I'm just wondering why certain individuals here like to post a comment on a render like "Great work!!!!" and then follow that comment with a low rating? What's up with that?

This has happened to me frequently enough in the past that I was going to mention it earlier but I held off from doing so because it's hard to mention something like this without it coming off sounding like "sour grapes" over a low rating.

Don't get me wrong, if I enable ratings on an image and somebody wants to give that image a low rating that is their prerogative - no problem at all.  I've been making images for a long time so I'm secure enough with my own talents that it's not going to bother me in the least. It just seems to me that there's something very duplicitous about posting a glowing comment and THEN giving that same image a low rating.

I'm just wondering what would prompt an individual to do something like that? Were they traumatized while being toilet trained or is it just some other gross character deficiency - or what else ... I don't know :)

I recall seeing a thread about this same thing a few months ago in the Poser forum and I wished I would have joined in then with a suggestion to the PTB that this may be avoided if a viewers's rating was posted along with their comment. This may not eliminate this curious behavior but at least everyone would know who the individuals are who are doing this.

• Rick

I've noticed those too:) 

I don't mind low ratings, but it was quite funny. Comment : "excellent, fantastic!" Rating - two stars.
What I think it  is just lack of... guts, heh. People are more honest with stars thinking artist won't be able to tell who gave lower rating, so they  are 'safe' (and can tell what they really think)...

IMO it again shows one of the biggest cancers in this community. Lack of honesty,  andhypocrisy in galleries (but it was discussed so many times, so ...)

Quote - I'm just wondering why certain individuals here like to post a comment on a render like "Great work!!!!" and then follow that comment with a low rating? What's up with that?

Actually, that is against the Renderosity TOS.  Send a site mail to a moderator and they will look into it.

http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13098

While some instances are accidents, there are some who do it consistently to bring down a person's rating and that is considered "trolling" and "non constructive".

*'Send a site mail to a moderator and they will look into it.'

I would Acadia but it's not like the rating left behind was a 1 which would clearly be inconsistent with a glowing comment. I think that these individuals leave themselves enough wriggle room that they would manage to skate just inside the TOS.

*'While some instances are accidents, there are some who do it consistently to bring down a person's rating and that is considered "trolling" and "non constructive".'

That's really why I'm suggesting that the ratings not be anonymous. I'm just not going to enable ratings on my own images because the ratings mean little to me - it's only laziness on my part that I forget to uncheck the box. My concern though is for the other people who haven't been posting their images here as long as I have and who may feel differently about the ratings their images get.

The ones who do it connsistently do it now under a cloak of darkness and that's what is wrong with the system as it stands. If these same people wanted to continue doing this - at least they would be exposed for who and what they are.

• Rick

that's weird behaviour - giving false praise, then slapping a low rating on it.
what I usually see is meaningless, uncritical praise, even when it's an obvious
copyright violation, a tawdry nostril-glow zombie, or even a DVD capture posted
as a poser render, accompanied by an equally meaningless "5" rating.

Heh - exactly Miss Nancy! Meaningless, uncritical praise should always be matched with a meaningless "5" rating.

Anything less is uncouth :)

• Rick

"Forgetting to check the ratings box?"
Sheer carelessness. I've probably done that by accident myself. I'm 57, my eyes are not what they were, and the ratings box is small and hard to see. I either don't notice it, or just forget.

Quote - "Forgetting to check the ratings box?"

But then you simply don't give a rating?

The default setting in the ratings box is "no rating".
That would mean someone just forgot.
If it's a "1" or "2", it's probably deliberate.

The ratings box I was referring too was the one on the upload form you get to upload your image - "Allow Ratings".  I was unchecking this box because this was happening to me fairly regularly in the past. But I haven't uploaded images in a while so I was forgetting to uncheck the "Allow Ratings" box when uploading my last few images.

It's really no big deal either way but it's just annoying to me that some people are doing this and I've heard others complain about it in the past. So I though I'd finally say something about it to see what others thought about it.

I suppose it would have been too much to hope for that the people who are doing this would enter the discussion to explain why they are so compelled to do so.

• Rick

I've totally given up on the galleries as far as comments are concerned with what images I post which is very little. I know darn well I do good work, better than some images I've seen, but for the most part I am ignored so I have taken most of my images out of the galleries except a few.

I try my best to comment and leave ratings for those that check it on images of the forgotten that post in the galleries those that don't have a "buddie" crowd or a "crew" that leaves millions of comments as though they are like school kids that want to sit at the popular kids lunch table.

