Renderosity Forums / Poser - OFFICIAL
Welcome to the Poser - OFFICIAL Forum
Forum Coordinators: RedPhantom
Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Jul 19 11:16 am)
Subject: semi-OT - What others are saying about Vista elsewhere
- 1
- 2
Been using it about 6 weeks or so now, I'm reasonably happy with it, lots of stuff running in the background with it and still feeling my way as to what I can or can't switch off.
Poser 6 and 7 are running fine on it and so is Vue6Inf and CS3.
I have an issue with tool tips not showing in Vue but I can't say what is causing that at this time!
Overall I don't find Vista that much different to XP once you switch some of the more superfluous things off like the side bar for instance, totally unneccesary bit of dross IMO!
Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.
I hope e-frontier comes out with a pure Linux version before XP support runs out. For me (and a whole lot of other people outside of US) Vista is a no-no as long as I wish to be the one and only owner of my computer. And the only one able to use my credit card, for example. Vista still has some risky security holes, especially for people not interested in security aspects (a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).
Beside of Poser I havn't any use of Windows (maybe because I don't do gaming). Linux runs mutch faster and smother with the same machine here. Even with a 3D desktop with some bells and wistles (another thing nobody really needs - better driver support is mutch more important for any OS).
Retailers here have been clobbered by the slow take up rate of VIsta. Last week The Register ran a feature about it.
It's no news that Microsloth have decided to make XP available for a while longer.
Buying version 1.0 of anything is asking for trouble.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Quote - I hope e-frontier comes out with a pure Linux version before XP support runs out. For me (and a whole lot of other people outside of US) Vista is a no-no as long as I wish to be the one and only owner of my computer. And the only one able to use my credit card, for example. Vista still has some risky security holes, especially for people not interested in security aspects (a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).
Beside of Poser I havn't any use of Windows (maybe because I don't do gaming). Linux runs mutch faster and smother with the same machine here. Even with a 3D desktop with some bells and wistles (another thing nobody really needs - better driver support is mutch more important for any OS).
Yup about all that Vista stuff you said and Linux is faster on my PC also. 
e-f can we have a native Linux running Poser now pweeeease. 
With a native Linux running Poser it would all be perfect. 
My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things
Well my only experience so far with Vista is my bother's new PC which still refuses to see any XP machine on the network. Last week it suddenly decided he didn't have permission to view his own "My Documents" directory along with a few others so I had to learn how to go retake ownership of those directories for him. Not difficult with Google but I still haven't googled a clear fix for his networking issues.
Quote - *(a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).
one comment.
Bovine Excrement.
Agreed. In all the years I've used Windows machines, the only time I ever got a virus or otherwise had my security breached was when I deliberately let it happen. Yes, deliberately. It's a long story. :)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Quote - I dunno, I use vista and I think it's great. I have less crashes now than I did with Xp and all my workflows run very smoothly. my renders even come out much faster 1/2 the time of Xp.
my system is only scored at a 2.5 for windows experience index.
Less crashes? Never had a crash with XP. I've had applications go bugfuck on me, hardware roll over and die but the OS has always been stable.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
I'm in a strange position. Been studying Vista online (about the 6th course so far), and it's got some good, some bad..it seems a bit intrusive in spots (lots of ties directly to MS for gadgets, etc)
I know someone who has Vista, and I've seen it in use, but aside from some bells and whistles (transparent 'windows'? ok...;) it's just another OS. In fact, until I got the @#$% automatic update turned off for Win 2k (a line in an ini file somewhere..;), some of the same features were starting to creep into that...
It's a non-issue for me right now, because my 5-year-old PC doesn't have the cojones to even boto the sucker (15gig needed for the OS? Is that code bloat or what?..;)
There are always those who have to puff themselves up with the latest thing, and disparage anyone who doesn't. I remember the original comments up above could have been said about
Poser 5, Vicky4, etc..;) If I went to Vista (and bought a new computer, which is what it would take..;) it would be my (lessee...Dos 2.1.,3.1.,5, ....carry the nine...11th operating system I've used...not counting Linux...;) I agree with the dreaded 'point oh' bit, and I can wait until the bugs are worked out..;)
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
I found a seller on Amazon who carries it.
