I'm seeing a lot of strong opinions regarding how the PC works. I was a little surprised that some threads have gone down to "the world doesn't owe you anything" direction. In my case, I never said the world owed me anything. However, if I pay for something, then I expect something in return. That's one of the issues of the Platinum Club. If I don't find something to purchase in any given month, then I'm out eight bucks. Even though I can rationalize that I'm ahead of the game overall with everything else I purchased, I still tend to remember paying eight bucks for nothing that month rather than the full experience. That's because of how a club is priced. Members get charged every month whether or not they make a purchase. If I only purchase one new item a month, I'm paying $10 for that item ($2 for PC price and $8 for the membership). For most people, that's still a bargain, but it starts become an expense that I have to justify. That's the problem with a club vs. a sale. A club charges a member every month and people want something for their money. Whether or not that's worthwhile is a call by each member's financial standing. For some, it's not a big deal. For others, that monthly expense, while not large, still means eight dollars less to spend on something else that might be more important. A sale is a time limited event and draws a certain amount of purchases because things may not be that inexpensive again. When the sale is over, the customer does not continue paying. I mostly joined for the sale. To me, it's not an emotional issue. It's a question of what's practical. If I buy one new PC item every few months, it's not worth the monthly membership and I'm better off leaving and rejoining when there's enough new stock to make it worth the $30 start-up fee. That's not a knock on the amount of effort that goes into 3D products. It's solely an issue of what I can afford. I'll have to wait and see whether the club is right for me to remain a member. If I drop out of the club, I won't be using the 30 day money-back guarantee because I am very happy with what I got during the sale. With the sale over, I've got to see whether continuing to pay the monthly membership is worthwhile for my finances. Part of the levels of disagreement that I see in this forum has to do with the differences in the members' levels of experiences and buying habits. There are people spending hundreds of dollars every month purchasing models. For them, the PC is an incredible bargain because they'll be making great savings on items that they regularly purchase and will be regularly using the $5 voucher in the Premier store. When they see complaints about the club, they're absolutely incredulous because they're used to spending so much on models and cannot fathom why somebody else would want more. I'm on the other side of the fence where it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on models when I'm not going to be making money from any art I produce using them. I've been gratefully making do with the models provided by the Poser community. Nobody has to provide those models for free, but it's great that they do. I wound up spending far, far more than I ever expected during the PC/DAZ sale (up front, I didn't expect to spend much more than $50-$100 beyond the membership, but wound up spending over $300). My spending habits will be considerably smaller for the rest of the year. It would be nice if the big spenders could be a little more tolerant for those of us who don't have their financial resources. I'd love to own every DAZ model, but that's not going to happen, so I'll have to content myself with what is affordable or free. The PC/DAZ sale was an offer I couldn't pass up, but maintaining the monthly fee will be an issue of whether there's enough new items I want to make it worth paying with my financial restrictions.

I certainly understand your point of view. I don't care for the monthly payment option either. It's just not worth it to me. For the renewal price (or even the startup price, if I didn't have it already), it would be worth it, because then I feel I have paid for a service that I use. I may not use it every day, or even every month, but I know I will get my money's worth. If not for the PC, I could never have afforded the extensive collection that I have. What I resent, is the attitude that some people have, and the way they present their complaints. The childish cries of This is a ripoff! (overgeneralized example) are much different from the reasonable, thought out post that you have just made. Whe DAZ first came out with the PC, I thought long and hard about whether or not I should join. I missed the introductory offer, and $99 was a bit rich for me, even with all the savings. I feel lucky that they had the holiday sale and I was able to get the PC at a discount, otherwise, I would probabley not have joined until much later. Justifying the expense is certainly a good topic for discussion. Sour grapes because you(universal you, not you personally) don't like the method of access to, or can't afford that shiny new toy that everyone is raving about is just annoying.

My 2 cents...I'm doing the monthly thing..have already got well over my $$$'s worth...that said..I've already bought everything there is to buy there(that I'm interested in)...My only SUGGESTION is that they do some sort of rotation thing...ie..move stuff out of the Premier/Special Interest Store into the PC...maybe add/remove a couple of items every week...That way I won't have to be checking all the time ;) LOL

GEEEE! You echo my reasoning! That is why I wanted to pay the $100 up front. I perused the Platinum Club offerings and I really didn't want everything. There are a few items I could use and wanted. The sale and incentives got me going at the last minute and I was actually hedging for FUTURE content. PERHAPS I may have gotten a break if sales@Daz would have let me slide by the date/time on my e-mail, but thats life. I actually spend more here at Rendo. (Still waiting on that Cough Pretty Cough REFUND though folks!) dlk30341: How about rotating some Club stuff out to Premeir/Special as well. I'll understand that as a club member you'll get a break on the price.

