Beautiful pair of boots.  Will there be any other colors?

 I really like the shaders. :)

Maybe they could use a bit more texture though, if you're going for the photorealistic look?

This is the basic material right now, I'll be doing a bit more to the bump map, I'm just interested to know if the suede looks like suede and the leather looks like leather.

ps that thing at the top of the boot is just a placeholder to get displacement doing what I want it to do (which it is).

I think a little more bump to the leather for definition.  I can't decide on the suede, though.

The specular on the leather is too bright and not spread out enough IMO.

Same opinion ... Do you use anisotropic ?

 Do you have an UV map for it? I'd personally think it would look good with a real texture in the material.

suede needs a little  more rough texture otherwise looks good

But perhaps this is something like it? Want it?

That looks great BB! Are you thinking to update your leather shaders as well???

Yes.

I just threw this suede together, by hand. I have to turn it into a script, so it can be auto GC and have some nice parameters. Right now it is gobbldigook.

I'll be back in a couple hours with the finished suede.

pretty  i like a  lot  will the shader  work in P7

 BB...you really are a Poser Wizard....that's the best suede I've seen in any app....well done.. ...

Yes that model has a proper UVmap, attached.

 Noting wrong with yours pjz99 that a more spread out specularity in a non white colour and a bit of roughness wouldn't fix I figure.. nice boots btw.. ...

Quote - pretty  i like a  lot  will the shader  work in P7

Yep - actually will work in P5, 6, etc.

Quote -  BB...you really are a Poser Wizard....that's the best suede I've seen in any app....well done.. ...

Thanks, Bobby.

I agree, that is some of the best suede I've seen!

And yeah it's great looking suede there Bagginsbill, I'm just not interested in supporting a very complex shader setup or GC.

Quote - Nah if it's a million nodes I'm not too interested, I'd rather keep it simple and just get it in the ballpark.  I don't use GC and today is not the day to start.

Yes that model has a proper UVmap, attached.

I'm with you. I like as few nodes as possible.

Laurie

Quote - Any opinions about how these look?  Suede - the shadow terminator is too sharp but I don't think I can do anything about that with raytraced shadows.

Those boots are great!  A poser girl can't have too many boots, shoes, purses or hats!!  

@ pjz...those don't look like leather or suede to me at all.

Did you model those yourself or just do a Zbrush extraction which some might consider a copyright violation?
I ask because some of your outfits resemble Zbrush extractions, either subdivided or decimated as an end result.

Quote - Nah if it's a million nodes I'm not too interested, I'd rather keep it simple and just get it in the ballpark.  I don't use GC and today is not the day to start.

Yes that model has a proper UVmap, attached.

this is a mistake IMO he he ;)

BB likes procedural bump and texture. it can help us a lot of times.

but if we dont want it we just delete all the nodes and use a color image and a color bump.we left in  all the other nodes that are there for how the diffuse and specular acts.

i like procedurals for some simple materials. but when you have a boot you need to use a lot of control maps. dirt,grim. and for specular we also need some control maps.

so Pjz never ignore BB's materials with a lot of nodes. because they react to lighiting like real materials. for color and bump you can still use real rextures.

Quote - @ pjz...those don't look like leather or suede to me at all.

Did you model those yourself or just do a Zbrush extraction which some might consider a copyright violation?
I ask because some of your outfits resemble Zbrush extractions, either subdivided or decimated as an end result.

no offense but ouyr post makes no sense.

how can a zbrush extraction be a pocyright violation? you can use all the functions in zbrush .

 While I am pretty sure PJZ modeled these without extracting anything, I suppose a "zbrush extraction CAN be a copyright violation " if it copied the mesh slavishly just with an offset (I do not use zbrush so I'm just guessing about what this function does)

That said.. Why worry about the number of nodes? The end user won't have to mess with them at all, if you supply a couple of MAT poses to change the colour a little. Exprienced users can THEN use the material room to totally control their look, while John Doe can just click a button. Chances are, John Doe has his Material Room set to "Simple" anyway and wouldn't DREAM of even clicking the Advanced tab.  And why settle for a lesser-than-perfect solution?

