Attached Link: http://www.poserexotica.com

Come on in, take a look around, enjoy the downloads and galleries and of course my online store discounts.

...your browser does not support inline frames ! How many people are right now standing before your site- door, frustrated about your "nice" makeover ??? :O))))

WOW, looks great....

Hmmm... Looks nice, but does Mike Oldfield (or his record company) know that you are using his Tubular Bells as intro music? I don't mind, but they might... Record companies are not known to be kind when they find unauthorized use of their music ;-)

Webvogel: I did not design the site. I know nothing about inline frames. I'll have my web designer look into it and see what she can do. Kelderek: Again, I did not design the new site. I'm sure my designer has permission to use the music as designing websites is her business. I'm sure she knows all the ins & outs of what can & cannot be used. If not, it will be changed. Moenchen: Thanks!

I am the web designer 99% of peope's browsers can view inline frames, as a web designer it is impossible to code and design for every browser out there..I DO NOT code for netscape at all, only 5% of surfers use netscape these days anyway and almost all designers do not code for every type of browser, as it would cost far too much for the client........All the new ones can see and view inline frames in 2 months my own site has had 14,000 visitors and not one person has been unable to view my inline frames..with the exception of 2 who viewed in netscape Yes the midi I used is ALLOWED, it is a version that is provided for use on peoples web pages..as long as it is not SOLD it is ok....the Midi by Mike Oldfield is on thousands of sites.every single WAV or midi on the net has a copyright, therefore I am careful where I download things from....It is not the webpage who gets into trouble if a record company does not want the music in midi form, it is the creator of the midi..Therefore sometimes you have to just do what u feel is best.... Thank You

Thanks for clearing that up Tahani. Pam

WOW....... That is the most elegant Poser site I've ever visited. The galleries are beautifully designed, easy to navigate and full of gorgeous renderings. You have downloaded many of the same props that I have, but then lit and utilized them in ways that are beyond me....I learned something about lighting and composition and the use of props in every gallery. From a Newbie, sincere thanks!

Patricia: Tahani from Gulf Mystery Designs did a spectacular job designing the site. Thank you so much for your kind comments on my gallery images. It's always nice to hear when someone appreciates your work. :)

...another of your "5%" here who can't get in.

Well, Gulfmystery, I don't agree with your description of who will get in trouble in a copyright fight with the copyright holder of a musical piece. It's the music as such that is copyrighted by the publisher of that piece. If someone makes a midi of copyrighted music, it's your problem if you use it publicly on a web page. The "midi maker" will of course get in trouble as well. The reason I reacted is that Tubular Bells is regarded as the musical piece in modern history that is the victim of the largest number of copyright abuses, probably due to the fact that it's a widely known and quite catchy tune. I'm not sure of the present copyright status of it, though. I'm not blaming you, I just want to keep you out of trouble. The fact that someone makes a midi of the tune and makes it avalaible free for download does not necessarily mean that the copyright holder of the piece agrees to it... And it's your responsibility to watch your back if you use it. Or rather: it's the responsibilty of the owner of the web site where the midi is played...

BTW, gulfmystery, the site looks GREAT! Good job! :-))

Super site, and I found an acoustic guitar,(been looking for one for ages) thanks so much.

Yup, here's another 5% who can't get in..... :] FishNose

It is not the webpage who gets into trouble if a record company does not want the music in midi form, it is the creator of the midi...<<< If you check with any copyright attorney, they will tell you that this is incorrect. If someone scans a photograph out of a magazine and you place it on your website, who do you think the first lawsuit will filed against, you or the person who scanned it? Protect yourself, if you did not create the music or you do not have a signed agreement allowing its use, don't use it. Otherwise, you are violating copyright. Take care and be well. casamerica

Geat looking intro...but I guess I'm in the 5% who won't see the inside too...:) But, what the hey...just a lowly Netscape user anyway, I'm surprised all the other site designers even bother with us.... Beav (tongue in cheek)

Well thank you for excluding us NS users. I was about to go there until now. This is one of my pet peeves because there is NO!!!!! need to format exclusively for one browser type. There are plenty of scripts and codings out there that will allow both ie and ns view sites. If I!!! can design my site to be viewable by all then so can everyone else. Just use WWW Consortium HTML Standands for goodness sakes. Stop pandering to Microsofts' ego by using their exclusive coding. There is NO need for it. GEEZ

