I'm reading the article in new Renderosity magazine on the 3-Axis training package for Poser. It makes me wonder whether I should invest the time and money in becoming a more adept Poser user. One the one hand, I could learn a lot more and user Poser better, but I'm concerned about the software's future, and the possibility that something better is shortly going to be available, leaving Poser to fade into the woodwork. I base this concern on the basis of Curious Lab's well-known woes, and the rumors of DAZ3D developing its own software. Anybody have thoughts on this?

currently with the Poser 5 War (before anyone starts - ppl have probs with 5, some don't get over it..) causing a bad reputation in the community and business in general, (well, if we buy 5 will it work for us? etc), I'd say if Poser is to have a future then CL have a lot of ground to recover. First would be to fix the probs in 5 that cause it to work fine on some machines but crash and burn on others. (again - before anyone starts - this does need to be address and just not shouted down by the users that have no probs - we need to work together not be divided.) Right now, Daz are in the position where they can steal the entire Poser niche market from CL.. we live in interesting times... Kai

You've got a relevant point here, Pookah69. Poser does begin to seem a tad 'old-school'...it doesn't use hardware-acceleration, the rendering engine doesn't seem to get standing ovations, people experience very different program performances depending on their system setups or whatever, and as you relevantly state another program has announced its arrival in the near future. My guess: When Daz Studio hits the shelves, a lot of poser-people manpower will be going that way, at least to check the new program out, some will never look back and some will be using both programs. + if I understand correctly: Daz Studio basic package will be free, rendering engine will cost you, various plugins will cost you, etc. Most of us are financially challenged people who've allready shelved out way to much on the progs we have... Why not strive to learn more of Poser? If it serves you well, it should continue to serve you well, even if there are new things in the horizon. Do I make sense? I dunno, I'm kinda tired, must...go...drink...coffee... -Hanz

Dontcha just love these threads about Poser's future (grin) Poser has a future, of some kind. Since Daz Studio will incorporate a lot of what Poser is into itself, and since CL hasn't bit the dust yet, I think it'll go on for a few more years. Look at the number of memebers here, and I think more than half use Poser at some level. Many just use Poser to pose models and import them into other applications, but the need for this product is still here. Is P5 state of the art? No way, but it mostly works. Poser is still the only tool available for figure manipulation and posing in it's price range. Even if CL should fail, I think someone would buy the Poser licenses and code and continue it on (as has happened in the past). Should you spend time and money on learning more about it? Well, I'd avoid buying too much training, unless it's a specialized something you really need to learn fast. There's a lot of good tutorials available for Poser, all versions, for free. There's always the nice folks here who'll try to answer any questions you have. Sometimes even creating a tutorial for a specific request. As for spending time... Well, anything you learn about Poser will help with any other 3D product at the theory level. Again, learn according to your specific need. I wanted to learn how to model and conform cloths. A lot of hours went into me education to do that. It was worth it to me, because I was able to do things I hadn't been able to do before, and I was finally able to give a little back to the community here that's given me so much. So sure, Poser has a future. What it'll be is anyone's guess.

Thanks, Jim, (and others) for the thoughtful response. It is true that the best resource I have found are the people in this community, who are amazingly generous in offering their expertise. I was thrilled the other day that for the first time I was able to offer a solution to another newcomer!

One of the things I've learned that its the artist and NOT the tool. So learn more about the tools you have and grow as an artist. You will have the future even if the tools change.

