's a new beginning for this brilliant gem of a tool called VWD.

What do you think, Gérald?

best to you all,

VWD3D/Dan

Hello RedPhantom,

VWD is not only a script for Poser and a script for Daz Studio, it is a compiled program which makes the computation using Multithreading in CPU or GPU.

Script functions are a very small part of the program.

I agree with you about scripting, I will probably have to update the code to be adapted to the current version of the 2 hosts.

Hello Dan,

I want to send you a  message to discuss with you about the program.

I will explain soon what are my ideas about the future of VWD.

Thank you for reading this thread!

Thanks again , Gerard!  As a user who learns as I go, my mastery progresses accordingly. I mostly create my own clothing for my own characters and am at that point of realization, as you noted, that design, and/or strategic thinking, of clothing makes all the difference for results.

Since this forum seems to be the place to go for discussions of VWD, i hope we can regenerate participation from the old gang!

Hi Gérald

It's great to see you back. As I think you know already, my priorities would be for VWD to be a bit more robust (and maybe more informative when it breaks), and just to continue being available!

I've used Blender for cloth, and mostly I find VWD much better.

Best Regards

Hi fuqol217,

Thank you for your comment, I agree with you on the VWD breaks. I know I have a lot of work.

I want to restart slowly even if I want to improve the program in the coming months. Sorry, I won't be able to go any faster.

Best regards.

Hi All,

In first, i wanted to know if VWD was compatible with the latest version of Daz Studio and Poser.

For Daz Studio 4.22 the program works perfectly. For Poser, I don't have the latest version and I can't reply.

I just bought a new computer with a RTX 4070 Ti super. This graphic card allows to make very fast renders but I don't manage to install a correct OpenCL.

Some of you have a solution to this problem?

Thank you for any help.

       Gérald

Hello Gérard

long time no see and hope you are doing well !

also a long time I didn't went to the forum but that didn't mean I stopped doing images and using VWD (much less than I would like :-) ).

In one word : VWD is my ESSENTIAL tool for simulation : efficient , quick  and the famous "drag of vertice" so please:  SHAAAARE !

Tried to remake a De La Tour painting and used VWD for the clothes.

Have a good day !

PS: may be I have the same trouble with my RTX3060 and GPU simulation

.

Hello Smaker1,
as always, your images are beautiful.
For me, it is a pleasure to know that VWD is still used effectively.
About GPU computing, do you know what version of OpenCL is used by your graphics card?
Mine is version 3.0.
I need to decompose the OpenCL initialization to find where the problem is.
Thanks for your message.

rest assured that it's still used and I would like to have more time to use it more :-)  !

As I'm not a tech guy so not sure if I'm correct : the version of "opencl.dll" file in the detail list of the driver of my graphic card is : 3.0.3.0

Hi Gerald, I'm extremely happy to see you back here ! And I hope as fit as is possible.

I'm ready to take absolutely any boat to help VWD to be alive.

I'm using DazStudio almost exclusively, and I had a major computer failure. It took me quite a few months to recover and reinstall my assets.

I suppose G9 support is out of range. Anyway, that should be great !

Excuse me, I am not at home.

I will reply more precisely in july.

yvesab, what is the problem with G9?

I will do some tests soon.

VirtualWorldDynamics posted at 7:24 PM Sat, 11 May 2024 - #2987502

Hello,

I am sending this message after several months of absence.

I could no longer spend so much time on a program that brought me almost no recognition.

Today, I am aware that VWD must continue to bring something to the dynamic simulation of clothing and hair.

I have been working on the program again for several weeks and I am happy with the results obtained both in terms of its possibilities and the simulation results obtained.

There are wonderful artists who have made hyper-realistic clothes and hair that produce sublime static results.

I personally have no intention of trying to compete with them in this area.
I would like the elements created and animated by VWD to be only intended for dynamic simulation, i.e. animations.

The main problem with realistic clothing and hair is the quality of the meshes.
To obtain a realistic result in animation, the mesh must be as regular as possible and this is the goal of the work I am carrying out at the moment.

I'm starting to have clothes and hair that give realistic rendering results while also having very good behavior in simulation.

This message is intended to say what my intentions are. I will soon make a video showing several simulation results.

My question is therefore to know if people would be interested in the work that I want to undertake, that is to say trying to obtain the most realistic character animations possible.
If so, I am ready to intensively resume the development of VWD and share the methods of generating clothes and hair.
If not, I will keep my enjoyment of digital simulation to myself and will probably show videos showing results from time to time.

