well to bad your outfits were looking good :) but sure are hard times for Asset creators atm. you need to have a little luck or just hit a product that allot just want to have. Brokers are not a good help on this there fee's hurt big time and do not make it very motivating at all. Also the prices Creators tend to drop there price, but they do not sell any more as customers look at what they want and do not really care about the price. As creator you should always put the price you want to earn after the 50% broker charge, If you want 15$ then well you need to charge 30$ . these 15$ already make 3 sales of your 5$ :)

Sure it has to make fun being a creator as there is often no big reward and you probably will never get your hour's payed not even after a few years in a store ! So either you can sell allot or the price needs to be raised, not go on sale to much that hurts big time , another 50% puff and you end up with 2.50$ a sale :)

Vendors do not tend talking allot about this, but reality is that most do not get a deserved reward. They think by dropping the price they will, but that is totally wrong thinking. A Poser DS asset has not less quality then a Professionally sold asset, it even has more features and better quality then these.

So all hangs a little together, The presentation, the quality, the price, and every day trying to do better with self critique. Might be me, but every creation I do I think I could of done it even better :) Important is not to sell your self to cheap, allot of customers and end users do not even open a post that is cheap  or does not represent a visual communication 

this is for example a very nice presentation for a product , no distractions and a like a showcase. very good example, wonder why you stopped releasing your products. there is quiet some potential ....

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/147469/petal-showers-for-flower-fairy-outfit

Time. My job is too time consuming. The content-creating was never more than a hobby for me, so now with limited time I rather concentrate on picture-making. But the topic of the thread is poser's future, so perhaps we move back to that.

Rhia474 posted at 12:49 PM Sat, 5 October 2024 - #4490012

Ah, yes, quality of Poser promos is something I have been screaming about for probably years now. Still very rarely I see the quality the DAZ side of this site offers if looking only at the promos. 

A lot of Poser users - and vendors - are STILL afraid to use Superfly and continue stuck in Firefly, which is why a lot of the promos for Poser look like they were made 15 years ago: because they were rendered in an engine that is over 15 years old.

Le sigh. I dearly wish we could rip off that bandaid. There should be standards for promo pictures in 2023.

As a halfway measure, maybe RO could give vendors an easy way to promote an image that used their item. You can already click on the gallery link and see what other people are doing with a product (which is great, I use it), but maybe a way for a vendor to say "this image is great and really shows off my work", highlight it, and give the artist some kind of reward (e.g., could even just be points).

But personally at this point, I basically just assume I will want to rework the shaders on the majority of what I buy. It's just part of setting up a scene.

Oh yes, I do that a lot. There are only few vendors where I know I can use shaders out of the box.

The idea with artistic images I like a lot, provided the artist agrees... a simple box next to content advisory and so on, "my work may be used by vendors as artistic reprensentation of their product" would do the trick. And it should be clearly stated what is a promo image by the vendor and what is a third party artistic render. In fact if I'm not sure wether to buy a product or not I also check the gallaries to see what others did with it and perhaps to see it in different light setups.

I also like the idea of standarts for promos... RDNA used to check the promos before releasing a product. Quite some times  I had to redo or alter mine, which was annoying, but in the end I think it helped me make better promos.

I would love to have more Sci-fi Project E content. I would to have V4 clothing or other model clothing converted to PE. I would but I don't have the time. Maybe there should be job postings for things like that. Poser has always been my go to. Daz is more like iPhone and Poser is more like android.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 2:39 PM Wed, 9 October 2024 - #4490128

Rhia474 posted at 12:49 PM Sat, 5 October 2024 - #4490012

Ah, yes, quality of Poser promos is something I have been screaming about for probably years now. Still very rarely I see the quality the DAZ side of this site offers if looking only at the promos. 

A lot of Poser users - and vendors - are STILL afraid to use Superfly and continue stuck in Firefly, which is why a lot of the promos for Poser look like they were made 15 years ago: because they were rendered in an engine that is over 15 years old.

Right now I render images using both SF and FF. And compare. Often the FF is better. The problems associated with producing great promos are 1) lighting 2) shade/shadow 3) use of color 4) camera angles, 5-the model.... I'm not convinced the SF is always better. Hair, candle light, SF probably better. Scenery, buildings, interiors, table settings... FF is very competitive and often faster. I even compared recently an interior room using SF, FF, and Daz. And the FF was better. Reflections were better, dim lighting was better, fabric textures were better. There's a certain knack to producing great promo renders. You either have it or you don't and it may not have anything to do with the render machine.    