One might as well ask if the sun will rise in the morning. I say that because with most things it really depends. It depends on how much effort a person or group is willing to apply to a thing. Poser choose your flavor, has come a long way since it's beginnings. Many things people take for granted were either not possible or not know as things that could be possible. I think the place place to look would be the users. What are they doing? What are they making? Just recently the maya doll came out (For free) and I have to say it is one of few that has been accepted by the poser community. And a user made it. So I would have to say that a good deal of people still belive in the poswer of poser and it's uses. More and more I see the P4 dork being used on TV. Just recently I saw him fully animated as a super hero for a promo of "Superheroes revealed". Even miss victoria has made a few appearances. It could be that "Real" animators as they may be called are starting to look at poser as a means to get things done. If that is true, then poser has a future. Now if you look at the current state of Curious labs one may get the dark feeling that the end is near. While it is possible, I think that there is always hope they can solve thier problems, get some focus as to what they want to do and get it done. I think if one looks only at one part of poser or the community then depending on what you choose to take as truth poser is dead or alive. If you look at the whole I think you may see that even in a down economy posert is still moving, The renderosity store still makes sales as well as DAZ and RDNA, maybe not as much as they would like to be sure. But few sales are better than none. The only thing I see as a possible end of poser is that people stop learning how to use it. Relying on canned poses and mat poses and lighting and cameras. Not experimenting with IK and material zones or texture mapping, or looking at morph targets could spell the end. For if no one learns then the program stagnates and dies because no one knows how to do anything. Poser, for the lack of a better word is a tool. With any tool the day one stops attempting to learn more about the tool and it other possible uses beyond what it was designed to do, but rather what it can do, it becomes less and less used. With constant learning and pushing the program and delving deeper into what it "might" do one will find more and the tool with remain a trusted and well worn one that you don't dare give up, because it is the stepping stone to other more complex tools. Had I not gotten into poser, My art would have ended. What I know about poser now allos me to understand how texture mapping, vertices, splines, normals, Joint perameters, IK, lumens work. For I would have never needed to, to get the look I wanted. With poser I honed my blocking and lighting and designs for sets. With poser I have been able to tell people the crappy fantasy stories I make up. None of this I could have done with 2D freehand. Now many can, and do well. But I got as far as my mastery of talent allowed me in freehand. Poser allowed me to go further and get things done. I'm still learning poser, likley I will always be learning poser. Why? Because I know there is more in this old application, I just have to go looking, and experimenting. So, is there a future for poser? Well, for me there is knowing what I know about it, and what I can get out of it. Perhaps the best question would be. "Based on what you have learned so far, is there nothing else to learn in poser? Has it given you everything it has?" I know I don't have clue. All I know is that there is more to know, and as long as there is more to know, then that would make a future....

Posers immediate future depends on the stabilty- usability and lighting of Daz's rival program. Probably never will make it to the movies.

I don't use poser for rendering that much. I tend to import into Bryce and use Bryce materials with poser textures as bump maps for metals, etc. I definately think there is a future for poser. As long as Maya and Studio Max cost in the thousands, As long as I have to be a rocket scientist just to build and rig a character using their interface poser will continue to be an attractive and low cost solution. I am starting to see poser in my sunday paper in adds. The future of poser lies in long term support to keep the hobbiest from graduating to maya or max as their skill level increases. This will involve freeing up the hold on morphs like DAZ keeps on Vicki to allow prodction of supporting products like conformable clothes. If the skill level is kept easy people won't go away when their interest declines or pocketbook expands.

7. The mystic response... by lalverson on 6/22/03 12:08
One might as well ask if the sun will rise in the morning. I say that because with most things it really depends.

That seems to be a worryingly depressive point of view on whether you/i/we/the planet/the sun will still exist tomorrow... I'd hope the answer was a somewhat more predictable "yes"!

As to whether POSER has a future - a great deal depends on what obne means by "Poser". Poser 4, for example, has been around for ages and will likely still be around for ages as a character front-end for otehr 3d applications if nothing else. Grief - Poser 3 is still creating new users (that I know of) with free copies on magazines. So at least Poser 4 seems to have a future, in as much as many people quite possibly won't need to replace what works for them (perhaps).

If you mean "The Poser family" rather than a specific program like "Poser 4" or "Poser 5", then still a hesitant yeeeees. Poser 5, like Poser 4 before it, is still riddled with issues - but like Windows itself the benefits generally outweight the problems for many people. Whether future Poser products will come from Curious Labs or the product line sold on remains to be seen, but CL HAVE put some effort into improving the product... even if there's still some way to go, especially in the "inspiring confidence" department.

