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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 07 6:34 pm)
Subject: "DAZ|STUDIO isn't going to be competition for Poser..."
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Believe me, he's not more informed. I don't think DAZ|Studio will mainly use Poser products. Chances are that by the time it leaves Beta, there will be things that we can pack into Poser/D|S files that only D|S can use, and I'm quite certain that by that time just about everything DAZ puts out will be better optimized for D|S, with less and less consideration for Poser over time. However, this is just my assumption. As the CEO of a company that has a product for which competition is springing up he can't exactly say publically that he's scared. I know that I would be if I were him, especially given DAZ's track record when compared to CL's.
BTW, guys, considering where the flow of information about DAZ|Studio comes from, I think it's safe to say that MallenLane is much higher up in the information food chain than Curious Labs' Marc Keohane.
As an added note, I asked him a slew of questions before there were any answers posted, in regards to the bugs that initially existed in P5 and the things that have kept many users from upgrading and how they planned to address the still-remaining issues and what incentive existed for those of us still running P4 or PP (due to stability and render-speed) to upgrade to P5.... needless to say several Q&A's have come and gone and I have yet to see my question or a similar one, or any involving the render speeds addressed to any remote satisfaction.
DraX, No surprise on the lack of answers. Remeber, this is the company that didn't even say thank you to the SR2 beta testers. So far Marc has answered 21 questions. 21 is a lot. But most of the answers are the same: New packaging on P4 and we're going to call it "Artist", P6 will be coming, and oh yeah, we're going to do another SR for P5, but that's all you're getting on P5. "Artist" bothers me though. Someone mentioned that they got P4 and Pro Pack at Fry's for $89. Really any software for less than that might as wll be on the cheap CD rack with 101 Fonts and Windows 3.0 games. He's calling P5 their professional level product. Right. I'd hate to base a large project with a delivery date on P5. Of course, what he's here for is to boost CL's sales. And Studio is going to cut into them. He doesn't want Studio to be anything else but a Poser add-on. I think Daz wants it to be anything but a Poser add-on. And considering the track record of both companies, I'm betting on Daz.
DAZ|Studio is the most over-hyped piece of software I ever had the pleasure to not having worked with yet... Please, why speculate on the comparative merits of a software that isn't even released yet? I really feel sorry for the good people at DAZ having to work under this kind of pressure, with a community that expects this presumably bug-free, inexpensive, high-performing killer application to sweap the floor not only with Poser 5, but with all coming releases of Poser as well (releases we haven't seen either)
Without the ability to save files in the initial release >(according to the specs page, which is currently all we >know about Studio), it's close to useless without Poser. True, but if they've invested over a year in developing it, I assume that they will eventually bring it out of beta with all features enabled. At that point it will no longer need Poser. I obviously have no idea of the quality of the app, but it will eventually be in direct competition with Poser for sales of new seats and upgrades.
Attached Link: http://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/~sw19/files/judy.mov
It better be more than just a "render engine" (which it isn't, 3Delight is the supposed render engine), I don't need to wait for Studio just to use 3Delight with Poser.
Attached Link: http://www.3delight.com
Yep, and 3Delight is a free proggie.Every
organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian
Assange
Reading their releases, d/s is a standalone product working with both pz3's and obj's with lighting and poses etc.. I do think a lot of people seem to be writting off curious labs when 5 was their first real attempt at the product. None of you have used daz studio yet, how do you know it will be better, how many of you have complained that poser 5 is too slow etc.. compared to what is stated on their website or press releases. How can you judge 2 products when you have not even had the chance to use one of them? How many of you have gone to the cinema because the film was hyped up, only to find that the film was not worth watching? The problem is the hype on these products, and people coming in here and asking "will daz studio be better than poser 5" and similar questions are just wasting storage space. I would be interested in daz studio but I am waiting until it comes out.
