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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 14 9:14 am)
Subject: "Great News from Curious Labs!"
Attached Link: http://www.zipcon.net/~cdisdero
I think it is the new upcoming World Builder 3.0 plug-in. If you look at www.digi-element.com 's latest info and update you will see that they allude to it there.
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=439015
You may be right. Checking back, I did find the thread I was thinking of, and Steve did actually give a few hints.
hi everybody, i'm a truespace and povray person... and a poser wannabe. i was wanting to post and ask when the next poser was coming out but geez... thats such a generic post for any software that i just couldn't bring myself to do it. but i wanted to know so i could decide on whether to buy poser 4 or wait for 5. so poser 5 is gonna be a while, huh? thanks, miker
Press release from Curious Labs........ Amid speculation of a new product release, Steve Cooper of Curious Labs, announced today that They would not be releasing Poser5. Instead they will be jumping to Poser version 10. Mr. Cooper went on to say that any comparisons between Maya 4 and Poser 10 would be unfair since Maya still uses a keyboard while Poser 10 has a direct mental link ability. In addition he stated that Poser 10s ability to generate exact 3d objects solely from photographs put Poser 10 in a league of its own. When Mr. Cooper was asked how well their new Direct mind link OS code named Victoria was selling he simply stated that a different news release would deal with that question. When asked why this sudden change had occurred Mr. Cooper directed all further questions to his new 3 foot tall, green skinned, Vice President of Operations known as Klatu. Press release from Curious Labs Sources close to Steve Cooper have leaked information that Curious Labs has been given the go ahead to indeed purchase Microsoft Corp. The spokesperson for Microsoft said the purchase of Microsoft had nothing to do with faltering sales of their XP product.
While that "press announcement" would ordinarily be amusing, at this present moment in time I don't find it very funny. Why not? Because I would happily commit genocide on any chosen race for the ability to utilise a neural link to operate my computer and applications, especially Poser which has such a redundant interface that it makes a mockery of the term "user friendly". S
Not sure I would go so far as genocide... but I would be willing to give up cookies for the rest of my life Questor to do just that! ;p And I agree, the user interface is overly clumsy, and could be more space saving and easier to use. Less artistic and more functional. Grey! with eenssy teensy buttons. ;p
I think they have already anounced the World Builder tie-in, so it can't be that, I hope. I was thinking not "Poser 5 will be up for sale Tuesday" I was hopeing for "Poser 5 will be out (...), Poser 4 purcahasers after date (...) would be entitled to a free upgrade or discount" "Poser 5 will include..." I don't really care for no stinking avatars, I don't even know what that is!
too right Jim.. Would be nice if they would do plugins that would help us out within poser with such like cloth wrinkles and hair textures etc, but outside type of plugins are only usefull for those who own the software that they plug into. I thinks that CL wastes a bunch of time sitting aroud dreaming up stuff which we don't want or need, and are less than likely to do what we want in the near future.
but I would be willing to give up cookies I dunno Mehndi, that seems a heck of a lot more drastic than my choice. I just can't imagine giving up my Highland Shortbread cookies, I just can't... That's the stuff of true nightmares. G a plug-in for Bryce ROTFLMAO... Sorry VirtualSite I'm not laughing at "you", but this is one area where Corel really dropped the ball and Eon (Vue d'Esprit) picked it up big time. I have no idea whether a plug in is possible from Curious, but yeah, it sure would be nice.
I don't have a problem with the Poser interface. The buttons don't need to be much smaller because there are just not that many controls that need to be squeezed in. Many people with high end 3D programs really resent Poser. In the past, they could justifiably mock the look of Poser characters.. but lately, I think their resentment is based more on jealousy. They don't like looking at the awesome Poser models and textures.. because they make their own work appear to be inferior. As for the avatar issue... I'm not a gamer myself.. but don't discount the wisdom of branching into that area. Perhaps it doesn't appeal to us, at this time.. but the gaming industry generates as much income as major motion pictures do. If they create a state of the art tool for game developers.. there is plenty of money out there to buy it.
