gud day, i do not intend to offend anybody but i do want to pour out my sentiments for the ongoing onslaught agaist the talent and artworks the WE the Brysters do. I've surfed recently, and tried to look at the forums of numerous sites with regards to tutorials on using 3dmax since im trying my best to learn the product, when i stumbled on a certain thread tha goes on like this... Bryce? or MAX? obviously bryce is no match for MAx... but i was offended (indirectly) with what other see in us Brysters! upon reading all the comments I to a conclusion the the other 3D artist regard US as... hobbiest or even less, and not an equal 3D Artist! Now i may be wrong thats why im posting this tread because it pains me to think that all those sleepless night of thinking and modelling is useless because im not REALLY a 3d artist, just aother guy pretending to know 3D when in fact he does not... This is what they have to say: 1.Bryce is and easy way out program that does not reall do any great 3D art, it a Pretend 3D program 2.People who uses bryce are not really talented coz they use to create images the EASY way 3. Brysters are not really 3d artist, digital artist maybe, but not 3d Artist. 4. Learning Bryce is pointless and just a waste of time 5. Bryce has never been recognized as good program to use on creating great images... 5 years or well it could have been good, but now? its child's play. They had a few more comments but thats how i could summarize all of it... i hope anybody can enlighten me on this coz it really offends me... (Forever loving bryce no matter what!) EYECON

They've never used Bryce or if they have they haven't looked far enough into what Bryce is capable of. I use Rhino, Maya, and Bryce.........so because I use Bryce does that make me a hobbyist?, I don't think so. Another point is that although I use these other "high end" apps Bryce is still may favourite. So they can stick that in their pipes and smoke it.....as my grandmother used to say. Catlin

Just trolls, Art comes from artists not software, paint or any other medium out there. Are ya enlightened now? ; )

And the response to them is...... 5 minutes, you and me, one terrain, textured and exported, you use 3dsmax, i use bryce. Ready...Set......GO!!!!!! <5 minutes later? maxer: uhh. here's what i got: (grayscale blob goes here) brycer: Good try, here's what I made: (high res eroded fractal terrain with altitude texture goes here.) maxer: so, how long have you been using bryce? brycer: 5 days, you? maxer: uhhh, 2, maybe 3 years. Uhh, beginner's luck i guess based on a real experience.

Completely agreeing with that, a good carpenter does not blame his tools. With MAX you have a very expensive toolbox, but are you still the person to use it, because it has to be right between the ears. No talent is going to make it very hard to get the most out of Bryce or Max. Personally i don't care if max-users look down upon us Bryce-users, its a kind of sad actually that they are doing that.

Bryce is a tool, just like pen and brushes are tools for creating art. The tools can't do anything without a creative intelligence using them. Just because you use very expensive, high end tools, doesn't mean you're an artist....the creative spark must be there also, I've seen really awesome art created with just a piece of caulk on a sidewalk...you can sometimes caulk (no pun intended) these types of comments up to ignorance of Bryce in general...

Ok I am an hobbist, and so?......

Yahhhh... Sigh. I run into this silly argument or comparison made by the uneducated and the lazy from time to time. I'm a Lightwave and Rhino user who also enjoys using Bryce. I agree... Its just a tool and I think its a darn good one at that. If you put the effort in you can get masterful work from either 3D Studio Max or Bryce. Don't put the effort in and you get crap from both. All you can do is try and politely correct those with the miss conception and ask them what the heck they are doing comparing Bryce to Max in the first place. Sometimes they'll listen and sometimes they won't. As you say... The type of work that each is geared toward producing is so different that comparing them is just plain silly.

Yeah, that old chestnut of an argument. It's not entirely their fault, lol. There is a certain mind set that can come with spending $3,500 on (anything) a piece of software. You're going to think highly of something you spend that much money on. And, also rightly so, 3DSMax is one of the most popular/best pro 3D pieces of software, has been for quite some time. I've gotten comments from some high-enders that tell me I need to move on to a "real" program. They can't wait to see what I would do when I "stop playing", etc. All I can suggest is to search and find your inner Kung-Fu-Monk; take a deep breath and take it in stride. And, what really muffles the minority of nay-sayers is when you can produce work (with your toy) that rivals their own... BUT, any real high-end professional, that truly cares anything about art, 3D, AND about other people learning the craft of it all...Do Not care what you start with, do not mind what programs you are using, but care about what you do with what you have. There is MUCH to be learned from computer generated art (of any kind). A lot of it doesn't require a certain named program. And, honestly, the majority of us ARE hobbyists. Some just happen to own expensive hobby's, lol. Point is - I never looked at paintings and wondered if they used sable hair brushes or cheap nylon, whether or not it was made with generic oil paint or a top of the line medium. I either like the painting or not, I enjoy the picture, not the companies name on the tools used to make it. Find some grains of salt...and start taking them. ;o) AgentSmith

AgentSmith the wise has spoken! ;-) now I'll start ot search my inner monk... jokes apart, i agreee totally with you

Ditto!