Hmmm...but if I already have the stuff at 1.99 Why pay for it with a discount....that doesn't make much sense. OTOH...for those people who don't have PC mem's. I agree with you....Those that don't have aPC mem should be given the opportunity to purchase the "exclusive" items. That seems fair. That's what I meant if the first place...just rotate everything....that's sounds simpler, than my inane babbling...that's really what I meant. I've been at this damn puter too long today...LMAO

Well, I don't agree about the rotation. DAZ has to make the club a great deal for its members. If there's stuff in there that you can ONLY get in there, well, then that's a great incentive (if you want it, of course).

rreynolds, Very good post. Well-thought out and elegantly put. So much different from some of the inane gibberings we've had to put up with in the past. Just to throw out a general line, think about this. Look at the PC from DAZ's POV for a second. What are they trying to do? Give away as much as they can for $1.99? Nope - try again. Get a bunch of loyal customers who fork out $80 (or whatever it costs) a year? Right! (You win a coconut). So how do they intend to make sure you keep on paying them a yearly amount of cash to be a member? Well, I have no idea, but I would hazard a guess. I'd imagine they're going to keep throwing in as much new stuff as they can, as often as they can, and make it worth your while to keep renewing. That's the only sensible option for them. Otherwise, next year, the PC won't have any renewals. One thing to bear in mind is that this is a very slow time of year. It's the time when staff want to be lying on the beach on vacation, and the retail slump is a typical feature of august. I'd hang on in for a while to see what comes up in september/october. Oh, and one more thought. I'd bet my wagon and pony that PC members might have some financial advantage when it comes to buying plug-ins for DAZ|Studio too. mac

Yeah, but IF I keep dropping $29.95, $17.95 (or whatever)I may want to consider it. You can have the club price of $1.99. If I'm not in the club AND I want it I'll pay the standard/premium/ price. It was that way from the beginning. I cannnot see dropping ~$118.00 (this includes the monthly nibbling) for a few items in the year (or POSSIBLE items). The $100 would have been fine for me to drop in when I need to get what I want and DAZ has the $$$ outright.

When I joined the PC for the sale price for $49.95, it was worth it to get all the items that they were offering, which was quite a bit of expensive items that were suddenly $1.99 (which kinda burned me on the eagle that I hadn't even used and it was $1.99 after I paid $50 for it, but oh well). Still, I got more than my money's worth in savings.

However, nowadays, if you don't have or use V3 and I'm sure M3, the PC winds up being harder to justify the monthly cost. It's not a ripoff for those that can use the products, but for those that can't, the pickings are slim, and so it's harder to find products to buy. In fact, I will be taking a hard look at renewing my subscription due to this. I like RDNA's $2.50 deals better as there is no club to join and pay for and they are lot more generic items for the most part that everyone can use (rather than just the V3/M3 users (though they do some of that too)).

ShadowWind

By the way, I do have V3 with the morphs, but I am actually sorry I bought it, because I find V2 with Roxanne Morphs from Capsces to be more versatile, just as I'm sure M2 with Boris will be in relation to M3. Plus I have a lot of textures to last me for quite a while for V2 and M2. Besides I'm trying to get more and more into painting the clothes since I can never get them to fit right in strange poses that I need. This is just my opinion, and not a slant against V3 and the upcoming M3.

Generic items hmm... I'll see if I can ake some of those. Actually what's a generic item? Its odd because when I ask "what's missing" people say vastly different things.

Not sure what they mean about a generic item (cause I am too busy and lazy to read it) but from that term I would think things like the drapery that came out a few weeks ago, a random assortment of kitchen tools might be generic ... basically anything that isn't V3 or M3 specific .. of course then people might complain it should be in the free daz section ..

Yeah, basically what Ghost said, not specific to M3 or V3, though I'd go one step further and add items that have a general appeal for those artists that don't only focus on pinups (and that is nothing against pinups at all). Things in a Sears catalog, props sets, creatures. Treasures of Egypt was a good example of a prop set that while I guess could be used for pinups, had other uses as well. Also, when the PC first started, they had lots of great critters like the dragons, eagles, etc. Basically things that can be used in a standalone way regardless of genre (or at least aimed toward a generic use in a particular genre).

