Really puts things in perspective. ;)

One good damn reason I don't wear hardly any make-up. The idea that I'd be practically unrecognizeable out of it would sadden me.

That second one.... isn't that Morgan Freeman??? -Jon

I think it is pretty small and ignorant to say any of those women are ugly in the before pictures when they really show more character and look more interesting than in the after pictures. Why are we so much harder on women then on men in the looks area? And why don't we consider character a plus in women when we value it in the men? The guys that are blabbing on about how ugly Judy is haven't posted their lovely faces on the boards...and I bet the women looking at them would be much more considerate of their feelings then the men have been about the women. It does no honor to our sisters, mothers, friends or ourselves to insist that the only beautiful woman is one that has made herself into a carbon copy of some idiot's idea of what beautiful is. It's really sad when a society puts so much value on something so unimportant. Beauty and youth fade, my dears. Character and intelligent last. And the guys better hope women never put as much value on looks as the men do or the species will end.

I love women without makeup. Just my preference. Ron

LOL dialyn, I love your point of view. To bad most people don't get it though. And Lucy, I don't either. Like me for who I am not for what I look like.

Dialyn, you are absolutely correct. Self-confidence, Intelligence, and a sense of humor (to my taste) are much more important to long-term attractiveness. Unfortunately, poser characters have none of these. I suspect that's why us guys are concerned so much with their looks. Their looks are the only thing they have. Looks are also subjective, I think Judy's kinda cute...

I'm with ron. All my women don't wear makeup, or they don't wear anything at all. Makeup is vanity...the path to the Dark Side. Plus it looks phoney and tastes horrible.

Well, I guess that makes me a throwback :) I happen to LIKE "my women" to be attractive to my eye. Now, beauty is indeed (somewhat) subjective on an individual level. What I am amused by is that we are supposed to "live and let live" ... unless it means we like women who conform to a beauty standard that is rare or difficult? Then we are just shallow or something :) Do I like smart, self confident women? You betcha! I also like it when they wrap that up in a package that I find attractive. There is no reason not to have it all. This does not make me "shallow" :) As for why I prefer a made-up look (within reason)? Blame it on evolution. Human males are genetically predisposed to certain preferences. Among those: * Symmetrical faces * Smooth skin * Even skin tone * Larger eyes This is one of those things - those traits are generally markers of health and youth, two properties with an evolutionary advantage in mate selection. Of course that varies from person to person, so don't get all twisted about it :) But as a broad general factor in human culture, smooth skin for example is more attractive than not. Just some thoughts. Not everyone who LIKES girls to be pretty are shallow :)

Who said they were "Women"...they could be Drag Queens :) Niles

Although studies have been done that show that in general, people find both men and women more attractive if they have symmetrical faces, large eyes, etc., there really isn't any proof that it's genetic. Also, I'm really not sure how general the studies actually were -- did they study different groups around the world, or only people of certain groups?

The concept that it's genetic smacks a little too much of the T&A theory of evolution -- that women have hips and breasts because men find that attractive. One alternate theory to that is that women have hips, breasts, etc, because having a baby, nursing it, etc. requires a lot of energy, and fat is an excellent source of energy. There's more to the theory, but it's been a while since I've read about it. :)

Of course, it's possible that it is genetic. It seems that perhaps we're genetically predisposed to find certain animals "cute," because they have similar facial features to babies (the Panda comes to mind -- large head, with emphasized eyes).

There's definitely a lot of interesting processing that happens when people see faces. :)

Auralia

I think this all is very simple to solve....NO one in the world should wear make-up or clothes at all...then we are all on equal grounds and can be at REAL face value...grin Imagine how the world would change...?? No more deceptions...NATURAL beauty...the natural wonders of REALITY... Frankly...I don't really understand why so many women DO wear sooo MUCH make-up...most are very beautiful...even more pretty at times than WITH TOO MUCH make up.....a little is nice at times...like perfume...a little can go a long ways...too much can smell like a toilet....make up...too much or caked on can be rediculous...as bad as a toupe....or banana strapped to leg.....?? Plastic surgery can also be "overdone".... grin...online can have its' particular deceptions....offline can too....oh yeah... Cheers!

I still say not everyone can be a supermodel Perhaps the hostility come from the fact that those of us not up to supermodel status are going to be alone for the rest of our lives....of course I've already beat evolution because I have a daughter...still little comfort in the companionship area.

DRKMO: You are hundred % right.

Well, whatever...but would LOVE to know what makeup they are using LOL!!! I would love to be able to transform myself like that just for a night out for something different. I get tired of my face and love to try out new stuff :) Has nothing to do with how I feel about myself, would like to know how those looks are accomplished. Another thing I'm wondering...what type of film did they photograph with? Pendy

I've never trusted women that wear lots of makeup because you just don't know what they're hiding underneath ;-) I once actually worked with a woman that was attractive with makeup but I always thought she wore too much. She came in one day with almost no makeup and she was gorgeous! I was going crazy trying to think of a nice way to tell her she looked better with little makeup than she did with lots.

welp, if i woke up next to a couple of those ladies, I would say, "damn, i must of had a few too many last night..."

