Cyberstretch, take a breath. It's sunday. That means DefaultGuy and Nosfiratuu are posting in their spare time.

No personal vendetta, just stating opinions - take 'em or leave 'em; not forcing anyone to see things my way. Last I knew, forums were used for discussions. I have P4PP and was unaware that this is now the "Poser 5 only" forum. Perhaps if you could direct me to the Poser 4 forum, it would be more appropriate? Responding to people during the course of a discussion is not a personal vendetta either. It is called "Common Courtesy".

well said Jcleaver! @DefaultGuy: thank you very much for posting this little tutorial ... that one helps me to understand FireFly better Chris

Noo... Cyber didn't. I brought up a question of established site policy, and Cyber expanded on it wit hlinks and past examples. Not doing your job for you Lyrra. Feel free to do it. I'm observing on selective application of site/forum policy. You can always feel free to be selective, but when next you boot a render/promo by a vendor to products showcase and send them an IM why you did... you're sending an observable message that some animals are more equal than others, to borrow an Orwellianism. "Welcome to the Product Showcase Forum. The Showcase Forum and Gallery are intended for all commercial related postings within our community. This is a highlight area where our membership is invited to review in greater detail the various art products, software and resource site subscriptions available for purchase." And yeah, Tirsajdyn, I can name the nicks of most of the CL employees member here. And the nicks of most of the members of other sites and companies who are members here. So what?

Chris , As I said, I was only offering my opinion, others - as is their right - responded to it and set the thread aflame. Since my original post, I am merely answering people who have directed statements and/or questions toward me. I did not call for Anthony to remove the images, I just questioned his motivations knowing that he is a CL employee and that there was virtually no substance to his posts other that the renders and title of the post. A simple post clarifying would have sufficed rather than a lambasting of someone sharing their opinion. I am not mad, angry, etc. Just trying to ensure that everyone gets treated equally. I was brought up to be a free thinking individual and question everything. I guess doing so is being a troublemaker or suggestive that I am a one man "Rambo" army trying to personally sink CL. I guess any post that questions CL or anything surrounding them is instantly a "personal vendetta"?

Rediculous reductionism!!! I already own Poser 5. What's he trying to sell me? Why should I go to the showcase forum to view tips and tutorials? BULLSHIT!

hmmm ... if I have understand something wrong ... so sorry :/ (I have to fight against a language barriere here ... :) ) Chris

Chris, It is ok. I think others before you took this way out of proportion from the way it was intended.

just curious, please interpet that in no way to mean curious labs as I am no way affiliated with them, but what is considered an acceptable post in this forum? I didn't see it as an add for "software X" any more than any post made by nonemployees showing a render and stating what new feature they used to achive the result. if you remove ALL the advertising, then posts that happen to state that they used so-and-sos texture would have to be moved, and if they didn't state they used so-and-sos texture, someone would pop up and accuse them of trying to pass it off as their own work. it's time to relax people, the mods are very capable of moving threads to the correct forum if they feel it's in the wrong place

So this doesn't get lost in the mish mosh, For more technical information, please go to the Bugs forum. I posted there yesterday in repsonse to the following user issue http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12440&Form.ShowMessage=990485&Reply=990581#10 Thanks for your continued support, -Brian

Well, if nothing else good comes out of this interchange, at least DefaultGuy is responding in the Beta Forum as well; even though it is a Sunday.

BTW, that was meant as a COMPLIMENT, just so people do not misconstrue it as a slam.

:) Actually, I should be going now. My two-year old son is tugging at my arm. Be well, -Brian

Thanks CyberStretch and all who have participated in this thread, -DefaultGuy

"Glad you clarified that...it came dangrously close to reading like a snide comment after all else that you had posted here." Well, that is one of the major problems with written communications (ie, people reading - or reading into - them differently than the way they were written); which I think contributed a lot to the problems in the thread. Oh well, life goes on...

"The credits for it go to Brian." I thought Anthony said the images were his? "I had a couple renders I was pretty proud of. Wanted to show them off. That's all." "Rediculous reductionism!!! I already own Poser 5. What's he trying to sell me? Why should I go to the showcase forum to view tips and tutorials? BULLSHIT! " Yes it is ridiculous. You wouldn't go to the showcase forum for tips and tutorials - but then this thread never started as a tip or tutorial, default guy started offering ideas - but that wasn't the topic here. People asked Anthony questions regarding render times and such and he didn't even answer them - so he never intended this to be a "learning thread". Default Guy answered instead.. Therefore by the standareds of the rules for this forum it didn't belong here - remember - this is a forum only for learning and non-learning posts may be moved. Which is what they claimed when they moved several anti-P5 threads. Speaking out against P5 in favor of P4 is just as "poser oriented" as promoting it. But then again this is 'rosity which means the rules never have applied evenly. Doesn't matter what any company does at any other forum - such as PP, those sites have different rules - 'rosity has stated this forum is for learning only and all commercial images go in the Product showcase. Other sites would allow this image in the Poser forum I know I would, but then it's not against my stated rule - or those at PP.

