I just tried to order the face shaper script from bushi, he's using paypal, they just charged me 1.95 for the privilidge of ordering the script then wouldn't let me finish the order till I get my next credit card statement which is a month away. Paypal sucks big time!!!

yep. that's why i don't use it any more... not that it maked them sad ;)

Well - the secret is "security". You must understand why credit institutes doing that ... finally it's for your own security - or do you want to have another person accessing your bank accounts ??

I agree that the $1.95 is a rip-off, but are you sure that you can't pay? As far as I know you are just limited to a total of $1000 by credit card until you enter the confirmation code. If the script is cheaper (and I actually hope it is... :-) you should be able to do it.

Nope, you can't do anything until you enter the confirmation code. I signed up for PayPal a few weeks ago and ended up in the same situation. However, if you can access your credit card statement online, you will get the confirmation code from there before your statement appears in the mail. It took me three days before the $1.95 appeared online. I'm with Schlabber here, this is for our security. It just happens the first time you use your new account. And $1.95 is not such a high price to pay for the possibility to instantly send money worldwide. Contact your bank or local Western Union agent and ask how much they will charge you for that service... And they will do it every time you do a transaction.

I've given up on it too. First it wouldn't accept my password which I know is correct, and all attempts to create a new account with a different email account finally ends with "we are experiencing techinical difficulty". This, for DAYs while I've been trying to order something from PhilC so I'm resorting to the ancient but working Money Order... : ) What was most annoying was that they leave no real method of contacting them. You have to use canned subjects and then you can't leave comments - only that you have a question concerning one of their subjects and presumably you'll get a canned response/solution. That really sucks in 2002... and not a bloody phone number anywhere there. So as they don't want to hear from me... they shan't anymore. And I do feel good about that! : )

Ron, the advantage with PayPal is that you can send money to an individual that is not a "business" and therefore has no possibility to accept your credit card. I agree, credit card is the best thing when paying. But when sending money to another individual in another part of the world you have limited choices: - Bank transfer (Costly and slow) - Western Union (Costly) - PayPal (Free after you paid the initial $1.95 fee) I know which method I prefer if credit card is not the option.

I have just phoned the PayPal help desk to check up on this point. They suggested that if you can access your credit card account on line (and most have that option) you can find the security info required as soon as the charge hits your account. Yes there is a one off $1.95 sign up fee because credit cards charge a fee for each transaction. When purchasing goods this charge is born by the seller. If you had opted to sign up and give your bank account details then PayPal would have performed their security checks by depositing money into your account so its something of a swings and roundabouts situation.

I use PayPal exclusively on my site because I do not want to support the costs of maintaining a credit card merchant account. These are fine when things go well but it only takes one or two folks to use stolen cards and for you to incur the charge back for this to hurt big time. Anyone who is being brokered through the Renderosity store will know what I mean. These charges have to go somewhere, my pocket or your's?

I also use PayPal because I am continually impressed by their level of support. When I phoned them this morning (08:00 EDT) they responded within six rings with an honest to goodness live human being not a phone menu. I got that number from their web site, yes you may have to look for it and I've not double checked its location this morning. If you need it just email or message me.

I belong to palPal, not to buy, but to be paid, for art work a woman sells for me.. I then Have it transfered to my credit union.account. Yes theres even fees to that.

Weird. I just renewed one of my memberships (Traveler's Props Club, I think it was) via PayPal, and I had no problems at all. It was immediately upgraded for another year. I've bought things through eBay with PayPal, too, for a couple of years now, and I've never had a problem with them. Melanie

I totally agree with Phil, if you have gone through a little what we go through, maybe you would see why the tightness on their sites Sharen

looks like I'll have to wait for now, I'm just not very patient, I'll give it a couple of days then see if I can get the number off my statement. I agree tho if it's for security reasons then it's a good idea.

Pay Pal has worked great for me... Hi Phil! My first paypal purchase was at your site... I get paid through paypal... and I buy stuff through paypal... works great for me! How many "Poser" stores have paypal... Phil C RuntimeDNA Sams3d... who else?

