O.K., good idea, poorly though out though. Lets either change the default to Commerical Use allowed or have the line come up blank until it is set one way or the other. With the current editor is a pain to change this, and why should we, 90 - 99% of the Freestuff must be ommerical-use-allowed. Let the people who put strings on their stuff go to the trouble of changing it. My stuff is never restricted that way.

And while we are at it, how about a line of text, too? Putting text in a 200 x 200 picture gets real tiresome.

99% of freestuff items are for non-commercial renders only. It wouldn't make sense to default to anything else.

I agree with JeffH. In my recollection, most of the Free Stuff is for non-commercial use. I'd hate like heck to go through all my Free Stuff again and change it.

And while we are at it, how about a line of text, too? Jim, the Notes field works now. The keyword search function even accesses it.

That's why free stuff isn't free. Bah! Non-commercial renders... I understand not being able to sell the mesh (duh), but I'll be d@mned if people should tell me what to do with my pictures. Jim, THANK YOU for your free stuff, and thanks to all who don't restrict. If you're going to restrict, please just sell your products, people. (Boy, I can see the flames being thrown at me already, LOL!)

" 99% of freestuff items are for non-commercial renders only. It wouldn't make sense to default to anything else." Sure, because you made that the default. How many actually say that in their read-me? Maybe it would just be easier to remove mine...

By the way, sorry if I sound really harsh, I'm just sick from ages of downloading free stuff and reading the file to find out it's worthless to me. I'm glad for the new system and I'm glad that my hard drive won't be so overburdened with useless crap now :)

Shaking head in all the items i have downloaded from rosity 99 percent IS for non commercial use only very little is for commercial use.

OFF TOPIC Hello to Jim Burton, I bought your high heel shoes set at DAZ3D very nicely done! And am thinking of buying one your supermodels, I have both Vina D and Victoria 2, but I love Vina D more. Is it possible to use your super Dina on Vina D I wonder? Alex

how about mister eifel tells people "you may make personal photos of the tower, but if you want to sell postcards with it or do anything else commercial with the images of it, contact me!"... :-/ bullsh!t... i'm also not sure if such statement is legaly correct at all. must check with my lawyer...

heyas; i have to agree with jeff, and (though it doesn't apply to MY stuff) the freestuff defaults. i think the majority of stuff is restricted-use, and i'm talking about stuff i've gotten and read, and not the new tags. also, with the 'it ain't okay for commercial stuff unless explicitly stated' rule, that means the commercial-ok minoroty has to explicitly state it. although putting the old stuff in a 'state of limbo' on that issue might have been nice. until people went in and edited. actually, what might be needed is a user-setting for their preferred defaults. or some kinda blanket 'change all my stuff' control. can't it be put in the artist page area or something?

Jim,Miss Tara, I do agree with you. the ownership of the mesh /texture is not questioned, the render belongs to whoever renders it. who gave someone the right to tell me what I can do with my own work? I sure didn't. and copyright laws do not respect limitations on use like that. the copyright only stops you from selling or giving away the mesh or texture, not something made with it. you own the rendered image, you own the copyright, you can legally do what you want with it, even if the person that made a mesh you used put non commercial only. I just spent hours going over copyright laws, and ain't no leg to stand on in court about non commercial limitations people are putting into free stuff.

not to beat a dead horse, simply because it appears the mind is already made up in this decision - but i agree with Mr Burton.. none of my things will have a restriction.. but it sure is a pain in the arse to go back and change it so people can use it however they want to.. however - if you want to put restrictions on things, shouldnt the "responsibility" be put on the person that really doesnt want to "completely" give away their free stuff? i say - default - commercial & non commercial

Back to it....I just wanted to say on the "line of text" idea that as much trouble as it may be, I really appreciate the people that put text in the thumbnail. I save the thumbnails with the file and it makes it easy to see exactly what it is and what it's not. BTW...I also appreciate the people that include a thumbnail in the .zip. Also...what you're saying about ownership sure makes sense to me. But I'd hate for it to deter anyone from sharing. Beav

The only items I've ever placed commercial restrictions on are things trademarked or copyrighted by the original creators, such as the Olympic medals or Yoda. If you want to suffer the full wrath of the LucasFilm Attorney Division, go ahead and try selling videos you've made of the little guy.