    

It's important to consider the shaders used in the Material Room. Older models tend to render better in Firefly because they are designed for that rendering engine. If you apply the same shaders to Superfly rendering, the results may not match, and could even be worse. Therefore, making a direct comparison without any adjustments is unproductive and a waste of time. Instead, focus on learning how to manipulate and optimize the material shaders to enhance your images and promotional materials for both rendering engines.

JohnMichael posted at 6:05 PM Thu, 31 October 2024 - #4490906

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 2:39 PM Wed, 9 October 2024 - #4490128

Rhia474 posted at 12:49 PM Sat, 5 October 2024 - #4490012

Ah, yes, quality of Poser promos is something I have been screaming about for probably years now. Still very rarely I see the quality the DAZ side of this site offers if looking only at the promos. 

A lot of Poser users - and vendors - are STILL afraid to use Superfly and continue stuck in Firefly, which is why a lot of the promos for Poser look like they were made 15 years ago: because they were rendered in an engine that is over 15 years old.

Right now I render images using both SF and FF. And compare. Often the FF is better. The problems associated with producing great promos are 1) lighting 2) shade/shadow 3) use of color 4) camera angles, 5-the model.... I'm not convinced the SF is always better. Hair, candle light, SF probably better. Scenery, buildings, interiors, table settings... FF is very competitive and often faster. I even compared recently an interior room using SF, FF, and Daz. And the FF was better. Reflections were better, dim lighting was better, fabric textures were better. There's a certain knack to producing great promo renders. You either have it or you don't and it may not have anything to do with the render machine.    

    

Sure have to agree, Doing my self many promo Images every day having nothing to do with the render engine, a car can even have the best results rendering with the poser 4 engine. Superfly is still having massive issues with the Normal maps or I just can't handle these forcing to use bump maps, in certain cases it often renders just flat. When looking at older promos that were made with Firefly from RDNA you get the impression of a time travel back to the roots comparing renders made with Superfly. Naturally all depends if the user even qualifies to make any render  no matter what engine he is using. Considering if you want to match a FF render with a SF then it takes you allot of hour's setting up all the stuff to even come close to it for SF in addition of a good light setup with Props , this sure can take the fun of making your art. It is also just a question of preferences and style.

Versum posted at 8:49 PM Thu, 31 October 2024 - #4490910

JohnMichael posted at 6:05 PM Thu, 31 October 2024 - #4490906

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 2:39 PM Wed, 9 October 2024 - #4490128

Rhia474 posted at 12:49 PM Sat, 5 October 2024 - #4490012

Ah, yes, quality of Poser promos is something I have been screaming about for probably years now. Still very rarely I see the quality the DAZ side of this site offers if looking only at the promos. 

A lot of Poser users - and vendors - are STILL afraid to use Superfly and continue stuck in Firefly, which is why a lot of the promos for Poser look like they were made 15 years ago: because they were rendered in an engine that is over 15 years old.

Right now I render images using both SF and FF. And compare. Often the FF is better. The problems associated with producing great promos are 1) lighting 2) shade/shadow 3) use of color 4) camera angles, 5-the model.... I'm not convinced the SF is always better. Hair, candle light, SF probably better. Scenery, buildings, interiors, table settings... FF is very competitive and often faster. I even compared recently an interior room using SF, FF, and Daz. And the FF was better. Reflections were better, dim lighting was better, fabric textures were better. There's a certain knack to producing great promo renders. You either have it or you don't and it may not have anything to do with the render machine.    

    

Sure have to agree, Doing my self many promo Images every day having nothing to do with the render engine, a car can even have the best results rendering with the poser 4 engine. Superfly is still having massive issues with the Normal maps or I just can't handle these forcing to use bump maps, in certain cases it often renders just flat. When looking at older promos that were made with Firefly from RDNA you get the impression of a time travel back to the roots comparing renders made with Superfly. Naturally all depends if the user even qualifies to make any render  no matter what engine he is using. Considering if you want to match a FF render with a SF then it takes you allot of hour's setting up all the stuff to even come close to it for SF in addition of a good light setup with Props , this sure can take the fun of making your art. It is also just a question of preferences and style.

JohnMichael posted at 11:06 AM Fri, 1 November 2024 - #4490916

Versum posted at 8:49 PM Thu, 31 October 2024 - #4490910

JohnMichael posted at 6:05 PM Thu, 31 October 2024 - #4490906

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 2:39 PM Wed, 9 October 2024 - #4490128

Rhia474 posted at 12:49 PM Sat, 5 October 2024 - #4490012

Ah, yes, quality of Poser promos is something I have been screaming about for probably years now. Still very rarely I see the quality the DAZ side of this site offers if looking only at the promos. 

