Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=277309&Form.sess_id=569120&Form.sess_key=1037145628

Has anyone else ever had a comment on the subject matter of a piece. How do you respond? Should I just grin and bear it?

Here's the link. Comments are always welcome.

Thanks!

Jim

Jim, you will always run into those arsehole homophobiacs, who feel so threatened and unsecure with themselves that they can't stand gays... gays are contagious, remember????? That WAS actually something I heard from friends, once...unbelievable. And no, I am not gay, I just have some in my family. I would say, just ignore them, be secure in your art and who you are, and keep on making these tender pictures!

Don't worry about Kimper there. I actually asked my spirit sister the professional artist about what she learned in college about comments on subject matter and showed her what I was talking about. Her response was that while artistic critique can include how appropriate the subject is to express the intended message, "this guy's just a bigot". There's nothing about the artistic merit of the pic, no suggestions for improvement, not even the commentator's definition of family. Write him off as the ignorant fool that he has shown us.

Worst I ever had was at rotica, I posted in x cgi and was told by someone to move it to the x gay gallery....... it's surprising the bad things people can find to put on other people's pics. Fuck em Jim, they're sad morons with nothing better to do with their time :D Alex

I commented on your image, Jim.
Tho I am not homosexual, I see no reason at all why anyone should think a same sex couple couldn't make a spectacular family. Yes, it is a delicate situation, but not one that can't be overcome.
My emotions against homosexual descrimination are quite passionate, but I shall simply chalk it up to a simple word - ignorance. People really need to get over it....

Hey Jim - you got 2 choices - either just grin and bear the homophobic arseholes response or get the Mods/Admins to remove the comment (which I believe they can do). Personally I'd leave it there - the further comments won't make much sense. Considering it's one negative comment out of a whole lot of positive commentary - it just goes to show what a narrow-minded fool this person is. If you wanted to take it further you could IM the idiot and tell them how inappropriate you thought his/her comments were and if they didn't like the subject matter they should just move on. Actually I think we should all IM this person and tell them that. Maybe they'll think twice before spewing their narrow minded hateful opinions across the galleries. Guarie (My 10cents worth)

Well... I got flamed along time ago, when I was a nube. I used it to motivate Me to get better. But, thats Me. I personally agree with madrigal... Fuck 'em. Saddest part is, if it was Vicki & Vicki, or Vicki & Steph... same concept, just with 2 women instead of men... it'd be A-OKAY. Black Adder has no gallery... so screw his opinion. Kimper... just ignore him... he's errr.... not worth the time(as polite as I can put it). My opinion. Thomas

Well, here's an interesting take on the whole deal...there are quite a few instances of child sexual abuse from heterosexual men..to boys and girls....there are pervs in all persuasians...straight, gay, priests, whatever. I'm not gay, but the gay men and women I know are some of the most loving people I've ever met...tolerant, caring, and very good people.

OH...forgot...as far as the image and the reply...for the most I think you need to just ignore it and realize that everyone isn't as tolerant as you may be of other than the "established" ideals, no matter how off they may actually be. Unless you want to hash it out :) Who knows, the right words may help to make a few folks understand.

There's an idiot born every minute. I wouldn't give it a second thought. Quite the package on the guy on the left, by the way.

Somewhere there is a village who's missing their idiot, yes? :-) Seriously, ignore the comment ... I know that's easy to say, but I've had some pretty ugly comments sent to me via email about some of the art on my websites, I just grin and go on. It would be nice to try and believe the human race has evolved past bigotry, discrimination, judgment, intolerance, etc., but it just isn't so, not yet. I try and look at it as a lesson in how "not" to behave toward my fellow humans beings ... these kinds of people "can" help to teach us after all. :-) BTW, excellent image, very nice!

The only reason that lesbian couples get a little less bigotry is that it's erotic to some guys [most guys?] All I can think is, if they're insensitive boors, they just haven't seen enough gay people, they don't know that humans are humans across the board. It's hard to be slapped in the face with someone's ignorance but it's worthless to slap back. Somehow, then, you've just "proved" something to the oppressor. I won't say "him" cause there are plenty of homophobic women out there. Having come from a horribly dysfunctional family, I don't care what sex the parents are, as long as they love and care for their children-- family is a huge and embracive subject, not a narrow cage. Emily

pdx: Took a quick look at your gallery and, if I can be so bold, it suggests you are either bi or gay. If I am wrong, it's not really an insult (I still find time to get a laugh learning that some coworkers thought myself and my best friend were gay because we spent a lot of time on breaks together and lunch...we got lots of mileage out of that...ROFLOL!) But if you are, then, judging from some good gay friends I have, you must have learned to deal with it by now. If you are out at a restaurant with your significant other and get stares, I suspect you have learned to ignore them. In fact, I would suppose you expect it by now. It should be no different in this matter. SO, like others above said, forget it. If it's difficult to ignore it, I suspect one could dig up some statistics that would startle all the people who are against that kind of family.

