Quite a lot of you are familiar with the fact that I've left Poserworld since end last October. The majority though and newbies definately have no idea and take as a standard what they read in public display.. I wish to apologize before hand for bringing this question of mine to this forum, but unfortunately I have first hand experience how relevant posts get immediately deleted in the private Poserworld forum by Allen , the site administrator.. For a whole month after I left, till a few days back, the Poserworld Front Page was displaying the message "Textures by Renapd and Vikki". Since all we've seen of the new texturer ever since I left are a couple of textures so far, I kindly asked administration to clarify the fact that the hundreads of textures available at PW were not created by both of us, as that statement was implying, neither was I working there any longer which was another misleading assumption anybody might conclude to from the very same statement. My rightful request message was deleted as "inappropriate content" from the PW private forum. Next day it was replaced by the following new statement: TEXTURES BY VIKKI DAWSON (previously posted by rena) - not even renapd my full web name.. I wish your fair and honest opinion to this, as with my own english knowledge I read the new statement somehow like this.. That textures were created by Vikki Dawson but somehow Rena was posting them up to then... is that right? Is this the english meaning of the statement syntax the way it looks to me, or just a language barrier of just my very own problem? Do I read things that are not there or am I interpeting the meaning and syntax of the words right??? I would most certainly appreciate your feedback and how YOU would read this if you were not aware of the facts, or were someone first associated with poser and the site (newbie).. thank you in advance for all kind of clarification you may provide as I sure need it to sort out this! Rena PS : In my deleted by Allen post, I had suggested for the statement to change to "Textures by renapd up to October2002, by Vikki Dawson ever since" as being perfectly accurate and crystal clear to new and old users.. but despite all, please take a note that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Steve Shanks - as the specific statement in question is NO responsibility or jurisdiction of his at all!!

I don't know whether it's mockery or the language barrier, but I can definitely see your point. (Previously posted by rena) sounds like you simply posted them but didn't create them. I think it would be much better and much more fair to do it like you suggested (Textures by renapd up to October2002 etc)

I agree....it does sound as if you were posting someone else's textures and not the creator of them. Your version makes more sense, and honors the work that you have done (which is truly amazing). This seems like poor judgment on the administrator's part...a lot of us think very highly of you and want your creativity acknowledged.

Rena, it would have been far, far simpler for PW to have indicated that Textures up to Oct of 2002 created by Renapd, after that they could word it as they wished. Someone is being obstinate and it is unfortunate because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth with how you have been dealt with, from a site that has given us superior work in the past. C'mon PoserWorld, how hard would it be to do this as Renapd requests? :) Irene

By the way, the phrase is now: Textures by VIKKI DAWSON (and previously posted textures by Rena) Not much better.

Rena, you should also take a look at their copyright notice which reads: "Copyright (c) 2001, GMP Services, Inc, Steve Shanks, Renapd, All Rights reserved" You might want that updated. I saw this on the bottom of their subscription page. :) Irene

One good outcome of this could be that at this point you could probably suggest to them what it is you would like it to say. I am usually one to think that folks do mean well, and that it was even changed in the first place does seem to support that - it's possible that the ambiguity was really not intentional. Happens :) Why not at this point send them a snippet of what you would like it to read, and see if they go along with that? Good luck renapd! - Suede

I agree fully with what is said above. Rena's suggested wording is the most appropriate. The one on the site does not make any sense to me, regardless of the intended meaning with it. I'm sure Vikky does an excellent job as the new texture creator, but since Rena is a well known and respected artist in this community, it should be in Poserworlds own interest to highlight the fact that her work is the major part of the content on the site. Apart from the fact that she has the right to be credited for her work under any conditions, of course!

That is right Irene for pages that include work of mine, but administration should create a NEW template since update22 to use from that point on with Vikki's name included. They should also remove my signature from the email notification of updates that is sent out to users..check out the one of the last big update you got.. my name is included same as on all pages that states on top "when steve and Rena announce an update... etc" Rena

It's really a shame rena that the site admin won't accomodate your wishes - especially since you were such a big part of making Poserworld the success that it is.