If you have a MSDN subscription, it is still online and you can download it there.
Quote - For me (and a whole lot of other people outside of US) Vista is a no-no as long as I wish to be the one and only owner of my computer. And the only one able to use my credit card, for example. Vista still has some risky security holes, especially for people not interested in security aspects (a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save).
Beside of Poser I havn't any use of Windows (maybe because I don't do gaming). Linux runs mutch faster and smother with the same machine here. Even with a 3D desktop with some bells and wistles (another thing nobody really needs - better driver support is mutch more important for any OS).
Very well said!
Sure.(less fun though) It's a article on http://news.softpedia.com "Forget about the WGA! 20+ Windows Vista Features and Services Harvest User Data for Microsoft - From your machine!" By: Marius Oiaga, Technology News Editor The actual link. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vista-Features-and-Services-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml
My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things
Attached Link: http://isc.sans.org
> Quote - *(a virus scanner and a personal firewall may help, but is not enough to make a Windows PC save). > > * > one comment. > > > Bovine Excrement. > * > *Actually, most security sites (like the one linked above) will do comparisons among A/V suites as each new virus comes down the pike. It's kind of alarming how many of them don't catch the nasties... A Windows PC (or a Mac, or Linux PC) is never, ever perfectly safe with just A/V and software firewall. OSX and Linux are damned close to it, but no OS is perfect. None. I work with security issues professionally, and out of the hundreds of machines, scads of firewalls(software, real, and otherwise), and a metric ton of corporate security policy and procedures, I can tell you that I still see about one infected Windows machine per month, just off the corporate LAN. Most of them are IFRAME-injected exploits. The IP addy blocks and domain at my work is a bit popular with the cracker set. From personal experience, I have seen and demonstrated the following: A Windows box exposed to the public Internet (w/ no corporate security between it and World) will be taken over before you even get the first round of patches downloaded. A default Linux install with default security (and unpatched), will likely be compromised in a couple of days, unless you use a hardened distro. Macs and FreeBSD are about the only OSes that will last as default for more than a week, assuming someone doesn't brute-force their way in. Here's the trick - unless you are monitoring the network connection, you probably don't know you're infected. A smart bot-herder won't overload your box, and instead your zombified box will, for instance, send out only a few spams a minute (and not thousands per second). Multiply yours with the rest of a typical botnet (about 20k-40k), and you get a hefty outbound blast that looks just like normal traffic. /P
Yeah, Linux gets a mention in that NewTek thread, too.
I remember all of the yelling back when XP first hit the market -- I didn't agree with the naysayers back then. And after awhile: it seemed that pretty much everyone eventually happily jumped onto the XP bandwagon.
Not so thus far with Vista -- it's about the most argued-over OS that I've ever seen. Some users report that Vista works better than anything else ever has for them; while others claim that Vista destroyed their lives.
Frankly, I have to admit that I'm at something of a loss on this one. I know that PC users will eventually be forced -- kicking and screaming in some cases -- to go over to whatever Microsoft cares to feed the majority of us with.
Right now, XP is working fine for me. For now. I don't hate anything & everything from Microsoft just because it's from Microsoft -- but Vista is too controversial to encourage me to head in that direction just yet. If it was just a few whiners going on about it -- that would be one thing. But not when the negative vs. positive comments ratio seems to run 60%-40% on the average. With 60% being the negative.
Ya..I'm on XP and will stay there until I'm convinced. The only thing I will say, is the fact I'm on what is now almost a dinosaur system which I built nearly 4 years ago, with an AMD64 CPU...which has never seen a 64bit OS running through it. Its a shame, really.
Are there that many 64bit programs available? Does it even matter at this point ?
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
Quote - Ya..I'm on XP and will stay there until I'm convinced. The only thing I will say, is the fact I'm on what is now almost a dinosaur system which I built nearly 4 years ago, with an AMD64 CPU...which has never seen a 64bit OS running through it. Its a shame, really.
