Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1131237

Well, I guess you're going to get a lot of this now that everyone knows that Corel is holding onto Bryce to kill it. It's unfortunate that this is starting to avalanche but what we probably need to do is answer this post with a positive alternative on how to import Poser objects into Bryce using Grouper and show them how relatively easy it is and then direct them to the Bryce post where the users are pro-actively discussing the Brycian future. Perhaps also direct them to outstanding gallery images of Poser/Bryce where Im sure theyll be totally awed.

Zhann, Let 'em talk all they want. In the words of the Immortal(or isthat immoral) Bowser "I don't care what people say," Bryce ". . . and roll is here to stay."

No! Bikermouse, you'd be killing off possible future buyers and users of Bryce. That attitude is negative. I know the sense of pride we all feel for Bryce but we must temper ourselves against adversarial negativity. We must push ahead helping others to see the greatness of our program of choice and its abilities. Mightier than thou attitudes will not win us friends or favors.

There are things that Bryce does well, and things that Vue does well. I have both, and actually started in 3D with Bryce 2. Upgraded through Bryce 4, and when 5 came out, I noticed Vue 4. I tried the demos of Bryce 5 and Vue 4, and decided that Vue 4 was better for my needs. I have since upgraded to Bryce 5, but I won't lie and say that Bryce 5 is my first choice. I use both, and both have their place.

One fact about Bryce (and it's interface) Some love it. Some absolutely hate it. This has been going on since it came out. And, will forever continue whether or not it is being updated or collecting dust at Corel. Some people do their best work in watercolors, but suck when it comes to using oils. Bryce will fit easily over the brains of some, and completely frustrate others. Nothing you can do about but, offer advice and not take it personally. AS

I will always use Bryce it is an awesome Program,I want to be able to do Human animations in Bryce and soon I will be able to,I also want to get Vue just because I have seen what it can do...So in my opinion(which really doesnt mean Squat)Each to his own and get Both Programs....

Tried the demos of vue. Prefer bryce. Even with Poser, I prefer bryce. Love the interface.

P.S. I have both!

Negative? No way!

Bryce has one of the best interfaces if you ask me! There i have a clear view of the whole object from every direction, while in the high ends, you mostly have to watch 4 tiny screens and do a lot of zooming.

Rochr, Well you have the equivalent of the four views here with all the different cameras in Bryce - just not all at the same time. I tryed the demo of vue and I was never impressed enough to buy it, but I guess it might have some advantages in shrubs and weeds - nothing you can't figure out how to import from another program like xfrog. I think overall Bryce does it better.

Totally agree with Bikermouse. I tried the vue demo, and then bought the b5 upgrade. Just could not get on with vue. Bryce rules OK

In the Vue demo, I actually liked Vue's out of the box skies more than bryce's, and views out of the box plants looked better than anything I had gotten out of bryce up to that time.... but then I actively started playing with the tree generator and I saw how AS added real leaf shapes to the tree models that bryce could make.... and for scene layout, one view at a time works fine for me, so that was that.

I posted the text below to the Vue thread; I repost here in case anyone is interested. >> I can't look at four panes at once, so for me, flipping quickly through the panes with `1234 (really SENSIBLE choices of hot keys for once; compare the stupid ones in Poser) actually works better. What I find difficult with Vue is positioning objects correctly for interiors (which is what I do mostly). With Bryce it is very easy to build a wall and turn it exactly 90 degrees. It is harder in Vue (or I didn't discover the easy way). As for Poser figures, once you figure out the optimum strategy, you find that the Bryce route is actually better. The trick is to stop thinking about trying to import textures from Poser. The Poser4 texture engine is pathetic; ignore it. Import your untextured figure into Bryce and then use the much better Bryce material editor. With the Grouper utility, you can import a mesh that has only so many parts as will have different materials (typically about 6). OK, so Vue can import from a .pz3 file, but just try and retexture the figure in Vue using the Vue material editor - just try it! So you're stuck with whatever you get out of Poser. So I uninstalled Vue and went back to Bryce. I might go back to Vue someday for doing pure landscapes (which I do think it's better at), but for my current work Bryce is better.