A lot of Poser users - and vendors - are STILL afraid to use Superfly and continue stuck in Firefly, which is why a lot of the promos for Poser look like they were made 15 years ago: because they were rendered in an engine that is over 15 years old.

Right now I render images using both SF and FF. And compare. Often the FF is better. The problems associated with producing great promos are 1) lighting 2) shade/shadow 3) use of color 4) camera angles, 5-the model.... I'm not convinced the SF is always better. Hair, candle light, SF probably better. Scenery, buildings, interiors, table settings... FF is very competitive and often faster. I even compared recently an interior room using SF, FF, and Daz. And the FF was better. Reflections were better, dim lighting was better, fabric textures were better. There's a certain knack to producing great promo renders. You either have it or you don't and it may not have anything to do with the render machine.    

    

Sure have to agree, Doing my self many promo Images every day having nothing to do with the render engine, a car can even have the best results rendering with the poser 4 engine. Superfly is still having massive issues with the Normal maps or I just can't handle these forcing to use bump maps, in certain cases it often renders just flat. When looking at older promos that were made with Firefly from RDNA you get the impression of a time travel back to the roots comparing renders made with Superfly. Naturally all depends if the user even qualifies to make any render  no matter what engine he is using. Considering if you want to match a FF render with a SF then it takes you allot of hour's setting up all the stuff to even come close to it for SF in addition of a good light setup with Props , this sure can take the fun of making your art. It is also just a question of preferences and style.

Hi. This is a render using P12 FireFly that I did over a year ago. I wasn't able to get the same quality with SF. I have not tried SF from P13 yet using the same scene. I did compare it to a DAZ similar scene and they were about the same.

I'm trying to figure out how to update my P13 to the current version. I know there is an update out there someplace. 

Hava g8 day. 

 

For updates, visit Posersoftware.com.

When transitioning from Firefly to Superfly rendering, shader refinements are necessary, particularly for older content. As previously stated, comparing the render engines without adjusting the shaders will not yield comparable images.

hborre posted at 7:03 PM Thu, 31 October 2024 - #4490907

It's important to consider the shaders used in the Material Room. Older models tend to render better in Firefly because they are designed for that rendering engine. If you apply the same shaders to Superfly rendering, the results may not match, and could even be worse. Therefore, making a direct comparison without any adjustments is unproductive and a waste of time. Instead, focus on learning how to manipulate and optimize the material shaders to enhance your images and promotional materials for both rendering engines.

Ya, I do that most of the time and I also compare DAZ3D renders that were done by the vender.   

For Firefly, that does look great. When we are aware of Firefly's limitations.

For today's standards of 3d, though, the skin looks too waxy, the shadows look too black, and the general lighting looks not-lifelike. It's Firefly limitations. It's like comparing the image quality of Toy Story 1 and Moana. Both look great if you think of the artistic work behind them, but of course Moana looks more real and alive.

Asking for 100$+ every year for this program with minimal additions and fixes will bury it more and more every day. Content creators need to find buyers who will need to buy the program first. As I heard, there is only one developer left to work on poser. It could be false but I will believe it as I see the progress. 

At an age we got all the game engines and 3D programs for free, making your own program which got minimal support/updates/new stuff "paid" is just the worst marketing you can do. Adobe can do that, but poser can't. This is milking a cow corpse, which will not work as we see. 

I don't count that we don't have a proper tutorial about animating. I am animating for 20 years with poser and I still did not see any animating tutorial more than waving hands sinse. 

Furthermore, I still use V4, and I will use her forever, as there is no content for the new models.

I am using Poser 11, as it's nearly rock solid for animating as it just does not crash at all with animate window. Poser 11+ and 12 crashes when you just skip frames a bit faster.

In the end, there is exactly no reason to get Poser if you already use it for 20 years and too old and lazy to learn Blender even Daz. 

Blender is not the solution for everyone. Don't assume those who don't use it are too old and lazy to leran it.  Tried it and hated it. I'll stick with Modo or Cinema 4D.

drages posted at 5:31 AM Thu, 7 November 2024 - #4491065

I am using Poser 11, as it's nearly rock solid for animating as it just does not crash at all with animate window. Poser 11+ and 12 crashes when you just skip frames a bit faster.

