I ran across todo's Plains indian...he's wonderful. I also saw the hair for the female..but no model..is she still available by chance and where would I be able to get her? Also ..any chance of a canoe, paddle,teepee and..ummm...a buffalo?..lol Thanks all your marvelous...and yes..my renders are coming..hehe...still working on the morphs and stuff tho...still lousy..hehe VelvetRose

Heya Velvet Rose, As far as I know there isn't an actual female indian figure. You could probably make one in no time by choosing the model you wish to use and tweaking it's features to how you want them with morphs then try darkening a female texture in a paint program and then applying it to the model. As for the canoe and other models try the propsguild, 3d cafe and Avalon Mesh Archive. Hope this helps a little. Regards Eshal

It does help Eshal, Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post:)

Yes please! A canoe & paddle would be pretty cool. If no one has seen one around, perhaps one of you modeler types would please take pity on us 3D impared types and give it a shot sometime.

Plains People and canoes is sort of like leiderhosen on a Spaniard. The Plains are a desert. There is not much out there to make a canoe from. If they used watercraft, it probably was made from skin stretched over a wicker frame. In any case, it was not central to their culture. I do not care for PC, but since our forefathers wiped out 98% of all these people and we are prospering quite well at their expense, the least we can do is not trivialize what little we know of their cultures. Get a copy of: The American Plains Indians - Osprey Men-At-Arms Series #163, to get a slight taste of their costumes in the 1800's.

Jaager, I think Velvet Rose and Nance were refering to canoes, teepee's etc as a general want for possible props to use in Native American Themed pics and not really ones dealing totally with the Plains Tribes. I think your book suggestion is a good one and when used along with any photographic material By Edward S Curtis who spent a total of 30 years photographing various North American Indian tribes. These pictures show excellent examples of facial traits as well as clothing types which are fantastic for using as references for model/character work. Regards Eshal

...And barbarian warriors probably did not wear chain mesh bikini's. Sheesh!

Jaager. there was no need for that arrogant remark. Somewhere I have a canoe and paddles. I shall email them to someone who has a download site. Siegbert

I knew I had them somewhere. As I keep any ReadMe's as reference, I also have the URL http://amber.rc.arizona.edu/modeling.html Here you will find a canoe and oars. Happy modeling (greetings, Nance) HTH Siegbert :)

Thank you sieghert for the canoe and paddles, thier wonderful. Not to be rude, I would like to make a point if I may. I requested the canoe and buffalo NOT as part of a render for the plains Indian, but merely for other works. I AM a native American indian myself and very well aware of my heritage and that of many other tribes in variuos regions of this country.I have throughly studied and written about The daily lives of the Chickasaw/Cherokee tribes in the Southern U.S. Perhaps you are familiar with The Natchez Trace? The plains Indians were a nomadic tribe that were not indigenous to the desert. They wandered the greater part of central america because they relied on the herds of buffalo for thier existence and therefore would follow the herds migratory paths across the plains. oops..I tend to prattle on ..sorry about that.All I'm saying is..I thought the model of the Plains Indain was wonderful and was hoping that he had a mate, as far as clothing goes..I have pictures of alot of various tribal outfits and I personally still work at creating dreamwebs and Mandella's much as my ancestors did. Thanks for the many kind remarks from nance and others. Happy creating;)

Hey, I know it's not really a buffalo, but it sure looks pretty similar. Check out the Zebus that just got posted at PoserWorld.

Point taken, Velvet. At least you will know something about what you are presenting. There is no indication of this in your first post. The juxaposition of your prop requests formed an image of the SOS that I grew up with. A desert is defined by average annual rainfall. If the Great Plains of North America do not precisely meet that definition - they come pretty close. It was also called the Great American Desert. Until the introduction of the horse from the Spaniards, no one went out there very far. I am aware of some of the history the Southeastern tribes, including what Andrew Jackson & Co. did for them and the extrordinary efforts they made to avoid their fate. Siegbert - if saying, that it is time to let up, is an arrogant remark: guilty - I am not an outsider in this issue.