Well, as a site designer myself I whole heartedly disagree with your statements. Its not that difficult to design sites to maximize browser accessibility. Content doesn't have to be "identical", it just has to be accessible. Since Pam is selling items from her site, IMHO maximum accessibility is an important factor. Moreover, more than 5% of people still use Netscape4. My own sites register closer to 20% Netscape 4 usage...heck 5% are using WebTV! While its true that each site will have different usage patterns, making it inaccessible to people with a certain browser is sure to skew your statistics against them. Even if it was 5% its clearly not possible for 99% of people to be able to view iframes if 5% of them have browsers that can't render them. And what does that 5% represent? If you have 20000 people try to visit your site, that would be 1000 potential customers you've just blown off. Hey, feel free to redirect those customers to me...I'm more than happy to take their money if you don't want it! In any event, IMHO your use of inline frames in this instance is totally unnecessary and not efficient. You are loading a new URL for each link, so you are not taking advantage of an other wise static page with changing content. Constaining the content to a smaller iframe merely means I am forced to see less of it at one time than my screen resolution would otherwise allow. It seems to me you have simply succeeded in making me scroll twice instead of once...first the main window to center the frame, then the second window to be able to read the content. If the content was in the body of the page itself, I would only have to scroll once and the amount of content I could see at one time would be greater. But that's just my opinion and you are more than welcome to design your web sites any way you please. :)

As far as browsers go, yes, Internet Explorer is by far what the majority of web surfers use now, and if you weren't using an ancient version of netscape (anything under 6) than really, you can't blame the designer for using the available technology. Netscape 6 + has support for inline frames, and it has been around for well over a year.

Thankyou ZEROBASE.. I design what my client wants, as for you SCIFGUY you may be a designer but all designers design different, there was a reason I DID NOT USE STATIC INLINE FRAMES... I make a lot of sites, get tons of referrals all clients are happy and I make a lot of money..All my sites have won the Golden Web award..and I opt to use inline frames for art sites such as Pams, because there is nothing worse than sitting all day to wait for a site to load which happens a lot with 3D sites..I KNOW, I am also an art agent for a number of RENDS artists, I have turned aside some as I could not view their work unless I sat all night in front of the comp waiting for their badly designed site to load the art.which is a shame as some could do with the promotion and money I make for them..I live in UAE but my clients are worldwide..If my work was not good why do I work 18 hour days and make buckets of money...My own site uses inlines I sell my work from my site and get sales above $300 everyday just for websets, so If I thought it was causing me to loose clients I would get rid of the frames..2% of the 47,000 visitors in past 6 months to my site used netscape and almost all had the new version...Even Web Tv can view my inlines as many are clients of mine.. This is my last comment on this subject..sorry those that can not view pams site, maybe when u update ur browser u will be able to view it, I update mine regularly.. I am such a lover of art and it saddens me to notice here at REND how many of you nit pick, the first site I designed for an artist here got nitpicks about his pop up ads in his guest book from bravenet, HOW PATHETIC....I am glad I have 10 super rend artists under my wing who nitpik about nothing.Ten of RENDS best, who I work like a dog for to make them some money and bring in some recognition for their art work. If its not nitpicking about someones web site its nitpicking about someones 3D post...and I notice most that nitpick should take a damn good look at their own sites and art before making any comments..You cant please everyone, some like frames, some dont, some like music some dont, some like boring sites some like artistic ones, u do what the client wants thats the important thing...

I wasn't "nitpicking", I simply stated my opinion about this particular design and your assertions regarding cross browser compatibility issues. Expressing opinions is what people do in forums...no need to get in a snit over it. BTW: I really don't care how much money you make, its not relevant to the discussion. Again, you are more than welcome to design web sites any way you please.

As the client in this instance, I am perfectly thrilled with the design of the site. I think Tahani (Gulf Mystery Design)is a brilliant designer and am honored to have her as my agent and website designer. Perhaps those of you who are having troubles can update your netscape browser to version 6 as Zerobase suggested.