I read these statements just the way you do, Rena. I am not at all sure why PoserWorld Administration chose to post such inaccurate and misleading information. By all means the site should clearly state that you did all texturing prior to October 2002 and Vikki Dawson was texturer on later items. And yes, I did wonder about your name still being on the newsletter I receive from PoserWorld too. As a founding member of the whole site, I think you deserve a little more consideration. You worked yourself half to death for a very long time, supplying huge amounts of detailed, imaginative, superb textures. I think your contribution should be acknowledged in no uncertain terms. Kimberly

Hrrrrrrmmmmm... that's fascinating. Reads the same way to me Rena, and English [or at least American] is my native tongue even.

uh - oh ... ************* would most certainly appreciate your feedback and how YOU would read this if you were not aware of the facts, or were someone first associated with poser and the site (newbie). ************* Sorry - I tried - and I can't do that - I knew PW since when it was only Steve's site (and for free) and I knew Fairywoods ... I can't see that site from a newby-POV. I really hope they (well the other part of PW) will correct their statements - you're right - it's far away from being fair and right ... I'm not a natural english speaker but I DO understand when a phrase is wrong in it's meaning ... Good luck ... Schlabber (and if you need help - you know how to find me)

And the games continue.... :( Sorry to hear about this Rena, just yet another step in the game I guess. One can but hope that eventually these niggly little things will get resolved and you'll be able to relax and enjoy yourself for a while instead of having to fight for your rights all the time. Oh well, here's hoping at least this bit gets fixed. Take care.

Unfortunately, Textures by VIKKI DAWSON (and previously posted textures by Rena) is the most accurate statement, given the current state of PW. Vikki is the current texturing artist and should be acknowledged as such. The last-name issue... well, I'd talk to Steve about that, but privately. But IMHO, Rena's textures are in such a class by themselves that only the most blind couldn't tell whose was whose. Let it go, Rena. We who know your work recognize your artistry whether it's here or PoserStyle or wherever, and it won't take long for the newbies to figure it out as well.

You have a right to insist that this be clarified and YES your wording is both reasonable and accurate. Fight on. Q

I agree your work stands out and I would know it with or without a name. I only joinned Poseworld to get your textures. So I will not renew my membership. (((((((((Hug Rena))))))))

As a subscription service, since they still make money by promoting your products, I would think your wishes on how that product is advertised, including the phrasing of promotional statements, should be adopted by the administrator. Although they may not realize it, the revised wording still reads like a slap in the face.

I should hope that you still recieve compensation for their use of your work. If not have them remove it and if they wont get a lawyer. It sounds like you have been treated rather badly. Makes me never wont to do buisness with Poser World. You should start your own site Renapd.

No.. that's not so Cybermonk! I do still receive a small compensation for the textures on the site for one more year. It's not that which is worrying me, but rather that future members will be confused about who did what.. Besides, removing my textures would be just a move to destroy deliberately PW and that was definately not my intention ever! Those textures are useless without the original models so I can't be unreasonable! Further more.. Steve Shanks is still my best buddy up to this day and you don't do such things to friends in my own book! As for my differneces with Administration.. well, that's another story but no matter what, they can't affect me as bad as to betray and destroy relationships of a lifetime! So I had to sort this out straight and fair if you got that wrong impression! This is not my problem BUT the accuracy of information provided for present and future users! Rena

Ok Sorry Renapd its just that I knew that you had been involed with the site for so long and then all of a sudden you are out and not getting proper credit for your work. I just got the impression the whole site had turned on you. My bad. Well I can certainly see wanting to be credited for your work. Every item has a read me I assume. Get them to include your name in the ones you did as the texture creator. Just a thought. I'm sure you'll continue to contribute great things to the Poser/3d community I wish you luck and If I can help let me know.

As a budding texture artist who learned what power a texture holds from you, Rena, I try to put myself in your shoes and see your perspective and feelings on it. I would be a bit peeved if this happened to me. I also understand that these things happen and not usually out of malice. I would fight on, but soft words may prove best in this situation. It may have been just a wording error not intended to slight your past contributions.

Rena, I, too, read the PWFW texture statement as a slight against your work--whether intentional or not. As a subscriber to the site, I will really miss your work. I absolutely loved the Saloon Girl set. American English is my first language and it seems to me the most accurate way to post the statement to the page is as follows: Textures by Vikki Dawson (Textures posted prior to October 2002 created by Renapd [or your name--your preference should be used]) If any of your textures were posted in October than to could be changed to through. The current wording seems to indicate that the administrators of PWFW do not want to give you recognition for your copyrighted work. Renewal of my subscription will definitely depend on the quality of Vikki's textures. She has really big shoes to fill.

I agree Rena They should give you very clear and precise credit. You are one of the reasons people joined pwfw and you should recieve credit on what you have done. Not backhanded credit that makes it sound as if you were giving away this gal's textures.