In your recent sale, all I bought for the most part was those kinda generic items (the morphing skull, the food pack, the diner, to name a few) because in terms of playability I can get a lot out of them.

Well, I look at it like this: I joined the first year (for a good price) and I definitely got my money's worth. The second year is coming up and I would have joined anyway, but now, it's even better. I'll get a bunch of "toys" (that I suspect I have quite a few of already but no matter) and a voucher each month. Since I usually buy a DAZ original each month, it's not going to go to waste. To put it another way, if I purchased nothing else till my membership was up, it was worth it. And for my upcoming membership, I suspect the same could be said. If you just joined the PC recently, RR, (and I am assuming you did since the monthly payment option was something recent), then the "bundle" you received should equal (in value) what you will spend for a year on membership alone. Of course, I realize you may have gotten a lot of stuff in the bundle you didn't want, but if you are a person who knows you are discriminating and selective, then perhaps joining a membership like this just isn't for you. If you made a mistake in judgement, you shouldn't blame DAZ for not offering enough. You just shouldn't have joined. I realize I'm winding my way to the "world doesn't owe you free stuff" (especially after you had a thoughtful post) but, in a way, you don't expect them to give you the shirt off their back, do you? It's a competitive world out there and many places make offers that are a combination of trying to make a living and making prices appeal to as many people as possible. Take a look at each of them and chose where to spend your money.

Good grief .. you know I think I have about had the biscuit.. trying to put things out as fast as I can is getting a bit old in amongst all these complaints. I am ready to cash in my chips and maybe take some time to sit back and enjoy my self this summer .. enough already. Just a little reminder? These are real folks that work in the PClub.. we have real feelings and are just trying to do a job and do it to the very best of our ability .. it seems to me that no matter how much time we spend, how much effort and detail go into a project it is simply never enough for some folks.. think you are getting ripped off with the PClub? all I can say is think again. Laurie

BTW ,, the above post was aimed at no one in particular, and to the folks that have been supportive and take the time to post it I thank you.. I guess I need a break, usually I can just ignore the complaints unless it is aimed at one of my projects , (in which case I try to fix it .)and enjoy the art work around here ;-)

ShadowWind: " I like RDNA's $2.50 deals better as there is no club to join and pay for and they are lot more generic items for the most part that everyone can use (rather than just the V3/M3 users (though they do some of that too))." ShadowWind, there is also no club to join for PoserPros' ProClub. Currently almost 150 products, all at $2.49. All fully tested for quality just like every other store item.

That's all true. And I won't argue the point. But, let's not forget the additional savings over DAZ original products one gets with the PC membership. And though I buy at the places you mentioned, rcook, there are no additional savings on other items in their stores.

I fully agree with you on the additional savings Chuck. However, there's also the pressure on the consumer to need to save that money, because of the monthly membership. ;) With no membership fee, if you don't see anything you like, then you don't have to buy. No pressure to "save" money by spending money. :D

And, in the spirit of debating the good and bad, I will agree with you. I'm not THAT obtuse...grin.

Money is not always constant, which makes the psychology of what RR refers to a very valid point. Money may have been easier to come up with a single month, and harder other months (caused by car payments, property taxes, etc, etc, etc). Those that have or can earn enough from their art to not worry about this roller coaster have trouble seeing that sometimes. A monthly fee also causes one to analyze the worthiness which usually focuses like he said on the now and not the before. I know I prefer to join once (when I know the money is there) and then let it ride for 6-12 months without worrying about it again, rather than having to consider and justify every month. He also brings up a good point that Daz will have a harder time locking those on the fringe in, which is why I brought up the diversity issue. When you don't have V3 and you have nothing really to buy, while it may be of value over the long run, the mind doesn't really see it that way, because maybe it's tough to warrant that particular month. I don't know if there is a solution persay, I know it wasn't Daz's fault really in forcing the monthly issue, against popular demand, and I agree that one has to look at the value and the long run when they join a club like Daz, versus one of the pay once subscription services. Also, the addition of the fact that you are paying to pay less (but pay nonetheless) is something to consider. I guess the best advice is to find the most cost effective method for your situation and go for that, but I don't think it was ever RR's intent to expect the shirt off their back. It's all logistics, rather than intent.

Russell, thanks for the heads up. I didn't mention PoserPros because honestly I thought it was a subscription service (the word Club is misleading in your case). About every site that has the word Club in it, is a subscription service of some kind (and some pretty cool ones too). So I really thought that it was like Daz's deal. Will pay more attention next time I get over PP's way...

I like the Platinum Club and really appreciate all the work that goes into the hundreds of morphs that the clothes have .. not to mention the work for the items in general.

