To those of us that are Considering the purchase of LipsInc's Mimic: The CD arrived to our homes and businesses in a CD cover made of flimsy cardboard. The program required that you have the disk in the CD-ROM Drive at startup. Empirical data and Logical reasoning would show that these 2 aspects combined create a high risk of damaging the CD from scratches due to constant use. In addition, we could not protect our CD by copying it as a backup, as it was protected through special software. When we enquired to the company about replacing a damaged CD we were told in no uncertain terms that if the CD was damaged, we were responsible to pay another $195 for a new disk. When we banded together and complained about their policy, they seemed to realize that not supporting their product was both unfair and not good for business. Over a week ago, we at this forum were told by LipsInc that there would be a policy put in place, allowing those of us who have purchased MIMIC to recieve a replacement disc in the event that the CD was damaged. As of yet we have heard nothing. While they sit in silence, we continue to purchase their software on faith that they will come through, while they have not extended that same good faith to us, not trusting any of its end users. I will admit that the product is good, but a good product with no support is the same thing as a bad product. Every time I remove the CD from the Jacket, I worry that I am about ot lose my investment. I am not here to encourage or discourage any of my fellow artists from purchasing mimic. I only wish to make you all aware of the situation. Happy Posing. Aharon Rabinowitz

They said they would replace it. I believe them I just received my Mimic CD It came with an RMA sticker and bar code to enable me to return it for a refund, if necessary. Rabinowitz 165Kb

Funny Animation. Don't get me wrong, I think mimic is a great program, I just see LipsInc for what it is - A samll company that did some bad initial planning. There's a psychological principal called cognitive dissonance that causes people to be biased to a product they have already purchased so that they don't feel bad about the situation when all logic dictates that they are being screwed. Perhaps you should ask yourself why you trust them so much. The company has shown no faith in it's end-users and I don't see why I should have faith in them. As of yet, they have not put their damaged CD return policy in writing. When the time comes that your CD is scratched, your animations, though funny, won't pay for the new CD they never officially commited to giving you. You can feel free to believe that they will come through for you if you want, but untill it's in writing I'll continue to express myself, and to reserve my faith for people that earn it. Regardless, my intention was not to offend, but to make aware. Good luck with your posing. Aharon

Good luck to you too ... and be careful with that CD!

I don't think they are such a little company, have you looked at the prices for their high-end software? I don't think we'll have a problem with them replacing a cd that is sent to them. I have other things to worry about, at least they didn't put a dongle on it! Just use and enjoy it and keep emailing them to give you a guarantee in writing that they will replace it for you. Marque

Thank you for keeping us posted. I would like to point out however that though you say that you planned on working out the damaged CD return policy details later, when I contacted Lipsinc regarding this, the very opposite was indicated to me: "Mr. Rabinowitz - I understand your concern about the CD but we had to come up with a copy protection method and we decided this would be the least cumbersome of several possible options. That means that you will need to protect the CD from damage and abuse. Should the CD become damaged you would be responsible for purchasing a replacement." The above indicated a very different return policy than the one you are working on. It is for this reason I have been posting these messages. I'm glad to know it was all a misunderstanding, and that you will be backing up your product. I think mimic is a wonderful product. I just want to protect my investment. I look forward to the future of Mimic. Thanks again.

This is were the problem is , Some countries, like in Holland, we are allowed to have 1 backup copy of anything, which is also kept original by the same person like,like VHS/CD/MC/ en also Software are fallen under these rules. Protecting software from making a backup is , basicly not allowed, according these rules. As long as the companies make sure that i get a new CD when i send mine back, no problem.. Greetz P.s. More info (btw) www.umac.nl

I WAS going to buy it after trying the Sample download,Now I am NOT so sure.

I don't understand why you have to Re-insert the CD EVERY time you use Mimic.That is ridiculous.Once it is downloaded that should be it.I mean Poser makes you Register it before it works,so why not Mimic?Also,if you need to insert a CD EVERY time(HOW RIDICULIOUS)NORMAL wear and tear will probably scratch it,so WHY can't I make MY OWN BACKUP COPY,if I PURCHASED it?I don't know if I should BOTHER to buy it or not.This has got me mad.I don't have the time nor Money(No matter how "minimal")to spend shippping stuff back and forth and WAITING to do my work.Get your act together guys.I am now not sure if I should invest my hard earned money on your product.