Thanks for saving me the effort again Agent Smith! :) EYECON, go back to the Max forum and tell them this; Artists using the 'hobbyist' 'toy' known as Bryce have made the front cover of 3D World at least twice in the last 6 months, as well as for many commercial, and publicly visible jobs. There are a lot of things Bryce can't do for sure - but anyone who has spent any amount of time using the tools tends to be more ingenious because of it, and subsequently you'll see far more diversity and creativity in the average Bryce gallery than you generally do in Max! :) The only software that will ever matter is that contained between your ears and behind your eyes - everything else is just a tool wth varying degrees of usability.

Yep, it's the sort of ignorant comment that you get from people who look at price-tags instead of pictures. Enjoy your Brycing and let the snobs get on with their dick-waving :-)

Sounds like some Maxers are jealous of the sometimes superior to Max results we get in Bryce. Otherwise, why even try to make the argument in the first place. If Max is better than Bryce, then why waste energy writing about it...let's see the images! Really though, I can't get over this comparison: It's really all about "bang for the buck". Bryce comes out WAY ahead. Most of us would have started out with a package like Max if money were no object. But then we would have missed out on a great program. And if these guys are so professional, why are they wasting time in the Forums. They should be working on their next project.

i'm eyecon's best bud: comaparing bryce and max? are they crazy?, 8s like comparing a technical pen and an ordinary ball point? DUH! heloooooooo! analyze this....

this is eyecon... all your sentiments are mine too... such comparison is indeed stupid... and it is true... its not what you have its how you use it... me? ill continue using bryce even though im learning max, after all, bryce is much much challenging to use...

How about this one: Wasn't the original intention of the programmers to have Bryce be a terrain generating program? (Not 100% on this, but pretty sure about it) And...what was the intention of the MAX creators? Simply put, look at the things the BRYCERS have done with this "low-end" program in comparison. Look at the work of Rochr, Agent Smith, Pidgy, tjohn, Zhann, tuttle and the rest of this talented crew we have here. As vazquez said, "Ok I am an hobbist, and so?...... ". I'm a cop in an urban North Jersey City. If I took everything to heart that was said to me, I wouldn't be able to do what I do. Just let it roll off your back and know that you are better than they are and do not need to comment on what they do or how they do it. Simply put, just look where the comment is coming from.

Owning both, I use both, they're differing tools and I love them both. The most common reason I've come across for Bryce being regarding as a hobby product is that it's lacking in mesh modelling ability. However the light engine in bryce does some great things that are a nightmare in Max (realistic sunlight, true ambience, caustics...) As stated earlier in the thread it's not the tool it's the artist that makes the difference.

Why Knock someone elses' software, we like one thing they like another. What's the pay off? Could it perhaps be "SATAN"!? Let'm blow steam, they're just frustrated to the tune of $3500.00.

If most maxers are like me it's their company that's down 2500 not me as an individual

Trying to find art in a program is liking smashing open a piana and looking for the music.

Welll.... I say bring it on.... The truely offended folks always speak when they should be listening...I totally agree with everything above I also know that in order to get the Big Gameing jobs or into film the OWNERS of the big production houses and even the little gaming companies want all to know at least a high end program like Max or Maya or even Lightwave reason: 1.Animations and Low polygon modeling... 2.Effects(Now I agree we can get spectacular effects in Bryce) 3.Rendering Now before you all BITE my head off.... I am and always will be a Brycer I also will always try to find ways to get my Low Polygon Poser models into Bryce for some serious Animations(I want to do Matrix and Final Fantasy type of Animations in Bryce,I know I can too....)But Until I can either afford the Programm of Konans or figure out how to do it another way I am still looking at useing either Poser or Another Render to do the Animations and believe me I want to use Bryce because of its Lighting Engine no other program has the ease of use that Bryce has and if someone could come up with a PLUGIN to import Poser models and corresponding Textures right then we couls and would over take the higher end programs because we would be cheaper...I myself think we have more talented Artists here then I have seen in any Max forum and you all can Quote me on that... So with that said I say.... Smells like Challenge time..... Remember folks we can always import OBJ files that have been converted to low polys and then you can build your models and export as OBJ and UV map your textures and I also think I remember seeing one of our very Talented artist who did a tutorial on how to get your poser animations into Bryce....Cant remember...

The Venus de Milo was made with a hammer and chisel, not a Black & Decker............

couls=could So sorry.....As Always B3D

After having posted some of my images at 3D Total, and also their forums, i must say that those guys are very open minded and professional. OK, ive got one or two "you should really try blabla blabla", but other then that, they are mostly curious on how its done in Bryce, how the wireframe looks etc. Havent got anything but good feedback there. The few ones that screams, are usually the ones with limited talent and/or knowledge. But hey, as long as i find Bryce fun to work with, i really dont give a f..k of what they think. :)

Attached Link: http://dawnstarproductions.50megs.com

...they're just fixated on the "financial" size of their tools (not what they can actually do with them) (snigger!)