Thank you for reading me, I await your responses, good or bad.

Best regards.

      Gérald

Hugs and love to you, friend!

Alicia

Best regards.

      Gérald

I removed the image as it contained your personal information. You can repost it without that portion.

I removed the image as it contained your personal information. You can repost it without that portion.

Here's the recropped ScreenShot

Excuse me, I cannot reply to you easily for now.

I will be able to do so in one week. Sorry!

Excuse me, I cannot reply to you easily for now.

I will be able to do so in one week. Sorry!

Good to see there's life here again. 

I was a Marvelous Designer user,  happy with MDBridge, but now that MD fully disappeared into the oblivion of subscription, the latest version with the Python interface still incomplete, I need a replacement.  

If VWD works with the latest Poser version, I think I found that replacement now.

If only to offer encouragement, welcome back!  When last we talked (many months ago now) you were stepping away in some disappointment and I did not expect you would be back.  Imagine my surprise and joy when I peeked in tonight and saw life again in this forum.  Just want to let you know that I maintain Poser 11 on my system for ONE reason only- VWD, because it doesn't work in the newer 12/13.  It does what it does better than anything else, and it's important enough to my workflow that I migrate back and forth between poser versions specifically to use it...that should say something.

I look forward to seeing where you're taking it next!

VirtualWorldDynamics posted at 3:14 PM Thu, 11 July 2024 - #4487305

Hello,

Excuse me for this delay, but it was for a good cause.

I wanted to do some tests with my 4070 TI graphics card because VWD refused to run in GPU with this card.

I am to tell you that now VWD works perfectly with this type of card and especially with OpenCL 3.0.

Not only was I able to do impressive tests with my 4070 but I managed to do calculations with the integrated INTEL cards that also support OpenCL.

The calculation speeds with the integrated cards have nothing to do with the GeForce RTX cards but the calculations are faster than in multithreading.

Speaking of multithreading, I also secured the execution of the threads and I no longer observed crashes.

I did some tests with Genesis 9. The character has a very different shape from Genesis 8 or 8.1 but once the clothes are adjusted, the simulations work correctly.

However, I was unable to apply any animation to this character.

Now, I want to finalize a new version and put it on Renderosity.

My next job will be to make videos explaining the features (new or not) of the program.

Making these videos in English is a huge job for me because I have to start them over several times.

I don't know if there are methods to have real-time translations.

Thank you for listening and for your patience.

Reading the news that you and VWD are back was definitely great news!

VWD is one of my favorite utilities for Daz, it allows me to do cool things!

I was still using it today but due to Daz and GPU driver updates the program could no longer use GPU acceleration, it had to use CPU instead. Still, it was just a matter of waiting a little longer, I was still using it because the results are still great!

Looking forward to try the new version and see what new features and improvements it brings!

BTW, some doubts...

Will this version finally be 64bits compatible?

Will the scenes saved with the previous version be compatible?

Would there be a way for the program to recognize new “meshes”, that is, parts added to the characters apart from their standard mesh, without having to check the OBJ option at the beginning? The difference in speed is considerable doing it one way or the other. Maybe there could be some selection options to make it directly compatible with the most common “additions” (additional meshes) (if you know what I mean, lmao).

As for manuals or video tutorials, I would appreciate if you can make one showing how to change the properties given to the hair or dresses to be able to test without having to start again from the beginning. I'm not sure if it can be done but I suppose it can, although I haven't found any information about it. I think it's something really interesting so that you don't have to repeat the process again from the beginning. I mean, the selection on the hair/dress is the same, the only thing to change many times is how it behaves, the stiffness, the fluidity, how it reacts with neighboring points, etc.... Right now when I see that for example I have given values to a clothes that make them too fluid, I have no choice but to close the program and start again giving it other values.

Finally, and I know that this may be difficult or even impossible (I don't know), is to ask if there would be any possibility in the program to make the necessary calculations to try to make a loop and that the situation of the hair/dress is the same in the first frame and in the last one (taking into account that the pose of the character is the same, and that it is what is desired, which will not always be the case). I say this because many times one wants to use loops in the animations, but since with the simulation everything is “random”, the last frame will hardly coincide with the first one, so many times one uses other shots at the end to put back the animation created. It would be nice if the program would try with its calculations to make a loop, but as I say, I know that this can be tricky and most probably impossible... but by asking I lose nothing.

Thanks a lot!

Thank you for all your responses and comments.

I will answer you more precisely on Sunday.

Hello,

I will try to answer all the questions.