I have both, and use both, personally I prefer Vue over Bryce, but, but, there are some things that Bryce offers that Vue does not and visa versa....enjoy what you have and what you like. Sharen

I just think that person's post was made because they don't know how to use and and have not taken the time to learn the app fully. No one 3D app does it all, and it boils down to user preference. Like Sharen said, enjoy.:-)

Bikermouse, Thats what i mean, "Not all at the same time." Ive played with Lightwave some time ago, and although its modeler is probably one of the best there is, i never liked having 4 small views on the screen instead of one. Sure, you can resize the actual viewscreen, but when flipping between views, theres a lot of dragging, pulling etc. I personally prefer Bryces system where i can move the cam around for rough positioning, and use the other views for exact ones. Suits me much better. But this is just my personal opinion! I have nothing against Vue or any other 3D app.

Rochr said: "There i have a clear view of the whole object from every direction, while in the high ends, you mostly have to watch 4 tiny screens and do a lot of zooming." errrmmmm, most, if not all programs that have adopted the 4 view port interface allow you to use any view port as a single large window. It's called flexability ;o) You dont have to look at 4 tiny screens, if you dont want to. Cheers

Rochr, Yes, As to which application is actually better is, I think, largely a matter of choice. As you, Humorix, Agent Smith and a few others have proven Bryce will go well beyond what the casual user would even think was possable. Although I don't hang on the Vue forum I'm sure that there are those who are capable of great things in that program just as there are those who do great things here. My own reasons for using Bryce are basically that I was exposed to it first, the interface is easy for me to understand, and I am comfortable using it. In Bryce if there is something I don't understand I can, given the time and imagination, figure it out - and there is always someone who will take the time to help with the rough spots. On top of that I feel that we have one of the best communities on the net both in terms of moderators and members - (of course this is personal opinion).

Well, i never found that feature in the Lightwave ive tried (5.0 i think), and i did some serious digging in the menus. Youre probably right, but in that case, why not put the buttons next to the view ports...? Would make more sence! As i said, i prefer Bryces interface!

AgentSmith said "One fact about Bryce (and it's interface) Some love it. Some absolutely hate it." If Doc and pandromeda do get their hands on Bryce perhaps we could have two view options built into Bryce, ie. Classic view the one we all know and love, and default like the 4 pane view that a lot of 3der's prefer, or visa versa. I don'think this would be such a hard thing to achieve, then what do I know about the complexities of programming. It's times like these that I start thinking about taking up a computing course. Cat

I used to use Bryce 4 with Poser, now I use Vue due to the ease. I am thinking of getting the B5 upgrade, the Depth of Field seems so much easier to use than Vue's, but in all honesty I don't really use B4 much now so probably wont. I like the looks from both programs' renderers. I am astounded by the things I see people do in BOTH programs, just because one may not tickle your fancy is no reason to try to stop others from using and enjoying. I do like the sound of a Mojoworld/Bryce hybrid though, as I also have Mojoworld and find it tricky, nice pics, but oh so tricky. Let's all just play happy together :) Just a couple of points from reading through the thread. Phantast, you can adjust any material part of a .pz3 import in Vue independantly at any time you want using the display summary, which shows ALL materials used (ie, head, body, eyeball etc) as shown in the pic (a Vicki 3 import). Rochr, you can also have the single pane window in Vue if you want instead of the four view. Apologies for the long windedness :)

Rochr; just a note.... In Lightwave's modeler with the 4-viewport configuration: place your curser over your viewport of interest and hit "0" on your numeric keypad. Boom... full screen. "0" again, 4 views. "a" fills the screen with your selected object. (LW 6 and up anyways, never had any earlier versions.) Just defending the LW faith :)

krimpr, Thanx for the tip. Its a great modeler! (even better if your tip works on v5.0) :)

. . . . I think what it boils down to is the individuals artistic abilities! Purchasing any program and relying on preset selections to create a scene, as in the "jungle" statement, does not an artist make. . . . if the application can't make it happen . . . you should be able to make it happen! i.e., creating your own 2d objects & textures etc. . . . . adapt and create!!!

I totally agree nuski, it's what I do every day in Bryce and I enjoy working on the problem and finding my own solution. Then singing Haleluia at the top of my voice. 8) Cat

I always believed that if a future Bryce could have the ability to have fully customizable/savable view panes (how many, how big, and location), AND the ability to switch (back & forth) it's left side movement icons to more stereo typical user (number) fields...THEN more non-Bryce users would consider buying it. I persoanlly, would also want an option to turn off that stupid auto-hide bar at the top, lol. But, yes you people are correct, doesn't matter what tool you use, its what you can do with that tool that ends up being all that really matters. And, I wouldn't want to live in a world without Vue, since competition is almost always the best inspiration...;o) AS

Since I made the "jungle" statement, I will respond and try to keep the offense taken to nuski's statement to a minimum.