I don't think Daz Studio is over-hyped actually. We are all aware of what the first release will be basically capable of. I think it will be superior to Poser 5 in the long run because Daz has much better business practices than CL. It seems obvious so far that Daz isn't rushing out the product, instead taking their time and working out the bugs. Plus they admit it will be a beta version, some of us paid a good deal of money to beta test P5 without knowing first. :) So I think people know it won't be a better program after that download is complete but should feel it will be eventuallly. Daz is the kind of company that will listen to it's customers and stick with this thing until it's right. It also has the blueprint of what not to do in this situation courtesy of CL. We'll all have to contribute to build Daz Studio. But I'd rather invest the time and money on something like this because CL isn't going to see another penny from me ever.
zodo "I don't think Daz Studio is over-hyped actually. We are all aware of what the first release will be basically capable of. I think it will be superior to Poser 5 in the long run because Daz has much better business practices than CL" 1. I am not aware what it will be basically capable of 2. You only think it will be better you have not used it 3. Is this not daz's first real attempt at a product like this anyway? 4. How much do you think we realistically contribute to daz other than our hard earned cash? Carolly, is that seen or used? There is a big difference.
OK, I'll play along... 1. Based on the information found at http://www.daz3d.com/products/studio.php under what should be expected for the initial release. Nothing there is really beyond comprehension is it? I'm a 100% sure everything listed there will actually be implemented and implemented correctly? Of course not. But I feel confident that they didn't bite off more than they could chew there. 2. I haven't used the software, I don't think it will it will be better than P5 out of the box obviously. But I feel they are going about it the right way. 3. Not quite true. What about Mimic 2.0? People seemed pleased with it and it incorporated some features expected to be in the initial release. 4. I think the first thing is reporting bugs obviously. A distant second would be making helpful suggestions. I think it's safe to assume that is why the initial release will be available for free, no? After that stage we give them our hard earned cash. :)
i think the statements the CEO of CL ought to sent to the program JackAss on MTV. mainly because they are falling on their faces, and alot of important questions that were asked but weren't asked at all, something a Jackass would avoid to answer if they could speak. i argree will MallenLane, he isn't inform,, he just a pencil neck filling in for someone elses mistake, and stalling for time to keep us as Loyal CL users. a bit late for that, mainly for some of us Mac users. in short, who really cares about CL anymore? lies after lies, promies you this and that and never delivered, and don't plan to ( you know kupa;s new animals, ect..) if you go back thru allthe threads and read the the complains from all the members, you can read for yourselfs why CL is digging its own hole to buried thier heads in.
- based on their information, I am also sure that curios labs posted such info for poser 5 but did it actually live up to it? What they c/l have on their site is not beyond comprehension, just implemented poorly. 2. mimic is a far cry from a fully fledged "poser like" piece of software and therefore their first attempt at such. 3. going about it the right way! when was the last time you heard from daz about the current state of daz studio? The right way would be to keep people up to date with what is happening with the product. It's been almost 7 months since they last updated the info. 4. free for an undedermined time, could meen they will charge you for it when they release the version that is save enabled. Therefore it is only another marketing gimmick.
Another thing to consider is that DS will be a plug in based application. We don't know exactly what will be in the core app, by any stretch of imagination. Or how long your favorite functionality will be in development. I would be highly surprised if there is -any- animation capability to begin with, for instance. Most don't do it, so that can slide and be implemented as a plugin....more likely several plugins, so that you have Max compatible export, Maya compatible, Lightwave, Renderman...etc. And the plugins are in no way going to be free. Then we come to the fact that it is already several months past the announced release date of DS. The fanboy response is 'They're doing it right!' while the business term is 'missed milestone'. See the beginning of a pattern? Mimic 2 is indeed a good start, but we have no idea how much of that is DAZ's; that could have been in the works by the company who made Mimic, and it was just polished and completed. I'm not anti-DAZ, either, but the hard truth is that the economy in Utah is sucking the same rancid canal water that the economy in California did. And if it comes to it, their cash flow currently comes from the models and accessories they provide. That would come first. And if a 'Poser-like' product was so bloody easy to code, there would be at least two or three freeware Win apps, Ghu only knows how many 'Nix apps, and at least one Mac app by now. Personally, I think we're looking at a split in the community coming up. DS is looking like it will have all the nice, complicated interfaces to appeal to the 'professional', while Poser will go forth to fill the niche that those of us who really don't have the (a)money or (b)time to master one of the 'Big 4'. And if CL and DAZ are smart, they will get over the stepped on toes and work together on this. The pie is big enough for both, and keeping compatibility would be worth it in the long run for =BOTH= entities.