Rick, those that do this are not going to answer as unfortunately it is a way they can feel better.
I guess leaving a great comment and a low rating in some way boosts the ego of some one will never know. But I guess it's the nature of the beast but I for one will always try to leave not only a comment but a rating as well and hope those that don't just forgot or over looked the ratings box.

Fruit for thought and nothing more; so don't read into it.

It's possible that in their way of reasoning they thought that the render was excellent, good or whatever. The residual fact remaining is that compared to all other images that they viewed, it only rated as a 2 or 3. When I was in school I was graded on a system called DEPICT also there were ability levels or classes such as beginner, intermediate, pro. Here is what DEPICT stands for

D was detial
E was eveness
P was proportion
I  was inking
C was color
T was technique

Each letter was graded and awarded. Here it's just a flat 1 through 5 reward system. 

How do you think your work compares with all the images out there? Is it 1 star material or 2 or 3 or 4, but to give yourself a 5 star rating in the gallery of fantastic images presented here is, well you know your work better than I do. You decide where you place. Just my thoughts on the matter and yes your is pretty "dang" good. 1 because I know you made it yourself in some cases where as other just buy and pose. Later,

...Wonders (but doesn't know the answer) if someone can give a rating without leaving a comment?

if so, perhaps the "great" comment you read & the low rating you see are from two different people???

hmmm...prolly doesn't work that way... :unsure:

...well, sorry that's happening to you, Rick

Hi Jen :)

Oh it's no problem Sweetie. I probably shouldn't even have mentioned it. It's only that I upload images for fun and not to be annoyed and it just annoyed me. After everything is said and done though I guess it doesn't add up to much. I'll just leave 'ratings' turned off from now on and spare myself the aggravation :)

well, I know what you mean, though...it takes some of the fun away when something like that happens.

I remember there was a guy/troll at another site a couple fo years ago who was just going through and giving a lousy rating to alot of people's images...think he had a "thing" against nudity...but at least it wasn't invisible as the username appeared with the rating...that made it easier to ban the guy, too! :lol: 

still trying to believe the best in people...I thought of another possibility...the darn "scroll wheel" on the mouse sometimes messes with drop-down boxes. So I tested it in I.E. After I gave a 5 rating to an image, I scrolled back up to what I had written in the comment box using the mouse wheel and, lo and behold, the rating box was still active and the rating of 5 changed to a lower rating. So maybe, it's just an innocent mistake by some people accidentally changing the rating they wanted to give when they used their scroll wheels. I'd like to think so, at least...

btw, this didn't happen when I tested it using Firefox (my usual browser)...another good reason to stay away from I.E. :biggrin:

in any case, don't let it bug ya, hun

Is one rating a lousy rating?I allways understood this rating system from one star -good- to five stars -the best- .So there is no negative rating for me.Athough without rating if I write "excellent work " ,I mean it ,or else I wouldn't have made a coment.

Probably just a troll. They usually do that.

This is why I don't bother posting my artwork here.

Yes I stopped posting here too.  The comment club was just too annoying for me.  That stuff with the ratings, I would report it and let them sort out whether or not it was intentional on the other side.  If nothing else maybe a mod can mention something to the person.

On the flip side maybe it was a sincere rating? 
With only 5 stars it is hard.  For instance I imagine 5 stars being something similar to the great published artists.  1 being not very good at all.  But for average joe - 3 stars may very well mean "Great Job".

Well gang, if any of you really think you're being trolled in the galleries, let me know and we'll pursue it further.  You can IM me if you'd rather.

Quote - Is one rating a lousy rating?I allways understood this rating system from one star -good- to five stars -the best- .So there is no negative rating for me.Athough without rating if I write "excellent work " ,I mean it ,or else I wouldn't have made a coment.

before the gallery was revamped sometime in 2006, the ratings system didn't have numbers but used words instead...words ranging from "Excellent" (the top rating) to "Great" to "Needs Work" to "Poor." I don't remember all the possibilities...there were something like 8 different choices. So I think that those general "concepts" have carried over to this number system...5 is "excellent" and 1 is "poor"

having said that, I do agree with your premise...most people wouldn't bother leaving any sort of comment or rating unless they liked the image to begin with...

Quote - ...most people wouldn't bother leaving any sort of comment or rating unless they liked the image to begin with...

Or were sufficiently incensed by it to leave a negative remark, or were trolling the galleries.

I hate those ratings, I forget to switch it off. Mostly I hate trying to rate someones work. What do the ratings mean anyway???? Is there a prize :O)? I do love getting comments, it's a nice way to have contact with the other members.
Hi Rick!

Come on!  Trolls?

I think this has gotten carried away.