(following the thread)---
I've been using gmax for making models. For those who don't know, gmax is Discreet's (Studio Max) approach to tapping into the game tweaking community.
Currently, there is only a beta (?) plugin to import and export Quake III stuff (levels, characters and objects).
If Curious Labs is going to release gmax plugins then LOOK OUT! Modeler heaven!!!
Please let it be, please, please....
I have been thinking about things that would serious help with poser that would not require a huge re-build as far as I know.
- Instead of hosting poser in outside applications, host outside render engines in Poser. Imagine when you hit "render" if it was the Bryce engine that showed up?
- Extend the Python interface. As far as I can tell Python cannot do simple things like ... delete lights :(
- While we are at it... give me the ability to delete all the lights in a scene with one click
- Direct3D and QuickDraw 3D. Let peopel with high end cards work in a environment that better represents the scene
- Real reflections. I mean, a 3D program that can't do a simple mirror?
- An optional "explorer" interface to the library... let me make multiple levels of sub-folders
- A library management utility. Let me re-organize my items while poser handles making sure the geometry and mat references stay valid
Ah well. Wishful thinking.
When you have your ass back on Questor, although it was short-sighted of Corel not to give B5 the ability to read .pz3 files, the problem of Bryce-Poser compatibility is still partly CL's fault. When Poser creates an .obj file it also creates a .mtl file to describe the textures - but it only exports PART of the texture data to the .mtl file. If Poser wrote the whole of it, Bryce would read it. (You can check this by hand-editing the .mtl file.) Therefore CL could issue a P4 patch that would export the full .mtl info.
In my opinion, if it is not Poser 5 I'm going to be dissapointed and lose a lot of hope in Curious Lab's abilities and dedication to the product. They've had ownership of it for quite a while now and have dodged all questions about an upgrade, much less releasing one. They seem to be placing their attentions everywhere else, but on the product itself... building out their web store, etc. Clue: There are a million places to buy the products your beginning to sell in your store. While the store may add a little to the bottom line, if you'd like to remain a going concern focus on yours! I'm already beginning to move away from Poser. If things don't happen fairly soon, I'm affraid Curious Labs may loose this guy as a customer (and I've been around since Fractal's Poser 1). The industry is leaving them behind, and the community is out growing their product. How much more can truly be done with Poser as it stands???? Honestly?
Attached Link: http://www.acidplanet.com/Lounge/Detail.asp?PID=113034
Do you really think so? Do you have the Pro Pack? That seemed like a good solution to me. It let us 'upgrade'.. while still letting the main 'hobbyist' user base have the latest version. Having to buy new versions of software isn't always the most desirable thing. I just upgraded to Cinema4DXL7 and I'm dreading a version8, because then all the work will then be focused on that and I'll feel like I've got an 'old' product. Between the Pro Pack and the great models and textures available from DAZ and artists like Catharina Przezak, Poser can do vastly superior things compared to a few years ago. I put a Poser animation in a contest and I've got Max users who can't believe that it's done with Poser. They say things like; "If that's Poser, I want Poser!" I gave a link to the animation if you want to see it. I'm really not concerned with what number is slapped on behind the name "Poser", as long as the results can be as great as is now possible.
Attached Link: http://www.shistudios.com
I do think so. I too am very amazed by the ingenuity and creativity of the Poser community, but I want increased materials, texturing, and rendering options (similar to Bryce) native in Poser. No, in fact I need them. One of the primary reasons why I'm being forced to consider other products... I see Pro Pack as a minor upgrade. It really doesn't blow me away. I believe Steve Cooper when he says they're working hard on Poser, but (honestly) I'm terrified that they're losing focus on the product in a desperate effort to turn coin. For the artist, it seems to always be man vs. machine. You're right, software versioning removes the focus from creativity to learn the product. Creativity does come from being forced to push a product (like Poser) beyond its boundaries, really beyond what it was intended to do. And it is clearly evident that the community has done that in a breathtaking way. On the other hand, it's really time to bump it up a notch. Bryce is a good sister product. I'm currently working on texturing models in Bryce, but the lack of animation and the neccessity to recreate the model in Bryce for a simple change in a character's Pose makes it difficult. Finally, forgive an offenses, really I'm just anxious for the increased capabilities Steve has hinted at, and worried that Curious Labs may be under serious pressure and may not last. Honestly, Poser will go where ever I do (Bryce, Lightwave, Maya...). It's a great product, I just don't want to see it languish.