Some rules that I try to stick by in situations like this: - Never evaluate software you haven't seen - Never compare a commercially available product with a not yet released product still under development As for the comparision between DAZ and Curious Labs: DAZ is primarly a content producer. They have no track record in software development when it comes to developing a fully blown 3D application. They appear to have a good corporate culture, and I hope that will help them to be succesful in this new field as well. Time will tell if they make it. Curious Labs has done some serious mistakes in their history. They are aware of these mistakes. They are obviously using these experiences to enhance their R&D process as well as other areas that have, to various degrees, failed. Time will tell if they make it. (Lets not forget that have done a lot of things right as well!) The question is: Who will make a better product? A company with a great company culture but with no experience in developing such a product? Or a company with a deep experience in developing such a product, even if this experience partly comes from doing some pretty serious mistakes in the past? I don't have the answer to that question, but it sure will be interesting to see how things evolve. Finally: I have never seen a market where it is a disadvantage that a second player enters the field. Usually, it's an advantage to the companies competing in the market as well. I think CL will benefit from DAZ|Studio being a succesful product. The market will expand, and both companies will benefit from it.
What I am attempting to point out is that people are already comparing the two products when they have not even seen a released product from Daz. All products sound great on paper but not all products live up to the expectation (hype) You will not know if it is a competitor until it is released and that it has had the chance to iron out the bugs etc.. so this time next year may be a better target for comparing and not befor the other product is released.
Statement after statement has come from Daz, all indicating that the Base program will remain free. Of course, I still do't know what that includes--but I can read. The Alpha gui has controls for x, y, z movement-- thus posing can be done in Daz Studio. We know it has a renderer, we know the name of the renderer and we know it has Open Gl support. At one point, people from Daz commmented-- this was on a forum at PoserPros-- that the release date had been reset, considering the upset over the inability to save. That's a pretty fair statement of what I remember. Doesn't mean that the first Beta will be save enabled, but I'm hoping it is. You do more work on something you can show off to its best and a screen capture is not optimum. Heck, the way some comments are going you'd think Daz Studio was something you imported V3 into and turned her around under lights then exported her to Poser to render. Might be moot for me anyway, I'm thinking of jumping ship for Carrara. Emily
"It better be more than just a "render engine" (which it isn't, 3Delight is the supposed render engine), I don't need to wait for Studio just to use 3Delight with Poser." Yes but Im certain that the 3D delight renderer in DAZ studio will neatly hidden behind a render button. I own Cinema4DXl and Lightwave fro rendering so D/S is a non issue for me but I downloaded 3d delight for OSX and so far its VERY unintuitive.!!!! I tried to render .rib file from poserpro4 and got all sort of errors admittedly i havent dug deep into the manual but to claim this is viable alternative renderer for the average poser user is wishful thinking in my opinion.
D|S is not a "plugin" for Poser, it is a seperate application that over time will have more and more functionality added on to it via plug ins. At first, all it will be able to do is import .PZ3 files and render them with its brand spankin' new renderer. It has been said that the first version of D|S will be able to save renders, but not scene files. I think MallenLane said that, correct me if I'm wrong. Later versions will be able to save scene files as well, but when it is first released, it will just be a seperate renderer for Poser. As to whether or not it will be competition... at first, I think not, seeing as it will just be a kind of "add on" for Poser. However once they start releasing posing and animation plugins, yes, I think it will start giving Poser some serious competition. DAZ have also stated on their site that they intend to create a D|S specific file format, so I wouldn't be suprised if once D|S is fully up and running, that they stop making products for Poser, and start making them specifically for D|S (although Curious Labs could add in D|S file format functionality in a future release of Poser, just like D|S will have Poser file format fucntionality in addition to its own). Just my two cents. :-)
We'll see how it shakes out. personally it all reminds me a bit of the Betamax and VHS wars. We all know who won, and it wasn't the better technology... rather it was the one that was mass produced, the one consumers had adopted as it was cheaper and non-proprietary... there was more available in the VHS format. We can also talk about PCs and Macs in that regard too. Macs are overall a better computer for years, but the proprietary software and the price of the box favour most people to buy PCs. As you can see... even if you're better, it doesn't always guarantee raving success. I haven't seen D|S so I cannot say if its a good or bad application, what I have heard about it says its far better than Poser. But I have a high investment in Poser and Poser related products, and a strong unwillingness to change due to that, and so that's the uphill battle D|S is going to face. I do think DAZ has considered that situation though. As I said, we'll see. Its in the future, nothing to worry about now... at least for us consumers.
