I was reading the modeling forum when I saw this comment. It really floored me. I mean that is what bryce is meant for right? Of course you can use it to render files from other programs, do a bit of modeling, but please.... Why try to force a program to be different. Though pushing a program is fine...at it's core Bryce is for landscapes.

Who cares? Mostly I don't do landscapes with Bryce. I don't care what Bryce is meant for - I care what I can do with Bryce. I don't look at a paper and think "oh, I am only allowed to do landscapes with Bryce". No way. :) Bryce is the program I like the most. And so I use it for everything I want to create. :) Take care, Jimi

I like bryce for a lot of things, and oddly enough, I've been doing landscapes in Terragen lately, not Bryce. But, that said, Bryce is one of the easiest programs to use for a variety of things. I still like the B5 render engine (until I find something better) so very often my scene comes together in Bryce instead of Poser or Universe. I'm with Jimi on who cares. Use it for what you like. And when you look at the landscape images done in MojoWorld or Terragen then compare them to the landscapes done in Bryce, its obvious that Bryce is lagging in the texture and sky department so I hope Corel kicks it up a notch with B6.

Bryce is pretty naff at landscapes, all in all. I have high hopes for B6 - for a start Corel need to get away from pure object-based functionality to give us proper grass and foliage and forests and routines for easy snow, beaches, etc. Maybe in Bryce 6 we'll get Vicky in a forest with a sword rather than in a temple... ;)

It's about time Corel got it into its head that Bryce is a modeler as well as a landscaper. My first serious render was of a chess set and I did it all in Bryce. Regards The Bryster

Why try to force a program to be different. Mmmm... here's a partial quotation from Eric Wegner's MetaSynth site's image submission guidlines. "(we would like to see purely abstract work for exemple)." If you don't know who Mr. Wegner is all I can say is that there would have been no Bryce without him- it's his baby. He has moved on long ago... perhaps he got tired of landscapes...

And to add: >Why try to force a program to be different. Difference is what makes art living. To take something as a tool and go new ways is the purest of art I can imagine.

"Why try to force a program to be different." Well, you can learn a great deal in the process! Ive seen a lot of Bryce works, that would give "high end people" a little slap in their faces! And i do not talk about landscapes. (When it comes to landscapes, i havent seen anyone beat Hobbits works. No matter which app!) Also, Bryce is one of the easiest programs to work with and quite cheap. For me, to stop trying to push some limits, would be to stop progressing as an artist! Ill second derjimi in this!

What else can you use Bry for, other than landscapes?

you need to push boundaries,otherwise you can't truly class yourself as an artist. break down the barrier,and run free my friend.

Bryce has done good for me. Sure, you have to work very hard at making the landscapes beleivable, but to me that's what pushing the boundaries are for. Bryce comes with the lattice options in order to create other things besides landscapes, imports different formats so that you're not stuck with Bryce's primitives. It would be nice if Bryce 6 came with new tools such as vertex or spline modeling, but if it doesn't, no big deal; it's what one does with it is what counts :-)

I plan to use Bryce 5 to render an indoor scene. Of course outside there will be a mountain seen from the windows. And most of the light for the scene will be coming from outside the window. I just hope Bryce 5's engine can handle rendering spoons and knives and the glare off of a TV set while also rendering a landscape and sky outside. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

ming on 8/11/02 17:29 What else can you use Bry for, other than landscapes? ----------------------- Asking that question without background shows me that you don't have thought about what we're discussing and disqualifies yourself... you've sorted youself out to be taken seriously easily and quick, thanks. ;) Just look into the gallery and be aware what Bryce can do - and then stop asking silly questions which obviously only be asked to be offending, mkay? ;-) J.

Sure, you have to work very hard at making the landscapes beleivable.... hard? give me 3 minutes and no more than a dozen mouse-clicks and I'll show you a very believable terrain. Add another 30 seconds for sky, mix well, wait for render, and I can have a believable landscape. When I start getting headaches and seeing double from whatever project I'm working on 'pushing the boundaries of this program', I love to just open a new file and whip out a landscape, seascape, moonscape, etc. Let's me know that all is still well in Bryce-world.