Oh my goodness, gallery trolls? Run hide everyone!

*'I do love getting comments, it's a nice way to have contact with the other members.'

Hi Leah :) Yes, I agree and they are a lot more important than ratings too.

btw - I love your sig line now that I'm going to finally be a Grandpa in a few months - yeah! lol :)

• Rick

I stopped doing ratings years ago. If I like something, I'll say 'great work'.  If it's something I see that has a 'flaw' I know how to fix, I might leave a hint. But I always end on a positive note (C#..;)

I look at stuff I like. If I don't like, I don't look...;)

Er, yea, GALLERY TROLLS. If you want to pretend they don't exist, feel free, but if someone comes along and rates you all down and leaving nasty comments or rates everything down with no comments for the hell of it, whatelse do you call it? I call it trolling. Especially, if you don't know that person.

NOT uncommon on here. ;)

Over all how seriously do you think people take TROLLS? If I see an excellent picture and some TROLL has left a bad comment on it.  I know that there must be a problem of some kind. Either they were like you say a TROLL or they had a beef with the artist for some reason, but the art speaks for itself don't you think?

Yes I know there are people that roam around the net and trash people for fun. It's kind of like smashing mail boxes with a bat or knocking their trash cans over. Most of the time it's just devious fun. Not so fun picking up the trash or replacing your mail box. What is everyone going to do, quit posting because the possibility of a TROLL happening by? No, keep posting and like I said the viewer knows because the art speaks for itself. You can't quit putting out your trash and you need a mailbox too.

If the ratings quietly disappeared, I don't think I'd ever notice them missing.

I have been through similar ratings and comments.  I don't worry about and actually welcome any rating good or bad.  For whatever reason you get a rating, your art was good enough to make them want to comment on it.

**I agree with Conniekat8 and FightingWolf above.  I personally haven't had any problem that I'm aware of.  I do not rate anybody, because I've never found it particularly helpful to me.  I do appreciate comments, both positive and negative--as long as they are presented in an encouraging, rather than discouraging way.  I'm not the best artist, nor am I the worst.  I can and sometimes model everything, but more often I use a lot of purchased models and freebies, but I always try to make it clear that they were not originals by me and to give due credit to their creators.   I often retexture a lot of things and I think I can safely say that the picture is very much my own vision and creation--and that takes a reasonable amount of artistic ability too; and I don't think those who prefer to model all their own stuff ought to sneer at those of us who use the talents of others to assist us in our vision.  I've come to think of such items as being like the colors on a pallet--a tool to be used to create something unique to myself.  I'm not about to apologize for that or allow myself to be put down.  I do get frustrated, though, --and embarrassed--when I very clearly go to extensive trouble to tell my viewers that some elements of my render were created by others and they don't bother to read those credits and assume that it is all my work.   It is sad to say, but some of the very best artists tend to be the worst snobs; and such attitudes do not endear me to their works, however great they may be.  On the other hand, some of the most original museum quality work is done for very nice folks--frogdot, in particular, comes to mind--who are very inclusive and encouraging to we lesser folk.  

**I have a group of around 50 to 200 people who visit my gallery regularly, depending on the genre.   They are a community of encouragers and appreciators of what I am trying to do artistically.  They mean the world to me and have been good to me because what good does it do for me to create a work of art and have no one to look at it?   I don't think anybody ought to be sneering at such groups--and it sounded up above as if some of you came pretty close to doing that.   Now you may have been describing closed little groups quite different from what I've just described but it made me wince.

**

** 
 

Been there.

After much aggravation, I simply disabled the rating option on my images. They don't REALLY mean much anyway...the number of hits and/or number of comments count more for me. Or better yet, how many people select my stuff as favs.

I absolutely agree with samhal as to the true measure of my work (or anybody's)  and I am going to disable the rating option right now; although, I've always regarded it as being those folks who can't or don't want to make a comment, but do want to make a response. 

Quote - Over all how seriously do you think people take TROLLS? If I see an excellent picture and some TROLL has left a bad comment on it.  I know that there must be a problem of some kind. Either they were like you say a TROLL or they had a beef with the artist for some reason, but the art speaks for itself don't you think?

Yes I know there are people that roam around the net and trash people for fun. It's kind of like smashing mail boxes with a bat or knocking their trash cans over. Most of the time it's just devious fun. Not so fun picking up the trash or replacing your mail box. What is everyone going to do, quit posting because the possibility of a TROLL happening by? No, keep posting and like I said the viewer knows because the art speaks for itself. You can't quit putting out your trash and you need a mailbox too.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about trolls or trolling.  They don't bother me in the least.   Now remember, that's a personal view, not the view of Renderosity as a whole, nor, I suspect the view of most people here.