Little Dragon, if Lucas film even saw the item was available they would be upset. ~g~ unless it is licensed from them.

Yes, "Subject" is far more the matter, not the tool used. The Yoda character BELONGS to Geo. Lucas and company only. Alex

B!tch and moan, b!tch and moan. Look, I hate to break this to the whiners once again, but freebies are NOT an entitlement. They're a favor. If someone says "hey, I'll mow your lawn for you, but I can only do it on Wednesday" and you refuse to allow it to be done on Wednesday, what happens? You get your own butt out there and do it yourself, and you don't get to grab their lawnmower to do it either. Copyright infringement: copyright laws also protect against derivative works, and I can make a decent argument for an image prominately using a non-commercial freebie as a derivative work. But here's something else to consider: BREACH OF CONTRACT: The read-me file, if there is not another license included, is considered a license. By using any item, you are agreeing to abide by that license's terms, and that is a legal contract. Do you think you get to reverse engineer Microsoft Windows, mess around to make it "your own", and then sell that? Just try it; I'll enjoy watching the lawyers eat you for breakfast. You don't like it, then you don't use it. That is your only option. But hey, tell you what. As one of these jerks who wants a little input on how her hard work is used, I'll make it easy for you. I'll just put my "permission required" stuff somewhere it's appreciated. After all, I'd hate to make some ungrateful prick spend 12 seconds sending me an e-mail asking.

yo FyreSpiryt, thank you for the free conform things, much needed utils! grateful prick, (lol) Alex

I'm a staunch pro-commercial use freebie person. I mean, if its free, it should be free. Non-commercial use means only "half-free" - lol. I do agree that trademarked stuff, i.e. a particular superhero like Superman or what have you, should be for non-commercial use only, UNLESS DC Comics states specifically that you can sell a certain image of their character, etc. I don't download no-commercial use items, and if I do, and the readme doesn't allow for commercial use, it doesn't get installed and it is doomed to the recycle bin - unless it is stuff like Superman/Darth Vader, then it goes in my "No Commerce" foldr, for fun pictures.

shakes head, agrees with FyreSpirit and walks off wondering why the bloody hell anybody bothers with freebies anymore seeing as they're so hated just because people can't make their penny worth of bloody money from it. Frickin' ingrates Free doesn't mean free to say "screw you", it means you don't have to pass over money to download it. Ye gods. Sometimes I think a suggestion made a while ago would be a damned fine idea. Freebies should be available only in a restricted area, accessible by meeting two criteria and an invitation. Damn you lot sound like a bunch of ungrateful swine. Someone provides something you don't have to pay for to get hold of and all you can do is bitch because you can't make money with it? Fine. STAY AWAY from the freestuff areas then. DON'T download anything. Wow, there's a concept huh? You want commercial. Here.... http://www.renderosity.com/marketplace.ez Stay in that area. gimme gimme gimme.. I'm sick to death of it.

This sort of attitude doesn't exactly motivate free stuff providers, you know. You guys make it sound like everyone on this forum makes a living selling their artwork, and it's simply a waste of time downloading anything that cannot be used in commercial work. Free stuff is the life blood for the casual Poser user. "If you're going to restrict, please just sell your products, people." If you're the one going to make money on a commercial render and you can't use a free pair of Poser shoes because the creator says it can't be used in commercial renders, than YOU go buy some shoes that can be. Don't criticize someone for simply trying to share something for free. Just my thoughts as always. Take care. SnowS Hoping his non-commercial pictures are worth 1001 words.

I read a thread, recently, in the art theory forum...asking...if you don't create all that is used in your render...is it still art? most poser/bryce users feel that it is. i make most of my own stuff, anyway...so this was kind of a moot point. however, i do agree that posing, lighting, designing the overall composition IS an art form. now, this thread brings up that question once more. after all...if one creates a work of art, one should have the right to use it commercially, yes? so it would seem that those freestuff creators who deem their stuff free for download, only for non commercial renders, feel that the art created using them, as less than "art", as such. hummmm....unpleasant, that. sounds as if...were i to go to the trouble of making a render....let's say 4 or 5 of my own original charactors, textures, maybe even some of my own original clothing...and, then....i was to use this render as a poster for a club, or something...hummmm....if i happened to put in a vase, or a bar, or something i downloaded, as a background article...and, if the maker of that were to object to it being used commercially...i could get harassed???...by the maker of the free item...hey now...i think commercial exposure is good for everyone...this is just silly, and, demeaning to the folks who so gratefully DO use the free resources. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

please.. i definately did not intend to mean to be ungrateful.. nor do i think that anyone else posting in this thread was either.. i do believe this topic took a turn in a direction that none of us really intended it to take.. i only meant that i really thought to make it easier for the people that intend things to be 100% free, sounded like a nice idea... more of a "here.. this is easier for you" type of gesture.. i hope noone thought that i was pointing fingers and being ungrateful.. because i do not believe that is how this post was meant to turn out..