Are there that many 64bit programs available? Does it even matter at this point ?
Sure there are... Vue, Cinema 4D...
While not a 64 bit app, Photoshop CS3 will take advantage of over 2 gigs of ram in a 64 bit system.
XPPro running fine and stable for years for me. With all service releases and following orders, no security problems.
I am going to build a new computer before the end of the year.
Two questions:
1) If I purchase that 'builders version" of XP 64, will that yeild the advatages of a 64-bit system with regard to the announced PoserPro 64-bit render engine, and the 64-bit version of 3DSMax (planning to buy in before the end of year). In other words, will the XP-64 version cease to work for any reason over, say, a 3-year period. Has Microsoft stated it will stop making patches for the entire XP line?
- If I happend to obtain a computer with Vista pre-loaded, is it possible to
a) Make a safety copy out to a DVD, which can be used to reinstall at some point and b) once I wipe the drives clean from the new computer, could I then install Win XP Pro 64? I ask this because I heard it is no trivial thing to de-install Vista and then install XP.
Thank you
::::: Opera :::::
ninhalo5: "my renders even come out much faster 1/2 the time of Xp."
Say what?
Are you actually claiming that -- everything else being equal -- you experience a 100% increase in Poser render speed just because your are on Vista as opposed to XP?
That is an extrordinary claim. Do you stand behind it?
::::: Opera :::::
You have to keep checking Microsoft's page to see when they're going to end mainstream support for XP64.
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=8599
Usually they give a couple of years before mainstream support ends.
As far as Vista goes, if you buy a computer it should have the option of burning the operating system to disk. However, not many computers seem to come with the 64 bit version of Vista. My laptop did not. I had to buy Vista Ultimate separately.
I had Vista preinstalled on a new laptop I bought and wanted to give it a chance because all of my other PC's have XP on them. I'll admit, I really like the graphical enhancements but there were several reasons it had to come off.
First, was the inordinately long startup and shut down times - this is unbelievable when you consider that XP was touted by MS as having the quickest startup time - why the severe downshift with Vista?
Second, as somebody already mentioned, the number of processes running in the background! I mean, who's using this 'puter anyway - me or Microsoft?! Vista sure can make a fast new 'puter seem to be running very slowly. :)
Last and most serious was the incompatibility issues with so many software products. It was really hit or miss with each app. Some would install, some wouldn't or some would install but not work properly. If you know exactly what you want to be doing with your computer - who needs this hassle?
So it's going to be XP SP2 for me until the next version of Windows comes out :)
- Rick
*" hope e-frontier comes out with a pure Linux version before XP support runs out."
*They have a couple more years to get that done, since Microsoft has extended XP support and XP will be here for a while longer http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197000165
No hurry and need to switch to Vista at all. I've used it and it failed to impress me, I'll stick to XP for a number of years.
Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722
Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(
Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk
^^ same here, I think one would have to have a head injury to prefer Vista over XP64. Lots of deal breaking disadvantages, no really useful advantage. Filtering through the Microsoft BS is a bit painful but I don't see any must-have feature - all the dumb little calendar applets and movie viewers and automatic credit card caching junk is the freeware garbage that's the first thing I'd uninstall.
I got a nice laugh out of this ZDnet quote about Vista:
"...unless you watch YouTube videos all day, you won't really need Aero..."
Quote - I know that PC users will eventually be forced -- kicking and screaming in some cases -- to go over to whatever Microsoft cares to feed the majority of us with.
Not necessarily - depending on what OSX and Linux do over the next year or two, MSFT may find themselves in trouble. Dell is already starting to sell Linux-loaded machines, Ubuntu is starting to gain a HUGE number of converts, and a Mac Mini is rather inexpensive these days for what you get. > Quote - 2) If I happend to obtain a computer with Vista pre-loaded, is it possible to a) Make a safety copy out to a DVD, which can be used to reinstall at some point and b) once I wipe the drives clean from the new computer, could I then install Win XP Pro 64? I ask this because I heard it is no trivial thing to de-install Vista and then install XP.