You can still do the one lump sum Annual payment option via PayPal if you don't want to stress monthly. I like Pay Pal. :) If you have little cash on hand you can now do the monthly payment plan via credit card. This new monthly plan opened the door to some people that didn't want to do a large lump sum at one time- the same people that had been asking for a less expensive way to at least get their foot in the Platinum Club door. And if you do the monthly plan you get the monthly $5 vouchers towards Daz originals... which would help me get a few things I've been wanting and wished were just a little cheaper... You get the Platinum Club items- at least 1 new thing a week that is top quality. It is NOT all V3. There have been props and backgrounds and poses and textures and hair that can always be made to fit different models... And of course the great backlog of stuff you can get, plus for the new folks or rejoining folks, the large bundle of freebies. Then there's the 30% off of all Daz Original items. That 30% is on top of whatever sale is already going on! I got V3 and a bunch of stuff for her for just $64.49. All of the below- Victoria 3.0 Base Upgrade V3 Bikini V3 Fashion Model Pose Collection Victoria 3.0 Head Morph Pak Victoria 3.0 Body Morph Pak Victoria 3.0 Universal Texture Maps (High Res) Fashion Model Face Maps for V3 BombshellV3: Long Conforming Hair for that low price! I mean really think about all of the work, time, and effort that went into all of those things. Now there's the really cool new Platinum Club Gallery. Every month 3 people 'win' a free poster of their artwork. I think that's quite snazzy. Plus there's more Platinum Club stuff coming up, like a forum. Who knows what other treats are in the works? In this instance, again I say we should actually wait and see. In the interim, if the money really is an issue, then just don't do it. ;) I have to honestly say -again!- that if it weren't for the Platinum Club prices, discounts and quality items, I would have a very small runtime indeed. Now, I'm also very fond of the RDNA Real Deals and the PoserPros Club, don't get me wrong. I love to save a buck and still get quality items.

Yeah, what Caly said. :)

Just for the record, I'm not slighting the Platinum Club at all and I know they do a lot of good work over there and for those in the Poser community, have been a godsend. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from joining. As I said, the savings alone if you are going to buy those things is very significant. My only concern (which is strictly my own concern) which MallenLane picked up on was a bit more diversity and balance in the new products since I have most of the ones that I could use in the PC or discounted from the PC. I certainly was not trying to slight their hard work if anyone took it that way. I've bought more stuff at Daz than I care to admit, but let's just say the sale really got me hooked bigtime. Having been in tough times though, I can certainly sympathize with the views that started this thread though.

ShadowWind
Daz-Aholic. It's been 3 days since my last purchase (cause I spent all my budget)

Anyone know what the products ARE that we get when joining/rejoining? My membership isn't due for renewal for a while, and I was just wondering if I could avoid buying what I'll probably get when I rejoin...

I've been a member of the Platinum Club since it started, (last november) my biggest disappointment has been the Platinum Club membership fee change. When I signed up I had understood that the RENEWAL fee would be $69.00, (not $99.00, not $29.00 plus $8.00 a month= about $117.00), which is $30.00 to $48.00 more. Please don't bring that $5.00 coupon thing up, too limited as to products, no carryover, (you can't accumiate 3 or 4 and get a higher priced item) so it forces you to spend additional money to use it (the products you can use it on without spending money are not allowed). So you have to spend money every month if you want to use it. I have no problem with the quality of DAZ products. I have no problem with Customer Service. The staff are fantastic and helpful. The Platinum Club was a great deal. The only thing that annoyed me is the price increase after only a few months. I was told the new pricing was to make it easier for people to pay the membership fee by spreading out the payments. Fine, then charge more for people who take the extended payment plan, (that's what most business's do). On that basis I understand the $117.00, (addition cost for handling additional paperwork every month). Why should someone who is paying the membership in full get a $30.00 increase in renewal membership fees?

The News letter said that we would only get a $30.00 voucher when we renew. Not the big D/L that the new members recieved. Now with Daz this may change again, they do look after their customers. I have no complaints with them and the PC was well worth it for me.