In the end, there is exactly no reason to get Poser if you already use it for 20 years and too old and lazy to learn Blender even Daz. 

Way to be condescending and losing your audience who otherwise may have agreed with some of your points like the utter and perplexing lack of updated tutorials. Ageism never looks well when used in an argument.

I'm certainly not too old and lazy for DAZ. And sometimes I do envy them their content. But, would I swich now, I'd rather not calculate how much money I spent on content I'll never use again, and how much I'd  need to spend to have the choice of content I now have for poser available for DAZ. Even not considering content, as I understand, that although DAZ itself is free there are quite some (more or less) necessary addons that are not. To swich programs now is not an option financially. And there may be many more valid reasons besides "being old and lazy".

drages posted at 5:31 AM Thu, 7 November 2024 - #4491065

In the end, there is exactly no reason to get Poser if you already use it for 20 years and too old and lazy to learn Blender even Daz. 

Honest question.

What version of Poser do you use?

I've decided to pretend that Poser 12 and 13 don't exist, just like Ghostbusters 3 or the final trilogy of SW.

It almost feels like Poser has gone woke, completely ignoring its original audience.

And thus, turned completely insignificant now.

Like Hollywood.

;-)

Anyway, Poser 11 still serves me well.

Guess I prefer waxy Firefly skin over a render engine that can't even do displacement properly.

And if you don't like to fix grainyness with a blur filter, isn't even that fast at all.

(That's the original DAZ GIRL with V3UV mapping, btw)

*

I also enjoy the immediate What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get functionality of the morphbrush.

So far Poser's habit to cut a mesh into separate actors and weld it back together has never prevented me from doing with my figures exactly what I wanted to do:

If the morphbrush doesn't care about the way Poser handles its meshes, why should I?

*

No, I don't think Poser has a (commercial) future anymore and I don't see any tendency of Poser 14 to change that outlook.

Dawn and La Femme as well as La Homme are proof that the Poser Team has learned nothing from their past failures or the honest feedback that has been given again and again.

Instead they double down and blame others.

Just like Hollywood.

:-P

*

But that's not my problem anymore.

As long as I have a working copy of Poser 11 and a machine to run it on, I'm golden.

And that, to me, is all what matters.

:-)

JoePublic posted at 10:05 AM Fri, 8 November 2024 - #4491126

It almost feels like Poser has gone woke

This "argument" is the fastest way to make me stop reading everything the person says after. Kinda hard to read anything after my eyeballs have revolved back into my skull out of sheer exhasperation.

I guess for those that don't use Superfly P11 is perfectly fine.... 

For those that have gpu hardware that doesn't work in P11, P11 it isn't an option if they want to use Superfly at any speed other than crawling on a cpu or older gpu that is supported in P11..... Or if they want to use the new version of Superfly, which is way faster than the version in P11.............

Rtx 2000 series is the newest GPU you can use with P11.  By todays standards, all of those 2000 cards are very slow....

I still have a 2000 series in my machine, just for P11 (script reasons). I have 3 gpus atm.

My machine has 20 cpu cores, I use P13 with superfly running on a 4070ti, and Firefly is so slow compared to gpu rendering I don't use it much anymore. 

Just the difference in node setup is reason alone why I don't use it... You need a massive amount of nodes to do anything in Firefly that is comparable to Superfly.

My GPU is fast enough to do renders in about 5 min.

Here is an example. Try to do that in 5 minutes with Firefly, it wont have finished the IDL pass in 10.

Firefly would take 30 minutes or more to do a render like that with 20 cpu threads working on it... I know that because that is what I have, a 13th gen I5, with 20 threads.

My factory overclock 4070ti does superfly renders very fast. And has enough memory to subdivide the meshes to death for displacement and detail.

I have HD morphs at level 3 in some of my personal things, simply because I have the memory to do so, in both the cpu and gpu.

Most path tracers don't support micro poly displacement... That is nothing new, Monte Carlo engines almost always have micro poly displacement... Superfly supports displacement, but not micro displacement.. Subdivide it and be done with it... That is exactly what micro poly displacement does, it subdivides areas that need more mesh resolution. The only difference in Superfly, is that you do the entire mesh manually.... So basically the only real differences are complaining about the manual step to do so, and the hardware needed to do so....

To state that Poser isn't going to have a future year after year, stating the same reasons year after year, is a bit silly to me...

The vast majority of people that do so rarely use any of the newer features, and could still be using P6, literally.....

Those that state that always have multiple reasons to stay with an older version.... Which is fine, stay with it....