2a) Yes. You can also get a "restore" DVD from the manufacturer. 2b) Yep. You can install any OS you want to on an OEM (pre-loaded) machine. I do it all of the time. The drivers might be, well, "interesting" to get hold of with some models, but if you trace down the parts and their makers (vid card for instance), you can do it easily enough. Me, I'll stick with OSX and Linux @ home, with a little XP laptop for compatibility testing, and not much else. At work, I prolly won't have to see Vista (or its server equivalent) for at least another year (for the Server version, prolly much longer). MSFT is making noises about an "SP1" pack for Vista, but it would really have to fix a lot of bugs and crud before I (and employer) even bother to consider it. /P
Quote - *" hope e-frontier comes out with a pure Linux version before XP support runs out."
*They have a couple more years to get that done, since Microsoft has extended XP support and XP will be here for a while longer http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197000165
Want a Linux version? Specify the distro, and I think it'll go a long way to talking them into doing it. w/ DAZ and EF (and most other folks), the question of conversion seems to stop with "which distro?" Solve that and you can prolly talk them into it (to be honest, as long as you code to the Linux Standards Base and use common libraries, it shouldn't be a problem which distro, but...) /P
Quote - > Quote - I know that PC users will eventually be forced -- kicking and screaming in some cases -- to go over to whatever Microsoft cares to feed the majority of us with.
Not necessarily - depending on what OSX and Linux do over the next year or two, MSFT may find themselves in trouble. Dell is already starting to sell Linux-loaded machines, Ubuntu is starting to gain a HUGE number of converts, and a Mac Mini is rather inexpensive these days for what you get.
If MS doesn't quit doing some of what they are doing -- they might just find themselves in danger of a slipping market. However -- realistically speaking -- the others have an awfully long ways to go before they can seriously be regarded as a dangerous challenge to Microsoft's near-total dominance in the overall desktop PC market.
Some of us geeky types might be tempted to flee MS, though.......which could be a building sign of long-term trouble for MS down the road. If all true geeks were to decide en masse to jump over to Linux, then there's a chance that eventually grandma might be using Linux to download pictures of her grandkids & to get her e-mail, too.
Quote - A lot of us have invested money in software that is Windows only. That makes it hard to switch. Also, Apple is charging a premium for the same hardware I can buy for less. Since the OS is chip locked, that turns me off to MacOS. Windows is like the Hotel California ;)
That's the rub. Bringing down Windows and Microsoft is the cherished dream of many a cyber-rebel -- but in real life, the Evil Empire can't be defeated in a 2-hour format. It would be a process of years -- if it ever happened at all.
I haven't gone with Mac -- as excellent of a system as it is -- for a number of reasons. Overpricing (IMO) being one reason -- but not the primary one. The primary one being that Macs tend to be incompatible and not a good fit with much of the software that I work with on a daily basis. I know, I know -- you'll hear that MS-based software can be made to run on a Mac -- but frankly, that's not a reason for me to consider switching. Not when said software runs just fine in its own native environment: and for less of an investment.
Linux I might think about at some point. But even there, it's iffy. If certain software packages & hardware devices just plain won't run under Linux -- then what are you gonna do?
Take the path of least resistance & stick with MS Windows. Like it or not: that's probably going to be the outcome -- and the likely choice -- for most people. Or at least I'd say that's the way to bet -- right now.
However -- things sometimes have a way of surprising us. You never can tell.
Quote - A lot of us have invested money in software that is Windows only. That makes it hard to switch.
Not really. I dare say that it's not really hard at all.
Quote - Also, Apple is charging a premium for the same hardware I can buy for less. Since the OS is chip locked, that turns me off to MacOS. Windows is like the Hotel California ;)
$600 for a Core2Duo, 1GB RAM, and an 80GB HDD?