The big DL also comes in when you renew .. Steve clarified that at some point later

Shadow Wind. I can sympathise with your situation re generic products, but just take a second to think. I don't know if you were around when Vicki 3 came out, but you may remember the uproar at the time. Why? Because she was a brand-new figure that everyone bought and there were no clothes or textures for her. That's one reason the PC is heavily weighted towards v3 products. Because the users DEMANDED it. And in a loud voice too. So, this time, before M3 was released, DAZ asked the brokers to begin work on mike products in order to avoid the same scenario again. Now to me, that makes sense. They are trying to keep the customers happy by releasing a new figure, plus a bunch of clothes and texs for it, all at the same time. But the problem is, modellers only have one pair of hands and one life. I'm 100% with laurie. It's disheartening to work your ass off doing one thing (because the members want it), to then be told it's crap and they want something else. (I know you're not saying this - I just mean in general). I broker through DAZ, and I don't make anything for vicki or mike. But my current project has taken 9 months so far. And I can tell you, it's VERY generic, in the sense that you'll be able to use it a million times. But I don't work for the PC, so it won't be a buck-99, I'm afraid. As I said, I understand your frustration, but DAZ really are trying to keep the majority happy. If mike came out with no clothes, there would be another public hanging session. mac

I don't see why the Platinum Club seems to provoke so much controversy and harsh comments from some people. We are people who spend money. We have a right to choose where and how to spend our money, and to reflect opinions on what we see to be a good or bad deal for our hard-earned money. If a company wants our money, they would do well to listen to their customers. Customers like good deals, and love it even better if they get something free sometimes. I don't see the advantage of the Platinum Club. Under the currently monthly terms, I'd need to pay around $7 a month just for the privilege of spending more money. If I don't buy something, I still pay the monthly fee. I want something for every dollar I spend. No one will convince me that's the wrong attitude. It's my money, not yours! DAZ's recent free offerings are actually items that have sat in their inventory for years, and they are items that I don't find useful or interesting. So much for the great $50 giveaway. Again, these are my feelings, and they are apparently shared by others. Most of us would agree that DAZ3D is an excellent company with excellent products. We just disagree on the value of the Platinum Club.

Well, obviously, the majority of the people see the PC as a good bargain. In fact, such a good bargain that several other major "Poser players/sites" had to do something similar or lose customers. Back up a thread and see what Mehndi, Syyd, and Phil (just to name a few that come to mind) did just to stay competitive and how the pricing structures have hurt businesses. So, the DAZ PC was a big change in the Poser community and its ripples reached pretty far. It was seen as a good deal. And, in my opinion, still is. I guess, to summarize a bit: It's fine if people complain and discuss what is a good deal and what is not (and where it falls short and where it has benefits). But to speak frankly, it seems to me that some people won't be happy till everything is free. There are a lot of retail stores whose prices I don't like. I don't stand in front of their store complaining. I don't write to the CEO complaining. I just don't go there.

I think a lot of the grievances at the club come from "marketing" or "spin" involved. Caly has provided an ideal example of this above (currently post 31). Take just the first payment option for a new member. I imagine that people will quite quickly look and see that $29.95 plus 11 installments of $7.95 is considerably more than the $57.40 figure given. It's ACTUALLY $117.40 total that a new person will pay for membership under that line (assuming they pay all 11 extra installments). True, there are the $5.00 vouchers - but these cannot be deducted from the total in the way that the spin doctors have done, because they are not worth $5.00. They are worth $5.00 under certain restrictive conditions. Which IIRC are: Time limited (no combining several vouchers together), no Platinum Club purchases (damning since this only relates to PC membership), and time limited such that if nothing the customer wants (AND can afford) is released in that month then the $5.00 expires. Personally I've found the club to be tremendous value, and I have no intention of not continuing with it when MY membership runs out - but I find it very hard to explain why I think it's good value against a backdrop of "marketing" (or spin-doctoring, if you prefer) which makes the club LOOK shady/dodgy. It's POSSIBLE that someone could join, and not want to buy anything past their first months worth due to what DAZ release (who can tell? Forecasting is always dangerous ground). Bearing this in mind, and that the $7.95's have to be kept up "in hope" of something members want, I can understand all manner of objections... and I can imagine oh, all sorts of ways that people could end up not getting the best possible deal (by quitting shortly before a to-die-for release, or... well, several ways). All I can really summarise to is that I suspect it's best to add up the TRUE cost of a year's membership (which varies depending on whether you are new or not) and imagine it's a one-off charge that you're paying in instalments. Buying club membership on HP, as it were. This would appear to offer better value than actually paying the one-off annual charge in many cases as I suspect that within a year there's (hopefully!) be at least a few products released that the (HUGELY limited!) $5.00 vouchers would be good for. My 2 pence :) Cheers, Cliff Bowman

Laurie S: I hope you don't feel we are knocking you or your hard work for Daz and the Club. Please continue.