BB - thís is absolutely THE best suede I've ever seen. I have some various leather textures (from a product called Magic Skin, not sure if it's still available) and it does pretty nice leather and suede, but not as good as this!

Quote - There are so many variations of both, one could never hope to produce what you have in your mind's eye.

But perhaps this is something like it? Want it?

WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please?

Quote -  While I am pretty sure PJZ modeled these without extracting anything, I suppose a "zbrush extraction CAN be a copyright violation " if it copied the mesh slavishly just with an offset (I do not use zbrush so I'm just guessing about what this function does)

i dont think you can copyright a boot shape. and i dont think you can copyright mesh topology.

Quote - and i dont think you can copyright mesh topology.

Think again then. You most certainly can copyright a mesh. There has been SO many issues with bits of existing figures being copied onto other figures here and sold as original...

As for boots, it's probably more a question of trade dress than copyright (people tend to use copyright about everything and anything also when it's not actually a COPYRIGHT issue but a violation of intellectual property or trade dress ect.) The Coke bottle is a good example of trade dress. You just CAN'T make a copy of it, even if you call it "Auntie Sues Brown Beverage" instead of Coca Cola.

i agree that you can not  copy a mesh.

but you can use the same topology for your boots. and if someone looks at the mesh he would think that it was copied. but it was not.

 Agreed. That's after all how you make clothes - and boots FIT - by approximating the topology as closely to the figure as possible. And of course that isn't "copying" - but IIRC there has been problems earlier with blatant "shrinkwrapping" techniques. Since Hexagon isn't capable of that, it's never been an issue to me L

 Some really nice suede materials there. :)  Great with UV map too, for creating special styles, like snakeskin, or simply for seams and stuff.

Like Trekkiegrrl said, zbrush extraction or shrinkwrapping or anything that mimics the model can be a copyright violation.. I've read extensive threads on daz about it.. But really, I've made some really tight clothing by hand, and it very much follows the figure too..  If you make something that's shaped close to the figure, it -has- to follow the shape, regardless of the method you use to make it..

I think what really matters is whether something is actually stolen or not, and if it's a competing figure with the original, and I doubt pjz99's boots is either.

Quote - @ pjz...those don't look like leather or suede to me at all.

Did you model those yourself or just do a Zbrush extraction which some might consider a copyright violation?
I ask because some of your outfits resemble Zbrush extractions, either subdivided or decimated as an end result.

Hi, thanks for your valuable feedback.  No, they're just very good models.  Appreciate it though, very flattering to hear it put that way even if I'm sure it wasn't meant to be such.

Quote - There has been SO many issues with bits of existing figures being copied onto other figures here and sold as original...

That's all neither here nor there, because I don't ever use mesh extraction, as anyone who took a few seconds to look at any of my models can see.

edit: hell, you can see that obviously from the UVmap I posted earlier; my guess is the other poster has difficulty making models that fit a character closely, and thinks the only way to achieve this is to copy the character's mesh, which is - uh - dumb, but flattering :)

Quote -  Agreed. That's after all how you make clothes - and boots FIT - by approximating the topology as closely to the figure as possible. And of course that isn't "copying" - but IIRC there has been problems earlier with blatant "shrinkwrapping" techniques. Since Hexagon isn't capable of that, it's never been an issue to me L

Going to quote your post on this matter since due to technical considerations the subject is not an issue to you so shouldn't offend.:biggrin: (Plus you understand that fitting a new mesh to an existing mesh as an add-on isn't copying, amazing number of people don't get that point.)

Using a shrinkwrap modifier on a mesh of your own creation to fit to an existing mesh to create an accessory such as clothing is not a copyright violation because the original mesh topology is not used.

It is in effect no different than fitting your mesh to the original model by hand. Even when a shrinkwrap modifier has been used on your own mesh for quick fitting to the original figure a good deal of hand work must still be done to make a proper model.

The key point is that you must use your own mesh as the basis for the new item.

To avoid the cries of  "But your using the original mesh to fit to!" readers need to understand that topology means the placement of the verts, edges, faces, rings, loops, etc.

Your own mesh while following the volume of the original mesh does not use the same layout of components.

A violation would be chopping out the torso and shoulders of V4, cleaning up the edges, remapping it and calling it a t-shirt. The difference being that in the hack and slash method you are using the original topology...not your own mesh.