If one means "Poser-like programs" then DAZ are working on one. No rumour, it's called DAZ Studio. While the beta seems to be taking a surprisingly long time to come out (it's been in development since January 2002 IIRC and the first version is to be known to be incomplete in terms of features) it's interesting in much the same way as Poser 5 was interesting at about this time last year. Forthcoming, soonish, has some interesting features. MIMIC 2 has recently arrived, and I'd be willing to bet there's some common code between the two applications - which is both re-assuring and dissapointing (in terms of how much of a PC you need for the MIMIC/Studio working preview to approach real-time). Being designed to be extendable from the get-go, DAZ Studio has the potential to be a very different beast to the traditional Poser line - but with as assured a future as is possible without glass balls :)

So from my POV that's "Yes, yeeeesssss (maybe) and YES! Poser in various guises has a future IMHO - though the Poser of tomorrow may resemble the Poser of yesterday less than expected.

Poser 4 and 5 are affordable, hugely versatile tools that you can use to learn about 3D figure posing, animation, lighting, materials, setting up and integrating a wide variety of elements into scenes, storytelling, experimenting with rendering styles ranging from comic book to realistic - more than any person can master. The future is that we use all that knowledge and experience with the next generation of tools, whether they be derived from Poser or something else. I started computer graphics with Illustrator 88 and have built on every application I've worked with since. If Poser is what you've got, decide what you now want to create with it and learn from it.

IMHO OpenGL is way overrated. If you think you have problems with a buggy program now, just wait til/if it goes to OpenGL which is totally dependent on your video drivers. At least Poser has control of its display now. I was moving a figure around the screen with full tracking on last night (in Poser 4..the 4-year-old program) and that little milkid looked alive! Yeah, Yeah, I know, transparency. I can live without it being displayed. As far as CL though. I don't know. Poser 5 is getting less buggy for sure, but it's just too slow. Many of us have absolutely NO interest in the new renderer, no matter how good it might be. If you can't minimize Poser during a render and have it use Idle time (like Bryce) there's not too many of us willing to tie up our machines. IMHO I think CL would do very well by upgrading ProPack to use the new libraries (with linked runtimes and subfolders) and possibly the new parameter dials too. Release that and make a killing.

The question is not so much 'Does Poser have a future?'. It's 'Do Poser USERS have a future?'. And the answer? I'd say 'Yes' As long as there are programs around that use the Poser file formats (Poser 3,4 and 5) and programs that will depend on these formats (DAZ|Studio), then I think we're OK. Various companies like CL, DAZ and Renderosity have a big stake in keeping the market going. And it's a fair-sized market, considering that it's a 3d hobby. So, that being the case, it's worth taking the time to learn and improve, no matter what version you use, or will use. The code is flexible enough (or weird enough) for users to continually find new ways of doing things, and we have plenty of bright people working in this community, so I reckon there will be new wrinkles and tricks for quite a while yet. Mind you, I'm not saying we'll all still be doing it in 20 or 30 years. Things are too unpredictable in the software market for that. And if something way better comes along, the users will dump poser like a hot potato. Let's face it. Loyalty only goes so far when it comes to our software needs. A lot of people might deny this, but I think it's true. Anyway, Poser is still one of the few products that is affordable and fascinating, and allows users to get into 3d at this level without selling a kidney. Curious created an incredible user base, and I for one, am very sorry to see the state they're in now. In photography they say you're only as good as your last job. The same is true in software. mac

Personally I think we are about to step into the most exciting time Poser has seen to this point.. competition is good for any industry ... it makes us try harder and travel further , with Daz Studio on the horizon I can see a bright future for us as consumers anyway g. Daz Studio is taking a while but Daz will not be rushed on this and that is a good thing I believe .. at any rate I am optimistic and looking forward to a new challenge with a program that will open new doors and if Curious Labs rises to the occasion a better and ever more innovative Poser 5.. 6? g. As someone already said.. interesting times ahead!