There might be excellent reasons not to upgrade browsers. NS 6 is pretty resource intensive, and with all of the security problems, who can blame anyone for not using IE(any ol' version) I think it is a bit unfair to ask your viewers to upgrade their browsers. However, for those who are looking for an alternative, the current Mozilla (mozilla.org) handled the site just fine (and it's free, woo hoo) eric

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of sorts here. This site is my own personal website. Its primary purpose is to showcase my gallery and offer some free downloads. The store is a relatively small part of the site. My entire gallery, store and some downloads can all be accessed right here at Renderosity. Simply go to my homepage and there you have it. I spend a lot of money to maintain this site for my own personal pleasure and don't expect a dime in return. I apologize for those who can't access it. I am in no way trying to be "unfair" to anyone.

Hey....I was just kiddin'!!!...LOL If I wanna see the rest of it, I'll just open the new IE(have both)...but I like the old Netscape for some things because of some of the features....you know, old dog, etc... But the opening looks cool as hell. Don't get all bent though...like was said..it IS a forum. And people talk. The announcement and link was appreciated....:) Beav

Your sitedesign is wonderful. I've tested with IE6, Netscape 6.2 and Opera 6 and everything works fine. Netscape 4 is old browser that does not even support CSS and other webstandards. Netscape 6.2 is not resource intensive and I found no security problems. Maybe this was an issue with the first release of N6 but not with the final version. And updating won't hurt anybody.

Thanks for the update on the browsers Puntomaus.

Hi Folks! In this era of global audiences and global markets 5% of anything is a helluva lot of people. I design web sites too. And I learned the hard way that there is still a significant number of people out in cyberspace who access the Web with old browsers and 13" monitors. I'm not trying to be contentious here, Exotica, to you or your web designer. Just be aware that if you ever intend to make your site commercial, a lot of those Netscape nitpickers are going to take their business elsewhere. Peter (Dr Zik)

Exotica, I didn't mean to direct my comments about leaving out NS users to you. I just don't like seeing statements similar to the one above where web designers dismiss netscape users (or any other non-MS browser). Things are always changing, and while IE is by far the dominant browser today, there is the possibility that it could be very different in a year or two (it wasn't that long ago when Netscape was the predominant browser in use.) Puntomaus, I was referring to IE security problems. There have been weekly bug fixes for IE, most of which could be exploited similarly to the recent KLEZ (which is actually exploiting an older IE vulnerability). I can't blame anyone for avoiding IE like the plague. Also, there is the fact that there are a lot of old computers still running windows (or Mac OS) all of which are perfectly reasonable browsing machines. If you have ever tried to run any of the recent browsers on an old 266 Mhz machine, you will know why upgrading is not necessarily an option. Even on my wife's 350Mhz, most of them are unpleasant to use (haven't tried NS6.2, though, it might be a little more compact than 6.1). eric PS. Exotica, very nice gallery you have there.

Eric, I thought you was talking about Netscape regarding the security problems. Agree about IE - but have a firewall and a virus scanner so I think I am rather safe. I had the first release of N6 too and it was a real pain but 6.2 is really good and fast. Oh, and before I forget it: you can't navigate the Marketplace over here with Opera. SCNR ;-)

Dear gulfmystery, i do not know where you live but 80% of all people wich are known to me in germany use netscape. Maybe the visitors for this site from germany are only 5%, but how much people are this 5% you do not care for? I think it`s a wonderful day to think different :O))) Greetings, Webvogel