Until I can get results like above in a few minutes, Firefly is not going to be used much by me.

I am not alone in that either......

The only thing done to the image above after P13 rendered it, is a color filter. Yes, it used PostFX in Poser too...

@ JoePublic posted at 10:05 AM Fri, 8 November 2024 - #4491126

Woke (wōk) adjective: "Aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues." - Merriam-Webster

So yes, we try really hard to be "woke" when it comes to the Poserverse. When we get feed back, complaints, rants or the rare constructive criticism the Poser team always takes it seriously. I never quite understood why situational awareness is considered a bad thing.

Let's unpack the point. If Poser still serves you even if it's Poser 1, good. That's what it's supposed to do. Nowhere in the click-wrap license did you agree to sell any organs, be stitched together as a human centipede or that you were compelled to buy the next release of Poser. The fact that FireFly fits your needs is definitely acknowledged. FireFly isn't going away. FireFly produces render styles SuperFly can't. But, when I want a photo-real render and I don't want to wait days for it. The P13 SuperFly is literally 40 times faster than it was in P11. That's not 40%, 40 times faster. Renders that took hours now take minutes.

But, without users who support future developments there really will be no future. For those who support a future with Poser, we really appreciate and thank you for believing in the Poserverse.

P.S. The noise reduction in P12 and P13 is not a blur filter. It's Intel Open Image Denoise, an AI based noise removal: https://www.openimagedenoise.org/

There were offers back in 2019 to Improve Figure creations, they could of been far advanced to any released until now, even advanced to the ones in DS, but Poserverse is stuck in a old system, even that SM tried to offer the support for advanced skinning. Rather to listen and be attentive there was ignorance all the way, there was 0 interest in growing. Either it was or is something no one ever wanted or just are not capable of. I have no clue! But instead of listening you kicked these out of the community including all the purchases. Why ? because you thought that a little group would be the messiah of poser with La Femme. It is very disappointing as Poser would of had a chance, and even a good one. 

 

Sure I continue to support Poser no matter what, you had the chance to grow , you had the chance to learn new techniques, there were offers . but you have chosen the  ignorant way by banning it . Meanwhile the technology expands all the way into DS ( Multi compatible Skinning ) and no it does not stop there with this is grows into every possible application without any loss of Integrity in a fragment of time. 

It does not have to be a Creature like in the Image ( That is just Me ), it can be anything you can imagine, any high end Doll if you wish , and yes poser is the bridge because it carries features you are not even aware of . 

I read these forums allot, and I have to say there are some that still try to communicate there knowledge, even if only a few that are left , there is just a little barrier of understanding as things might be difficult to explain for an artist.  But they tell you how it works, the main result is that there is a little group in here that just does not want to accept it , rather stick on old methods, flame the ones who could bring improvements and new features, cause them to go, or even to ban!  So much for listening! 

Yes Poser renders Faster, yes you made some Improvements, but you have forgotten that you need creators with new technologies to use your features, this is the point where you get stuck . La femme , Dawn , are still based on the old technology so what do you expect ?  You could of done skinning in a fragment of time but you choose the way of years, you do not want to grow , as you seem to be stuck in a soap bubble .

It does not mean that developers are not willing to bring the new , the better, the faster, it means that you just were listening to the wrong group with a big attention disorder stuck in the old way of creation. 

You would of been at a point meanwhile where you could of been the one who brings models into Poser into DS without any big effort and via versa. But sure not with the La femme technology. You were on the right track with Unimesh but I guess there were some slight problems :)

Yes poser has allot of potential, from my experience you could even of made DS dependent on it, because of the fact that id does carry the technology to do so. You just do not want to see, or you just do not want to know.  You might have to look a litte into another direction rather then to get distracted by a group that seems to be stuck, as these will not bring you any success.

"Poser has gone woke." What does that even mean? Should it be eating the cats and dogs (or some crazy thing like that)? Hehehehe...

nerd posted at 2:45 PM Fri, 8 November 2024 - #4491146

@ JoePublic posted at 10:05 AM Fri, 8 November 2024 - #4491126

P.S. The noise reduction in P12 and P13 is not a blur filter. It's Intel Open Image Denoise, an AI based noise removal: https://www.openimagedenoise.org/

Might be the reason why the render from shvrdavid gives the impression that it has gone through a AI Render for correction purpose, it has the typical Eye error distortion that older AI Generators cause, my first impression was that it has gone through AI also because the hands are hidden, so it might just be due the AI based noise removal !? 

You assume a lot.