I'm glad that they require the CD to be in the harddrive and that you can't duplicate it. Perhaps this will stop the thieves and finally allow the developer community to lower their prices. Software thieves will never willingly stop ripping people off. Only measures like this will stop them. Don't buy it. I'm sure they'd prefer losing your business to having it stolen and passed around like leftover Halloween candy. They have assured us that they will replace any CD's that get screwed up. I imagine that this must really piss off people who are used to stealing everything that they want. Obviously they can't complain about that.. so they'll make silly threats about "not buying it" because of the restrictions. Ironically, despite the whining, this will be one of the few pieces of software they actually will buy. If they want it, they have no choice Haha

I have to say that if the pirates wanted to break this they would. Lots of game companies use this same protection, I know, I see it on all my newer game CDs. There is actually a web site for gamers to go d/l the crack so they don't have to keep the cd in the drive while they play. I don't worry about scratching a $50 game CD. I do worry about scratching my Lipsinc CD and so I will protect it, but it is nice to know they have decided to allow us to ship the old one back and get a new one if it becomes damaged. After all, how much does it cost a company to burn these CDs, once the program is written? So it is a good thing to work together to prevent piracy, but let's all be sane about it. Without Lipsinc, I would have a lot more work to do, without us, Lipsinc wouldn't have ANY work to do. =)

Still a ridiculous policy. Totally unprofessional. What happens if you are a professional on a deadline? Our deadlines are on a day to day basis. You will have to wait for postage to and from lipsinc, and clearance, and so miss the deadline and lose the client. You will also have to pay postage and packing. At least allow one backup copy so you can continue to work whilst replacing CD. Till then no thankyou.

Another point is if you keep this policy, lets say you do a Mimic version for Animation Master. This also requires a CD to be in the drive. What would happen then? Would we require glue to stick the CDs together or learn new juggling skills? On top of this most of our clients are in the publishing arena and are all Mac based, having invested hundreds of thousands in Mac hardware and software. These are looking to shift over to realtime publishing on the Web and in Digital TV (looking at our present projects). Mimic could well help these, but alas will only be available to them eventually, just when is eventually? Is that one week, one month, one year, one decade, one century?

If you don't feel comfortable don't buy it, it's as simple as that. Marque

How does Animation Master handle this problem if you have to have the CD in the drive while you use it? I don't know what you paid for your copy, but mine cost me $300, more than the mimic. Hope I get it today so I can play! =)

Hey Dillinger,you should LEARN to shut your face BEFORE making comments about people(me)you do NOT KNOW.I NEVER in my post said ANYTHING about stealing anything.I PAID for my Poser,Bryce,and Canoma.I bought them at a LICENSED Metcreations dealer,so please don't say crap about me or my morals.If you READ(can you?)my post you will see I say I PURCHASED my Poser CD.People who purchase ANY Program should be able to make "A"(1) backup copy FOR THEMSELVES!(Which I did with Poser)...for MYSELF!.Like earnest said, when you are on a deadline you DON'T have time to start shipping Damaged CDs back to a company and WAITING for a replacement to come back.When you are a WORKING professional you can't say to your client"Sorry,I have to wait for my replacement CD to arrive".They will fire you.I think to encode the CD allowing One backup is better than worrying about shipping damaged CDs back and forth.Also,why can't mimic have you REGISTER the product like Meta does in order for it to work,that will help stop anyone who didn't purchase it.And there is NO reason to keep popping in the CD EACH time you use the program.That only INVITES it to get damaged.I am all for protecting ones invention(a program)BUT when you enter the sales field and you are having PROFESSIONALS using your product,you need to consider HOW they will USE your product, and the best way to make it user friendly.Thank you.

If they allowed a single copy to be made, people would just clone that If you're such an important professional with megaclients, you must have multiple computers? Have you bought a copy for each of your machines, as required? That would hold you over if a damaged one was 'in transit'. Who are you to tell a software company that they have to abide by your expectations. Stop your whining and go use some other software if you can't hack the rules, you crybaby.

I'm glad to see that we're all adults here. In answer to your question, Dillinger, we are the endusers, the most important people that exist to a software company. If they don't listen to those who buy their software, they disappear. Plain and simple. This has been demonstrated over and over again. Beleive it or not, Poser 4 is a direct response the requests from poser 3 users - Metacreations saw people's postings at the original forum and tailored Poser 4 to the needs and wants of those people. Lipsinc had no return policy for damaged CD's until we at this forum raised hell, and now they do (see the previous post "By Popular Demand"). So you see, we do have power over them, as well we should. We pay, and they provide a service. If the service is not good, nobody buys from them. If they're smart, they figure out what's wrong and fix it. If not, they bottom out. One other thing. It's too bad that you aren't using your skills proffesionally, Dillinger. You'd understand that when your getting paid over $100 an hour for your graphic design skills, that even a few hours of not having the proper tools can result in loss of significant revenue, let alone 2 days of it.