"Frickin' ingrates**" If my post inspired your disgust, then I apologize. "gimme gimme gimme.. I'm sick to death of it." I'm not complaining against those who provide free stuff, I'm glad they do, and they are generous for it. However, in my opinion, it is somewhat selfish, or at least anti-Capitalist to not allow for commercial use, I recently deleted my free stuff, except for one - but I have no problem with people using what I provided for free to use in their commercial work. That's why I provided it for free. In fact, one of the joys I have when I provide something for free is that people CAN use it for commercial renders and works. If someone wishes to make money off of their creation, then I agree, they should put it in the Marketplace/or specify the price in a Readme text included in the download. "Don't criticize someone for simply trying to share something for free." What people wish to do with their creations, it is their right, and they are certainly generous for giving it away for free, and taking the time to do it. However, because I plan to sell my artwork, please don't criticize because I pass over the download, I can't keep up with all the stuff I would download, in deciding what is allowed for commercial use, and what isn't. I don't want to violate anyone's copyrights/wishes, so I don't download it. Sometimes, if it is something I just HAVE to have, then I do download it, but put it in a NO COMMERCE folder, or just remember to not use it for commercial works.

Mr. Burton is a master of his craft. And, from what i see, a pretty astute business person. Think about it....how many folks, even the weekend hobbyist....would not WANT to create a render that they could sell, in one way or another? Maybe, I am just seeing this world through some rose colored glass...but, I think anyone who even dabbles in art...aspires to something more...recognition. Perhaps, to put in the readme...notes, whatever it is called in the new freestuff....if your render is used commercially, please give credit to the creator or ....whatever the heck you got free.... Guys....the folks reading this thread are your potential customers. To call people "ungrateful" because they want the right to dream of creating something "saleable", perhaps, using one of your freebies, as a PART of the composition....well, that is not good business sense. Because, gratitute aside....i know putting items up in freestuff is a good promotional. of course, you can do what you want...you made it. there are even some who put such restrictions on market items. Well, i see more and more folks are learning texturing, and, gassspppp...even modelling. i feel with enough restrictions, you guys can put yourselves right out of the ballgame in 6 months or a year.. fyrespryte....i DID download your joint parameter setter. however, i have a question....if i use it on some of my new line of clothing...that, gassspp...i may even release to THIS marketplace, cause i am growing lazy....nevermind...i know the answer...i won't use it. being grateful does not suit me. looked like a cool little proggie though ;*(

I personally have flip-flopped on this issue in the past. I have tried the "Email for permission" scheme, and after about a month of that I wanted people to stop emailing me, LOL. Now any freebies I do are free for commercial renders, because if someone can make a buck rendering an image with something of mine, more power to them. I made the item in the first place because it's fun for me, I really enjoy modeling and I like seeing people render my stuff. :) -Trav

It's amazing how people love to misinterpret the word "Free." The word "free" only means you don't pay a purchase price. It doesn't mean you own the item, and have permission to do anything you want with it. Free Stuff is given by people who have good motives. Many of us can't afford to pay for everything under the sun. We can get started with our hobby by using Free Stuff.. We don't need to pay for it. But why in the hell should you expect someone to help you make money, and to do it for FREE?! Why should you "profit" from someone else's gift? Do you expect to get everything you need for your life free? No. Why is it ok for you to get paid for your work, but not someone else? Will you give the free stuff creator a piece of your income? I doubt it.

Will you give the free stuff creator a piece of your income? I doubt it. Ya know...if i ever used something from freestuff...or, even something from the market in a render...that i sold, or used to promote myself....and, someone thought the free/bought thing was real cool...i would hook the two up in a heartbeat. i like to spread joy, when it happens. and, i do remember those who have been good to me. would YOU???