Competition is indeed good, and hopefully it will motivate CL to solve the problems in Poser and/or to work with users to solve compatibility problems.

DAZ will not be rushed, but after making the announcement of the public beta at the end of January, they have been silent. Even though the product page states that the schedule is subject to change [and it has -- original schedule had public beta scheduled at the time of the Mimic 2 release, but the current does not], the press release dated 11/25/2002 states that the projected release date is mid 2003.

I don't know if other people have asked DAZ about the status of Studio, but I have. I even suggested that Steve K. give an update to the communities. Steve wrote back that he would see what he could do, but he could not promise anything.

Well, steve IS in charge of PR, so that perhaps makes him a bit cautious in these matters. Especially given the communities' record of jumping on every tid-bit and adding another 50,000 questions for good measure. I don't blame him. Personally, I'm glad to see them taking their time and not being pressured into anything. 'Measure twice, cut once' as the saying goes. If anyone can challenge CL on their own turf, it's DAZ. And if they're going to do that, they need to get it right. Luckily, DAZ has huge credibility in the Poser community, so people will wait patiently, (especially after having seen the CL debacle). But I'm sure DAZ knows that credibility won't last if DAZ|Studio sucketh. They'll do it, and they'll do it good. That's my prediction for the day. mac

I think DAZ really has a chance to pick up the ball and run with it in the future. I've gotten really good results from Poser 5, but I don't use any of the stock models that come with it (except maybe the cube and flat plane from Props) - they're all DAZ figures and 'Rosity add-ons. I picked up Mimic2 today, and it's really promising, so I have high hopes for DAZ Studio, since they also make most of the core figures I make images with. If Curious Labs had worked with DAZ in the development of P5, things might be different now, but there's a lot of people who prefer to keep using P4. I hope that Poser does keep evolving, but without some of the key names who put a lot of blood and sweat into it (like Larry and Steve), it's just not quite the same. I think we all learned from P5 not to sing praises from software that's not on the shelf yet, but DAZ Studio is on the horizon, and I haven't heard anything about Poser 6. At least we've got something to look forward to! Just my two cents... -Jeff

About seeing the Dork & Victoria on TV and elsewhere, and sales going strong here... Poser FIGURES etc are going strong, not necessarily the program. I am willing to bet that TV animations are done in another program. There are many people that don't own/use poser but buy poser models/props and use them in other programs. I originally had Bryce, then bought Poser so that I could use those figures in Bryce before discovering the then Zygote store. I have no idea what the future will bring though. Darn, I left my Magic 8 Ball at home. :D

IMHO the answer is definitely YES!!! For all of us.

Poaser has a future, yes. One way or another, it will survive. There is far too much interest in the possibilities of this app for it to die altogether. And as has been pointed out in this thread, the file formats are certain to survive and be used. Whatever happens, I am having LOADS of fun with it :o) :] Fish

Does "poser" have a future, sure, the way a "hoover" or a "walkman" does. In the UK, almost everyone calls a vacuum cleaner a "hoover" doesn't matter if hoover don't make them all, doesn't matter if your "walkman" isn't a Sony either, it still plays music... I think that much like Linux, which behaves like UNIX in all but name, Daz Studio will work a lot like Poser, why? Because that's what people are used to. It'll be different enough to avoid "look & feel" litigation, but it will be poser in all but name, only faster, and perhaps, beter. It will work with all of Daz's/Zygote's stuff, probably most of the Free stuff too. But somehow I doubt you'll be able to tell which is which by looking at the output. I can tell P5 images more becuase of Judy, Don, and wiry hair than I can just from the image. I think, "poser" will survive, whether CL will be here to see it is another matter, I'd like to think that somebody would buy poser as a going concern, but given the current ecconomic climate I would put my hopes on anyone doing it in the next 2-3 years. later jb