My problem with Bryce 5 and the tree lab lay in the fact that I had 20 images to complete within a timeframe and using Bryce for an overgrown jungle was wholey inefficient. It took me 8 hours to complete only the shrubery of the forest floor using Bryce. This due to that fact that I did not want any of the 'ferns' in the scene to be the same.

I admit that I do rely on material and tree object presets to get me going. But if Metacreations (and then Corel) have supplied you with a material that works or a tree shape that needs only a little tweaking, then why not use it. If that makes me a non-artist, then so be it. And looking at nuski's gallery I can see that a preset material is not present there. I applaud you.

As has been said many times in both forums (and now twice by myself) Bryce and Vue are both great programs with different strengths and weaknesses. I love Bryce for the DTE, volumetric materials and the variety of manipulations available in the terrain editor. I love Vue for the ease of Poser imports, the skys and the efficiency of vegitation creation.

Both programs have room to grow. And both can learn from each other. I agree wholeheartedly with AgentSmith in regard to competition. I feel a world without Bryce OR Vue would only hurt the surviving program. I apologize to the die-hard Bryce lovers if my comments about Corel were mis-interpretted as 'good ridance.'

Well, you can always create one shrub in Bryce and then rotate it to get different views. :-) And the 5.01 patch gives you real tree presets. Not that quasi-apple you get with the original 5. As to the viewpanes, I play with Rhino and love the way you can get the full-screen of a view by double clicking on the name of the view. Returning back is again done by a double click. Right click chooses the view. Very nice and consistent. BTW, the thread over there prompted me to download the demo of Vue. Okay, it has disabled saving. But why should it stop completely functioning after 30 days then? Bad E-on, bad! Take Maxon and Cinema 4D as your role models. No saving but you can play till kingdom come. I'd also like to rant about Net installation, but E-on did provide a complete download. :-)

Enforcer- My initial statement read. . ."I think what it boils down to is the individuals artistic abilities!" Why must everyone (myself included ) be so defensive! If I implied that anyone that uses presets is not an artist, please accept my apology! I use presets whenever it is necessary. The point that I intended to make is that an individual's artistic experience and ability plays an important role in the creative process. Having the ability to create a texture from scratch, is more fulfilling than using presets. I enjoy using Bryce, but I have never used the tree editor. . . . have no desire to! I find it confining! I also rarely use procedural textures. . . If the topic of a challenge was to create a jungle scene, I would explore the presets first and then design additional textures to my specifications. That's just the way I am!! As far as the absence of artists page presets is concerned, perhaps I could free up some time to post and share my textures. . . .just haven't got around to it! However, I have tried to participate in the forum community by sharing several of my experimental techniques with everyone. To conclude. . . . . I never meant to offend . . . . in the future, I will try to post some textures. . . . and I completely agree with your last two paragraphs . . . .there is no good or bad. . . . .we use whatever we have to . . . .to the best of our abilities. . . .to get the job done. : )

Time for me to apologize. I did get a bit defensive. I see from your your second post that no offense was meant and therefore no apologies are nescessary. I guess what set me off was the "does not an artist make." Though I would never claim an adjective to be supplied at the front of that word when describing myself (i.e. 'Good Artist' :) I find it condescending and a bit arrogant when an "artist" tells another that they are not one. Please understand this interpretation of your statment was likely due to my own biases and they are not an excuse for my defensiveness. Let's keep up the helpfull spirit and all have fun doing what we love.

Man I love the Bryce forum, you people really keep my job easy, lol. Thanks! AgentSmith

Boy, did I open up a can of worms...:]

raven, yes, you can, but look at what you have shown: those are only some of the skin materials - you could have shown rows more for each of the finger joints. Now let's say you want to alter the specularity - you have to do it for EACH skin material. Takes far too long. By contrast, with my imported obj file in Bryce I have all the skin parts in one mesh and changing the material properties is one edit. Probably you can do the same in Vue, i.e. import a Poser figure as an obj file for the same flexibility, but then the ability of Vue to import from pz3 becomes redundant.