It is UV distortion from using a really small hand drawn texture, and eyes that have to be dilatated a lot to get to the pupil that far open.

Did you think I was going to use an 8k texture on the eyes to get a fast render? 256x256 causes issues with those eyes, for sure....

The skin is done exactly the same way... You probably didn't notice that thou. Most of them are 512x512, except the normal map, which is 4k.

You don't want or need big textures to get that type of skin, and they eyes obviously show issues when one pixel off difference in UV layout changes it massively.

I used bigger iris textures after that, like this.... They are from one of my retail characters, and obviously don't distort..... The skin is still 512x512 with 4k normals, painted in 3DCoatTextura.

 

Can confirm hands are just fine with Poser's built in denoiser postworker:

Closeup, in case there is doubt (denoised at 1.000):

(and yes, that's a Superfly render, both of them)

Versum posted at 5:51 PM Fri, 8 November 2024 - #4491160

nerd posted at 2:45 PM Fri, 8 November 2024 - #4491146

@ JoePublic posted at 10:05 AM Fri, 8 November 2024 - #4491126

P.S. The noise reduction in P12 and P13 is not a blur filter. It's Intel Open Image Denoise, an AI based noise removal: https://www.openimagedenoise.org/

Might be the reason why the render from shvrdavid gives the impression that it has gone through a AI Render for correction purpose, it has the typical Eye error distortion that older AI Generators cause, my first impression was that it has gone through AI also because the hands are hidden, so it might just be due the AI based noise removal !? 

It's not that kind of AI. It's not going to make your figures grow 6 fingers or extra eyeballs. (Nor will it possess your programmable thermostat.) It only works on the inherent noise created by ray tracers. It's trained specifically to detect that noise and correct it.

ok Understand, some sort of Denoiser like Topaz is using 

It was not meant to criticize the render from shvrdavid it was a Impression caused from the Irregular Iris. Eyes are mostly the first thing you are looking at on portraits

   

Woke, as in catering to the whims of a small , but loud minority, without regard to reality or the greater good.

Basically:

Poser was always aimed at hobbyists, not professionals.

It was most popular when it encouraged tinkering and broad participation.

Now even the python scripts are decrypted. (And phone home)

Figures are not user friendly. Overly "clever" rigging disencourages do-it-yourself modifications without even resulting in superior bends.

All those extra bones add to memory consumption and the more complicated a cr2, the more likely something will fail.

When I look at Superfly renders, I see no consistency. Some turn out quite nice, like shvrdavid's second render, but many don't.

It seems that every texture change, every change of light needs a different approach to shader construction.

Firefly is way more stable IMO.

I already mentioned the lack of displacement. Combined with the lack of proper edgelooping in current Poser figures, that means that any bodydetail, even down to minute details, has to be created via subdivision.

That is quite taxing on your average customers' laptop.

Why are you so eager to meet "CGI industry" standards?

in my opinion a figure like Michael 2 is the most "easy to use" and "Bang for the buck" Poser figure ever made.

Just 31.000 polygons and see how much detail you can squeeze out of him:

Yes, ALL of these three figures are based on the Michael 2 mesh!

First one is just a bit of dial spinning and scaling. Third one is a Rikishi clone I made with the Morphbrush.

And the lady in the middle is the original Aiko, based on Stephanie 1, which was created using Michael's mesh.

(Well, I guess men DO make better females after all)  ;-P

And there is no subdivision or displacement going on here.

So if I wanted, I could up the level of detail considerably, while still getting better performance than those "industry standard" Poser figures.

And that mesh works extremely well with weightmapping and the MorphBrush.

*

So this is what I'm fighting for since the day I noticed that DAZ meshes started to have Studio only features.

Our very own "as complicated as necessary but as simple as possible" hobbyist-friendly allrounder mesh, that brings the FUN back into Poser.

*

But as the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water..."

*

And maybe there IS a different explanation for the fact that 99% of the items in the Rendo Marketplace are not Poser assets anymore.

Maybe it's because everyone just hates Poser so they are blind for all the wonderful things you guys did with in the past.

And it has nothing to do with strategic decisions like disabling thousands of hours worth of Python scripting.

Or implementing a renderer not even the experts seem to be able to properly understand.

Or creating Z-brush friendly figures that are so appaling that no professional CGI artist feels the impulse to actually support them.

Nope, can't be.

Must be totally something else.

:-)

This thread is starting to spin its wheels and rehash old arguments rather than being helpful so I'm locking it before the fights that will inevitably follow start.