Attached Link: http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/gallery.mv?Bryce+only+6+WsPHHOebg

Bryce is for landscapes?......Oooorrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhh................OK, I'll try a landscape in Bryce one day...........maybe...............I think.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

<< Why try to force a program to be different. >> As an artist it's in ones nature to push a program to the extreme. It comes with understanding and developing ones abilities and talents. As for trying to push the software developer to make it something it is not, is ludicrous in my opinion. Trying to force them to implement things it was not designed for will only ruin it IMO. For those who think that some how they can implement all the tool sets needed for it to be a nurb and spineline modeler and it still have the easy to use, are mistaken. Modeling programs require many various tool sets and with them come steep learning curves. Implementing them into Bryce will mean rewriting the code and that means bugs..bugs...bugs. For those who want Bryce to be a modeling program, I say break down and buy your self a modeling program, Rhino, EIU, Carrara or one of the others. Believe me you won't regret it. Besides if they were to put full sets of modeling options into Bryce it will jack the price up to what Rhino or EIU cost now, and it wouldn't be half as good. I say keep developing it for what it is now, and let us push it to the extremes, for what we want to create with it. Tuttle said what I think ( give us proper grass and foliage and forests and routines for easy snow, beaches, etc. ) ...Give us more landscape options...

What else can you use Bryce for, other than landscapes? Well I have tons of fun and not all are Landscapes and all are done with just as much fun as doing landscape scenes...I use Bryce for everything and I mean everything...I am experimenting right now on createing Partical Effects for Bryce and I am also useing Bryce too make a complete 3D Texture Template useing one of my Female Models from Poser and the Template that goes with it...So Bryce just isnt for Landscapes I also have done a few Pictures with a full Forest and in a Temple...If folks would use their Imaginations and experiment a little you would be surprised at what Bryce can do...The only thing that does bother me right now is the animation part when useing a poser figure I hope they do Have something in mind with Bryce Pro....And I have always said I would like to give the higher end Software a run for the money...sure Bryce cant do alot of things the upper Programs can but with a little patience and alot of Planning we can get real close to them tho....

ericofSD, what is the render time of your coffee table pic? Thanks

EricofSD... wait a minute... did I say that Bryce was the best program for creating landscapes? No. Even a dumb West-Texas hick like myself knows that Terragen blows the doors off of Bryce for photorealistic landscapes. But can you put a tree in it? or buildings? or anything else without a lot of compositing? All I'm saying is that these people who say that Bryce can't create a believable landscape obviously haven't spent enough time working with it finding decent settings. Sorry I'm at work right now, but when I get home I'll whip up a 5 minute landscape that will, in my opinion, 'sing' just as loud as yours, in your opinion, does.... maybe just with a different voice. Like other, much more talented people than I have already said in this thread; if you want a top-shelf modeller, or landscape designer, or auto-cad program, there are dozens of other programs out there. As soon as I can save up a couple of thousand bucks I intend to get some of them. But, for what it does at the price that it is, Bryce is one hell of a program. I can't count the number of images I've seen on this forum (many by people who have posted on this thread) that have just blown my mind. I'll think, "You can't do THAT in Bryce", then they'll explain a little how they did it, and I'm even more blown away. So I still learn a little more everyday about this program that I've been using for a couple of years now. And though they are by no means all that I use Bryce for, I still enjoy using it to do landscapes at times. And if that makes me an inferior 'artist', then so be it.

I use Bryce for everything under the sun.. indoor, out door every thing .. Sometimes the render time gets a bit much but that is usually because I am rendering to disk at huge sizes .. lord the limit to what you can do in Bryce is only the limit of your imagination .. for the money I do not think you can get a better more versatile program .. sometimes I wish I could afford Maya or Max .. or any of the high end programs but I can't .. and to tell the truth I do not really feel deprived ;-.