"But why should you expect someone to help you make money, and to do it for FREE?!" When I give away freebies, I do so because I want the artist to be happy to see that there are no commercial restrictions, the same as if they purchased it, because it is free. When I pay for something, I expect to be able to use it in commercial images. Free stuff should be no different, except in that because its free, you don't have to pay for it. When I give something away for free, I don't want to hinder the artist, and want him/her to be happy with my RoboChicken, my Shin Blade, or the Tallit Thip created, and I textured. I do have two reasonable restrictions on my work, that they not be used in, or the promotion of, illegal or pornographic material. I respect peoples' wishes if they do not want their stuff used in commercial works - but when I give something away for free, I want it to be free to use however you like, save for those two restrictions I mentioned above. When my modelling business gets rolling, I hope to give away free stuff like Daz does, frequently. And what about all the free stuff Daz gives away? Is it wrong to use a free item in a commercial image from them? How about the Gorilla? That was free, should Daz expect people not to use it in commercial items? They don't, in fact, they allow it. Ben

The word "free" only means you don't pay a purchase price. No...i think it means more. i live in america...alleged land of the "free"....and, from what i remember from history/civics....the american freedoms were based on not having restrictions imposed by others. many words can have several meanings....trust me...i am an esl person...i learned this painfully as a child. please don't muddy the waters, on this issue...think not in terms of money...but, in terms of restrictions.

-- back to the original topic, I agree with JB. I would have preferred the default to be blank until the author indicated their preference. No urgent need to guess at the artist's intent. Seems more accurate to give no additional information rather than to presume to label the items with misinformation.

I wholeheartedly agreed with Jim, MissTara, Talmidben, Poppi, etc. Any item, morph or whatever that I create can be used as the artist sees fit. If something truly is a gift, then what difference does it make if someone makes money off of it or not? (I'd brave to say that it's unlikely for most) "Free" defined as "free with strings" is not free, its more like pro-quid-pro (sp). And free defined as "free to download" that's more akin to borrowing (and I'm saying akin to). Wonderful, that's like "free to try". Pfeh! And I'm not a freeloader by any means, I have purchased many things here, DAZ, Runtime DNA and even 3-D Arena. I definately appreciate every free and purchased item that I have and use. I have emailed many times and left comments when I could to many I have gotten free items from. Feedback is extremely important to me and I extend that to others. If "free" doesn't equate to "freely usable, this is a gift" then what's the point of even sharing folks? Is the only appreciation a monetary compensation? That sounds just as greedy... You get some, where's mine?

I am not ungrateful to those who post their free items, quite the contrary, I take the time to say "thank you" quite often. And yes, I will take the time to write to people when I want to use their free stuff for commercial renders. However, #1, often I lose the readme and cannot find the zip anymore. #2, alot of people change e-mail addresses more often than Liz Taylor changes husbands. It's hard to e-mail someone for permission when their e-mail no longer works. That's why I feel free should be free, period. If you're going to require someone to ask for permission, it's not really free, because there is a cost associated with its use, even if it is taking the time to e-mail someone and wait for a response. Often I have clients who want a piece of art right away and they don't have time for me to wait several days (as is often the case) to get permission from someone to use their item. Now, if all contributors wanted to get upset and say "if you don't like the restrictions, don't download the free stuff" and if everyone listened, there would be no one downloading the stuff and no point in having it. Of course, not everyone would stay away from the downloads, but I thought contributing to free stuff was out of the spirit of giving and "tis better to give than to receive" and such. If that's not the case, if the reason you contribute is not to share with others and be kind and gracious and giving, and to have others enjoy your work, then why contribute? Again, I am not ungrateful. I am very, very grateful to free stuff contributors. But this whole thread did not start out to be a bash-the-people-who-restrict-their-stuff thread, it was simply a suggestion to change the default setting and I thought I would interject my opinion that I thought it was a great idea. Perhaps by having non-commercial as the default people who did not mean to restrict their items might accidentally do so. After all, people who DO restrict their items are the ones who need to be careful and check their settings. People who put no restrictions might not be so careful when posting.