Listen C1rcle, if you are really in a hurry, can you contact the vender, sometimes they will make a special effort to get you what you want by other means of payment. I know we do. Give it a try, can't hurt. Sharen

I've had good luck buying through Paypal, but not selling. I don't wish to "verify" by giving them access to my bank account, I've been burned (for several THOUSAND dollars) by a traditional merchant account company once before by doing that. And they were the "trustworthy, established, most reputable" one. So my policy is, no company, for any reason, gets my bank account number. My problem with them is: why can't they send me a check instead of having to deposit? So...I only use Paypal to get paid for ebay auctions, then I spend the money in other Paypal-only transactions. Which sucks because I really thought their shopping cart feature was nice, and I'd like to use their "virtual credit card" to buy stuff here at the Marketplace. But they don't need, and won't get, access to my bank account, no matter how reliable, established, or trustworthy they are. That having been said, my experience with them has been mostly good.

I added PayPal to my site a few months back and am very happy with it. Yes, they charge a service fee for every transaction, but it is significantly lower than what VISA or Mastercard would charge. They provide HTML code for creating a "shopping cart" and "checkout" for the customer to purchase items. And since the actual transaction takes place on their server, I don't have to worry about making a "secure browser connection". (Yes, I could probably figure out the code to do all of this myself, but I would rather work on the layout of the site than the transaction-logic.) But, the best part is that PayPal handles the payment part- I don't have to have a merchant account with a bank or each credit card. PayPal accepts debit cards, credit cards, etc., and they have a well-known name. (Remember, some people may be wary about purchasing from "unknown" sites.) --John

In the past few days i have purchased several items with paypal and have not had any problems i bought the deluxe hero pack by Sturk from beyondbent i bought a subscription to the props club at morph world and travlers cd from bbay yes i have to wait 3 days for money to transfer from my bank to my paypal account but i plan ahead and look to see what other people think about a product before i buy it so it all works out fine for me

I have never been charged a service charge for buying anything with paypals. They gave me $10 to sign up.

PayPal will actually give you 1% back on your purchases if you're under some sort of plan of theirs, premiere business member or something to that effect. But they -always- charged for you to accept money. Seriously though, it isn't bad at all. Considering that you save about 300$ that would otherwise be spent setting up a merchant account elsewhere. There is a lot of cynicism about PayPal out there - some with good reason, but I personally have never had any troubles with it, and it has never ever given me even the slightest problem.

Hmm... I think there's a difference between using a bank account and a credit card for the payment - right? By chance, I have signed up with Paypal just a couple of weeks ago, and transfered money by credit card 5 minutes later - it worked! They did it! Maybe they only block money transferred by an account? Otherwise the new restrictions were introduced within very few weeks recently. The only restriction was a total limit of (I think $1000) - when you payed $20 by credit card, you've been told that you are limited to $980, etc. etc. That limit went away after entering the verification code.

I joined PayPal about two years ago. I don't remember having to pay a $1.98 one-time fee. In fact, they gave me $5. I've used them for both buying and selling and have never had trouble.

Couple of years ago, PayPal's site was hacked and had 140,000 customer credit card numbers stolen. Nuf sed...

Thanks for that Norbert, I had my card number hacked a couple of years ago, luckily there was hardly any money in the account at the time and the bank stopped all the purchases, I'll just wait for my statement and see what happens, I may have been a bit hasty earlier, paypal do actually do a good job and I should be more diplomatic in my posts, I mean if it wasn't for them and other companies like them I'd be stuck with just the standard stuff that comes with poser and freebies. Large portion of humble pie please :) Rob

c1rcle - Drop me a line at: bushi@velocitus.net I'm certain that we can arrange something that will get you the script sooner then next month. bushi

LOL Rob, I just got done eatting some of that, not to bad, little bitter....don't feel bad Rob, always good to be cautious when it comes your finances. Sharen

I really do feel bad now, my first post looked like I was blaming bushi for my own impatience, Ive emailed an apology to bushi, the last thing I want to do is annoy people which I seem to do far too often. Rob

Things happen, and I am sure bushi understands.....when ever I see a post that looks like the people are going to blow....you always give others time to calm down....and never hold it against them...we are emotional humans that sometimes need to vent then recoupe, you are no different then me, except I have a punching bag right next to my desk.....really I do....and Mike and I use that.....you did good Rob, you vented then you thought and now you are okay. Sharen

No offence taken at all Rob, really. I just wanted to get the script to you even if you where having problems with PayPal. PayPal has some odd policies and their global coverage is somewhat spotty so I'm amiable to taking other routes to get the script to folks that want it. BTW got the e-mail.