Actually, in my experience women are harder on other women than men are. I'm also aware of the studies of anthropologists that show that all around the world (not just in one particular culture) males tend to evaluate females by physical attributes. Females tend to evaluate males by potential ability to provide for them. That's based on objective studies - not opinion. I'm not at all saying it's right or wrong. I can't say what causes it. I will, however, say that it's what is. If it's any consolation, I've never seen a guy I thought was beautiful.

A woman who goes through the effort of putting on makeup as shown in the images above SHOULD have a man taking care of her. She's got no time for a job. It takes all day long to put on her face. ;) I will go through an effort like that as soon as I meet the man who only wants me to do that, sit on a cushion and sew a fine seam and feast upon strawberries, sugar and cream. And who shaves on the weekends and wears different clean cothes every single day and who never makes me grumpy or worrisome, because that will give me wrinkles. And... Phoenix

"Take a look at the real world and see what a bit of postwork can do!"

Is that what a girl's make up is called these days? Postwork? :P

I wear makeup when Im going out, but other then that I dont. Wish I could look that good after some "postwork"..maybe I need a makep artist to follow me around. LOL. I dont see a need to wear makeup if Im just hanging around my house etc. So when I do wear makeup people are like "wow look at you, you got makeup on". Hehe.

I think that drkmo should have his own Cable fishing show. He threw out the bait and you all swallowed it hook line and sinker. All he has to do now is mention how high heals make a woman's legs look alot sexier, and he can just reel you on in. Drkmo, just make sure "ya throw 'em back when yer dun!"

This is why you should always ask to see a picture of their mothers before diving in.

**auralia - ** "Also, I'm really not sure how general the studies actually were -- did they study different groups around the world, or only people of certain groups?"

If I remember correctly it was cross cultural. Some studies also indicate that infants have the same preferences... which would lead to an instinct/genetic imprinting theory.

auralia - "There's definitely a lot of interesting processing that happens when people see faces. :)"

Yes there is - it is intimately tied to a wide variety of factors. The most important thing to realize is that the fiction that beauty is defined ONLY by media/culture is incorrect.

A combination theory is reasonable. Women are shaped as they are partially due to the needs of child bearing. Men obviously would find evolutionary advantage in mating with women who were good child bearers - and the cycle feeds on itself.

Tirjasdyn - "I still say not everyone can be a supermodel

Perhaps the hostility come from the fact that those of us not up to supermodel status are going to be alone for the rest of our lives....of course I've already beat evolution because I have a daughter...still little comfort in the companionship area."

No, not everyone can be a supermodel... but certainly that isn't an issue in the evaluation of what is beautiful to someone. It is almost a given that the average will never be they standard - specifically because it is strongly possible the attraction to beauty is to secure a potential evolutionary advantage in breeding partner.

Despite this most people manage to have fulfilling lives and relationships - even though they are not supermodels or stunningly beautiful. But I can't see why there is any reason to be angry about it.

giljoe - "All he has to do now is mention how high heals make a woman's legs look alot sexier, and he can just reel you on in."

But, but, they do :)

Attached Link: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=kevyn+aucoin

IMHO, many of those women were helped more by the smile than they were by the makeup. Personally, I don't wear makeup because I take no joy in it. I do dabble in Mehndi and will sometimes paint my face on weekends because I do enjoy that.

Agree with you FyreSpiryt. Ever notice how in almost all "before/after" photos, the "after" is smiling? And I offer full support to Dragonwalk's solution! Get rid of the clothing and make-up industries all together.

As a more or less 'natural' person, I find that being able to rub my eyes, scratch at a small tickly area on my chin, rest my cheek upon my husband's shoulder, getting hugs from my kids, eating, drinking, etc are so much more easily and enjoyably done & with much less stress/drama (oh my gawd - you wrecked my make-up!) than if I had spackled on a few layers of color. I also feel better about how my skin can breathe - that it's not being stifled. Give me a break about make-up that lets your skin 'breathe' - it's being coated onto your skin! Once in a while - mayhap only 10 times a year - I will put on more than my 'usual' amount of make-up (which is normally just eyeliner on my upper lids) and I can't remember the last time I went full bore with the foundation, concealer, tweezers, lash curler, etc.......high school, I think....... One reason I think Vicky and her renditions are made so beautiful for the most part - because we do not have a real world interaction with her - she can't impress us with her personality and intelligence and goofy quirks and stories of her past. The things we cherish in real people are things we cannot find in her. To be sure, her static images are dressed up with stories, but I really think the bottom line is that our 'value' of her virtual being is that we are able to imbue her with the strength AND beauty that we either wish we had or could see in our lives.