Maybe I'm just nieve but the first thing I thought upon seeing the picture is that they were brothers, because if not, the resemblance is striking. Sad how many people can only see the negative in any situation...

Figures MY intelligent and witty post would be next to "Tha Docs"!

They are a family. Anything goes as long as it's consenting adults. The only people I would like to beat up are the perferts that prey on children.

Geez, I'm so sick of ignorant people saying that anyone who doesn't like homosexuals is homophobic.....that's about as ignorant assumption as any. People have just as much right to dislike homosexual lifestyles as those who like it or those who don't care one way or the other. But everytime someone displays their dislike for it, they are labeled homophobic...what cap! BTW...2 of my closest friends are homosexual males...makes me no difference so don't try to put that label on me because I made a comment that's not popular.

Yeah, what Legume said. Sweet picture btw. :)

I agree w.Dizzie... not everyone who disagrees is homophobic. Some people just don't agree w/certain things, yanno ? :) I don't expect everyone to like tomato soup like I do, but that doesn't mean they have issues lol :)

In this case, the only thing to do is to ignore it. Responding to clueless people like that in public is not worth the effort. Alert them in IM instead, politly pointing out that they only make themselves look like ignorant and clueless idiots making public comments like that. As for the image itself: You wrote in your comments that you had problems with the ground shadows. Did you put the texture/material directly on the Poser ground plane? It appears that the ground plane often has a problem catching the shadows. Try to use a flattened box or a the plane from the primitives collection as ground, and the ground shadow might get better.

So you don't like homosexual lifestyles, Dizzie? Why could that be, I wonder? I work at home, my lover goes out to work, I shop at Marks and Spencers, he does his at WalMart, he cleans his house, I ignore it till it swamps me, he likes Jeeps and I have a weakness for old Jags...... I guess Jim and all the other gay artists that post here have a whole different lifestyle each, so if you're gonna dislike all of that, there's not a lot left to like :D M

Noone mentioned anything about homosexual LIFESTYLES, Madrigal. Only the point that calling someone homophobic just becourse they do not (for one reason or another) like the idea of being homosexual. I have homosexual friends, which I like a lot, but I do NOT like what they do when they're alone and in bed. And I guess that's the thing they have in common. Not where they live, eat, shop or work, but well, the sexual part of homoSEXUAL. If that makes me a homofobic, then so be it. But personally I really don't care what people are - and frankly I do not want to KNOW. What people do when they're within their own 4 walls concerns them and them alone. Except for child molestors, of course, those I'd gladly .... ah well I won't write that in public, or I'll have to put up the Violence flag. Point is, that whoever labels people AS A MASS as homophobic are no better than the ones they try to label.

well I've been razzed for some of my erotic male/male images over at renderotica sigh. So idiots, unfortunately, abound. I'd say go forth and make sweet pictures of alternative families :) and ignore the loudmouths. It's not that long ago that a single mother was a social outcast. The more something is made commonplace, the more accepted it is. Unfortunately for me and many of my friends - gay and lesbian marriages will be accepted long before polyamorous marriages sigh Legume - don't you dare complain about your comment collection :) rolls eyes You earn 'em fair and square! mutter Gonna give me gray hairs mutter

Polyamorous ?

hey, ernyoka, just being lighthearted here about the homosexual lifestyles - which were mentioned by Dizzie...... I'm quite aware that it's the sex part that some people don't like, hell, what else would it be? And homophobic - I guess that's a definition of not liking homosexuals, right, same as agoraphobic means you don't like open spaces, although strictly speaking, shouldn't homophobic mean you don't like men? Or is my Greek just as bad as I think it is :D BTW, I'm not labelling anyone, I get enough of that myself, don't need to do it to anybody else. If someone doesn't like what I do, all I can say is, I like it, no, gods, I love it, if you don't, you don't have to look........ Polyamorous, Lyrra? Go for it :D Alex

