Can you believe it? It's definitely a 'let the buyer beware' sort of situation.

For your information, I was trying to return the 'Millenium Motions' for the Poser animals by PDBlake. Attached is a sample frame from the dog run animation. It's like he let a 6 year old girl play with Poser, and sold the results. :-P

--Kamilche

... as this is a site related topic, not Poser specific. Kevin.

I think if you take it up with the vendor, you may be quite surprised and find that, that person will do his/her best to help retify the situation. If not, the best way to voice your concerns with the product would be: Go to where you bought the product and give your feedback. This will let the creator know that you were not satisfied with the product and also let "Future" buyers Know, that they may have a problem.(: I also bought something recently that I am totally unhappy with, so I will give that person at least a week to answer my e-mail........then if he/she doesn't........I will voice my opinion of the product, in the feedback area. I don't know if this will work, as I have NEVER had to do this before.......but, if the person who you bought from, doesn't have the consideration to answer you back, then........people here, who buy stuff, need to know that.(: Genny

Having looked at that particular animation, you are most certainly correct and I do apologise for any inconvienience. If you would please email me at the address in the readme file I will reply with the fixed animation attached. Once again sorry for the inconvienience. Any one else who purchased this set and who needs the fixed files please email me too.

Thanks so much for sending kamilche the link to the fix :) I might suggest that you contact ClintH as well, perhaps her can send you a list of everyone who purchased your product and you can in turn send them the link to the Fix :) ladynimue

:) pdblake has a list of buyers. What we will do is replace the product file in the marketplace with the fixed file. Reset all previous buyers downloads. Notify previous buyers that a fix is available for immediate downloading from their Purchase History page. (whew) Clint

Yeah - You Be Da Hero of the day - Again Clint! Thanks SOOOoo much :) ladynimue

Thanks Clint, I have sent it as an attachment in reply to your email.

A dog did a "millennium motion" in my garden last week. If I catch it, it will end up looking like the one above.

Ohh Poooo tafkat - you know we can see through that hard outer crust into your softy heart ;]

FYI on this.... pdblake has corrected the dog run motion file and provide me with a replacement ZIP. The MarketPlace product has been updated with the new file, previus buyers DL's have been reset and pdblake has sent an E-Mail to all previous buyers letting them know they can DL the update from their Purchase History page. Thanks for you patients. Clint

Whew that was a lot of work for a Saturday Thanks pd for acting correcting the file so quickly and making it available to previous buyers :) Clint - Thanks also for taking care of this in such a prompt and thoughtful manner :) ladynimue

Hey - We aim to please.. :) Clint

Well I say for certain that your aim is better than the above Poor Poser Pooch ;]

Still doesn't work for me. There was more wrong with the set than that one frame showed. The horse walk is actually more of a leg flailing in midair sort of thing. The cat walk has the same bent leg problem, as does the wolf. Every one of them is unnatural in several respects - there's just far too much work needed on these animations, before I would consider them commercial quality.

I sent a list of suggestions to PDBlake, but he blew me off. I really don't want this product, and would like a refund... but JeffH has already told me that I'm stuck with it, essentially.

Given their return policy, Renderosity should really do some quality control on items submitted to their store. Even just a GIF file showing the final animation, could have been enough to warn me off. I'm tempted to render up all these animations frames and post them myself to prove my point... but it's late, I'm tired, and bored of this whole mess. It's been an eye opening experience.

--Kamilche

Renderosity cares more about how its vendors feel, than its customers, it appears. When I first contacted them regarding the return, I told them that it was inappropriate for me to contact the vendor and tell him his work sucks - they should just accept the return and let me remain anonymous.

They said no refund - talk to the merchant yourself. So I contacted him and told him I was embarrassed that Renderosity was making me say this, but his product needed work, outlined a few of the problems, and requested my money back. He got all huffy and said if all I could do was insult him, he wasn't going to respond to me.

I posted feedback about the product, which got censored. They deleted my message from the forum, and buried it here in this forum that I have no idea how to get to, there's no link on the main forums page. :-P

Yeah, I got mad. And yeah, I don't care if people know it. I was jerked around by both Renderosity and the vendor, and still don't have my money back, store credit, or a useful product. At a minimum, they should force animation merchants to post an animated GIF of every animation, so we have some idea what we're buying.