As I said in an earlier thread, I really thing CL needs to get Poser 5 out the door real-soon-now, else they are going to loose creditabilty. And I also think part of the problem is they are really trying to do all the stuff we asked, and we asked for the sun and the moon! Heck, I'd buy a Poser 5 upgrade if it jst had more readable morph dials! But now! Incidently, one problem with announcing future versions is the sales for the current one dry up, as people wait, so if they do that (announce it) it is customary to have some kind of very liberal upgrade for people who purchase the old version before the new one is ready.
Thank you zspider Jim, I know what you mean about those dials! I've got a 21" monitor and I still have to lean forward to read them. JAB.. how can you get anything done with Bryce? I have it but it's not even installed anymore. The render times are just way way too long, no matter what I'm rendering with that program. If you can possibly afford Cinema4D, you will have a blast, and you'll have far greater modeling and rendering capabilities, along with perfect Poser integration. Maybe you can qualify for a student version somehow? As far as Curious Labs and their 'business plan'.. I think we all tend to take things for granted sometimes.. such as the fact that such stunning output is now possible and that there are so few technical problems. Try hanging out in a Lightwave community for awhile. Imagine constantly having Poser crash on you and fail to do the things that it's supposed to.. and imagine that you had paid $2000 for it! Then you'd appreciate what a prize Poser really is. None of us know the challenges that Curious Labs faces, just to stay alive. The fact that this huge community exists, based almost solely on their product is an indication that they are doing something right. We only care about Poser, so we don't appreciate them moving in other directions.. but despite our 'theories', they are succeeding and probably know what they need to do, to continue to stay alive. As Sergeant Jack and JoatMon pointed out.. their expansion might not only bring in a group with huge money resources.. it will expose a whole new audience, (a huge one) to Poser. Can you imagine if Poser was discontinued? We'd all be in mourning for quite awhile. I'm not condemning anyone for asking for 'more', or critisizing the flaws in Poser, I have emailed them and torn them a new asshole myself.. but I think I also have to give credit, where credit is due.
Pro Pack as Poser 5... that's lame I'm not even going to comment. What I want, Bryce quality texturing and rendering in Poser so that I don't have to resort to Lightwave, etc. to animate. And I just want a tiny indication that Poser is still alive (as a product, not only a community). I work with a 16Ghz rendering farm to make Bryce perform...
Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com/products/avatarlab/index.html
What a bitchin thread. I assume you've all heard the news by now, and seen the AvLab product. Here's the skinny- there's developmental stuff in AvLab that will end up in the next rev of Poser (still far away), some that's obvious, the face lab for instance, and others that aren't- a whole new framework for greater stability and streamlined development. We are working hard on Poser 5, and AvLab fits right into the evolutionary cycle, gives us something cool in the process, and validates some other behind the scenes concepts. Plus, I am feeling very good about partnering as tightly with Adobe as we have, and I truly believe that online communities (this one is a great example) have room for growth inside a virtual 3D environment with our charcaters representing YOU. Call me a crazy sci-fi-future phreak, but I want this to happen, and Atmosphere is a pretty good hat thrown into the cyberspace ring... kupa on koffee BTW, pay no attention to that little green man behind the microsfot curtain...