I'm relieved :) I think I should take up drinking or smoking they might calm me down a bit... no wait a minute they cost money, money I need to feed my poser addiction. Thanks one and all for helping me see the light. Rob

I also agree with Phil and would like to add that these fees from PayPal are very minimal compared to a MERCHANT ACCOUNT.

MERCHANT ACCOUNTS vs. PAYPAL:In order to accept credit card payments over the internet, you MUST HAVE a merchant account. In order to have a merchant account, you must be a licensed business. Then, because you are a business, (and Im using our company as an example) they charged us a minimum monthly fee of $37- for our merchant account to handle credit card transactions (in our case the account was with Card Services International, but WFB about the same amt.) Then, there is a fee for every electronically generated transaction. This fee goes to the company handling your secured internet gateway, (in our case this was Linkpoint, who is now out of business BTW.) On top of that, every time someone makes a credit card charge, a percentage of your sale goes to the credit card companies: (anywhere from 3% to 6% of the total sale) to Visa, MC, AX, etc.

I do understand your concerns, but as Phil said, their precautions are for YOUR security, and the fees really are minimal. There was a HUGE litigation between PayPal and the banks. The banks were furious that PayPal was able to conduct business without having to deal with all the bureaucratic nonsense that banks have to deal with. This lowers PayPals operating cost, hence the ability to charge lower fees, which consequently takes a BIG CHUNK of busine$$ away from the banks. PayPal won the lawsuit for one simple reason, THEY ARE NOT A BANK! The entire concept of PayPal is to electronically generate funds instantly, without having any actual exchange of paper or legal tender. Take it from someone who has dealt with, and been reamed by merchant account banking, PayPal is a beautiful thing!

Sorry that this is a bit lengthy. I just thought it might give those who are Anti-PayPal, a little bit different perspective.

Cheers! Pam

It's a pain to start, but once it's setup it's cool! I love it!

Attached Link: http://www.techtv.com/cybercrime/internetfraud/story/0,23008,3370214,00.html

Hope some of you find this as interesting as I do. This is from an article on TechTV's Cybercrime pages titled "Just Whose Pal Is PayPal?" dated May 7 (Click the link for full text); "Last year, PayPal had a backlog of more than 100,000 unanswered complaints, according to the Better Business Bureau. The backlog forced the Better Business Bureau to pull its seal of approval from PayPal. PayPal claims that many of these problems are caused by customers confused about exactly what kind of service PayPal is and how it works." Later in the article it says; "Of course, we couldn't easily find PayPal's phone number anywhere on the company's site. When we logged in under a "Premier" account, however, the phone number was located two Web pages deep. We had to click on "About Us" (at the bottom of the page) and then click on "Contact Us" (on the left-hand navigation bar). But you don't have to be a "Premiere" member and click through all those pages. We'll make it easy on you. Here's the number: 1-888-221-1161. This article is based on original reporting by "CyberCrime" freelance segment producer Lisa Huffman." I'd encourage anyone interested to either catch the actual Cybercrime episode that covers this (airing numerous times this week thru the 13th), or read the entire article at the link. I was leery about dealing thru Paypal after recieving notice that a popular Subscription News site where I was a member was going belly-up (bankrupt) because PayPal had sent them a vague Email about some irregularities and then frozen all payments to them followed by no contact or response to their (the site's) queries to them (PayPal) for days at a time. The site eventually pulled thru but no longer accepts PayPal. Another concern I had was the none of the PayPal payment pages I visited displayed the IE padlock symbol of a secured web page. I was later assured (by a vendor, PayPal never responded to me EMail) that this was due to the page displaying the vendor's logo, which was an "unsecured element" from the vendor's site (how tough would it be for PayPal to host their customer's Logo's on a secure server as a courtesy to eliminate this problem, anyway? Too much trouble for PayPal to consider, it seems). This being said, I must add that I have since then used PayPal a few times to complete several "must have" purchases from SAMS3D, PhilC, and others, and apart from a distaste for the wheedling Emails reminding me I wouldn't be eligable for their WHoop-De-Diddley-Do "Verified Status" unless I provide my checking account information (I prefer to live with the $1000.00 limit rather than do so), I haven't personally suffered any losses from the transactions. Jerry B leather-guy

You don't need to give your account info to get rid of the $1000 limit - you only need to give the "$1.95" code. I think this part is fair - when they charge you the $1.95, they give you a random code on the bill, and if you type in this code they have proof that the card belongs to you and the bill gets paid. If the card was stolen, then the legal owner wouldn't register the code.