By comparison, DAZ was very nice to me the three times I had to return something to them due to quality issues. They didn't force me to do 'down and dirty dealing' with the merchant, and insult them to their face about their work - they allowed me to remain anonymous, and gave me store credit. I never did want to communicate with PDBlake about this... but Renderosity said it was the only way to handle it. Which sucks.

And before you get aghast that I returned 3 ITEMS to DAZ, allow me to elaborate - I've bought literally hundreds of models from them in the past, including custom commissioned work. 3 duds out of hundreds, is not outrageous. :-P

No one forced you to insult me kamilche, you chose to do that yourself, you seem to have it in your nature. As for "blowing you off", you made suggestions and I thanked you for them. I also offered you the fixed files for the third time, and you ignored it. I have fixed the problem with the package, if you still have a gripe with it then download the fixed version. Personally I can do without customers like you. Some people just cannot be pleased and set out to complain from the start.

Hi kamilche,
I am sorry that you still do not feel that your needs were taken care of concerning this purchase. I can understand how frustated you feel.

At the same time, I know that pd and Clint made honest, sincere, and thoughtful steps to correct the problem.

I would request that you IM Clint again, if you would like him to take further action about this. He is a very resonable and fair-minded individual, and if you state your feelings in a likewise manner I am sure you can come to a satisfactory conclusion :)

Also, although I understand you are feeling very frustrated, - please refer to the following Terms Of Service statement when posting to the forums:

Member/User Conduct

Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention, without letting us know about problems we have no way to fix them!

Please also remember, that we are only human and errors will happen from time to time. pdblake is a respected merchant at Renderosity and once this problem was brought to his attention, he did everything he could to correct it, not only for you, but for other members who have purchased this product.

Again, I can understand your frustration and if you will please contact Clint via IM or email. I am sure, if he realizes that you are still unhappy with the product [even after the fix has been installed], that the two of you can work something out to your satisfaction!
{as a side note, today is Sunday and hopefully Clint is taking the day off and spendiing it with his family, however I am sure he will reply to your IM or email on his next scheduled work day}

Sincerely,
ladynimue
moderator

I was polite when I contacted him, but he was embarrassed and self-defensive anyways. That is understandable, and regrettable - I never wanted to bring these quality issues up with him in the first place, as I said... and Renderosity should NOT have told me to do it, because they have no refund policy.

Who's Clint, that people keep telling me to contact? The merchant that handles customer complaints? :-D Another person to pass the buck to, I suppose.

For those of you that believe I'm being indefensibly rude, here's the detailed message I sent to PDBlake, when he told me he'd 'fix the leg' and send me a new file. I do not believe there is an ounce of rudeness in it, yet you guys are about to bring out the tar and feathers, I can tell. It's the email he blew off, and said 'just give me your email address' to.

Subject: Posing Tips

Archive of message sent to pdblake: You'd have to do a lot of work to make them usable for my game. Just fixing the leg there isn't enough. I do have some suggestions, if you're interested. Maybe these will help in your future animations.

Keep in mind, that all 4 hooves of the horse need to touch ground and be horizontal at SOME point. And they all need to touch the same plane - you can't have the front hooves never touching like that. Nice movement on the tail, body, and neck though.

The cat has the same problem as the dog, leg-wise. On the cat run, the cat's back needs to unhump at least some of the time. And the head should be farther up.

The cat walk has the paw be horizontal for quite some time after it's lifted from the floor. This makes it look like it's walking downhill, for the back legs only. You need to start unbending the paw as soon as you lift it.

Turn on ground shadows as you animate, so you can see the 'target' for the feet. When they're supposed to hit ground, be ON it - not above it or below it.

You need to unbend the wolf's back some, he looks more like a dog than a wolf. Lower his head. He's more sinister than a dog. Plus the same floating paws problem. Look at where his paws are when he runs. Totally wild. Plus there's the same broken paw that is in the other animations.

On the frog, you have his legs all stretched out behind him, while he's laying on the ground at the end. They are all stretched out in mid-stream, not at the end like that.