Kupa: Thanks for the info - its always good to know that something is cooking in the kitchen! But is Atmosphere really ALL THAT? I mean, hey, do you think any serious game developers could use it to make Everquest or Dark Ages of Chamelot? As far as I can see, all you can do is make VR chatrooms with avatars, and that is old news. Even so, I'd probably buy it just as a cute toy, if its not too expensive. On the other hand, as a sneak peek of features that might appear in Poser 5 (for the full figures) it is very exciting!
ronstuff, you're right, it won't replace everquest, but i'll tell you this, all the girls in the office are much more comfortable in Atmopshere chats ;-) I am sitting on some potential project using Atmosphere environments that couldn't be recreated without a "tool" to build and deliver onlinbe environments for entertainment, community, commerce, thematic parks, etc... sneak peek- a major manufacturer of european high-end sports cars wants to build an online dealership so you can click a few buttons, preview the custom configured car you want to order, have that data captured and transfered via an html database to the physical dealership you'll order tha car at, and voila, you've got the details, and you cut the best deal - that can't be done without a tool, and it's a tool from Adobe, which lends credibility- plus you need people from us- that's a pretty good tool-based solution that doesn't need a $100,000 licensed environment engine with a $100,000 physics module. and better yet, it's a sub $100 character tool and a "for-now" free builder tool to create those enviroenemnts that ultimately hosts the environment on YOUR website. In Adobe's eyes- this is a 3D platform, rather than simply an immersive experience. They might just be on to something... ;-) kupa
Mehndi, Yes. Avatar Lab exports .pz3 files. If you create a custom photo-based charcater in AvLab, it can be used as a fully articulated figure in Poser. The figures are lower resolution than most users typically work with, but for crowds of distant clusters of characters it will work well. The custom texture map of the face image needs to be hand walked over to Poser, but the workflow is smooth otherwise. Going the other direction, animations and objects can be brought into AvLab, so it effectively creates a new market for content creators. Warning though- if you are going to deploy custom charcaters from Poser derived content online, high-poly counts will crash or choke worlds. We throw a warning up if figures higher than 5000 polys are going to published. kupa The
How wonderful... something that has almost guaranteed dead-end use, whereas actually developing the program by improving, for example, its animation capabilities or a cusotm clothing lab or its rendering engine or (as has been often requested) the ability to import animation files into Bryce (I would kill for that, but the utility out there is PC only, as is (big surprise) Atmosphere)... what is wrong with these people at CL? Why do they develop these tiny step adjustments and make them into something sounding like the hottest thing to hit 3D since sliced bagels?
Is there someone doing it better? You obviously think it's the best program of it's kind or you wouldn't be using it. They give us a kick ass program for an incredibly cheap price. They give us a Pro Pack that has amazing features, such as adding bones to your character and exporting to top rendering programs. They promise many new features in Poser5, which they are working on.... ... and people still tell them how to run their business.. and what software they are allowed to develop. It sure must be hard to run a company and have to constantly hear this stuff. Can you imagine people bitching at General Electric because they themselves only use microwave ovens and they don't think GE should be building toaster ovens? I think some people are just jealous of success and use this opportunity to spout off at someone who has 'made it', simply because the person is nice enough to make themselves available to us. Try emailing Apple and getting some help. They don't even have an email address on their site.
VS, Photo-based modeling is a huge feature, pioneered in AvLAb, for delivery at higher resolutions down the road. Rendering improvements- have I been keeping a secret here on this one? I don't think so. other ill kept secrets on my end- clothing, fabric, collision detection. you should read the original spotlight interview. last one...hmmm how do i answer this- bryce integration? until Conan came on board there were some lopsided revenue sharing issues. they wanted access to ours while they were licensing our technology. I think Conan could wind up being our mutual hero on this one. what's wrong with us? certainly not these issues. ;-) kupa
poo-ware. I like that. Sounds exactly like the kind of software that we don't develop- like hooking up that microwave to the internet, or connecting my alarm clock to an ethernet port. This is about 3D characters, communities like this one and Poser being a part of all the different possibilities it can be- hello... mcFly... kupa
"But is Atmosphere really ALL THAT? I mean, hey, do you think any serious game developers could use it to make Everquest or Dark Ages of Chamelot"
I agree. The tech in Atmosphere really doesn't seem to be capable of the type of rendering we see commonly on even the lower end rendering systems games use. Why in the world didn't they build Atmosphere on the Lithtech engine or something else froma company that actually knows how to do real time graphical effects?