Exactly, they responded to our concerns and have agreed to replace the CD's. Now people should be grateful instead of whining. If he's making $100 per hour he should have copies for all his computers. I wonder if that's the real reason he's complaining, not so much that it might get scratched.. but that he can't copy it and use it on multiple machines at the same time.

A couple of points: 1) Technically, you can use it on multiple machines at one time. You only need the CD in the drive to startup the program, so legalities aside, it's really not the issue. Regardless, you shouldn't have to buy more than one copy of software for one computer, which is what I have. 2) From what I understand about their copy protection, each CD has it's own signature, so you have to use the original CD you installed with. So multiple copies would still not help. Dillinger, what is it you have against your fellow artists, that you'd side with a software company that has to be badgered into giving it's endusers what is rightfully theirs. Yes, I'll admit that it would be nice to copy the CD - but you're right. They don't have to make it copyable if they don't want to. However, LipsInc showed a significant amount of disregard for our needs when the Damaged CD issue was first brought up. I'd be happy to send you a copy of my correspondence with them. You'll see that piracy paranoia ruled to the point that we were clearly not considered in the equation. We shouldn't have to, but in this world we need to fight for what's ours and what we want. Let me put it this way, if we can get them to make it easier on us to do our job, why shouldn't we ask. The worst they could do is say is no. And the worst that we can do is discontinue using their services. Asking for more is no reason for name calling. Especially when it doesn't directly effect you.

I think there's too much of people 'taking sides' in this world.. and spinning things to their own advantage, instead of trying to establish the truth. (i.e. Elian) I'm not 'against' fellow artists. If I had entered the fray when they were refusing to replace damaged CD's. I would have been all over them like Clinton on an intern. Don't they deserve credit for acquiescing to 'our' demands? Don't they have a right to try and protect their software, in light of the fact that the thieves are winning the battle. Of course their methods may be different than what we're used to. What we're used to doesn't work! In the end, if we can help the 'evil' software companies to protect their investments, it will benefit us (the honest ones anyway), through lower pricing

Do you give credit to someone that refuses to do their job until you threaten them with being fired, and then does it reluctantly? Obviously not. Yes they acquiesed, but only because they had no choice. Beleive it or not, a posting here carries weight, and they didn't want people to stop buying their product based on our reviews. When contacted on a private individual basis, they weren't so noble. Incidentally I give Mimic a lot of credit for coming up with an ingenious protection. But ask yourself why Microsoft doesn't do this. They are at the top of technology and more of their software is pirated than anyone elses. Personally I preffer MS's new method of protection - you have to call and get a confirmation number to install. They can tell if it is on a different computer. This way, there is no wear and tear on the disk, and you can't run the program without the personalized code. And yes, I support LipsInc's need to protect their investment, so long as they are willing to help protect mine. So to answer you're overall question - As long as Lipsinc provides a prompt exchange so that I don't lose time and money - I support them. When I see their new return policy posted, I'll feel a lot better.

Dillinger,you need to GROW UP.I am NOT the only one that feels this way.You got nerve making judgements about me.If someone who PAYS for his/her copy of a program has to INSERT the CD EVERY time they need to use it,eventually it will wear out or scratch.There is NO reason why ONE copy can't be made as a backup for the users PERSONAL use.We can't WAIT for a FEW DAYS to get a replacement CD.We will LOSE customers.And why should we HAVE to buy MULTIPLE COPIES of the SAME PROGRAM no matter HOW well off we are or are not.Like I said earlier,Lipsinc could either A.)Make the CD make One Backup,and or B.)Have the PURCHASER REGISTER the PRODUCT in order for it to be used.Simple.One more thing,Dillinger,it is OBVIOUS you are a kid and have NO idea about Running a Business,with Deadlines and such.You also should shut your trap calling people names and judging them.Renderosity is a COMMUNITY,not a forum to call each other names and judge,like little kids.The fact that I am 6'2,280 and a semi Pro BB,doesn't mean I have the right to call people names or threaten them,I don't need to,so why do you?Grow up,and IF you are over the age of Eighteen,take some meds for your condition.You have alot of anger inside.Good luck.