Like I said - many fixes are necessary. To give you inspiration, here's some animations I commissioned from Chris Derochie:

http://www.kamilche.com/images/new/animals/lope.gif
http://www.kamilche.com/images/new/signaturepics/rat.gif
http://www.kamilche.com/images/new/animals/bigfoot.gif
http://www.kamilche.com/images/new/animals/horse.gif

Any new animations I use for my game, have to be close to that in quality. (Sent 6/27 15:58)

I apologize for not adding that ClintH is: The Marketplace Manager, and is in charge of Merchant Relations. The reason I suggested you get in touch with Clint, is that he is the person who could best help to answer any of your Marketplace questions as well as to help you resolve any Marketplace problems :) He can either be contacted by IM [just click his Nick on one of his above postings to this thread] or email him at: ClintH@Renderosity.com Again, please note that you may not receive an answer until the next time that he is scheduled to be working. However, I know that he contact you as soon as possible. Sincerely, ladynimue

That is the last message you sent me after you'd calmed down a bit, please post the original message you sent me, I won't as I'd not want to embarass you.

Hi pd, I can understand your frustation as well. Thank you for being courteous as to not post a private email or IM. That was very thoughtful as well as considerate. I am confident that Clint can work with all parties involved to come to a respectful and agreed upon solution to this matter. Which is what everyone wants if I am not mistaken! Thanks again, to both parties for keeping this matter to a thoughtful discussion! ladynimue

That's alright ladynimue , I am getting a bit fed up of this now, I think I'll ignore this thread now. Both you and Clint know how to contact me if you need to.

Yeah, you're right, it was rude of me to say it appeared you had a 6 year old girl do the work and then sold it. I was incensed at their no refund policy, and having to contact you personally, when I wrote it. I apologize for saying that in public - I should have let the dog picture speak for itself.

This really bums me out, because there's not enough animators out there. I don't want to discourage authors by having to give negative feedback, but I did because Renderosity told me to, essentially.

I feel the fault in this whole mess, lies with Renderosity. They exercise no quality control over their store offerings, don't show a complete preview of what you're buying at least when it comes to animations, and refuse to give refunds. Even 'big names' have the occasional dud - you'd be surprised whose products I had to return to DAZ due to quality issues. But they never had their self respect harmed because of it, because DAZ never forced me to take up the issue with the vendor directly, like Renderosity does.

Keep animating, PDBlake. We need more animations available to buy, there's too few as it is. But please take my posing suggestions to heart, and start posting animated GIFs of your offerings so we can get a clear idea of what we're buying, OK?

--Kamilche

kamilche, It concerns me that you feel the need to state false information about Renderosity.

We do have quality control. All products are tested before being released.
We have a very extensive testing procedure.
Every once in a while some products with problems or bugs do slip past the testing team, this is rare.
If this happens - We work with the merchant, fix the problem and provide the updated product file to all previous buyers.
We are working towards this in regards to your current issue.

We dont refuse to give refunds.
I provided you with the link to our refund policy via E-Mail yesterday.

Renderosity has a differant brokering model than DAZ.
Product support is provided directly from the merchants at Renderosity. I will assist in communications between the merchant and buyer if/when needed.

I feel confident that pdblake will provide an updated product file that corrects the problems that you have located.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Clint

What is the problem actually? If I buy something and I'm not comfortable with that product - I blame the maker and not the guy who sold it. Sure there's quality control, but the only one who can fix it is the one who created it. If ever anybody is unhappy with one of my products, I'd love that they contact me directly. How else should I know that there's a problem? No need to cry for Clint and the team, they have enough business to do and are always helpful and give good support. But there's need to contact the merchant directly instead, to let him know and give him the chance to fix it. Greets, Jimi

I have had a few issues myself and never once did the merchant who created it refuse to help me and not fix the problem. These merchants here are a fantastic group of people. And Clint, good gawd. YOu couldn't ask for a better person to go to. Him and his team give the best support and they are sooo patient. Even when someone like me does something stupid like purchase something twice. Given a chance you will excellent help all the way arouind.

IMHO buyer beware! Also IMHO, if I were a vendor and if the purchaser is not happy with my product, and if I couldn't bring him satisfaction, I'd simply return his money and send him on his way. Who needs bad press on a message board viewable to thousands because of my temper?

kayjay97, Thans for the kind comments. We came to a nice end with the customer on this one. Clint