You deserve even better. There should be an "ABOUT THE CREATORS" link on the home page. If you click on it, it should take you to bios of all of you. A FULL PAGE should be devoted to each creative contributor of Poserworld, i.e. YOU, Steve and Vicky, explaining very clearly who you are and what you've done. Maybe even a Q&A format, like the Merchant of the Month here at Renderosity. We should maybe even a picture of you. And it would be nice to know your real name. I'm always amazed at people, like yourself, who do amazing work and then get lost behind the obscurity of these odd screen names. I'm in the film and TV business. We have to fight for credit and recognition. At every step of the process, there's somebody ready to take your credit away. Unions have to fight to make sure that creators get credit for what they do. And then, after you get the credit, when you see the finished product on TV, your BARELY LEGIBLE name (in tiny print) gets squashed to the side of the TV screen at the end of the program while they run a promo for what's on next. Here in cyberspace, you have much more control over your credit. So, by all means, take it. P.S. I became a LIFETIME MEMBER over at Poserworld, largely based on your work, so I was REAL sorry to see you go. But it's still purchase that I don't regret ;-)

The statement seems a little ambiguous. It could mean that you previously posted textures which were really created by Vicki or it could mean that all the old textures were created by you. Of course how would anyone know where the old textures end and the new ones start. They should put a foot note on the images for the models saying who created the textures. Or at least on the ones you didn't created. That way proper credit would go to the right person. Kevin

You know the reason i try to avoid some threads is one thing can be said then the next thing world war 3 has started, everyone just jumps to conclusions about what happened what was said and who's pissed off who, usually i don't reply coz it makes no difference trying to explain.....then you get the folks who know a bit about what goes on but only from one source yet presume they know the whole story....then we have phrases like "fight" and "lawyer" .....now please don't read this as a dig against Rena, its not her, statement about our friendship stands from my point of view as well, i'm having a gripe against folks hanging me high by the neck without knowing why....Turtle please don't take this as personal its more a public statement i want to make to a few folks ;o)..."do the models make them selves? ;o) ".....anyway may have made myself look bad here thats up to you to decide (see above statement ;o)....hope ya don't mind me butting in marrow couldn't help myself :o)........Steve

Nothing odd about it Mikes i was late in from work and just logged on.......Steve

Because I don't have a subscription to PoserWorld, it's not appropriate for me to voice my opinion, however, I will anyway. Many of us have been doing websuite design work before we found Poser...and some of us are incorporating our design work from Poser back to websets. Without the use of excellent models and texturing, many of us would be cast adrift until we learn the mechanics of texturing for ourselves. But back in those early days many of us had our work stolen or resold or even reposted on others websites stating that they had created the imagery. The fight has not gone away from many of us because of the early abuse that happened, so when someone is not given credit where credit is due, it causes us to get a bit riled. It could be simpled modified on the site to say: October 02 - Present Textures by Vickie Dawson xxxx (whatever the date - October 02 Textures by Renapd As each file should have a readme file it would list the creators of the individual items. ...stepping off of soapbox now.

Nope Steve, the models don't make themselves. No texture artist can survive without great models to texture. I think the issue is credit for the textures, which bring good modeling to life. I understand Rena's being upset, I also understand that It may not have been intentional to upset her.

It doesn't just bother Rena, it bothers me as well, as concerns whether or not I recommend the site to others. I've been waiting to see an example of Vikki's textures, I've not seen much. And what I've seen, I've not been sure was hers. I was expecting the first example to be loudly and prominently displayed, with trumpets. Still waiting. Whoever has the administrator's ear, better tell hiim God is in the details. Do those correctly and respectfully and everything comes out right. Emily

Rena I have to agree that your work should be clearly defined as yours and the new person should have her work clearly defined. What if the shoe were on the other foot? Marque

Hi everyone. I'm new here and I really don't like to get involved in these types of threads however, since I'm a topic of discussion I thought I'd jump in here for a minute. First off, I have altered the text at Poserworld to read Textures by Vikki Dawson Textures posted prior to November 1, 2002 by Renapd The readme file states specifically Poserworld and Fairywoods in all the textures that Rena did and I would expect that the textures I do will say Poserworld and Vikki Dawson. Hopefully the change of text on the front page of Poserworld and the readme files can solve some of the issues you've been talking about here. Second, I would like to mention that prior to accepting this work, I had committments that I had to take care of before going to work for PoserWorld hence, very little from me so far. However, my committments are almost filled and you will be seeing quite a bit coming from me here real soon. ;-) I don't expect that I can compete with the wonderful work that Rena has done but I'll strive to do my very best to keep up the type of quality textures you are accustomed to. Meantime, I don't like or want to get involved in the issues that don't involve me so I'll leave the rest up to you all. :-) Thanks for listening. Vikki

Thank you, Vikki. I think that helps. Rena has many friends (including virtual ones like me) on this forum and we just wanted to make sure her work was well represented. I am looking forward to your work...PoserWorld has a high standard and I've enjoyed my subscription so far, and hope to continue to do so.

yikes

AlbertoFly, I'm not one of Rena's circle of friends. I respect her work, and that's the extent of it, but putting myself in her shoes, I can understand her concerns. I also appreciate Vikki's response. It restores my faith in the community. It's a good example case for us all to learn from. I don't see what is to get upset about as to warrant your kind of response.