Sepiasiren, I can send you the current version of Renderosity because my future version is not ready yet.

About Poser 12 and 13, I don't have any solution yet but I want to solve this problem.
If someone can send me the PDF document corresponding to the Python functions in version 13, I think I can make the necessary changes in the program.
I don't have the latest version of Poser and I'm currently unable to do any testing.
Could you tell me what the error messages are when trying to launch VWD from Poser 13?

I have no pretensions compared to Marvelous Designer, but the new version of VWD will be able to create clothes.
The next version will also be able to create hair.
I'm working on a video showing this work.
This video will show several animations made with clothes and hair created with my current test version.
As I said before, mesh quality is essential to a quality simulation, which is what I will show in this video.
After that, I will make a video showing a clothing simulation and a hair simulation done with the various parallelization methods.
From a simulation done in a single processor to a simulation done with my RTX 4070 Ti Super card.

I'm thinking about a way to redo a simulation very quickly without starting from scratch.
A solution exists in the current version but I probably haven't explained it enough.
I would also like to work on an UNDO in the program. This function is obviously very useful but requires memory.
I think this is one of the major reasons to move to 64 bits. I think all the libraries I use are now 64-bit accessible.

Regarding the import of characters with additional meshes, I have not done any new tests but if Daz Studio has not made any modifications, the import will have to be done using the OBJ parameter.
I will try, but I suppose it is possible to save this animation and thus only have to do this import once.

In simulation, making a looping video is very complicated because, as you say, the random part makes this process almost impossible.
We can imagine a system of constraints which would become stronger and stronger and force the mesh to return to its original shape. It's not won.

Please tell me if I have answered one or more questions.

Thank you for your support.

 Gerald

 Gérald,

The key difference is Poser12 and Poser 13 use Python 3. The API changes are mostly additions. Scripts that worked on Poser 11 usually work once the typical Python2->Python3 code changes are made. 

The present Poser versions do not have a .pdf but there is online documentation:

http://www.posersoftware.com/documentation/12/index.htm#t=Poser_Python_Manual%2FMethods%2FPoserPython_Methods.htm&rhsearch=python&ux=search

The above is for Poser12. Initially it gives an error message but that is solved once you click a chapter.

Thank you very much FVerbass,
I started looking at the Python help for Poser.
I think it will take some time to analyze how to do this conversion.
I tried Python2 to Python3 converter online but the slightest error causes the entire text to be converted to be rejected.
Do you know of a reliable converter?

I made a first video showing some clothes and hair made with VWD.
I want to make more and more complex clothes.

Here is the link : https://youtu.be/Ec-zKtPfhKY

Gérald:

Two ways to get new versions of Poser for testing:

1: Poser 12 license is now available via Humblebundle at $25.-:

https://www.humblebundle.com/software/poser-12-3d-character-design-pack-software

Bondware confirmed this is fully ligit resale. I assume it also would make you eligible for upgrade to Poser13.

2: Poser13 has a free 21 days trial period. https://www.posersoftware.com/downloads

For Python 2 to 3 conversions: I usually start with a manual pass over the 'print' statements to put brackets around the arguments and from there work on error message feedback. 

You may also want to check this thread: https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2954377/py2-to-py3-conversions

I have just purchased VWD 2 and loaded it into Poser 13 without problems or error mesages. I need to get the hang of the interface, of course, and get it to do something useful, but so far, so good. I had LaFemme 2 and a prop dress imported into the workspace, but trouble to find that 'simulate' button. 

Only trouble i have had is that apparently the Poser library does not work (stays blank) if VWD is running.

I also checked the scripts. They all come as .py, so readable code and not in a binary encoded form. I found in the code no things that would not run within Poser, except one function call I did not recognize.

More to come. I will keep you all posted.

Very well.

With Poser 13 as host, I just ran the 'collapsing sphere' example from the program manual and I managed to bring the deflated shape back into Poser13. I then added a stormy wind force and restarted the simulation to blow the collapsed sphere around. So: This all seems to work fine.

What I am experiencing though is that not all functions from Poser work as long as VWD is running.  For example I could not uncheck the 'animated' check box of the camera. It did not react until I did really exit VWD. 

So far, so good.

Will do a few more of the examples before attempting the 'real' workflow:

- Use Jinny to fit some garment to LF2, export the garment as .FBX,

- import the .FBX in Poser

- run sim in VWD

- export back to Poser and render. 

First error encountered: When running the 'cloth dropping on sphere' example from the program manual I get an error message:

The active item in Poser is the generated VWD cloth prop. 