Blackadder is a buffoon. I feel that he must have some dark little issues inside..I saw two guys with a little boy, don't know where Blackadder lives but on my planet men often carry kids around, I've carried my friend's kids on my shoulders many a time (which explains the nappy rash). Amazing to think that people still have such attitudes in the 21st century.
Pd, ignore him and just do your own image work. If he doesn't like the imagery included on Renderosity he has the right to criticise but he does not have the right to make offensive comments.
Mon
'Somewhere there is a village who's missing their idiot, yes? :-)'

Love it :)

Litterally homofobic means fear of men, yes. And that's why you strictly can't call a lesbian homosexual, she's the complete opposite G As I also stated in my previous post: What people do when they're alone concerns none but them selves. As long as 2 people agree on what they want to do in the matter of sexual behaviour, then they should by all means do it. But that doesn't mean that I have to like that, does it? Some people even find pleasure in someone sh*tting on them. Frankly I do not like that either. So I'm a crapophobic as well LOL But I have no problems at all socializing with any people becourse of their SEXUAL orientation. Most of the time I'm so dense I wouldn't know a gay couple even if they sat right in front of me. Oh and btw, pdxjims, your picture is very sweet. A bit... well, it was bound to make some comments. But 2 men (or 2 women) can be just as good parents as a "normal" couple. OR just as bad. Being homosexual doesn't make you any better or worse in itself, remember. Oh yes and someone mentioned that 2 women with a child wouldn't have caused as much fuss. I agree. Somehow you're more used to seeing 2 females hugging, holding hand, and all that. I bet if the pic had been of 2 women noone would have even thought "lesbians", they would have thought Mother and Children G Ah, 'nuff rambling for now. Getting back to work sigh

Wonderful, touching subject matter IMHO tastefully done... I believe people have every right to voice their opinions in an intelligent and well founded manner no matter how bloody offensive they might be to others but...that's what the damned OT forums are for! Gallery comment guidelines clearly state no flaming, etc...the only criticism that should ever be left there is CONSTRUCTIVE. If you have a problem with an idividual, IM them and quit airing out your dirty knickers to get your trolling rocks off! loving hugs to all -Des

"Geez, I'm so sick of ignorant people saying that anyone who doesn't like homosexuals is homophobic." That's what "homophobic" means, Einstein. If you don't like blacks, you're a racist. If you don't like jews, you're an anti-semite. If you don't like homosexuals, you're a homophobe. Get it? "I have homosexual friends, which I like a lot, but I do NOT like what they do when they're alone and in bed." It's none of your damned business what they do alone in bed. And chances are, what you do in bed grosses them out a little, too. "Point is, that whoever labels people AS A MASS as homophobic are no better than the ones they try to label." Unfortunately, in big chunks of the country, straight people as a mass ARE homophobic. It's not a label, it's just true.

Unfortunately bigotry, racism, homophobia, chauvinism or whatever hatred label these pieces of shit fall under, will never go awayNot in our life time anyway. Personally, I dont think its any better than it was 30 or 40 decades agoits just now there are many laws in place to shut these fucks up, publicly. All you can do is be the better person. Overall, I do believe Legume summed it all up rather accurately. The human race is so pathetic sometimeswe constantly brag about how much better/smarter we are then any other race, yet we spent most of our lives figuring out how to eliminate, discriminate and one-up each other. We, not applying to EVERYONE, so dont think Im referring to YOU specificallyunless of course, you fall under one of those labels

"Homo" in the terms homosexual and homophobic are not relating to the word "man". It instead means "same" (as in homogenous, having resemblance in structure). To be homophobic is to have fear and/or contempt for lesbians and gay men. I have my own feelings and opinions on homosexuality, but they don't matter. A person never has the right to force their beliefs on another, whether is be race, creed, sexuality, gender or choice of pizza toppings. We're supposed to all be created equal. For those of you basing your opinion on religion (speaking from Christianity), I know what the bible says here. I also know it says we are not supposed to judge, that is not our job.