The nearest Dell Inspiron 530s desktop with those hardware specs (well, a slightly slower Core Duo processor) and Vista Home Basic will save you some dough, but to match OS feature for OS feature (OSX 10.4.6 vs. Vista), you'll be needing Vista Ultimate, which makes the difference $20 or so. With just Vista Basic, you save about $180 (XP isn't available for the low-end Inspiron desktop series @ Dell)
/P
Quote - > Quote - A lot of us have invested money in software that is Windows only. That makes it hard to switch.
Not really. I dare say that it's not really hard at all.
Quote - Also, Apple is charging a premium for the same hardware I can buy for less. Since the OS is chip locked, that turns me off to MacOS. Windows is like the Hotel California ;)
$600 for a Core2Duo, 1GB RAM, and an 80GB HDD?
The nearest Dell Inspiron 530s desktop with those hardware specs (well, a slightly slower Core Duo processor) and Vista Home Basic will save you some dough, but to match OS feature for OS feature (OSX 10.4.6 vs. Vista), you'll be needing Vista Ultimate, which makes the difference $20 or so. With just Vista Basic, you save about $180 (XP isn't available for the low-end Inspiron desktop series @ Dell)
/P
I'm not talking home users, but professionally as well. I can't run SQL Server on a Linux box and I am sure not going to be switching to Oracle any time soon. Windows server run ASP.NET, and I don't think you can do this with any great ease on a Linux server. Windows still dominates the corporate network, and I don't think this will ever change.
As far as home computers go, I don't buy prebuilts except for laptops. I can put together a machine far cheaper than anything Dell or Apple has to sell me.
Apple needs to wise up and start selling the OS independently of the machine. Only way I will switch.
Well, the likes of Google and Intel use MySQL... a lot. It costs approximately $0.00 to acquire. There's lots of plugins that will pull in any SQL '97-compliant DB dumps. I agree on homebuilts - much mo' cheaper to build 'em yourself. Incidentally, you can install OSX on a vanilla PC if the chip has SSE2 or better on it. http://osxx86.sourceforge.net I believe is the place to get the relevant info (top o' the head.. .can't remember 100%). I'll check my links @ work tomorrow and pass it on. /P
First, if Bill Gates wanted to take over the world, he would have a good start, but so would other software providers. Photoshop, Poser, and many more will automatically connect to the Internet and check versions, updates and so on UNLESS YOU TURN THIS STUFF OFF. I have XP Pro SR2, and I turned all the Microshit firewalls, virus scan and error reporting off when I installed it. Download the free Zonearlarm firewall from Zone labs and it will tell you everytime a program tries to connect to the Internet. You just tell Zonelarm "no". I use the free AVG Grisoft virus scanner and find it far superior to the commercial ones. Also turn off all the "checking" in Windows Media player, etc. Download the free Spybot Search and Destroy and Ad-Aware which will also help keep your machine free of trojans and spyware. Microsoft acts like all users have the IQ of a kitchen chair. I also empty my Internet cache at least once a week to get rid of the bad cookies. Sometimes I miss the old Internet when it was all BBs and text.
Quote - Well, the likes of Google and Intel use MySQL... a lot. It costs approximately $0.00 to acquire. There's lots of plugins that will pull in any SQL '97-compliant DB dumps. I agree on homebuilts - much mo' cheaper to build 'em yourself. Incidentally, you can install OSX on a vanilla PC if the chip has SSE2 or better on it. http://osxx86.sourceforge.net I believe is the place to get the relevant info (top o' the head.. .can't remember 100%). I'll check my links @ work tomorrow and pass it on. /P
MySQL doesn't really scale well for large databases. According to this TPCH thing I've seen, it becomes Oracle/UNIX when faced with anything over 3 TB. Hmm, I'll have to check out this OSX link you have... I was going to try putting OSX on VMWare and see if that worked. :)
OSX on PC hardware is very tempting. At the beginning of the year before rediscovering Linux I was considering OSX on PC as a possible 1/2 step on the way to converting over fully to a Mac. Some of my main programs came with both Mac and Win versions. I'm still sort of itching to tinker with OSX on PC eventually even if it's just to see what it's like.