Ah. I understand the 'active item' must be the one chosen in VWD, not in Poser. That's odd, because one would expect VWD to know which is the 'active-item. 

Anyway. I got the item imported back into Poser. UV- coordinates are maintained, but appear to be reversed. Below shows the cloth before and after draping on the sphere.

Got the culprit: u coordinates are flipped on import. VWD somehow sets this.

From my experiment it seems that only the first imported item is having the U texture swap but will continue to look at it

Seems I was wrong all the U texture of the clothing are swaped. I could not reproduce the clothing 2 and 3 to have a correct UV.

Thank you all for these tests in Poser.
FVerbass, I bought the Poser12 version from Humblebundle.
My first tests seem to work very well, launching VWD and importing the different elements are done perfectly.
However, I had a problem with importing the collision character animation.
I wanted to animate "La femme" and apply to her, the trumpet dress and Zoe hair that I had used in the last animation of the video posted on YouTube.
I replaced the normal animation import with the animation by OBJ.
Using this method, I was able to perfectly apply the dress and hair on "The Woman", the simulation is fast and precise.
This "OBJ" method of importing animation has the disadvantage of being particularly slow because each pose of the animation is first exported in OBJ before extracting the vertex positions.
I will try to debug to understand where the problem is.

I guess you had some difficulties with GPU simulations.
This problem is now solved which allows to make very fast simulations.

Yes. Indeed GPU simulations (RTX 3070) failed. Good to hear you found a solution already.

I successfully loaded an animation of LaFemme2 and ran a simulation to it. See image below. LF2 is the A-posed variant that now comes with Poser13. It helps maybe to turn off subdivision of the figure. Purging the cache may help too. You may want to ask jroulin. He reported he had a problem with LF in animation and solved it via cache purge. 

This was a very simple dress, just for testing the process. 

Question: if I want to do self-overlapping garments,  like a bath robe or a double-breasted jacket buttoned, do I need to do something special to prevent inversion of the layer order?

The self-collision process has several possibilities.
The normal mode detects both sides of the fabric.
My current version greatly improves the self-collision and allows for several test iterations.
I think it is possible to see the different cases in the last video I put on YouTube.

I did new tests with Poser 12 and I think I can say that everything works normally without modifications.
The animation import problems of "La femme" were related to the fact that the character is displayed with a subdivision while the character internally is not subdivided. The export of vertices done in Poser is done in basic mode (not subdivided). This is why the script reading mode did not work while the mode using OBJ files worked correctly.

During the week, I will finalize a version that I will make available to several people for testing.
Many features will not be documented yet but I want to make sure the GPU works properly and that the Poser version works as well.

Just tried a wrapped garment. Results look not bad at all. Just the piping is disconnecting.

I just made a dress that looks like the one you simulated, for me too, the results seem good.

I also just rewrote the functions used for generating garments that I had initially made for Daz Studio. They are now available in Poser.
They will be the subject of several explanatory videos even if they do not represent the entire process of generating a garment.

Hi Gérald

If there are developments coming, I have a suggestion. Could there be an option to save the results of a dynamic simulation as VWD steps through each of the frames? 

I have a lot of great success with VWD in Daz, but it's not unusual for it to freeze part way through, at an apparently random point (ie not the same point when re-run). If I had the simulation result up to the point where it failed, I would be very very much happier! (EG I'm running a simulation of 500 frames today).

I suggest it as a user selectable option, because I guess it may be hungry on disk space, and maybe computation time. (Being able to use the last frame before failure as the start point for a subsequent simulation might make this option even more useful).

Thanks again for your great program and support!

Hello,

I will try to answer all the questions.

Sepiasiren, I can send you the current version of Renderosity because my future version is not ready yet.

Thank you, Gerald; how do I contact you  -- do u still have my email?

Alicia

Hi fuqol27,

I assume you are working with the version that is still currently sold at Renderosity.
I don't know if you are able to do GPU simulations or if you are working in MultiThreading.
The current version at Renderosity has several flaws, the first is an instability of MultiThreading and the second is an inability to work with recent graphics cards that use OpenCL 3.0.
These issues are now fixed and I think I can send a test version to a few people who ask me for it.
Let me know if you are interested.

Alicia, If you wish, I can send you the test version that I am currently finalizing.

Hi Gérald

Sorry not to reply sooner, I have not been on here recently.

I would be very happy to try a test version. I sent you my email address.

Many thanks

Couple months of quiet, any news on how things are coming along?  Still hoping to finally ditch Poser 11 at some point!