I just took a look at my wish list here at Rendo and at DAZ.

I have 118 items/public and private wishlist (and that recently pared down) that will cost me $1551.95 ($13.15 average price).

I have 10 (yep, only 10) wishlist items at Daz at a total cost of $230.52 ($23.05 average price). I think as I whittle my lists down (by purchases) I'm being very supportive.

In the Platinum Club there are only an additional 24 items (with approximately 5 being exclusive to the club).

Of the 10 items of my DAZ wishlist, 7 are brokered items from 5 different folks.

Of the 118 items here at Redno, 72+ different vendors (I counted only the first name if there were collaborative efforts) for the 118 items.

I did want to join the PC, but perhaps I should take care of my list here.

{{{{But, let's not forget the additional savings over DAZ original products one gets with the PC membership. - Check Evans}}}} Hi Chuck :) Though it is true you don't get an additional generic discount and a voucher on other items in our store with our club business model, you are also not paying for that discount either :) (A discount you might not even be able to use all the time.) Remember, that discount and voucher ONLY apply to Daz original creations. It is built on the business model of having an in house line of products. What we decided to do was to get to the heart of the matter. What do people REALLY want with the club models? Our research showed us they want an affordable source of high quality products at affordable prices, that they want lots of original models, that they do not necessarily want to have to buy a more expensive item to use everything released in this area, etc. So that is the need we set out to fill :) If we had chosen to go with a membership fee business model, not only would we cut off those who cannot afford this fee, but then it would compell our ProClub developers to produce till they drop of fatigue... a syndrome that can affect one's joy in one's artistry. We like our merchants to feel joy. It is true that then we could have given a broad discount on things perhaps, but it would have had to be a "paid for" discount. Regular sales already take place in the PoserPros store where individual merchants place their own stores on sale. And our Holiday sales and Buy 1 Get 1 Free events are becoming "famous" in and of themselves, and so during those times one can save really big on PoserPros items, all without having to pay to do so :) Our forums and gallery and contests have always been free, so we see no reason to change that now by charging for them as some sort of a membership benefit either :) In the end, we chose to keep it simple by offering a wide array (we currently have 140 ProClub items) of goods at an affordable price, with a large percentage of these goods being stand alone products that require no additional purchase to use, and lots of them also being "generic" items :)

{{{(the word Club is misleading in your case). About every site that has the word Club in it, is a subscription service of some kind - ShadowWind}}}}

Hi ShadowWind :)

You are totally right, most times in this business Club seems to indicate that the person doing the buying pays :) Our model is a little different, as I said in my above post, so I thought I would explain why we went with the word Club.

Our "Club" is the developers themselves :) They are a club of likeminded developers who have met our criteria for admission to develop for this area of our store. It is not open to everyone, due to the fact we require some pretty hefty and formidable quality guidelines be followed, as well as willingness to work together in a team environment under supervision and direction :) So... when considering a nice title to give them a feather in their hat so to speak, we decided the word club best described the group :)

Philywebrider if you take the Annual Membership version of the Platinum Club the Renewal IS only 69.95. They did not raise the price on you. Remember you have the 30% off of Daz Originals, and the Club counts as one, AND you get a $30 voucher when you renew. Please guys, before making assumptions and jumping to conclusions that people are trying to cheat you, go visit the site and read it carefully. who3d the Platinum Club items are only 1.99. It is easy to understand why they wouldn't want you to use your monthly vouchers in there. And yes, renewing members get a different batch of free downloads. They haven't told us what yet, but it's suppossed to take into account the fact that we've been there for a year already. As for the vouchers/special 30% off only good on Daz Originals... Think of the incredible Daz originals- at least one excellent model and you've made up practically your whole membership fee. Again I say just look at what all I saved on V3 and all of her stuff. Guess how much I'll be saving on M3 and stuff for him? Or Daz Studio modules when it comes out? I like to think ahead. If you don't like the monthly set-up, pay annually, or don't pay at all. :) Mehndi, I practically live over at Poserpros. I think the ProClub is a great thing, the buy 1 get one free Sales are just wonderful. At the same tume, you do not have regular gallery contests with prizes like the Platinum Club at Daz now does. AND Daz still has galleries and Contests that are open to everyone- they are NOT charging you to be in their Galleries and contests- that is not a fair statement. It IS however, only fair, that Platinum Club Members who spend more to be Members, get more from Daz. What they are doing for the members is not Subtracting from what they do to non-members- Rather, they are adding to their services.