Oh and I think my landscapes turn out not to bad ;-) .. in fact at the moment no other landscape program has tempted me in the least .. saying that the be all end all of a program is how photo real you can make an image means nothing to me personally .. if I want photo real I will take a photo ;-)... BUT if photo real is what you are going for .. well come on just spend some time in the Bryce gallery .. There are a LOT of pretty darn realistic looking images .. Sorry but to me Terragen images are always close to real in the thumbnails .... but on close inspection I am usually disappointed with the textures .. I would say both Vue and Terragen have better skies .... but any thing else to me is arguable.

ming, watch your language!! And as for Who uses Bryce for landscapes... I reckon it works pretty well for landscapes, or anything else you want it to do, like any other 3D app or design tool, it won't make images for you, it's a tool you have to learn how to use and push it to its outer limits. Yes it lacks a few tools internally that would be nice to have, but I also use Maya and other highend apps that I wish had some tools or a better way to do things, but you're NOT gonna get everything in one app, I don't care how hard the company tries, you will NEVER have everything you ever wanted in one app, you will always find something while making a scene that is not there and you will have to look to another app to get it done. I use Bryce professionally and none of my clients have ever shunned it off cuz the animation or still image was made in Bryce, in fact they were most of the time astounded and then went out and bought the application. So nough said.

I did watch my language. When someone is rude to me, I get rude back.

Ming, you mean the one for the realism challenge a couple of months ago? The render of the coffee table image was only a couple of hours. By doing the DOF postwork I probably cut off double that time and had more control over the image. Folypro, particle effects in bryce? I'd love to see. Closest I got was using the tree lab and making the trunk invisible with the leaves spread out. If you want to go outside of Bryce, BT had a really kewl explosion tut not long ago using uvmapper. FWtempest, sing away my electronic friend, sing away. If you make a 5 minute Bryce landscape that catches my attention then I'll be glad to overlay my face on the Poser dork and have the poser hat in his teeth! By the way, no one said you are an inferior artist. I recall voting for you in the past and anticipate doing so in the future. You have the eye. As far as pushing the programmers to make a program do what it was not originally designed for? GO FOR IT!. MS Word 1.O was not designed to be a desktop publishing tool, but today the current version runs way ahead of the DTP tools of yesteryear. P5 is leaps and bounds ahead of P4 pro. Why? Cuz the programmers didn't say "gee, the creator two companies back had a vision and we have to limit our modern knowledge because of it". Push the program, push the company, and push the programmers. Again, in the words of Kenny Rogers I have to say... younger women, older whiskey, faster horses, more money!

Bryce, like all other programs is only a tool. The limits you give to a program are all in your mind!

Terragen I have no experience of, but from my limited experience of Vue I would say that Vue does better landscapes than Bryce. But Bryce is extremely good at interior scenes and very easy to work with. Building interiors in Vue is more difficult than in Bryce. So I would say that Bryce is an ideal tool for general-purpose rendering.

to the best of my limited knowledge, terragen won't import any kind of 3d models at this time. It's a dedicated landscape creator. It does, however, create some excellent backdrops for use in poser, bryce, etc. EricofSD... sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were calling me inferior personally. That just seems to be the general feeling of high-end app users toward those of us who are content with progs like Bryce. Not all of them, but quite a few.

Well, I don't know about all this. I would stay away from saying that one app is "better" than another for landscapes - you get out what you put in. I agree that if you've only got 10 minutes then you can produce a better landscape in Terragen than in Bryce, but if you only have ten minutes then I suggest a quickie with the missus is more in order than attempting to produce art. I'm hoping that Bryce6 will give us easier access to landscape functions such as grass and snow, but if not it won't stop me from implementing them, it'll just take longer. It's pretty much the same with any 3d function (other than modelling) - most effects that can be done in high end apps can be done (or simulated) in Bryce with a bit of work. Having said all that, maybe it WOULD be interesting to have an inter-app challenge (of the friendly variety). Terragen vs Bryce - 1 month to produce the most convincing landscape in either app. At the end of the day, I suspect some people might be putting salt & pepper on their hats. ;)

Attached Link: Some Abstracts

Attached Link: http://uk.geocities.com/bryster3d

oh man... it just occurred to me... of course Bryce can be used to do indoor scenes, abstracts, etc., but anyone who says Bryce can't create realistic landscapes has never seen the cover of the Bryce 4 manual (for one example). I want to be Martin Murphy when I grow up and get good at this program.