Look I design all types of sites OK, sometimes I need and my clients want inline frames, OK so netscape cant use them EVEN YAHOO uses inline frames... I dont code for netscape if a client wants inline frames..thousands of sites use inline frames PLEASE ALL OF U GET A LIFE and go out and harrass the thousands of inline frame sites out there on the net... Netscape cant view inline frames or most of the DHTML and java effects, why should I tell a client they cant have what they want because a few people use netscape....Its like telling 3D artists who like to render fairies to go and start rendering worldwar two tanks. bcause some people get sick when they see a fairy... MOST designers do not code for netscape for one reason, it means their client can not have the site they want..I do my job and design to my clients needs they are FULLY aware that if they opt for inline frames that old netscape cant view them..No one has been bothered... Why should someone not have inline frames because of netscape WHAT THE HELL were they designed for and why do so many companies including major ones use them.... That is the only thing I use in web design that is not compatible for NETSCAPE apart from certain sites who request java effects, not all clients want them but most do.. I live in UAE and YES I have many germany people visit my site, use my work and my tubes etc, all have a browser they can view inline frames..This whole squibble is over because pams site uses a frame...SORRY but otherwise her site would have taken forever to load and THIS is what people hate and why MOST artists stay unknown..because people get sick of waiting for art to show up..One very well known artist told me that his site increased in visitors once he loaded all his work into frames and cut download time in half, my own site has increased also because people love the easy navigation and speed of download and thats why ALL my sites win the Golden Web Award. I have nothing against Netscape at all, most of my designs are compatible I do search out codes to use for all browsers, however with inline frames only the most recent Netscape can view them..And I am not telling my client they cant have them if they are not bothered themselves about broswer compatability,,, I guess u have not been around the thousands of web and graphic design sites and seen most have a sign at the top saying they dont code for netscape...its how most feel, only because in design we are limited as to what we can do.. If anyone has a code for inline frames that allll netscape browsers can view please send it to me..I have searched far and wide and not found one to date. If I had found one I would of course use it

Hi Webvogel, very interesting! All the people that I know over here in germany use IE or Opera and no one uses Netscape 4. LOL Please speak only for yourself and not for all the others, ok? @gulfmystery : you did a great job with this site and everything works fine. The site works great with IE, Netscape 6 and Opera 6 so I don't see a reason for someone to complain. Friederike

Oh, hab ich noch vergessen: typisch deutsch das Gene wieder :-P

My two cents (and I'm sure many will think that that's all it's worth)- I don't use IE because of the well documented and never ending security flaws (and I run up-to-date virus checkers, trojan horse cjheckers and a firewall). I don't use Netscape 6.2 because it crashed and locked up more often than not. Netscape 4.78 is smooth sailing for me, and I don't see any reason to abandon it for now. I'm sure I'm not the only one, so there ARE people who will be denied the ability to view your site and purchase your products. To me it's no different than if a TV network told me I have to get a new television in order to view their programs. Untill I'm faced with not being able to view a majority of available TV programs, I would not see fit to go get a new TV just to view some.

Why in the hell should I update my browser from NS to IE when NS is perfectly HTML compatible. This is the reason why you see only 5% of ns users in your stats: 1: People first learn on ie because ic comes with their computer and do not realise that there is something better out there to use. 2: Us NS users stick together. If one of us come across a site that we can't view, we tell them and they tell other ns users and we all stay away. I am using ns 6 now that I have a more powerful machine and it took me 6 years to scrimp and save to be able to get it. Do you even realise what it is like to be stuck with an out of date computer that can't view sites because it just doesn't have the power to run the latest browser without crashing???? Do not blame people for not updating. They may not be able to afford to update. I was and still am one of them. I now have to start scrimping and saving for another 6 years. My new computer is already out of date. I think it is wrong to exclude just because of that and/or the fact they use ns. It is the majority of the U.S. that uses IE. The majority of non U.S. people use NS or other. I will never use ie because since using ns I have NEVER suffered a virus on my computer or any other security problem. That is how good the security is for ns AND I have never had to have bug fixes for it. EVER. Plus, once I make ns my default browser, ie gets all upset and seizes my computer so ie is no longer viable for me. Exotica, my comments are not directed at you. I love to visit sites that have been done up. Gulfmystery, my comments are directed at ALL ie exclusive disigners. The current look to my site (I just uploaded it last month) was designed with psp and NS Composer with minor tweaking in CuteHTML. It uses 3 or 4 javascripts that all work in ns and ie from v4 up. Except for one script and it works in the v4s but not the v6 browsers. Go figure lol I just find it all a poor excuse. There are more ns users than you realise. We just look out for each other. I'm sorry you think I/we are pathetic. I am not nitpicking. This is a legitimate problem regardless of your opinion on the subject. Bill Gates has the same opinion as you about it, does that make him right? Retorical question and ignore his wealth.