Atmosphere is cute, and with Adobe behind it it will have slightly longer legs than other entries have, but it really isn't good enough for the avatar revolution. Hopefully Microsoft will do something soon - the are working on a number of projects in this area and they do know how to do real time engines (several of their games are massively multi-player and well rendered in real time).
We have been evaluating Atmosphere for this usage (large world interaction and walk-throughs) and the API doesn't look like it will be useful for more than chat rooms and the rendering engine just - well... look at it. sigh
"How wonderful... something that has almost guaranteed dead-end use,"
Again, agreed. So we have a custom product to manipulate low polygon characters in limited ways. No help there. And it seems to to be geared to Atmosphere. It seems we could have done the same things with a new set of low poly characters for Poser and some improvements to the library system.
I think CL is very passionate about seeing the Avatar thing happen - and that's good, but I think they picked the wrong horse.
"You obviously think it's the best program of it's kind or you wouldn't be using it."
And that means what? That it doesn't have huge gaping chunks of improvement opportunity? That we shouldn't comment on it's flaws? Poser is the best program for it's price, it is far from the best program of it's kind. Hell, the hair deformation functions in the Max system is worth it's weight.
I think Poser is a great tool - but more and more I think we will be using it for prototyping a character before we have them rebuilt under Max and re-boned. We are looking at some long format movie style rendering projects and the more we looka t it the more we see that Poser simply can't do it.
"This is about 3D characters, communities like this one and Poser being a part of all the different possibilities it can be- hello... mcFly..."
I certainly agree that the concept is nice. But Atmosphere? You really think Adobe can pull this off? No. Microsoft would be the folks to hook up with on this. Hell, you'd have done better making the Avatar builder software work to build Quake/Lithtech avatars.
I sure don't mean to offend you on this, and I am sure Adobe is a lucrative partner - but there are valid fears that your (the companies) passion is clouding your judgment.
"But is Atmosphere really ALL THAT? I mean, hey, do you think any serious game developers could use it to make Everquest or Dark Ages of Chamelot"
I agree. The tech in Atmosphere really doesn't seem to be capable of the type of rendering we see commonly on even the lower end rendering systems games use. Why in the world didn't they build Atmosphere on the Lithtech engine or something else froma company that actually knows how to do real time graphical effects?
Atmosphere is cute, and with Adobe behind it it will have slightly longer legs than other entries have, but it really isn't good enough for the avatar revolution. Hopefully Microsoft will do something soon - the are working on a number of projects in this area and they do know how to do real time engines (several of their games are massively multi-player and well rendered in real time).
We have been evaluating Atmosphere for this usage (large world interaction and walk-throughs) and the API doesn't look like it will be useful for more than chat rooms and the rendering engine just - well... look at it. sigh
"How wonderful... something that has almost guaranteed dead-end use,"
Again, agreed. So we have a custom product to manipulate low polygon characters in limited ways. No help there. And it seems to to be geared to Atmosphere. It seems we could have done the same things with a new set of low poly characters for Poser and some improvements to the library system.
I think CL is very passionate about seeing the Avatar thing happen - and that's good, but I think they picked the wrong horse.
"You obviously think it's the best program of it's kind or you wouldn't be using it."
And that means what? That it doesn't have huge gaping chunks of improvement opportunity? That we shouldn't comment on it's flaws? Poser is the best program for it's price, it is far from the best program of it's kind. Hell, the hair deformation functions in the Max system is worth it's weight.
I think Poser is a great tool - but more and more I think we will be using it for prototyping a character before we have them rebuilt under Max and re-boned. We are looking at some long format movie style rendering projects and the more we looka t it the more we see that Poser simply can't do it.
"This is about 3D characters, communities like this one and Poser being a part of all the different possibilities it can be- hello... mcFly..."
I certainly agree that the concept is nice. But Atmosphere? You really think Adobe can pull this off? No. Microsoft would be the folks to hook up with on this. Hell, you'd have done better making the Avatar builder software work to build Quake/Lithtech avatars.