That being the case, Renderosity's TOS specifically forbid trolling and so we take a dim view of it wherever it happens, galleries or forums.

I see a number of reasons, one as RGUS used in another thread, Huggies, people comment to get comments.  I like to think I comment because the image appeals to me but yet I seem to have an adjective list I pull from but I have been trying better, talking about the model, the setting, the lights, colors, even the title of the image.  I hate to say I lack the vocabulary to say, I like this because...?  I don't know why somethings appeal to me.  

How can you TELL what someone has rated you?? It only says how many ratings I got and how many people commented. I usually give everyone a 5 that I look at unless I really hate it and then I don't even comment.  I have noticed that sometimes I'll be in the top commented for the day and not make it into the top rated at all because even though I got a lot of ratings, some people must have given me low ratings to drag my overall ratings down. Really, that's just jealousy I think. When I started here I was thrilled to get one comment! Many of my images did not get a single comment, not even a "you stink", LOL!

I don't let people rate my images and I stopped rating them long ago because the star system doesn't mean the same thing to me as it appears to mean to everyone else. I say this because to me 1 star means it was good enough that they viewed it and liked it.

I got my feelings about Star Ratings way way back in grade school where, when you got a Star on your paper, it was above and beyond the grade you got. Stars were icing on the cake. ANY Stars! It means not only did they like it enough to look at it, they liked it enough to give you a star.

I understand now that too many people around here take 1 star to mean that it was poor so I just don't star anyone anymore. if I like something I'll comment. If I don't you get nothing.

Wow!

I really just don't worry about "Stars" and I read comments out of interest. Good or Bad people are a "hoot". Sam, as you've already said just drop you an email and you'd look into it.

I think some viewers that leave "Stars" and Comments are endangered of being WITCH hunted by a bunch of people that don't even understand the system of merits in the first place.

NOW, KNOWING THAT. SAM, CAN THEY(THE HUNTED AND FALSE ACCUSED) EMAIL YOU ALSO?

Anyone can sitemail me regarding Renderosity issues.  That's part of the deal when you're a staff member.  Every question/complaint/problem gets looked into and answered to the best of our abilities.

Quote- "Anyone can sitemail me regarding Renderosity issues.  That's part of the deal when you're a staff member.  Every question/complaint/problem gets looked into and answered to the best of our abilities."

Sam, you can bet I'm not going to email you right away. For one confirming ill will toward someone could make you almost a "paper tiger" in this circumstance given the fact that it would be easy to say that said person didn't understand what it was all about in the first place. Why run off potential new comers or upset longtime customers over something that's almost impossible to prove in the first place? It sounds like to me most of these artists want everything candy coated and sweet as sugar all the time. They want brownie points for there work and high self esteem builders. Not real feedback. From what I've observed.

Yet, you hear people asking for the truth. This is why you can't get it all the time people. You could be branded a TROLL and reported and maybe even hassled. Get somebody( a real asshole) kicked off and see what happens folks. My best guess is to just ignore it unless it just gets way out of hand(my opinion anyways). Take for what it's worth.

Well, it ain't like I'm gonna take anyone off into a dark corner and slap them around a little.  I don't do that so much these days. :)

First thing, we'd have to establish if someone was making a genuine mistake somewhere along the line, or if that's how they thought the ratings worked, or if they really were trying to upset people by giving them low ratings.  You have to admit, that's extremely difficult to determine. 

Generally speaking, unless something is clear cut, like posting random insults all over the place, a friendly word is all that's needed. 

My personal opinion is to scrap the rating system completely.  Comments, I believe, are fine as they are.  No matter what you do, you'll never get rid of the "hug club" but at least there is scope for genuine feedback if that's what the artist wants.

Just bringing it out that really there is only so much the moderator can do. The artist has to take some heat too. I have no problem with the star system, but if it's bothering people? I don't care, but then that's why I'm not upset about it in the first place.

Later,

I just don't want good people to get hurt because somebody cares to much about it.

Well, dogor, I've always wanted honest constructive criticism, good or bad, and I try to do the same for others.  I sometimes get frustrated because I would like to have more constructive negative criticism than I usually get.  I agree there are some people who think they want it but their egos prove too tender and so it becomes hurtful for them, even if it should not.  That's why, when we do feel we must give a negative response, it is important to be very conscious about what we are saying, how we are saying it, and to who we are saying.  Do no harm should always be our motto, when it comes to giving input.  In truth, my experience here at Renderosity has been very positive in that regard--and I expect that is true of most of us. 