BelleMorte U obviously did not understand my last post. I have nothing against Netscape users the reason I do not code for netscape is because it would mean I have to refuse my clients the type of site they ask from me..I AM A BUSINESS not doing this as a hobby....Basically the only thing I use which is not for netscape is inline frames..REMEMBER I AM CONTROLLED BY MY CLIENTS DESIRES, NEEDS AND REQUESTS... More and more clients ask for inline frames even for custom web sets they ask for a frame to be included..I just designed a site with inline for a well known US author, I would have lost her business and friendship If I refused to let her have the site she wanted...I dont know of any professional design company who would refuse to design unless compatable with all browsers, so far as I know there is no code for old netscape to view inlines... However what u all seem to forget is the majority of sites I design do not use inline therefore are viewable by all...so you cant really say I am against netscape, I just design what my client wants If I told u that u have to create art a way u do not like working in and u cant do this and that, I dont think u would be very happy, so how do u think my clients would feel if refused to design the site they wanted...They know about the netscape problem when they request inline frames and if they dont care then they continue with the design they ASK ME TO MAKE FOR THEM.. Pam loves her site, it was made for HER and for HER enjoyment..those that can not enter can view her work and puchase her products here at REND as they have always been here..If she feels the frames are a problem she will of course request a no frames version as well...so this is just another GET ON UR HORSE THING HERE AT REND..Let my clients request from me the site they want..I am not going to SAY NO TO THEM and make them unhappy and disatisfied..YOU FORGET, I DESIGN HOW THEY WANT as do all web designers we are CONTROLLED BY OUR CLIENTS..If I let u run my business for one month u would ruin it with that mentality, basically your telling people u cant have inline frames, THAT IS NOT FAIR IS IT, IF THEY WANT THEM and a large percentage of my clients do ask for them..If u were at the helm, u would be refusing my clients left right and center?? Oh and my stats show 1.024% netscape users, all entered my flash entrance, out of 47,000 since december I dont think thats much do u..if it reaches 3% I will of course add a no frames version and that is what I advice all clients who ask for inline frames, to check their stats often and if they see a certain percentage of netscape users entering the index page which does not have frames on it, they should consider adding a no frames version..Guess Im not anti netscape afterall..

I did understand and I will apologise because I have a tendency to word things badly. I am sorry.

The majority of non U.S. people use NS or other. I don*t know who told you that but Netscape isn't very popular anymore over here (germany). There is even an online campaign going on called Webdesigner against Netscape (WAN) that adresses all the problems the old Netscape 4 has with webstandards. N6 doesn't have this problems and is the far better browser. Users over here prefere IE or Opera but not Netscape.

Its Ok BelleMorte, I just get peed down at REND sometimes at the hackle u get over anything...Its hard being a web designer its not an easy job, I do the best I can to keep all happy.. Im not some wicked old witch who has a hate campaign against netscape, I dont even think about browsers when a client wants something I just make it, they know of the probs so if they dont care then let them have what they want...OH and I met u in the psp forum last month, I was the one who finally managed to scan her cat..and got a good under belly shot with paw included by putting roast chicken on the scanner to entice him onto it :)

Darn gulf mystery...how many posts ago was it that you were done speaking on the matter??...LOL Hey....your site looks great. Those who need something else to see it'll go get it if they want. The only thing obvious is that no one here really knows what's most popular where, etc....:) I WAS kinda interested in the comment though from Puntomaus about NS6 vs 6.2. I went back to the old NS because version 6 was really a bitch for me too. Lockin' up, etc...you say NS 6.2 is a lot better?? If so, I better check it out. And thanks for the info. BTW..the reason I stopped using IE was everytime I opened it, the damn predatory thing reconfigured all my viewer and editor file associations, and I got tired of resetting them. Again..your site is one of the neatest I've seen, so if we learn not to nitpic, you can grow a skin, and we can all be friends again, ok?....:) Beav

Guess what we are going to make a no frames version, DONT U THINK WE ARE SO KIND lol I might even make one for my own site if I HAVE TIME then u can all come in and see my little fairies and things

I guess I nitpicked about the browser thing because I don't nitpick about images people have created. I think I was also having a bad day yesterday. I know that is no excuse.