Perhaps they could adopt the approach of Cubase. They supply a floppy with the CD that has to be inserted after software installation. This places a key on the hard drive so that the software in question will only run on that drive and you no longer have to keep installing the floppy. The problem is if your hard drive is erased you lose the key. But Cubase have thought of this allowing the floppy to install the key twice. Then you can send away for a new floppy returning the old floppy to get back the two keys. Allowing you to continue work. You can also uninstall the key back to the floppy and take the software to another machine (a new MC). Without the key on the original MC the software will not work. So it only works on one MC at a time. Hope this makes sense. The issue here is that if the CD becomes corrupt/scratched/damaged you have to stop work and wait for a replacement and could lose the client as a result. This is what concerns me about animation master also. The ability to continue to work. I have spent a fortune on software and am all for legal software. It is tax deductable and VAT deductable. I hope that Software companies come up with a solution to enable users to carry on working and prevent piracy.

If I were a software company and I had reversed my position regarding replacing CD's, only to have people posting banner headlines in all caps implying that my company was 'fraudulent'..and posting messages urging others to consider me the 'enemy'. If people refused to give me 'credit' for responding to the concerns of the community, I would stop trying to help that group. You want me to "walk the walk"? I'm speaking my mind and the truth. You're the one who is twisting my position into 'badgering'... simply because I won't 'pile on' with some others who are unjustly persecuting a decent company. As for Mac's, all the Flash related software I've recently bought is available only for PC. Some of these companies have announced that they have no intentions of making versions for the Mac. This is due to the high expense required for a 'shrinking' market and also due to 'proprietary' restrictions self-imposed by Apple. I suggest a second computer. A PC.

Yea Gear!

Has anyone noticed,why Mimic has not RESPONDED to ANY of these RECENT postings.I guess we have a valid point.It must be those "stock" answers that were given earlier don't work any longer.I fully understand that a company HAS to protect their programs,and they should,but there are better,easier ways to do so.Mimic can easliy have the purchaser of their product(which is good,from the samples I have seen)REGISTER the CD with a serial number before it will work.BUT,not allowing the OWNER,i.e. Original Purchaser,make a backup,NOT illegal copy to sell(Which is what I said ALL along Dillinger,Also Nobody in this Forum to my knowledge used the word "Fraud"to describe Mimic{Where do you get these fantasies?},you also say Mimic changed its policy,which was a JOKE to begin with,if they didn't at LEAST say they would replace it, they would be OUT of business.Telling arabinowitz that he would HAVE to lay out ANOTHER $195 if the CD got scratched from putting it in ,over and over,is not only BAD business,and a ripoff,but a sure way to see their company go bye-bye)is ridiculous.IF,and I say IF the CD gets damaged from puting it in OVER and OVER(Which Pros must do)It is not only inconvenient,but COULD,cost a job if the customer doesn't want to hear that you had to ship the CD back to the manufactor for a replacement.Come on!That don't fly in business.Another Easy solution could be allow the OWNER(Legal,of course)make one backup copy.Now Mimic,what do you have to say?

Dear LipSinc I hope that you continue to produce awesome software despite the whining of a few ungrateful people Thanks for agreeing to replace CD's that might become damaged. Please don't change your mind about that, although I wouldn't blame you after hearing the response to your gesture. Sorry about the 25 banner headlines ; (LIPSINC'S SILENCE SCREAMS THE TRUTH!!!!!) Some phonies won't even acknowledge that this implies anything negative about your company.. and they continue to make derogatory statements about your intentions... even though you've already come into this forum a number of times to reassure them.

All this concern over a scratched CD is kind of funny. How many of you have scratched CD's? Let's see a show of hands? Now, I'll admit that 3d is a hobby of mine and not a profession, but I am in real estate and use a variety of software that requires the CD's, which I've been changing and changing over and over and I've never had a problem. They have to protect themselves; you can't trust a consumer. Look at what mp3 has become--anybody can download any song and the artist, the one doing all the work, is hurt. If this policy does put Lipsinc out of business, like some of you suggest, that would really stink because I just got the software and like the way it works. And if you do have a problem with a lot of scratched CD's, I suggest buying a CD repair kit.