"But then again this is 'rosity which means the rules never have applied evenly." And therein lies the problem.

eitherway, Defaultguy, Nosfiratu, Lawndartlawndart, and even kupa are members of renderosity...as I see they can post renders of what they have done just like anyone else. unless you sit on your ass all day staring at the forums it is almost impossible to answer every post.

I never thought a test render would cause so much grief. I'm truly sorry that it got posted. I really need to go and spend time with my toddler. Here's where the original test render started: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12440&Form.ShowMessage=990485&Reply=990581#10 Be well, -Brian

Ah. Missed that one, apologies Tyger: a lot of posts to scroll through. ;] "Sorry Ironbear. My fingers didn't fly as fast as my temper on this post. No hard feelings. Thanks for understanding. " No problems. And you didn't need to apologise, no hard feelings. [I never take this stuff personally kiddo ;)] I apologised to Anthony for the mess because he got caught in the crossfire on an observation on stated forum policy consistency here, and I didn't mean that to sound like he should remove the renders. He took it that way and did, and I could see why he read it that way when I reread it. Now, Anthony, DefaultGuy, and a lot of other people can take any remark I make as being critical to CL, and I can't gainsay them effectively, because I have been critical. But I hope that at least Anthony knows that when I mean for it to be directly critical to him - I'll say so straight out: I am not subtle. I trust that in spite of differences of opinion, he knows me that well by now from observation at least. Hence the apology to him - if I'd intended to quarrel with Anthony, I'd have done so straight up, no faffing around. shrug Miscommunications in the context.

Pfth!

"unless you sit on your ass all day staring at the forums it is almost impossible to answer every post." Well, considering the Beta Forum was created to foster communication between CL and the testers, I would hope that they would at least go through one forum and answer people's posts. Anyway, I think this has been hashed over enough. An advanced apology to anyone who may ask a question or direct a comment my way. I will, most likely, refrain from posting in this thread again. No hard feelings...

Thanks Tirjasdyn and all who have participated in this thread, -DefaultGuy...(and son)

Once more :) So this doesn't get lost in the mish mosh for those who need it: For more technical information, please go to the Bugs forum. I posted there yesterday in repsonse to the following user issue http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12440&Form.ShowMessage=990485&Reply=990581#10 Thanks for your continued support, -Brian

And this site is Renderosity which means that malicious behavior is tolerated until good constructive enthusiastic people pull their work or leave. Ironbear and CyberStretch... we know your agendas. You hate CuriousLabs and hate the program. Why don't you stop attacking it at each and every opportunity and go do something useful? As for Anthony not responding... he posted the images after midnight west coast time. I suspect that when he logged on this morning he was pretty darned hurt by the sniping. Why else delete them? So we the people in this forum all lose seeing what other artists do in their precious free time because of a couple of carping mudmouths who have no intention of using the program. Well, those of us who do want to use the software NEED to see what can be done. Carolly

"Ironbear and CyberStretch... we know your agendas. You hate CuriousLabs and hate the program. Why don't you stop attacking it at each and every opportunity and go do something useful?" I am so glad that you can tell me the way I feel or what my agenda is, especially when I assisted CL not that long ago, (on my own time), without any personal gain whatsoever. There is a certain problem with assumptions, and I am sure you know where that leads us...

Welll... at least we know where we stand respectively, Carolly. ;] Carping Mudmouths on one side and CL Apologists on the other. ;]

Well said Carolly, I agree absolutely.

I for one own Poser 5 and would appreciate ANY and ALL tips I get. Marque

To me it is a shame that Anthony and others are harassed because of all this silliness. My view is that this is the Poser Forum so anything related to Poser should be allowed, whether it is advertising, images, tutorials, etc. Just as there are those who complain the site is too commercial, there are those who are aggravated by the anti-commercial posts inundating this forum. Why should you be allowed to complain in this forum about too much commercialism if I can't post an ad and visa versa. If merchants must be herded off to the Product Showcase Forum, then why not herd all complainers off to their special forum, people wanting to learn to the Technical Forum, people wanting to post images to the Gallery. Then we can just get rid of the Poser Forum. :) Beth

Hmmm. I would think that folks would be glad that the folks who make the software they use would be glad they are accessible. (Excuse me Bill Gates is paging me in my messaging window HUGE HONKING WINK!) The only diff I see between CL and "other" vendors is that the other vendors NEED the CL app POSER verision-X for the use of their goods. I would think the other vendors would want POSER displayed so folks who lurk, have not decided to upgrade, waiting for a good excuse to make the plunge. From the reposted pics, and discussion of how they were generated, somebody somewhere would have LEARNED something. Is that not the purpose of the forum. Ah yes one other thing, despite the almost instantaneous nature of communications in our modern world some of us may wish to remember that there a over 6 billions people on the planet and we are just ONE of them. Nice pics dude!

The screenshot for this is posted at: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12440&Form.ShowMessage=990485&Reply=990581#10 -DefaultGuy and son

9 hours to render a 640x480 picture? Using a pretty decent computer, Sheez!, Imagine if you have to render a 300 frames animation? -which are 10 secs for NTSC TV animations-:) (personal note: not attacking/deffending anyone who participate on this treath, just was amuzed with the time required to do that picture).