Here are my thoughts. I started with P2 and I have P5. Does it have issues? Sure it does, but how many programs realeased today don't? It's whether or not CL is willing to work with it and the community to make it better. It's still one of the lowest cost 3D apps on the market. That's my main reason for getting it. It has come a very long way and I think it still has miles to go. Would I like to see it stay around? Yes, I would. I would like to see it continue to grow and evolve. But in doing that, could the price go up on it, which would mean that it's no longer a low cost solution? That would need to be balanced. Sometimes I can get the Firefly render to work well for me and sometimes I can't. That can be very frustrating. As far as DAZ|Studio goes, if them taking more time to do it means that it will peform well on release, I'd rather wait. I'll definitely check out the Beta, just to see what they are doing. As for jumping ship on Poser, that would depend on many variables and it would not be immediate. As for product loyalty, here's my two cents. I had Bryce 3 and went all the way to Bryce 5. They still don't handle the import of Poser figures well and since I was looking for a low cost solution for creating worlds for my Poser figures, I was very frustrated. I had a friend who uses it all the time and he's great with it. But when I saw that Vue d'Esprit could handle the import of Poser figures (transparency maps and all) I decided to check it out. Well, gotta tell you, I've dumped Bryce and I'm not looking back. Vue does what I need it to do for my Poser figures, it's much easier to learn IMHO and I like the way it renders. If DAZ|Studio does nothing else, it should stimulate the market for more competition for low cost 3D solutions. I never use the stock poser figures because they are just not as nice as the DAZ figures and there is more available for the DAZ figures. I think that CL should have worked with DAZ as well in devloping Poser 5. If possible, making Vick1 and Mike1 the stock figures and building from there. I still have a lot to learn about Poser 5 so, it's not going anywhere anytime soon, for me.

It is good to see so many hopeful (if not totally positive) comments about Poser. I daresay that a few months back this would have been an entirely different thread. Since we are all crystal-ball gazing, my personal spirit guide tells me that DAZ will most likely continue it's tradition of very clever marketing, and though we get the core of Studio for free, we will end up paying 4 or 5 times the cost of Poser 5 to get all the add-ons, enhancements and upgrades. I welcome an alternative to Poser but will not likely abandon CL or Poser but find how to make both products work for me. Just as in 3D modeling, I have never owned a single application that could do ALL the things I want to do, so more tools for the toolbox are always welcome. CL's main problems (IMHO) are 1) public relations and 2) marketing. If they do not survive it will be because of these rather than anything to do with the product itself. DAZ, on the other hand is masterful at both. Even though I perceive that the quality of their product has declined, and I find that I am just not as interested in their offerings as I once was, I am quite sure that they will continue to do well. I can only hope the same for Curious Labs.

Ronstuff, I agree that CL's main problems are PR and marketing.... at least, up to a point. Although I think these problems were overshadowed, or maybe multiplied, by the rush to get poser 5 out the door. Perhaps it wasn't even CL's fault. Maybe the financial and corporate pressure was on. Whatever.. I also agree that DAZ's marketing is 'clever', but there's more to it than that. DAZ know that the users lie at the heart of their market, (something CL apparently forgot), and they'll always go the extra mile to keep the user happy. That alone makes them stand out from the crowd. Add to that a strong range of products, a good selection of independent brokers, and the good sense to hire excellent people to do the job, even to the point of employing poser users like Anton and Robert Whisenant, and you have a winning combination. I sincerely doubt we'll end up paying '4 or 5 times the cost of Poser 5 to get all the add-ons, enhancements and upgrades', as you say. For one thing, with a unit/plug-in system, people will only buy what they need and leave the rest. Secondly, DAZ have always priced for the market, and currently, the market is Poser 4/5, which translates to around $200 for the full monty. On top of that, I would be quite happy to spend my money in chunks of $20 - $50 for plug-ins and try them out as I go along. Better than shelling out everything at once and discovering you don't need half the features. I reckon DAZ will give us a product that's in line with most of their other stuff. A good app at a good price with features that make it worth buying, even if you're already happy with poser. Does this sound like 'California Dreamin'? I hope not! mac

As long as DAZ understand that the money we spend on Daz Studio is money we can't spend in their store. Sigh.