I guess the reason I made my post is because I wanted to explain why I may drop out of the Platinum Club. As expected, there's responses with different levels of model buying experiences. There are the people that have been buying models all along and the club is an amazing bargain for them. Then there are people on the other side of the spectrum, like me, that haven't purchased many models, that jumped on the last sale because it was too good to pass up. I feel guilty about thinking about dropping the club because I have bought a lot of great stuff from it. I've installed everything I bought, but haven't had a chance to load everything up in Poser to play with them. I probably bought 70-80% of the PC items that were priced at 99 cents and wound up picking up a few items at $1.99, and over a half dozen of the Premier items on sale. I'll be getting more of the $1.99 items, including some more of Laurie's incredible textures. I limited the amount of nonsale items initially because of the volume of time it took to download close to a gigabyte's worth of items via phone hookup. There was no rush to get stuff that wasn't on sale because I was buying stuff up the 13th. I don't know yet how long I'll stay a member. The sale was too good to pass up and I spent more in a couple weeks than the average DAZ customer does in a year (based on their $250 average listed in the ad) when I hadn't spent a fifth of that in the previous two years totalled. DAZ's promotion liberated a lot of my money and I'm thrilled with what I got. It's largely the sale that got me to join when I did. Otherwise, I probably would have continued procrastinating about joining the PC because there wasn't anything in it that I immediately needed to get my hands on. However, once I joined, I went in to a feeding frenzy and gobbled up as much of the content as I could. After all the initial purchases, there's not a huge volume of models and textures that I still want to buy from the club. After I pick up the remaining items that I held off immediately purchasing, staying as a member is a question of whether what's new every month justifies the monthly membership expense. Since I wasn't spending $10/month on models before joining the PC, I'm not sure whether I'll want to be spending that much in the future. I'll guiltily admit that I joined mostly for the sale. I'm not trying to crack the whip on PC content providers to serve their wares at my feet. This is strictly a question of what I can afford--and I went overboard on the sale. Whether or not the Platinum Club is right for me, and my financial situation, is hard to say in the long run. Did DAZ giving away too much up front?--I don't know. I haven't taken a lot of time to figure out what exactly drove me to join. It was a mix of the sale, the dropping of the club price ($100 up front was a bit too high), the desire to get some of the PC products, and the freebies. It was the combo that got me to join and I suppose that the lower club entry, combined with the sale, were the main reasons to join. There was some nice stuff in the freebie pack, but, with anything like that, there's always items that aren't immediately needed. In any kind of club arrangement, staying a member is a question of how much new is offered per month to make it worth remaining a member. Having a large starting set of items in a club is an enticement for somebody to join, but not necessarily for somebody to stay. I don't what kind of mix is necessary to make the club profitable. I understand that the club fee defrays some of the costs for offering models and textures as cheaply as they are. Whether the club remains an attractive enough offering for me to stay is hard to say. Maybe the club isn't meant for me because I haven't purchased many models before now. If I were professionally using Poser, it would be a different story, but I've got to spend a lot of time explaining why I just spent hundreds of dollars for what is only a hobby. I sure won't be spending that much for the rest of the year. Everybody's mileage is different than my own, so I can only say that these are my thoughts. What I'm stating isn't a complaint, just an explanation so that DAZ can understand why a person might not remain a PC member. While I don't have the time or energy to explain to every business why I stop buying from them, DAZ has been nice enough to offer quality free models every week. I thought I owed them the time to explain how I felt about the club.

rreynolds, I wouldn't feel guilty about it, if I were you. Everyone uses poser in a different way. Everyone has a different budget. And everyone buys what they need or what they can. So, if it's not for you, opt out. You cetainly won't be the only one who joined just for the sale. But I think your experience does show something about clubs in general and the DAZ policy in particular. Any 'club', whether it's an online store, supermarket offering 2 for 1, or regular store having a promo sale, is basically trying to do the same thing - get customers into their store. Studies show that once you're in the door, you'll ALWAYS spend more than you intended to. And in your case, it obviously worked. Not that this is a problem. You got a great deal. DAZ got a loyal customer, (in the sense that you're clearly well-disposed towards them), and they made some money out of it. Out of 100 such customers, I imagine at least 50 will renew their PC, and DAZ is building up a huge client base from the whole thing. That's what it's all about. And I'll add one long-range prediction. I bet DAZ are smart enough to come up with something in the future that's SO irresistible, you'll join up again. LOL. mac