Sorry, but to me a landscape with NO plants, NO buildings, NO anything but mountain shapes and water, is anything BUT realistic - regardless of how good the textures are. Granted, Terragen does very good mountain shapes, and has good textures, but even old Vistapro was very good at doing mountains, even though it was very limited in textures. I have Terragen and have played around with it a few times, but I prefer to use Vistapro and my paint program to sculpt terrains for use in Bryce - results in much finer control over details in the terrain. When they are close to what I want, I then import to Bryce for final shaping (erosion, mainly) and texturing. As far as what can be done in Bryce, I have yet to hear of ANY 'type' of scene that can't be done in Bryce.

I'm gonna have to play around with Bry for modeling. I use Rhino to create my feeble attempts at creating models. I dread having to learn a new application. But I've gotta give it a try! LOL Thanks everybody

Attached Link: http://www.redshoesdigital.com

What a great thread! You can feel the spark of violence and defensiveness at the mere thought of the Bryce God being usurped! That said, Terragen is clown shoes. I totally agree with Tempest, and if that pic wasn't already posted to show Eric what's up I'd do it myself! Compare the two, and Bryce easily competes, and in my opinion is much deeper. But it's all about the artist, as well... I've seen both of you two do awesome work! Enough whining, no more energy need be spent comparing, only creating...! Don't you people have lives? (laughs long and hard at hisself) Go RENDER STUFF!

I think it was a productive thread and ming seems to be interested in Bryce now. I'll always use Bryce because, as I've said, its got a great render engine and its where my scenes come together. Yeah, I have seen some realistic landscapes and the cover of the bryce box is just one example. I also agree that terragen is a very limited app, but there are reasons for that and it will remain a limited app for quite some time. FWtempest, I know what you mean about the snobbery of the high end app users. Its a shame. I'm not one of those guys yet and if I do learn EIU well enough to be comfortable I'll probably go to LW for all the poser plugin stuff, but that's a ways off. Ok, happy rendering everyone.

ditto... as soon as I win the lottery I'm all over either maya or lightwave. But for now I'm more than happy with what I've got. Now... back to work on that abyssal (abysmal?) scene.... Laterz

I notice that a lot of people that use 3D Studio Max to render stuff, don't use it to model stuff. So that tells me that not one heavyweight (3DSM, Maya, Rhino, LightWave) app is necessarily the best for both modeling and rendering either. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

Ming, I want to apology my rudeness. It seems that you really didn't had any clue of what Bryce is capable. I thought that you were kidding us and tried to be offensive. My fault, my turn to beg your pardon. Take care, Jimi

Schooner, take the time to get the watermark edition of LW. I haven't received mine yet, but from what my e-friends say, its quite the app. Maya has a personal learning edition out (watermark edtition), so you can DL that and play. After months of research, best guess is LW. It takes an insider to say differently.

Wow, It's only been a day since I checked this! I don't mean that you shouldn't push a program, I just wish people would look at what the core is. As for realism...it depends on what your going for. I'm not into realism myself(heh, I'm writing an article on that very subject actually), not every artist is a realist(boy wouldn't that be boring). I use bryce as a render engine, for landscapes, indoor scenes and more. Bryce is fun, but I think people want too much out of a 3-400 dollar app. All those lists I've seen would easily push bryce into the 5000 dollar range if corel had a mind to.

That's why I'd like to see Corel produce two products - Bryce6 & Bryce Pro, priced at maybe 250 (UKP) and 1500 respectively. That way everyone's happy - hobbyists & professionals - or well-off hobbyists! ;)

[[ I notice that a lot of people that use 3D Studio Max to render stuff...]] I've also noticed a number of people who render in Bryce and post in the Bryce gallery, who list MAX as their modeling app. - both here and elsewhere.

Reply to Allen9: I'd like to see those pics if you come across them. To me, it makes sense not to put all your eggs in one basket. Using more than just one 3D program brings out the best in artists. The car I used (above) came from Ray Dream Studio (imported as a DXF). SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

I used to do landscapes in Bryce untill I joined a fantasy/scifi site that did not like landscapes. Then I did other stuff than landscapes. Would like to go back and make landscapes again. Would not model in Bryce though, it drives me nuts.

It sounds like you joined a cult of some kind that didn't like landscapes. How did you purge yourself from them? Or did you take over the group and convince them that landscapes are good, and are needed in Sci-Fi to place moonbases and mechs on? SHONNER http://www.shonner.com