Thank you everyone for your comments, and especially thank most of you for your support. A special thank you to those in the community here who have sent me personal messages of support. I started this thread more for a concern that two comments were posted, not in the spirit of art, but rather on the content. I really didnt expect it since Ive posted other gay positive, and gay family images before here, have never had anything other than helpful criticism. Renderosity seemed like a safe place. Sometimes safe places are hard to find when youre a member of a minority that is routinely discriminated against. I suddenly didnt feel safe here. Your many words of support have encouraged me. Im as hard shelled as the rest, but this one took me by surprise. I know that many people have issues with single sex couples with children, but I expected at least some commentary on the quality of the art, rather than disturbing, where did they steal him, and this is not a family. I found this thread to be very enlightening, supportive, and at times humorous. The term homosexual lifestyle is always funny to me. There is no homosexual lifestyle. Gay men and lesbians participate in all walks of like. Construction workers to hairdressers to computer programmers to conservative Republicans. In truth, the only thing we started with in common was a shared attraction to the same gender. However, decades of discrimination, verbal and physical attacks, dealing with the mass death of loved ones while our government discarded them as disposable, and institutionalized harassment has forged a community with a common heritage. If anyone wants to know what Gay Pride is, read about how those in our lifestyle faced the AIDS crisis. Frankly, anyone who can care for the dying with a sense of caring and love is more than adequate to give the same kind of love, nurturing, and caring to a child. I know a number of gay and lesbian couples who have been blessed with children. Gay men and lesbians work harder at making a family than anyone else, because we have to go through so much for that precious gift. Some adopt, some have children by a previous relationship with a person of the opposite sex, some buy turkey basters and look for a volunteer to either contribute sperm or carry a child. These individuals and couples are the most caring and supportive parents Ive seen. They, more than any other parents, take no risks with their children. The chances that an oppressive government will try to take them away are too great. They work harder to make their relationships stable, and try harder to work out problems. Separation for a straight couple means an institutionalized method of settling custody, for a gay or lesbian couple it means the possible loss of their child. In a world where so many children are alone and hungry, any form of loving family should be cherished. I produce gay themed art because it reflects my own life and interests. Some people do pretty fairies, or the infamous Naked Vicky in the Temple, or the even more infamous Pink Pony (which I love). Good for them. Some do religious themed work. Good for them. When most of us see a picture that we can say something constructive about, or give words of encouragement, we leave a comment. Constructive criticism is good. One line jabs isnt. I could have taken the comments much better, if something constructive had been added. The result of comments like these is first to make me angry, then sad and afraid, then ready for the good fight. Ive hit the good fight stage. Ill be posting more alternative family pictures, and Ill take my licks from those who dont like my view of the world. Maybe I can open some eyes. I hope they can add something constructive to their comments. I have an idea for a short series. Has anyone seen a turkey baster prop? Thanks again for your support. Jim

Attached Link: http://3dcafe.com/asp/househld.asp

The real problem with the comment isn't so much that it disparaged gays as that BA saw it as something sinister. Even though the word "family" appeared in the title, BA saw the picture as some sort of abduction or prelude to child abuse. As I think Dave-So implied, too many people associate homosexuality with pedophilia. Child abuse is rampant among heterosexuals. Unfortunately, those with homophobic agendas (or in the case of the Vatican, something to hide) want to strengthen this fraudulent association in the public mind. Legume is correct that Jim has to expect some objection from narrow-minded folk when posting provocative images, but my real point is that when I saw the image, I thought "brave posting ... looks like a happy family." When BA saw it, s/he not only saw something sinister, but felt he had to say so, and ranked the picture with a "Hmmmm." What does that say about BA? The objection was not to gayness or gay families ... it was to what BA projected on to the image, which Jim clearly didn't intend. Strength to you, Jim. I know you inteded nothing evil. As someone who has known happy gay families (including, believe it or not, families with a gay male father and a gay female mother,) I think you were brave to "buck the norm." We all know what a traditional family is, but I refuse to accept that anything else can't be a real, lovin, healthy family. Reality is much broader than small or bigoted minds would have it be.

Attached Link: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=homophobic

Attached Link: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=moron

LOLOLOLOL

a turkey baster ?!? um ... don't get TOO graphic there, eh? Ladyjaiven Polyamourous - 'many loving', usually transalted as 'loving more than one person'. Often used to describe multiple adult families and households. I know many families made up of 3 or more adults with or without children. Oddly enough they are more stable in the long run than many traditional families. But that's just my opinion :) Lyrra "the plural of spouse is spice" Madril