Caly - yes, I can see why DAZ wouldn't want the $5.00 vouchers used on the many, many $1.99 PC items. My attempt at expressing why some may feel aggreived at the marketing spin applied appears to have lacked clarity. The graphic table shows DAZ seemingly giving back $5 every month, free and clear. That's how they come to their final figures. Yet when you look into it: "**Voucher will be granted automatically to the accounts of all qualifying customers once monthly and will be valid for the duration of that month only. Vouchers are good only on DAZ Original Items (excluding Platinum Club Items). +30% Discount only good on DAZ original Items. Not good on resell items, brokered products, or Platinum Club items." DAZ are, as has been pointed out recently in this forum, a brokerage site. A LOT of their content - especially, it feels (so subjective) of late... but these $5.00 vouchers not only become invalid after around 30 days, they also can't even be applied to brokered items AT ALL (not even on the Hydra which I just bought in the sale, and am loving in Poser 5). Being a PC member gives one a 30% discount on DAZ-created items - but zilch on brokered items. Not 15%, not even 5% - nowt. As I repeatedly (it sometimes seems not repeatedly enough) state I think my existing year's worth of PC membership (not finished yet!) has already proven well worth it - and the $5.00 vouchers, as crippled and almost worthless as they seem, are an extra that I wasn't previously promised. I might use some and save even more (depending somewhat on what comes out - after V3 I'm a bit leery of M3 to be honest, though I'm on tinterhooks as to what DAZ Studio plugins might be available). Or, depending on what DAZ release, I might not be able to make good use of any. More likely the former, methinks. When the annual fee was returned to the PC "product" the $5.00 monthly vouchers weren't originally going to be included - now it seems that they are, that's even better (and fairer) for everyone. Looks like staying as an annual-payer is probably going to be in my favour. I believe it's fairly easy to see how the presentation can cause upset, even if the underlying truths are still a good deal - because there's disparity between the initial impression that DAZ is giving about costs, and the final reality. It is, to my mind, a very good deal - it's just not the deal that's being advertised in the headlines. I have what I'm told is an unusual preferance for straight-talking. I detest having to read "small print" in every way imaginable, and the subsequent re-interpreting of the major document in light of small print (this is a world-wide issue, not just at DAZ, sadly).

I don't think anyone has said they want everything for free. However, bear in mind that some Poser sites don't charge us for the privilege of buying their content or getting discounts. Many of us are not rich, and are lucky if we can afford to spend any money on Poser. Every penny literally counts. So we weigh our options, and look for the best deal. It's actually been months since I've found many DAZ3D items that I really wanted to buy. Vicky 3 and Mike 3 are on that list. But now I've been told that Vicky 3 won't work well with Poser 5 because her clothing is meant to take advantage of Crosstalk, and Crosstalk has been eliminated in Poser 5?! Damn, that just killed one very big potential DAZ3D attraction. On the other hand, the Renderosity MarketPlace has always carried a few items that are on my wishlist. I don't need to spend any money for "club dues" in order to buy here!

Caly-Many thanks, I was wrong about the renewal rate, and I'm glad I was wrong, (I'm happy with $69.00 renewal rate). I apoligize to DAZ. Thanks again Caly, for catching my error. :O)

It's sad whjen people or products rely on an "undocumented feature" or "bug" (different people use the same term for the saqme thing - if you're a developer like MS then it's usually a feature ). INJections are another undocumented feature which make V3 something of a pain in Poser 5. There is, however, light at the end of the tunnel. Someone (Nerd?) claims to have found a way to get crosstalk to work deliberately, if via a slightly different method. Someone else IIRC has managed to get "ordinary" crosstalk to work accidentally a few times. It may be that loading the clothing before the figure is important in Poser 5... and at the end of the line you can always copy and paste morph channels from figure to clothing. Yeah, I know - far from ideal but at least possible. Finally, it's always possible that DAZ and CL will stop using us as battering rams to dish out blows to each other and instead concentrate on making each others products work together. Well - I can dream, can't I? MOST likely DAZ Studio, when it shows its face, will most likely turn out to support crosstalk (bug) or super-conforming (feature). As for cash being rare for some of us - how right! I've been tempted to ask if the British "Pound Sterling" is actually an endangered species nowadays, it's so rare around these parts. It's been "fun" trying to keep up with the changing face (and costs) of PC renewals too, though hopefully it has stabalised now for some time. Cheers, Cliff

I have a feeling there will be more new stuff more often in the PC after the one year anniversary, but I don't know if I can say why I think that, so just take my word as an armourer that there's a decent fair chance of that.

Goodness, decoding some of these posts is like working out Kremlin policy from who attended the May Day parade. ;)