I've become (largely) a DAZ convert this year, having received some of their much-touched customer service - but MIMIC 2 is the first DAZ Studio "add-on" to be released (as it was listed, at least once) and the Pro version retails (ignoring discounts, pure "final" RRP) at $199.95. It's a great addition to DAZ Studio or Poser, but it's not "the full monty". There is EVERY chance that the plugins could add up to a substantial cost overall, and that a fair number of people will want all or most of them. This is, after all, what DAZ and the plugin vendors want - to sell product. Even the "lite" or "Standard" version retails at $79.95 - a significant chunk of "the full monty". However, as much as I agree that the chances are good that a full working DAZ Studio could end up costing 4-5 times a full Poser set-up, I suspect that in at least some ways the functionality will be in line with the price difference.

Mac - LOL you always make some good points, so can't argue with you. Since we are all just hypothesizing, though, it might be fun to bookmark this thread and come back in 6 months to see how we fiared. In a related matter, here is a little test that I did back when I found out that Poser 5 used micropolygon technology and NOT SDS as originally thought. This is an amazing little process that brings Poser into a new league, but which nobody seems to be noticing. The question is whether DAZ studio will offer such technology or whether it will just require huge resource-sucking meshes to get detail. Potentially, In poser 5 there is no reason why Posette could not render with as smooth curves as the much higher resolution Vicky3 - even forehead wrinkles and crows feet eye detail could be done with displacement mapping - perhaps even more detail than V3 can generate in Poser 4. So why do we need all those extra polygons? Beats me, but does give me a clue of the technology behind DAZ studio and why they are not eager to support Poser 5. As someone said earlier it is an interesting time... ... and time will tell...

Unless I am misreading the functionality of DAZ|Studio, DAZ is going to provide the functionality of Poser 4 for free.  Advanced functionality, like plugins to other applications, will be for sale.  Below is a list of features [Source: DAZ], and the current schedule:

Items included in the initial stage of the DAZ|Studio Beta Program:

• Support for Windows 98SE/2000/Me/XP and MAC OSX 10.2 and above
• Single select and edit of bones or objects in scene via controls in the Scene pane (i.e. visibility, color, and position)
• Cameras, props, scenes, and figures can be posed and manipulated using controls in the Parameter pane
• Material editing will allow user to alter properties of existing materials
• Editable material properties include: surface color, surface texture, bump map, transparency map, and displacement map
• Open-GL support in 3D views including: real-time texture and transparency maps
• Import of .OBJ and .PZ3 (including all PZ3 subsets) file formats.
• 3Delight renderer by DNASoft included (Renderman compliant)

Items that will be implemented at a later stage of the DAZ|Studio Beta Program:

• 3D view display will be optimized for speed and quality
• Save function enabled
• DAZ|Studio specific file format
• Selection of objects through 3D view
• Additional Open-GL support in 3D views of: anti-aliasing, depth of field, and specularity.
• Animation timeline that allows user to set and edit keyframes, create, and play animations
• Python support
• Advanced asset manager for handling large asset quantity and content directories
• For-sale plugins for .LWO and .MAX import/export

Anticipated Stages of program completion:

• Limited alpha (current stage)
• Initial Public beta release
• 2nd beta release, Lightwave 3D® and 3ds max® Plug-ins available
• DAZ|Studio Basic 1.0 release
• Gradual addition of plug-ins with advanced features

[Schedule subject to change]

Does it have the functionality of the face, hair or cloth rooms in Poser 5, no.  But, if you are a DAZ customer and purchase their products, do you really use the previously mentioned rooms much?  Will they provide similar functionality?  Who knows.  Maybe Dan Farr and Chris Creek do. :)

But there's no camera trackball. Feh. I can't say I was jumping for joy at the camera controls available.