Poppi, please read the read-me files. You will notice that on the QC poses, the terms of use are thus: "Use it. Lots. Free stuff, commercial stuff, I don't care. My hope is that this file will speed up the creation of Poser clothes so that more clothes can be made. All I ask is that you don't sell this file. Feel free to give it to any of your friends; just keep this readme with it. If you want to include it on a CD collection for redistribution, please ask my permission." They can be used for commericial items. That's why they're still posted on the freestuff here and the rest of my stuff is not. If you (general you) want to split hairs, then fine. My stuff isn't free. The price you pay is having to send me an e-mail if you want to make something for sale with my object and obey my response. Frankly, I think that's a pretty cheap price to pay. If you don't like it, go buy something else. You don't get to steal my work. And if I get put out of "business" in six months, fine. I can use the bandwidth for other stuff. As for insults, for the past six months I've put up with being called a "jerk", "b!tch", "@$$hole", and some things I just can't post here, because I ask to be e-mailed for permission if someone wants to use my stuff to make money with. Not even because I don't allow it, because 99.9999% of the time I'd say yes, but because I want to be asked. Fine, I'm sick of it. If that's the "thanks" I'm going to get for trying to do a favor, fine, I'll take my "business" to the 3DCommune, where I don't get this bullsh!t. And if I start getting it there, I'll move again. What was it Anton said in a completely unrelated string? Buying a license to use my products does not also give you a license to insult me? Oh, and as a final note, I looked up "commericial" in the dictionary. "Occupied with or engaged in commerce or work intended for commerce". i.e. something that is not made for profit, but later becomes profitable, is not technically commericial. Darned if I know how a lawyer view this, that just how a linguist views it, and how I view it for my own stuff (albiet explicity stating so is currently a glaring omission in my read-me. I guess I'll go change that on my webpage at least.)

Oh, by the way, while I'm fire-dancing anyway, I should point out that the "commericial/non-commericial" flag doesn't mean dick. It's for reference ONLY. It's the read-me that counts in any legal sense. Given that, would you rather accidentally download something that was marked for commericial use but couldn't be used, or something that wasn't marked but could?

I think Poppi's vision of "free" is nice. Yes, we live in a Free Country. But do you remember the old saying "With Freedom Comes Responsibility?!" Oh, and Freedom of Religion, Speech, etc. are not related to the topic of Free Stuff at all. I do think some people have abused the hell out of the concept of Freedom. We'll save that for another time. *** FyreSpiryt, I feel your pain, and can't argue with your anger, or desire to leave Renderosity. Let me tell you "that other place" isn't always such a safe or ideal place. Hell, I get tired of spending several hours doing something for free, only to turn around and have someone kick me in the balls. That's why Renderosity is my only "real online home" now, and that is why all my Free Stuff and Tutorial links take you directly to my own site. If something goes down the toilet, I don't need to rush over to some online community and change the links. Ron

Well, I am glad that Fyre's conformer is for commercial use. because it is something that will be very useful to me, i think. ron...if my version of "free" is nice...well, i like words, and the many ways in which they can be used. if you remember, i was a huge fan of the now dismatled c&d. i don't use freestuff...for the very reasons in this thread....no, that is not entirely true...mostly, i like making my own stuff...it is satisfying. and, if someone wants to buy something of mine...what a happy surprise. my very favorite victoria texture is janelle by eowyn. i have used her in a couple of gallery posts around christmas time...but, since she is for non commercial use only...well, i found someone who had a real similar variation. i don't have the time to make my own vicki texts, anymore...but, i still need to produce. sigh...there ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy, there's just you and me, and we cannot agree.... ripped off from a song, of course ;*)

You know..I started giving away stuff without restrictions a long time ago.. Nearly 3 years that I have been in this community. I have even seen some of my work in renders that people do for profit. Frankly I am glad to see it used. This is an old debate and I think it tires some. I download stuff and delete what I can't use commercially simply because my art is focusing on commercial art. NO one has said that those placing restrictions are horrible or stupid or should stop. Just that some of us won't be downloading it because we can't use it. Come on people if you think that someday maybe your art will be sold would you use something that requires permission? and what happens after you are long gone and John james jr. great grandson of so and so who got the file here today does an image is he going to email your decendants? NOT SAYING THAT YOU AREN'T ENTITLED TO PUT RESTRICTIONS ON YOUR ITEMS just saying that some of us prefer to look at a larger picture and a larger market area even for our free items. Must be the summer heat.