I'm not a fan of the stars ratings, but I feel we may be trying to fix something that isn't broken.  I still think some folks use the stars system exclusively to give input to the artist and others, like myself and some of you here in this forum, do it with words.  Both are valid ways of responding to the work.  I suspect that most of us Rendos do one or the other, and that those who do both aren't all that many, considering the large numbers of our membership. 

I agree with dogor that if you don't like the star rating system, simply do not allow it to be an option.  Same for "Hug Clubs."   Sure they exist.  They always have on sites like this one.  So what?  That's their community--a bit twisted perhaps--but hey! different strokes for different folks.  I don't have anything to do with them.  They don't come visiting me.  Why should I care, if they are there?  Live and let live--unless a specific person is causing you a problem, then go to the moderators. 

Richard, from my point of view many persones "paste" Great Work to an image with the hope you will come back to their page to do the same. Their goal is, to reach the *** artcharts and to stay on top as long it´s possible. Of course they don´t want to give you a high ranking becourse they don´t want that you reach the charts...

Maybe I´m too old to understand what´s so holy on the art-charts of Rendo as you don´t get a 5 Dollar vourcher for that. To stay in the charts, or to get 50 + comments often only means that you have a lot of friends that comment daily your works. I always shake my head when I read sentences like "Sorry that I haven´t comment your works yet, but I promise I´ll fetch up all my 600 ebots". These persons must fear the lose of comments or rankings much.

I have just canceld this rating option since years; I love to read comments but I prefere some personal words or real critique with a hint how to do it better. I have my favorite artists, people whos art I like. This could be real masterpieces but also funny or interesting images of beginners. For me they are all 5 Stars becourse I like them ;-)

I usually have my ratings off whenever I post anything here. One, it really doesn't work as it was originally intended and two, I have seen it abused time and time again. Yesterday, after a long break, I posted a render and forgot to turn it off. Seconds later, the comments came and I saw someone left me a rating. What I found amusing though is, the person left me a 1 rating yet nothing in the comments shows anything other than the usual "fantastic", "great render"..etc.  Ratings don't mean much to me personally, and it is kinda sad to hear that some people do it to stay on top of the arts charts.

Sivana & Rainfeather: The ratings aren't factored into the Art Charts.

Quote - Sivana & Rainfeather: The ratings aren't factored into the Art Charts.

Yep, you're right the rating is not what gets one to the art charts rather the number of people who has faved your work and added you to their watched list. Been in the arts charts a few times myself  when I was actively posting here. I do understand what Sivana is getting at though. Back when I was new to rendo, I noticed the trend some people do of leaving as many comments as they can to those who have never heard of them in the hopes that they will in turn visit their gallery and put them in their watched list. It is quite common to see the same people leaving a cut and paste comment to almost every images posted good or bad. I think that is what she was getting at in which I have agreed to

*Sivana: Maybe I´m too old to understand what´s so holy on the art-charts of Rendo as you don´t get a 5 Dollar vourcher for that.

Yes, this is why I find the whole thing so curious. All of the manipulations of one thing or another really doesn't end up being for much does it? You wonder why people would go through so much trouble. I did assume from the beginning that the low ratings were being given as part of that plan. Again, I have to wonder why it is worth so much trouble to the people doing this - there are no prizes being given away for our renders :)

• Rick

*"Back when I was new to rendo, I noticed the trend some people do of leaving as many comments as they can to those who have never heard of them in the hopes that they will in turn visit their gallery and put them in their watched list. It is quite common to see the same people leaving a cut and paste comment to almost every images posted good or bad."

How do you know what someone else is hoping? You are putting words/thoughts in their minds. When I first started here, I was in awe of people who got a lot of comments and thought they must be incredible artists. People like Prog routinely got over 100 comments, but his stuff, IMHO, is really wonderful. Commenting back on someone's work after they leave a comment on your art is just courtesy. I have only one person who routinely leaves cut and paste comments. If I don't have time to comment on other's work, I don't post my own, or I turn off comments. It is just being polite. As far as ratings, how can you tell what someone has rated you? I can't see it anywhere. And if it doesn't matter, why are there so many threads complaining about low ratings or lack of comments? It obviously matters to a lot of folks. It would be nice if we won money, though, LOL!!!!

*'Commenting back on someone's work after they leave a comment on your art is just courtesy.'

You make a good point Sherrie and I agree. If someone takes the time and trouble to comment on your images then there is nothing wrong with returning the courtesy. I notice a lot of complaining about this but that always made sense to me :)

• Rick