00:09:22:09 9 minutes, 22 seconds and some change. Actually, it was 9 minutes, 17 seconds and very small change. No offense taken. Be well, -DefaultGuy and DefaultKid

"My God! Is that Michael in the first pic? Love the "sweaty" texture and facial/body morphs! Drooliscious!" Thanks for the info Anthony and Brian; who knew Don could look so good after a spin in the face room! Now that's a soulful brotha! Incidentally, how were the muscle morphs (or scaling?) for the body done? Keep up the good work; Cheers! Arendar

Hi Arendar, "Incidentally, how were the muscle morphs (or scaling?) for the body done?" I simply used the Full body morphs Muscle and Sculpting for Don Hi Res, morph dials found in the Body> Parameters palette. Pre: If you haven't patched the Poser 5 Figures, the Poser 5 Figures updater is a free download from the Curious Labs website (www.curiouslabs.com). 1. Load in Don Hi Res 2. Select the Body element 3. Go to the Parmeters palette (Shift + Ctrl + N) 4. Dial in the Full Body Muscle and Sculpting morphs -Brian

Thanks Arendar and all who have participated in this thread, For more technical information, please go to the Bugs forum. I posted there yesterday in repsonse to the following user issue http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12440&Form.ShowMessage=990485&Reply=990581#10 Thanks for your continued support, -DefaultGuy...(and sleepy headed little boy)

Thanks again Brian; as you may have guessed, I've held off patching my "vanilla" install of P5 until "the dust settles". Will definitely try out Don's FBMs later!

0_0 OMG!!!

I can't believe that only took you about 10 min. Looks like I need to start a topic on render settings... Tried rendering an image a couple days ago @ 3300 x 2500 x 300dpi. 10 hrs later, it was still only adding objects... Think I'll give it another shot now with lower settings (my images seem to be to dark these day to turn out on a printer anyways).

Love the sweat effect. Ironicly, the image that I tried rendering had sweat in it. Didn't turn out that good, though. I'll have to give it another go now that I've seen your method.

Hair as grass, eh? Tried that a while ago. Ended up taking a flat plane, and using displacements to creat a grass effect. I recall it turned out rather well (for short grass). Let me see if I can dig up the material settings again.

Thanks for the info!
~DM

CyberStretch wrote:
I thought that advertising/marketing were not allowed in the fora?

Ironbear wrote:
I'm saying if it applies to one member posting an ad here, it should apply to all... Advertising is advertising.

Odd that you guys didn't express these opinions when this was posted:
http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=970361

And, gosh, it wasn't even about Poser.

Who can spell "agenda". ;-)

"Agenda A-G-E-N-D-A Agenda" ;] I didn't post into that one at all IIRC [didn't see me there when I scrolled through]. I responded in the one at PoserPros. Doan sweat it PJ - I'll probably find occassion to slam Dan Farr or Chadly on something involved with their release before it's done. ;]

Um, PJF, unless you missed it or have not heard, DAZ Studio has not even hit beta yet. How can you advertise for something that is not commercially available yet and still well withinthe realms of development?

And, that post was in response to various sundry posts here claiming that DAZ's application was "vaporware". Hardly the same motivations.

This is all "academic" now anyway, since R'osity sanctioned the posts, just as they did in the post PJF pointed out (Same Mod too):

"98. Re: DAZ Studio by Lyrra on 11/23/02 05:08
...
Non poser related? it uses poser stuff doesn't it? that's vicki 3 in there, right? I think it's closer to topic than some of the posts I've seen today :)"

AFAIC, I received my answer when Lyrra made it clear that R'osity does not view this as an "advertisement". Whether I agree or not is immaterial. Just expect more of the same when other Merchants/Vendors claim they are "only showing off Poser's potential" by displaying their MP items in a forum.

Rolling eyes give us some credit CyberStretch Don't lump the merchants here with your problem. Okay? We don't advertise in the forums. and we catch each other if we see one of us doing it. This whole topic is stupid and i won't beg your pardon or anyone elses for saying so. Anthony has posted props and images before, and there was absolutely NO REASON Why he shouldn't now. Just because he works for CL does not mean he cannot post his own work with the program There was no reason FOR ANYONE to slam him. No matter how any of us feel about other side issues

"Don't lump the merchants here with your problem. Okay? We don't advertise in the forums. and we catch each other if we see one of us doing it." Was this not the very same reason why the Product Showcase Forum/Gallery was instituted in the first place? Because the Merchant were posting ads in the fora? That was my only link to the merchants, so please keep it in context. Likewise, it is not my problem as I seem to be the one who has accepted that the Mods have the say and left it at that. It seems others are less willing to "let it go", not me.

raising eyebrow and that was a while back and yes exactly why the Product showcase forum was made.. And your point is?? No it wasn't the only link to the merchants.. You said...Just expect more of the same when other Merchants/Vendors claim they are "only showing off Poser's potential" by displaying their MP items in a forum. So you are implying that we will do this simply because you believe this thread is advertising. So maybe you should "keep it in context." There was absolutely no need to slam the merchants. We keep to the rules. And no matter what the reason was that the PSF was created it was a while ago and has no basis for current topics.