The suport for displacement mapping is a step above Poser 4, even if it doesn't support dynamic cloth, surface smoothing, strand-based hair etc. (though it'd be a real shock to "drop back" from some of the Poser 5 capabilities - like the materials room).

The Poser APP may or may not have a future - the Poser IDEA will definitely have a future. Poser provides a cross-platform, cross-app "integrator" for all kinds of 3rd party stuff AND extensive modification/personalization options. Meaning that you can create original work based on stock content - also known as "outsourcing" all the work you're not interesting in doing yourself, and concentratingn on what you WANT to do. It's the wave of the future, and that future is arriving alreay. The signs are all over the 3D world, they just don't call it "the Poser principle" yet ;o) Pro studios and individual amateurs are using stock models, tex's, motions etc. in any number of projects, from games to movies. Hey, several do-it-all-yourself apps (such as TrueSpace and Cinema4D) are beginning to offer ready-to-use Poser-style content. Why? Because studio and amateur alike want to get their vision or product out as fast as possible - they've got other visions or clients in the pipeline ;o) The same idea is spreading "from the other side" in Machinima (movie-making with games engines instead of 3D apps), check it out (www.machinima.com and www.machinima.org). 3DWorld magazine had a fascinating article in # 39. To quote : "It's at this frontier that Coppola's vision comes true : an individual animator working alone like a painter, a novelist or a poet, makes a work of art." All art discussions aside (please!), expand this to include still images, and you have a perfect description of what the Poser idea makes possible. Oh, the Poser APP (or DAZ Studio) will need lots of added functionality (see any wish list in the Forums), but it's the IDEA that sets it apart - to have a virtual studio on the desktop of anyone who gets bitten by the creative bug. A studio where you can bring in any number of talented co-workers for your projects via a Marketplace for Poser-formatted content. To each his own virtual ILM ;o) That's why I think the idea is here to stay, whatever specific app will express it. Learning how to think and work that way will be a good investment of your time, IMHO.

Very impressive test, ronstuff. I have to say in defence of poser 5 (even if I'm not a P5 user) that it was certainly an ambitious attempt to push the envelope, while staying within the traditional poser price-range. Despite all the complaints, for those who do have it running, there's evidently a lot of advantages. It's not the first time I've heard comments like 'it'd be a real shock to "drop back" from some of the Poser 5 capabilities'. 'DAZ is going to provide the functionality of Poser 4 for free' Well.... not quite. They may provide some of the capabilities, but if you can't save your work, it's not exactly up there with Poser. Not that I'm complaining. I don't expect to get it all free. DAZ want people to beta-test for them, and get them 'psyched up' to buy the program, but they're being quite open about it. They aren't stupid enough to let themselves in for the same criticism as CL did, ie. 'We're all unpaid beta-testers' So it follows that they must have a lot of confidence in it. If it was a turkey, they sure wouldn't be offering it for a free test-drive! 'But there's no camera trackball' Great! After working with 'real' 3d apps that use an arc system instead of Toytown controls, I always dread opening up poser and seeing that awful UI. Take it from me, spit. If DS uses an arc, you'll get used to it in about 10 seconds and never look back. Let's all convene in 6 months and see how we feel. LOL. mac

You will be able to save your work. That's always been something that would be in the free version. The original plan was not at first, but save capability would be added to the free version shortly. Now, according to a past message from DAZ, it will be available in the first version (due to the whining), which is one of the reasons a version hasn't been released yet, although Mimic 2 is out now.

Thanks for the correction, fyrespiryt. Good to know DAZ is listening to us, as usual. mac

It's hard to keep up with all of this stuff, isn't it? I try to keep an eye for the names DanFarr or SKondris in strings I'm not reading, but they're easy to miss.

I suspect that The Sims/SimPose may evolve into a more popular modeling/animation application environment than Poser ever was. Dale LaRoy Splitstone