I was reading a drawing book recently, and the first few chapters were about knowing your tools. The author didn't care whether you were using typing paper and a ballpoint pen, or a quill and handmade paper, or even if you could draw, he just wanted you to experiment over and over to see what result you get with different tools. It's the same deal with software - different tools, different effects. If I had $3500, I'd probably take a vacation instead of buying high-end software! Lin

You already said what I wanted to say. So, count me in. Bryce rules... but, mostly, it's the brain :) S.

That's really funny!!! This is probably why I was NEVER against postwork. The end result is our goal, techniques and the media used are just bridges we have to cross. I used to think computer art wasn't real art, boy was I wrong! Yeah, max is an awesome program, but I still think Bryce is much more fun to use, and free for creativity, and not so tied up with technicalities. Let's face it, most of us here are hobbyists. Why pretend that we are pros??? If you were a pro, shouldn't you be selling your products instead of posting them here for free? What good is a hobby if you can't have fun with it. Bryce has given more people enjoyment, fun, and an outlet for creativity more than these other programs have... Just look at our Bryce forum and gallery, it's much more populated than max and maya combined.

Come-on, Guys! Are we Brycers or Brysters? I'm getting confused and worry that I may have a lot of alter-egos I didn't know about....! The Bryster

I am so sorry Aldaron I have the tutorial on my other machine and didnt have it handy...Awesome tutorial too i will give it a try very soon...

I totally agree with every single one of you. Many people get lost in the technicalities and forget what art is about, and what alvinylaya said about enjoyment, fun, and creativity is found amongst Brycers more than anywhere else, IMO. I find that the high end apps are hard work but Bryce is always a joy and I will always use it for that reason. Catlin

Hmm..I like both, but it was some of the Bryce galleries out there that got me interested in Bryce (most expensive wallpaper search I ever made), but to be honest, I haven't seen many Max galleries. Hey, as long as it's good art, I think the platform isn't as important as the talent that gets you there. I've seen wonderful stuff done with Bryce, and I'll see a lot more in the future..

REASONS WHY A LOT (most people) OF PEOPLE LOVE BRYCE: 1: Bryce is cheaper as a program (soon to be phased out since corel is not developing it and is contemplating on selling their company) 2. ABSOLUTELY, TOTALLY EASY INTERFACE! Darn! first time I saw and used bryce i already know how to use it... took me another 15 mins and i'm set to learn, create great images! while max... 3 months and i'm not even half way on the tutorial, and the MAx Bible? Ugh! total technicalities to the MAX! 3. Import models with ease... great lighting! fast posing etc... 4. more people (usually friendly ones) use it, and share their materials, skies etc. 5. We just simply love out little cute and cuddly Bryce, I love mine to the MAX! (no pun intended) I'm not agains any max or any high end user out there, i'm just angry at the ignorance that they have towards people like us, honestly i model using max or cinema4d to, but i never ever got egg headed and thought i was better that everybdy else, in fact the thought that i got was "wow! now i can share models to the Bryce Community, just like then sharing theirs to me....) tnx for all your responses... gud day

3D Studio Max is a high end software package geared for the high end broadcast quality modeling and special effects professional in the film and animation industry. Unless you have money to burn, the people that use these high end packages, intend to make their money back, plus profit, by producing for this market. Thats why these 3D packages are so technical in nature, they are intended for professionals. There is a high learning curve usually associated with these tools that often take years to master. Indeed the software is so rich in features that the average user will still be learning the basics even as the new versions are being pumped out. So I would venture to say that most of these folks spouting at the mouth are not professionals but immature kids with either lots of money to spend or people with pirated software. Their non-professionalism shows through when they open their mouths. Bryce, not being a high end product, is not crammed packed with the features of its more expensive cousins and that being the case, it lends itself easily for more creativity in shorter time. This allows the artist more freedom to be creative, spontaneous and be more improvising. Certainly, Bryce is a more user-friendly end product but it was never meant to compete with the higher end packages. The beautiful Bryce images that abound throughout the Internet is a testament to a class of affordable software which is both easy enough to use and yet challenging for both artist and hobbyist alike.

My only response to these people: If Bryce is so basic, why did they skip a head to a high end program before learning the basics? If they don't know these, how good could they really be with the programs they are using? Sounds more like they are upset at having spent $3500 so that they can produce something substandard instead of $99 to learn how to produce material of quality. I've been using Bryce for a couple of years, and there see,s to always be something to learn about it. Don't knock it until you try it.

Quest......perhaps you should give what you've said here to Corel for advertising Bryce, I can't see anyone putting the value of Bryce in better terms. Catlin

Come on Bulldawg, relax a bit, some of us use both, Bryce is a great program, I've been using it since version 2, however it is lacking in modelling ability, how many of the really great artists here (i'm not including myself here, but there are some great artists here, try pmoores or Rochr or Leo or ....etc etc) use another package to create meshes before import and rendering in bryce. Bryce has IMHO great terrain generation, and superb lighting/rendering, but I can make models in MAX in very short periods of time that I don't think I could make in years in Bryce. We're comparing vastly different tools that are both superb in different areas. (with regards to learning things - I only learnt today from Kromekat that I can target objcts with a spotlight in Bryce Lol, guess I've never really tried it)