The case when shrinkwrap/retopology would be a violation would be if someone were to use it to copy an original mesh volume to create a competing figure, as in shrinkwrapping/retopologizing  a mesh onto V4 then passing off the resulting mesh as a new figure.

Folks, if any of you think that the above assessment is incorrect then you need to report every single item of clothing ever made for any Poser figure as a copyright infringement because every item whether made through retopology, shrinkwrap modifiers or pure hand placement of polys follows the contours of the original figure it was created for to a large degree, otherwise it would not fit the figure.

@pjz99

Appropriate response, your take on it was pretty much what I read in the post from the non-modeler too.

Oops, I meant to add - shrinkwrap is not typically in my toolset either, although I'm not afraid to use it.  It has pluses and minuses, and is often more trouble than it's worth.

Good info Bob, thanks.

I could do more work, but it's good enough, apparently. grin

The shader is attached - remove the .txt from the file name when you download it.

There are four parameter nodes on the left.

PM:Gamma (Auto) = 2.2 - Automatic shader GC, which turns off in Poser Pro when render GC is enabled. If you don't want it at all, set this to 1.

PM:Color = TAN - The basic color of the material. Mottled variations are automatically produced. If you want to use a color map texture, add an Image_Map node and plug it in here.

PM:Fuzzy = 1 - The fuzziness - makes the response to light at various angles change dramatically. At 0, it won't be fuzzy, but more like a buffed suede with some soft specular. Increasing this will slowly increase the fuzziness. The default value = 1, but you can push it further than that.

PM:Mottled = 1 - The mottling due to the tiny fibers being pushed around, and also produces some color variation. If set to 0, there will be little to no mottling, and will look like Ugg boots. You can push this past 1 but 2 is about the max that works before things go haywire.

This requires matmatic 1.1 or higher.

Note that the basic shader itself is only about a dozen nodes.

The majority of the nodes are simply different curves to control all the parameters. If I did not do all that, then to produce logically consistent variations, you'd have to adjust 8 or 9 things at once.

But with the different bits of math to vary those in consistent ways, all you need to think about is color, fuzziness, and mottling. The big pile of nodes doesn't make it complicated to use - it makes it easier to use. Without them, the user who wants more or less fuzziness would have to adjust a bunch of parameters instead of just 1, and he/she would need to know how those parameters vary with fuzziness - some are non-linear - you can't just double them when you want twice as much fuzziness.

That sure is a great looking suede.

One of the things I like about procedural patterns is they hold up well to close inspection. If you try to get this kind of detail in a texture alone, you have to make it huge. Notice also how the shader responds to light. One of the gray boots here is almost completely in shadow. Without GC, that boot would look too dark and have little to no variation in luminance.

One of the things I like about procedural patterns is they hold up well to close inspection. If you try to get this kind of detail in a texture alone, you have to make it huge.

Notice also how the shader responds to light. One of the gray boots here is almost completely in shadow. Without GC, that boot would look too dark and have little to no variation in luminance.

I hear you, I'm just realistic in that 95% of Poser users (if not more) do not use gamma correction (hell, a lot of them don't even use shadows) - lemme think about it.  Great shader though.

They don't need to use GC. It's built into the shader automatically. If they use render GC it will turn itself off. If they don't use or have render GC it will turn itself on. The built-in GC makes it look right regardless of whether the user is using GC or not.

If it's really a problem, set the PM:Gamma (Auto) node to 1, and there will be no GC, but there will also be incorrect appearance, particularly the soft specular of the buffed suede in a dark color.

======

As I told Paul in PM, you all can feel free to use this in products. It is a free merchant resource. Make whatever money you can from it. Just don't sell it by itself as a shader - it has to be in a product with a mesh. And you have to say you got it from me in your readme.txt.

Yeah that's the thing, if the user isn't into GC then the single item would be quite bright but everything else in their scene would not.  Right or not, "the nail that sticks out gets hammered".  I'll set it to 1 if I distribute it (probably will) and your constraints are not a problem, thanks.  Very generous.

On the left, the shader GC is off (=1). On the right, the shader GC is on.

It's a dramatic difference.