My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things
Quote - First, if Bill Gates wanted to take over the world, he would have a good start, but so would other software providers. Photoshop, Poser, and many more will automatically connect to the Internet and check versions, updates and so on UNLESS YOU TURN THIS STUFF OFF.
...that's why the one Windows machine I recently came by (an old P3 Dell laptop that I do compatibility checks with via D|S) isn't even allowed outside the LAN. My (real, not OS) firewall blocks all outbound packets from its MAC address. I only need LAN connectivity for it now. > Quote - Sometimes I miss the old Internet when it was all BBs and text.
Yeah, me too. > Quote - MySQL doesn't really scale well for large databases.
I'd see where the benchmarks you mentioned came from and who commissioned them - Google's main DBs are all MySQL, and they have to be way larger than 3TB. At work I've rigged 8 MySQL synced DB's of a code automation testing suite that's roughly 4.5TB in size total, with two of them in Arizona, and two of them in China -- across a horrifyingly skinny WAN link (you have to use v5.1 or better, coupled with Federated Tables and a bit of iteration rigging to round-robin the SQL replication thread among the 'two-way' DB's (three of the pile are only slaves, with the rest as peers. One of the threads has a 3-hour inbound delay to the archive DB, thanks to a little script built by xprb) - it's the one complaint I have w/ MySQL, though... replication is a PITA unless you're willing to get jiggy with it. Oracle (esp. with RAC) is much, much nicer, but the price tag is evil. MSSQL might handle it, but the price tag is friggin' huge too, and the underlying OS is unsuitable IMHO). That said, I've seen no real probs w/ performance, aside from the initial DB loads (UPS and a few full LTO-3 tapes were my best friends there). Long, ugly story... :) The OSX-X86 link: http://www.osxx86.info/installguide/ I have one specifically for VMWare installs too... I'll cough that up when I get to work :) /P
OSX on a PC sounds interesting -- if only to be different. Perhaps it might work with a dual-boot arrangement: although I could envision all sorts of potential issues arising from such a setup.
I couldn't find XP pro anywhere so put one on from someone else, told MS I thought it was a pirated copy and was able to buy it from them. As well as getting the CD in the mail it was installed in my name right then so at least for now you can get it from them in a roundabout way...and it's legal. I have no use for Vista. I may have to eventually break down and use it....but hopefully by that time it will be running smoother with options to get rid of the background noise. I still have 2000 pro on two of my systems and XP pro on the rest. I see no reason to upgrade them to vista, though I am interested in taking advantage of the XP 64 bit.
- 1
- 2
Privacy Notice
This site uses cookies to deliver the best experience. Our own cookies make user accounts and other features possible. Third-party cookies are used to display relevant ads and to analyze how Renderosity is used. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understood our Terms of Service, including our Cookie Policy and our Privacy Policy.
It seems to be the same story everywhere you go. Some people swear that Vista is the greatest OS ever, while others claim that Vista is the worst thing that's ever polluted their PC's.
If anyone's curious, here's what the good forumites over at NewTek (the makers of Lightwave) are raving / singing praises about re:Vista.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72759
It all sounds a lot like a repeat of the same things that we've heard around here. The "I am a banana!" forumite from Denmark argues strongly in favor of Vista -- insisting that the people who he knows all absolutely adore Vista. While others in the thread positively hate Vista -- and still others are on the fence and struggling with it. Hey -- there's even a couple of slaps & kudos directed at Macs in that thread -- so it should all have an entertainingly familiar ring to it.
That thread even contains the standard web-forum-style posts implying that people who dislike Vista have low IQ's & are incompetent (hidden under color of humor) -- while those on the other side issue counter-claims to the effect that such remarks sound like -- well, I'll just quote the post:
Heh, Neverko is starting to sound like some of the Mac-users that I know - everyone who doesn't realize why my operating system rules is an incompetent, thick skulled, misinformed fool - just a drone with an low IQ.
From what I'm gathering: an upgrade to Vista is a gamble. You might win going that way, and you might not. But I'm beginning to have almost as much fun just reading people's barbed comments as I am in educating myself on the subject. :a_grin:
Something To Do At 3:00AM