This was a reasonable request from a reasonable person. And Viki's response. it seems to me is reasonable, sensitive and should put an end to this unfortunate situation. I don't see why people should now try to re-ignite it. It's over. Don't stoke it.

AlbertoFly. Was that really called for? I too understand her concerns and I don't know her from Adam. Anyway, it seems like its on the road to resolution now.

AlbertoFly, by the way, has no gallery on Renderosity that I can see, which makes me suspect this fly on the wall may be just another troublemaking fly by night.

It doesn't seem like an intentional slight to me. I thought it was just awkward wording when I saw it on PoserWorld. As for calling her Rena instead of her full name, most of us recognize her as Rena or RenaPD. It's not like the site says, "Old textures done by some hack." I don't know the background of why Rena left, and really it's none of my business. Both Rena and Steve seem like very nice people and I think we should give both of them the benefit of the doubt. Cheers!

well, the magic, created by renapd and steve....because a good modeller and an excellent texturer should be a match made in one of vicki's temple versions of heaven to me is what was special about pwfw. vickki has a damned hard act to follow. actually, i don't know what deal was entered into on the textures, in the beginning, but, if i had been credited so shabbily, i would have done my best to pull my textures...had i been in renapd's place. all's well that end's well, though, right?

dialyn: AlbertoFly, by the way, has no gallery on Renderosity that I can see, which makes me suspect this fly on the wall may be just another troublemaking fly by night. Oh Albertofly is slightly more than that, they're someone else entirely but I'm not allowed to say who. :)

This has been an epic day of think and double think here at Rederosity Land.

One thing that should be done in my opinion is that your name should appear on all textures that were created by you. In this manner your work would always be Known as yours, i checked through quite a few of your earlier textures and did not see your name anywhere on them. I would if i were you , request that you as creator have a signature on each of your creations.

Oh well, I don't think I'll renew my subscription Rena...hey, one good turn deserves another right? eg

If any of you have some of the early textures that Symphony created for DAZ you will see a nice little copyright notice on the jpg texture file. It shouldn't be hard for anyone doing the texturing to add that on to their work.

AlbertoFly's comment has been deleted as a personal attack. We do not tolerate that sort of behavior here. Sorry Rena :(

Lyrra.. no problem! Quite the contrary! Thank you a bunch I never got a chance to read his reply as I can imagine what it would be.. same kind of treatment he's given me since early October! :) AlbertoFly happens to be my true rival you see and the reason I left PW..he's Allen under disguish, PW's administrator. You're a moderator and have the means, check his IP address, don't be surprised to find out it's one assigned to PW... I thank Vikki for taking the time to correct his own personal little games of spike... she's aware of the whole background and earlier correspondance and I 'm not the type that attacks unless she's been slapped first! And I've been slapped more than once and too hard before and she knows it.. All I wish is to go on in peace as I deserve to! If "AlbertoFly" bothers me EVER again with any of his little games he enjoys so much.. he can be sure that next time.. I will not hesitate to say in PUBLIC the whole story, as it seems to be the only audience he values enough to do what he would always have done from the very start..period! Rena

Queri, i understand what your saying but to do that would have been foolish IMHO, how could i have shown one of Vikkis textures soon after losing one of the best poser texturers and shout out loud about it...i'm not saying Vikki isn't good what i'm saying is we can't replace Rena or expect Vikki to produce textures the way Rena did, what we can expect is textures in Vikkis style..not to mention the fact that it would have been insensitive...Now i was in no doubt that Rena leaving would lose us some members, i'd have been foolish to think otherwise, but i was naive (some may call it arrogent) enough to think that folks would realise that we have to move on and the site would work around the situation and pull together to make everything work as well as it did before, like i said we couldn't replace Rena so we haven't tryed, we head in a new direction (for want of a better expression), again i was naive enough to think folks would realise this and see my commitment, but lots just see what they want to see and we end up with threads like this and comments like folks taking sides....Well all i ever wanted to do was make models, i never wanted to end up being in politics and and i hate being piggy in the middle and i certainly don't want to be stressed out with threads like this....Steve

Steve.. I can fully understand your feelings since you were caught in the middle of this without any personal responsibility.. same as you know MY feelings and why I had to post this here since no other way would bring a reasonable outcome of my request! ;( All I have to say is that IF ONLY my second EX-partner thought HALF the way you do.. we would never ever reach to this or any other problems.. I think that says it all! Sorry buddy! :( Rena