Asrai, it actually Is better than it was 30, 40 years ago. I know, I was there 30 -40 years ago and you could not walk out in the street like pdxjims picture-- hell, you couldn't have the kid in the first place. It was, ipso facto, child abuse for same sex couples to raise children. Why, they might pass on heaven knows what-- tolerance?? Though, the tolerance level of Lesbian towards Gays is not all that high. Getting better, though. I think it's the money thing. I know I don't live in straight America, I dont live in consensus reality. I'm a Pagan who has worked in the theatre, at any particular time in my life, gays and lesbians have at least been 50% or more of my general social group. As have polyamorous couples. Not everybody has been this blessed. The more we are around difference, the more differences dissolve in our humanity and boy is that fucked up.LOL. But at least it's familiar. Everybody dislikes something, hates somebody else and is eager to find scapegoats. It takes a lot of effort to get away from that thinking. Nope, pdxjims, this isn't a safe place, but it isn't a shooting gallery either. We're alive, there are no really safe places anywhere. In closing, I would like quote from a semi-famous polyamorous priest, Otter G'zelle-- if you don't like it, you can't have any. Words of wisdom, should be how we live. Emily Nobody would like what I do in my bedroom, I just sleep.

queri, Im pagan and work in the theatre too ... so Im no stranger to the discrimination, labeling and clich that follow those particular groups. All in all, some of the BEST human beings Ive ever met come from within those groups.

Asrai, it actually Is better than it was 30, 40 years ago. I know, I was there 30 -40 years ago and you could not walk out in the street like pdxjims picture-- hell, you couldn't have the kid in the first place. It was, ipso facto, child abuse for same sex couples to raise children. Why, they might pass on heaven knows what-- tolerance?? Though, the tolerance level of Lesbian towards Gays is not all that high. Getting better, though. I think it's the money thing.

As I stated, now there are laws in place to protect people from those who would otherwise cause them harm, be it for sexual preference, race ... etc. Pretty sad that we even need such laws huh??? Unfortunately, I feel that there is still an incredible amount of anti-this, anti-that hate ... Now its just illegal to act on that hate ... and yet it still happens at times ...

Like I said ... Pathetic ...

I just rendered this image, I didn't post it though (it is not good enough to post). I wonder if I do post it if I will receive the same type of comments. I am too young too remember a time when this pic. would be called controversial.

Keep rendering!

Just so we're clear... Kimper is NOT krimpr. I don't want anyone throwing soup cans at me for something I in no way contributed to . After that stupid pillar thing...

herr67--I doubt this one would arouse much controversy, even among the junior high contingent. But if you switched their ethnicities and cranked up the eros knob a little, you might get an interesting response...

Dear pdxjims. I am a straight (whatever that is) guy married to a wonderful woman. I Live in Denmark. Some of the best friends I've had are gay. Both male and female. Hell gay people get married here. Ok not in church, but they do it. I didn't even pickup on the gay 'idea'. Mosca: To be able to say 'I don't like candy' One must tast it first...... I dont like the idea of what they do, any more than the idea of golden rain or shitsex. BUT I DONT SHOUT IT OUT TO THE WORLD! Blackader: I have one thing to say to you.......... OH BOLLOCKS BALDRICK. What about a new gallery for pictures you might wish you never saw. That way all the twats in the world can do what I do if there is something on the telly I dont enjoy seing,(like the news!) I dony watch it. Post away jimboy.

"I dont like the idea of what they do, any more than the idea of golden rain or shitsex. BUT I DONT SHOUT IT OUT TO THE WORLD!" Until now, anyway.

heh heh...maybe you should do something more wholesome, like 2 catholic priests taking a young boy out for a walk. OK my turn on the soapbox. Don't mind the pic personally think it has some artistic faults which could be fixed, but that's another story. My only problem with this image is the blending of overt sexuality and children. Don't care much whether it's Homo/Hetro/Omni/Bi/Uni or whatever sexual, just not comfortable with the bulging crotches, and hot pants, combined with the image of a seemingly naked young child. Both these guys are constructed as sexualiy alluring, hypersexual images meant to arouse the veiwer. Really don't think a kid belongs in the same picture. that's my two cents. IMHO Jon

Spratman I'm gay..... well, bi, I guess, don't give a damn might be a better description, and I don't see anything overtly sexual in this pic. Where is it??? Bulging crotches - yes, guys' crotches bulge, this is because they have dicks. And they wear shorts, well, I would guess because the weather's hot. OT, here in the UK, a pair of shorts can last you years, we have about two weeks a year when you feel it's warm enough to wear em...... I can't speak for what Jim intended, but I didn't see these guys as being meant to arouse me, and I can tell you, it doesn't take much ;D They're just two guys out with a kid, okay, maybe someone would look and find one or both of them attractive,but that's the same with any image, surely? Alex