Commercial (in merriam-webster, anyway) also says: 2 a : viewed with regard to profit

well, since I'm going to be busy writing a complex suite of programms and not able to have the time for using or making anyhting, doesn't matter what happens with stuff uploaded. won't be having much time for even browsing a forum or two. going to work on my graphics suite for linux instead. btw, the only thing you would have to pay for with it will be plug-ins to be able to use proprietary file types, like pz3's have to protect cl's property by only offering in a secure, pre-compiled format. if I can reach an agreement with cl about this...and adobe, and corel, and all other proprietary file types. ( I'm sure I would have to pay them each a % of each plugin sold that enables using their file type, so would have to charge for them)

Can the default be changed to NOT stand alone? I haven't looked if it has changed in the last 12 hours, sorry if it has. But I think 99% of the stuff is not stand alone and defaulting to stand alone is a bit silly. Only new and original meshes would be truly stand alone. That's what I want to find when I search for stand alone.

1. Freeware and shareware are NOT the same as public domain. That applies to the actual item - the model, texture, whatever - it belongs to the maker unless they specifically say it's public domain, and it can't be sold or redistributed without their permission. 2) In the case of digital media, the Renders/Images done with that item are a different story. That's a bit grey, but for me, at least on my things.... the render you do it it is yours. You designed the scene, you setup the render and created the image, the image is yours. No problem. Jaqui is correct that copyright law might not hold up the no commercial renders caluses. That would though fall under contractual law, and contractual law might. It's kinda beside the point though: the creator has the right to put whatever contractual strictures they wish on the use of their creations. If I disagree with the contract, I'm free to not use the items. No probs... But man! Put yourself in the shoes of the freestuff creators on that one... as an artist, would YOU want Me to try and tell you what terms you could put on your work? I kind of doubt it... It doesn't seem that hard to me. I keep the origional zips so I can check readme's and lisences. A lot of times they get seperated as they're burned to CD into "Commercial use"/"non-commercial". If I'm going to download things, and I'm in the business of being a freelance artist..- it's my responsibility to keep track of lisencing on what I use - NOT the responsibility of the freestuff provider. That's just simple proffessionalism, and if I'm going to be a professional, I had damned well better learn proffessionalism. And I had best learn to act like a pro if I expect other professionals to treat me like. Period. That may sound hard, but that's something I learned long ago as a freelancer: if I want to play the game with the other pros, I learn the rules and pays the dues.

Well, I certainly don't plan to sell anything commercially, so don't get my forthcoming comment wrong. I certainly appreciate people who give stuff away for free. And, I've read a lot of threads on this and related topics. So, I have a few remarks/questions: (1) I just can't figure out why someone would give something away and specifically tell people they can't make money with it. If I were able to create anything and didn't want to sell it or try to make money from it, it wouldn't bother me if someone else used it in a render and DID make money from it. Since people here like analogies about yards, try this one: Your neighbor buys a new lawnmower and says he will give you his old one. But before he does so, he tells you that you are strictly prohibited from using that mower to make money by mowing anyone else's lawn. That you may only use it on YOUR lawn. Now, why would that neighbor give a shit? If he did, then he should keep it and go make extra money with it himself. (2) People have place commercial restricitons on renders that have used thier light sets or poses. Now, honestly, how can anyone look at a rendor and know for a fact that HER lights/poses were used (unless some sort of "extreme" pose)? I realize it is a different story for, say, a piece of furniture or auto, etc. (3) Another thread sometime back delved into the possibilites of (a) discovering that an item of yours was used in a commercial render when it had been prohibited (the world is a BIG place!) and (b) going to court and being successful in prosecuting the violator and recieving money. I sued a person (a doctor) whose check bounced in payment for a billing system I wrote for her. I lived next to her county, so it was easy to file. She never showed, so I received a default judgement. Well, I had fun getting my money!!! (NOT) So, I certainly don't want to discourage people from giving away stuff they have worked hard on...but given what I have just mentioned above, I just don't understand why they would restrict it. I certainly wouldn't restrict anything I gave away. After all, if I gave away all my oil painting stuff, why should I get upset if it turned out I had given them to Kinkaid? And as long as I mentioned it, and since I don't seem to understand, would someone please explain to my the reason(s) they have for restricting it?