I like PayPal. I'd avoided it for years until a member here sent some money for a software package I'd mailed to him. Now that the account is established, it is remarkably fast to use, and is great for individuals who want to transfer funds to other individuals. A few years back, a kid in Spain bought a complete mint set of Antiquities Magic cards from me. He had to use Western Union, and I had to find one of their offices. It cost him an extra $30 or so (I tucked a few extra cards in the box to mitigate that) and about 3-4 days of emailing to get set up. I had to drive down and pick up the money in cash and then go to the bank. What a hassle! I just won a couple things at auction, and within a few minutes of reading the notification, the money was transferred. Slick. Yes, there is a risk. But walking through a parking lot with a few hundred dollars in the purse is risky, too. Carolly

I've never had a bad experience with PayPal, but they are one of those companies many people either love or hate, there's even a "www.paypalsucks.com" website. I've dug around quite a bit and they seem to be the cheapest way for an individual or small company to accept credit cards, but I wouldn't use them as a merchant simply because I think it'd turn some of my customers off.

Attached Link: http://www.paypalwarning.com/

Credit card purchasing provides you with vastly superior protection over any other type of money transfer. I'd always recommend making a regular credit card purchase over pay pay if that option is available.

Starmkr, PayPal doesn't charge the buyer a fee. I've never sold anything through them, but from what I understand, it's the seller who gets charged a fee, not the buyer. I've bought numerous things with PayPal and have never been charged a fee. Melanie

I've never had the slightest problem with PayPal-- in fact when there was a duplicate pay on one bill, they gave me every assistance to clear it up and I was refunded promptly. I got into PayPal when I was at EBay because you can pay anyone almost everywhere-- Belgium is a little tough and Spain is impossible-- in one simple manner. Every other method cost tons more money and much more time. I went with the bank account because it was the simplest and they haven't emptied my account yet, probably because I can do that much more efficiently than they can. I've read all the problems at the anti-PayPal sites, they haven't happened to me, or anyone I've talked to, in fact, PayPal is so easy for me, I will offer to pay merchant costs to reluctant merchants so I can use it. Mind you, I am disabled so a trip to the Bank and the Post Office to send a money order is a two day trip. And that's on a good day. I have never used credit cards alone on PayPal, I used one today, but I'm a long time customer now. No verification number needed. I can sympathise with frustrating procedures though. I have no patience and don't like to wait. Emily

I think a comparision between PayPal and a credit card transaction is not very fair. In a credit card transaction you have the entire bank system with all its security and legal back up behind you, both as a merchant and a customer. And you pay for it. PayPal is no more sophisticated than handling cash between individuals. Easy, cheap and fast, but with the obvious risk of the other party being less honest than you are. No safety net is provided, but you don't pay for one either. Both systems have their pros and cons, and averyone should be aware of them before making their choice.

In my country (Sweden), it is against the law to close a deal with that kind of "passive" consent from the customer (when they say "we will subscribe you if you don't tell us not to). Rons case would have ended up as a police matter, which probably would have speeded up the magazine company's handling of the matter...

I have to say that Paypal has always done right by me and after one particular incident of a non shipping business, they came through bigtime, I had a $45 purchase on 'wait' for about 2 months after the 9-11 disaster, I had contacted the company, they gave me some excuses about a distributor being in NY and then they stopped replying to my email. I contacted Paypal with a complaint and even though it was after the 45 day complaint period, they not only looked into it but gave me my money back and deducted it from the non-shipper's account. Granted I had to wait for the processing and such. There are always chances of extinuating circumstances that they'd want to hear both sides, but generally Paypal leans towards the buyer being the one in the right. This being a huge plus if you're buying things, sort of an insureance if you are purchasing something. Make sure that the person your purchasing from is a verified member, and if you don't get the product, Paypal has their address and atleast one form of monitary control to nail them on. As to the mail version of slammers, I think this falls under the catagory of 'mail fraud'. Talk to the Postal Service if you are in the US. It's a federal offense, same as chail letters, pyramid schemes and the like. Lilfox

So perhaps the thing to do is get your Paypal account set up NOW, so that some time in the future, when you want to pay IMMEDIATELY, you can.