LOL! TouchVelvet! This one gets filed away in the "Great Internet Stories" file. I know Jagger had the best of intentions, but this reminds me of the scene in Annie Hall where Woody Allen gets fed up with the opinionated guy in the movie line and pulls the real Marshell Mcluhan into the scene from off camera. I guess sometimes real life can be like that after all. (Friendly apologies for the jab Jagger, but you gotta admit that this was rich!) And thanks (once again) for the URL for the canoe & paddles Siegbert! (Still working up the nerve to try your other tip... :-0 )

Jagger....I think you and i have much in common..I would love to share stories with you, the history of Indians has been a passion of mine ( not because I happen to be one...LOL) and you seem very versed in the subject..my apologies for being brusk with you...you are right about the plains AND the canoe..hehe..pleasant rendering my friend and hope to see more of your work in the future. Thanks Nance...sometimes ya got it..some times ya dont...lolI'm gonna go check out a buffalo and see what changes I acn make to get the critter to fit what i need him for:) VR

Debra Ross had a nice buffalo for sale at Bbay, can't find where it's located now. Also couldn't find any race of people that wasn't inhuman at some point in time.

Yeah, History is a lot like sausage, you don't want to know what really went into it, but you probably ought to. Velvet, I will run up my true colors and state what haunts me about this - the Peoples here pre-1500 had been for as long as 30,000 years or more and given their ethic could have been for another 30,000 if left alone. When you look at what we Germanic invaders have done in less than 200 years and project that path... I would not bet on another 100 without some serious bill coming due. I think on many levels, they had it about right and fairly well optimized. When I see the stories by and about the decendants of those people, I sense that this ethic still pulls at them, and we have made it impossible to follow it. I am projecting but, I would find it difficult to adapt to a new culture if some part of me knew it to be insane.

That is so true..and very perceptive on your part...that is why so many have held for so long to thier native customs and traditions.It is a great tragedy to see any people pulled from thier homes..and my people certainly were'nt nor will be the last. The important thing I believe imho is it's more important as a race of people to hold on to your traditons and customs and remember them with pride and reverance. This doesnt make one a weak race. If the gods ordained it...than it was meant to be. There is no disgrace in this. many people still hold thier heads high with dignity without shame...and bear others no greater will than that they should one day see that the land belongs to no man....we are merely the caretakers. a little saying if I may..." should our children suffer the wages of sin, brought about by thier forefathers?" well..I think perhaps we should take this discussion outside the forum..lol..unless we start talking about American Indian bead techniques..lol..oh wait..I believe THAT'S another forum also..hehe. VelvetRose

Strange, I sent this but the thread linkage did not register it. I shall try again. Velvet, I have a freeware buffalo somewhere on my CD's. It is a non-posable Buffalo in Bryce OBP format. Unfortunately, I no longer have the URL ( it was soooo long ago ). I shall e-mail it to you if you send me a privvy-email on where to send it. Jaager. Point taken. Apparently, your knowledge and experience on matters of American Culture is way beyond my horizon. My personal education on europian history (Germany, in particular), has a hostile tinge embedded within. Nothing to be proud of. So I wish to apologise to you. I took Velvet's request at face value, because this is a Poser Forum where fantasy rules. It does not really matter why Velvet wanted the said items. Although, now that we know the thoughts behind Velvet's request, it does make things more interesting. Keep well (All) Siegbert :)

Velvet, if you want the Buffalo in 3DS format (Hide, Horns, Mouth, Eyes, Feet, Tail and Mane), I have it now as a zip file (238 KB's) and am willing to email it to you if you wish. The original mesh is NOT mine ( I just converted from OBP to 3DS and made it multi-layer), but I do remember that there were no restrictions on redeveloping and redistribution of the Buffalo mesh. Siegbert

You know, I find the discussion about race relations and history fascinating but not really appropriate for this specific board; maybe you two could move it down to Complaint & Debate or the Virtual Tavern? I'd love to follow it, but it doesn't seem to have any (further) relevance to Poser... ;-)

I too was fascinated by the Plains Indian debate as I worked a summer at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody Wyoming (and lived in the area around 10 years) The Plains Indian Musium there is well worth a trip to see for both of you. I recall a heady debate in the mid sixties when some Boy Scouts found the mumified remains of a 2000 year old Indian about 5 miles from the East Gate of yellowstone. The remains of the poor fellow was displayed for several years in the center, but through the efforts of the Native American Council it is now in a vault under the center. You might want to look up the center for further research, it's a great resource. Boni