Ironbear has written one of the few messages in this thread which sounds the least bit adult and professional. Copyright springs into being at the moment of creation. It is a bundle of rights. It is vested entirely in the hands of the creator. The creator AND NO ONE ELSE has the ability to split up that bundle of rights. He may give some rights away freely, and still retain 100% control over the rest of those rights. You do have the right to complain about how he splits those rights; but that is not only self-serving, it is self-defeating. If the creator says "no commercial use" or "with permission only", his decision must be respected, just as his time and the value of his labors must be respected. If you are too flipping lazy to spend 30 seconds asking permission, you don't deserve to have it. Why should you make a profit from his labor? Without even the grace of asking permission? Is that too humbling? Too much to ask for the gift of his time? We have lost many fine people who got tired of being ripped off by the misuse of their work. We almost lost Traveler and a couple of others, who later decided to give this community a second chance. The Japanese modelers are especially sensitive to this, if you use their work without permission they "lose face", with all that implies. Each such loss is a terrible loss to the community as a whole, and just because one greedy bastard couldn't bestir himself enough to ask before taking and using their work in his commercial product. Think about it. If there were no restrictions upon the free items, why would anybody buy in the various Markets? You get what you pay for, and by purchasing a product, you usually purchase more rights with it. If no one buys, the markets will collapse. And when they collapse, we might lose communal websites such as this one, as well as the higher quality items which will no longer have distribution channels. If you are going to be paid for your work, you had best create everything in that rendered image or buy the usage rights for items created by others. The more you act like a professional, the more you will be treated like one. So, folks, GROW UP! You can't just take, take, take, take everything you want, and then bitch, whine, moan, and yammer while refusing to respect the rights of the artist who is willing to share for the joy of sharing. If you don't want to respect those rights, don't bother scrounging through the Free Stuff area. Don't waste your time or their bandwidth. It is that simple. Don't even look. ::shake head:: This is really an ungrateful bunch; worse than any schoolful of kindergardeners. I hope Santa realizes how much coal he is going to need this year. Oh, and Poppi... to say that an artist would lose potential customers by limiting his freestuff is a shade this side of nonsense... if people are taking it freely, they aren't his customers, and if they are endlessly complaining about it, they aren't the customers he wants anyway. And Fyrespiryt... the 3dCommune is the friendliest of the online communities; they've only had to ban one member out of 19,000. The odds here at Renderosity are much worse. I could say more, but would rather work on something given to me by someone here who is truly generous and open-hearted. I need to think about the good people, quiet as they are, and remember why I'm part of this community. Carolly

My free stuff is not restricted. Yet it can be downloaded by someone who does restrict their free stuff. Based on the attitudes of some, my next free stuff item will have the restriction that it is not restricted for people who don't restrict their stuff and restricted for people who do.
That should cover who's grateful, etc.

I genuinely RESPECT the creator's right to place restrictions; however, we could probably have a more constructive discussion if we understood the motiviation of restricting freestuff. How 'bout a poll?

I think the restriction is about commercial usage versus non-commercial usage, not about there being "no" restrictions, which I'm assuming is an absolute no. I don't thing anyone is this thread is utterly refusing the wishes of a free item author either. I really think a lot is being "read into this". Most of us who were asking "why not? and why for?" are also freestuff contributors who ARE sharing for the joy of sharing. Where's mine! Where's mine! Sounds more like kindergarten drabble to me.

Well, I would still like someone to address my question. I'd like to know why a person giving a lawnmower to a neighbor would care if he used it to make money. I'd like to know why a person who gave an item away would care if someone else made money from it. I'm curious why someone would put a restriction on something they would have little chance of proving was used. I'm asking because I don't understand the logic. Now, people can call me ingrate, and any other names befitting those whom they feel are somehow inferior to themself. It's just that in all these discussion that have happened in the past, I've never seen a reason why people restrict a free item. Just the usual pleas for them to stop it and the usual name-calling for people who support it.

The way I see it, no one is likely to slap on a texture, model, etc., render it and make a ton of money from it. If their work becomes noticed and they make money from it, it's likely to be a labor of love with lots of time in it, lots of postwork, etc.

Trying to charge someone retroactively because their work becomes noticed isn't very ethical in my opinion. If you want to make money on it, sell it. If you don't care if people play with it or learn from it, let them do what they will with their renders.

It's common sense that the original texture, mesh, object, etc is the property of the creator and what we are discussing is a finished rendered product. It really surprises me how many people worry that a commercial use allowance will allow people to re-sell their mesh/texture/etc.