I sure don't mean to offend you on this, and I am sure Adobe is a lucrative partner - but there are valid fears that your (the companies) passion is clouding your judgment.
Soulhuntre, The beauty of AvLab from a developmental standpoint is that it can be re-worked to support a game system that has a long enough lifespan to justify us rolling out a new rev of the product, but game communities are way more expensive to market a product to than what we can do to address an Atmosphere customer, and far greater a crapshoot. Developing AvLab, today, for Atmosphere takes advantage of more of our existing technology than going in any other direction. Is Microsoft interested in us supporting something in the fashion of an xBox exporter, sorry I can't go into that, but suffice it to say that they're interested in everyone in this arena for the time being. BTW, I can acknowledge that we work with Intel. Adobe a lucrative partner?- cooperative is a better word. As for the technology? It's raydiosity rendered lighting, that's very high end, it depends on how the user chooses to light the scene. Coarse textures? -user choice again. Is it a PS2 quality 3D experience? no. But I don't spend time playing games, so perhaps I'm not as affected by the appearance, it's a f##kload better than any form of VRML, or any other web 3D though. Picking the wrong horse? not from my cloudy perspective. Will it be a success? no guarantees on anything, shoot, we could develop a great P5 with every bell and whistle in the world, make it too expensive and no-one wants to buy it. Even that's not a guaranteed success, it's about gambling, with hopefully enough inside knowledge that we can place our money on the right horse. The way that you use Poser is great. I love hearing about folks with deep production projects trying to get the "little tool that could" do what they need it to do. If it doesn't fulfill that, you should move on to character studio or another product that meets your needs, really. We can't be character studio. And the first step of Pro Pack hosting would have been undeliverable if it held parameter level control- for the future though,it's becoming a justifiable expense. more on this later... gotta go for now...
"It's raydiosity rendered lighting, that's very high end, it depends on how the user chooses to light the scene."
Cool! Clearly they aren't doing radiosity in real time - do you know if they are using pre-calculated light maps?
"Is it a PS2 quality 3D experience? no. But I don't spend time playing games, so perhaps I'm not as affected by the appearance, it's a f##kload better than any form of VRML, or any other web 3D though"
Well, yeah ... but that's not that high a bar to jump over :) I think for an online avatar experience to work it is going to have to be good and look good... Dark age of Camelot is the closest to the right thing so far graphically. But yes, I think things are going to have to look as good as Xbox or PS2 in order to capture the interest widely.
"The way that you use Poser is great. I love hearing about folks with deep production projects trying to get the "little tool that could" do what they need it to do. If it doesn't fulfill that, you should move on to character studio or another product that meets your needs, really. We can't be character studio. And the first step of Pro Pack hosting would have been undeliverable if it held parameter level control- for the future though,it's becoming a justifiable expense."
And we are for some things. Again, Poser is becoming more of a prototyping application for us... we can design our characters and clothing and then get a modeler to make us a more CS compatible version that we can animate in Max. It's a cool workflow and it looks like a winner for us. But it would be really cool if we could make more use of our investment in Poser stuff for longer into the lifespan.
I am VERY interested in the idea of a more complete Pro pack plug in system - something like that could, once again, help companies like mine keep our poser stuff a lot longer - and that gives us a greater incentive to support those vendors here and at Daz that are the economic driving force of the Poser community.
I am glad to hear that AvLab can target different back ends... that is helpful to know.
I don't mean to make it sound like you guys are not smart - you are. I just think there is a wave cresting that could propel Poser into many more places - and that that will do a lot for the thriving cottage industry that is the Poser community. This can be done in a way that won't hurt the consumer level Poser folks.
Sounds like a winner.
Cool! Clearly they aren't doing radiosity in real time - do you know if they are using pre-calculated light maps? Yes, they do. If you are interested in that, I really recommend trying out Adobes public beta of the builder tool. My /personal/ opinion on it is that the UI sucks horribly, but you can have fun with the results.
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Great News from Curious Labs! Watch Our Website in the Next Few Days for an Exciting New Product Announcement! I found this in my email. I sure hope this is what I think it is!