It has happened with my favorite music CD's but never to my software. And that's because NONE OF MY SOFTWARE REQUIRES ME TO PUT THE CD IN THE CD-ROM DRIVE EVERY TIME I USE IT! Until now. One more time- I fully respect the software protection that Lips Inc has placed on their CD. They have the right to do so. All I want is to know that if it should happen that my CD is damaged from constant use, I'll be covered for it. It's been almost a month since they said they would change their policy, and we still haven't heard an answer from Lipsinc. They've told us twice that it would be taken care of, but how long can something like this take? Even if it takes time to execute this why haven't they posted anything official on their website? - Even if it just says: we guarantee our customers that we will replace the damaged cd, we are currently working on an action plan to initiate such a service. All they've done is promised us on this forum, but that's not official. I don't agree with some of the extreme statements made in this string, But I do think we have the right to protect our investment. Dillinger- You were obvoiusly looking for a fight when you made the animation depecting me as a whiner. I'm sure this wasn't your intention, but I actually thought it was funny in an ironic sort of way. I know that you have faith that they will come through, but untill it's official, I can't have that same faith. I don't know how much business experience you have, but in the real world (and it's unfortunate) someone's "word" means nothing. Something that is leagally binding (i.e. on paper, posted on a website) is all that matters. As for your letter of apology to LipsInc - The person who has kept this anti LipsInc string going for so long is YOU. You made this personal from your initial posting responding to me, and you incited the members of this forum by name-calling and accusations of piracy. A NOTE TO LIPSINC - I am sorry if my initial statements in this string cause you to stop manufacturing software for poser. I would hate for that to happen. Mimic is a good piece of work, but you need to understand that we can't buy software that isn't protected from damage in some way. I realize that you had to protect your CD from piracy. I only wish you had found a way to do that while protecting the CD too. Some members of this forum would like to make us out to look like babies who are upset that they can't have their own way, but I know that as business people you understand that losing the tools of your trade means losing time, money, and clients. ~Aharon

As one who does not yet own Mimic I feel awkward about posting. But Oak77's question is too interesting to pass up. Frankly, I have damaged CDs. Thus far only audio CDs. Empirically, this makes sence. One has to insert an audio CD every time one wants to play it, whereas software CDs are typically installed once (yeah yeah clip art CDs go in and out too, but not as frequently as I switch Audio CDs). In forcing a consumer to increase usage, a company is increasing wear and tear. To not have a supportive return policy does seem unreasonable. BTW, that's all these postings have been about. Return policies. I think some people shoudl stop accusing the world of software piracy. I'm going back to 3D modeling now, all you character animators have fun and play nice. Roni Charnov

Exactly Roni.NOBODY said LipsInc should not protect their programs.They should and are crazy not to.The Problem was/is that there may be OTHER BETTER ways to do so,SO EVERYONE is happy :) Not having a Policy Posted Officially on their site after PROMISING to do so,makes me see why Aharon mentioned this,so far he has not been proven wrong by LipsInc.Aharon and alot of OTHER people(don't blame him for starting ANYTHING)including myself NEVER suggested ANYTHING about piracy.We all(I know I have,and I'm sure everyone else here)has PAID for their programs they use.Dillinger seems to harp on stealing(guilty conscious from the past maybe?)and saying consumers don't have RIGHTS when they spend LARGE amounts for software.To ask for a fair,reasonable,common sense approach to warranty a product is NOT selfish or whiny.There ARE other simpler ways to Protect ones software,I mentioned Registering the CD and making that a pre-requisite in order for it to work.Also,letting only 1 Backup copy that has to be used on the SAME MACHINE is possible also.Opinions aside,no matter what form of protection LipsInc uses WHERE IS ANY SO CALLED WARRANTY?They have NOT done as they promised Aharon and the rest of the forum.It IS a GREAT PROGRAM,can't they at least make this right?Why can't ALL companies SUPPORT their customers,like MetaCreations did when the LIPSINC MIMIC program made the Poser characters feet go screwy,POSER made a patch for LIPSINC error.THAT IS CUSTOMER SERVICE,plain and simple.Aharon owes NOBODY an appology.LipsInc,so far,has made the TITLE of this forum true so far.

It is OBVIOUS Steve Wright from Mimic does not care what we have to say.Maybe his company will when we dont spend our money there.His silence IS screaming the truth.Too bad.They are getting a bad rep,online for their so called "service"

You seem tense? May I suggest a blueberry enema?

LOL.You seem like a kid,may I suggest a nap? :)

For free online lip sync using text and phonemes, check out http://www.fantasy3d.com/phon/posersync.html This is just a simple web page, nothing sophisticated. The output will still need to be tweaked to get the lip synch to look good, but, hey, it's free. ===Underdog===