sithgoblin... its better than poser, but how D|S renders in preview mode is worthless information to those of us that render in applications that are light years better than Poser for rendering anyway. what is very worthwhile information for me, is if it can act as a plugin to my preferred rendering app, how easy it is to pose and rig figures, etc. I'm excited about the possibilities of D|S... but I am still very much aware that they are just possibilities at the present time, as its not yet available for me to use.
I wont even bother with D/S until the lightwave plugins are released any way
After reading through all these posts I wonder if it would even be legal for Daz Studio to write it's own PZ3, or CR2 files? Importing a file is one thing, but saving a file using Curious Labs' file format may be stepping over the line.
Of course there are plenty of apps that make these files, but none of these other apps would be a threat or competition with Curious Labs.
To my knowledge Curious Labs has not said that you can't make or alter a Poser file without Poser, but that could change. Or could it?
Would Daz need to license the file format, and could they?
Attached Link: http://www.keindesign.de/stefan/poser/poserman.html
**wolf359:** *i havent dug deep into the manual but to claim this is viable alternative renderer for the average poser user is wishful thinking in my opinion.* Not yet, but I am working on an exporter for Poser, that you could try yourself if you had Poser 5 and Windows, see the link. **sithgoblin:** May I remind you of "California Dreaming" and the screenshots in it? I'd be careful to judge an app just by three screenshots. *And I remember reading something about the D|S render engine and Renderman, don't remember what, but Renderman sure is good...* To put things straight: RenderMan is a specification, and API, not a renderer. PRMan is Pixar's implementation of RenderMan, 3Delight is DNASoft's impelementation of RenderMan and Poser 5's FireFly is also a RenderMan implementation to a certain degree. They also have in common that they're micropolygon renderers with procedural shading, giving them an advantage over classic raytracers when it comes to displacements, 3d motion blur or depth of field(*). In contrast, they are usually slower at raytracing. (*) Note how applications like Cinema 4D implement depth of field and motion blur only as post effects and not as render effects and that their displacements are limited by the mesh resolution.
that's ok, as the lighting and rendering models are way better in C4D and Carrara. In Carrara, I have real refraction, and real caustics in renderers that use photon mapping. I have a plugin to C that gives me fresnel refraction and fresnel reflection as well. HDRI is really a nice plus, and something I am really into learning lately. Not listening to this Poser as Renderer hype, when I see the difference so clearly between a Carrara render and a Poser render, and C4D is not that different regarding the photon mapping and HDRI either. I'd rather the time spent on an application that is a super super posing and animation tool, something that works with other programs I work with extremely well. If someone finally quits throwing toys at me and starts to realise what I want... I'll happily switch to that application. Or stay with the one I am currently using. It just depends. I'm the customer, and so I just wait and see who wants to make me happy. g P5 I bought for the cloth room. I like the cloth room a lot. But I still export it to render in Carrara.
Carrara and C4D are a completely different type of application (C4D having a completely different price too). Poser is primarily a character animation tool, it doesn't need a particle system, metaballs, lens flares or explosion effects (and will hopefully never get them). Instead, it has the face room, cloth simulation and strand-based hair. Makes sense to me...
exactly... which is why I like using Poser for posing :) I use Poser for posing all the time, its the best bang for the buck for character posing and animation. Just tired of the 'this renderer is better' crap when a great many of us don't even use the Poser renderer in the first place, not even Firefly. I use it to preview poses and scenes, to make sure figures aren't posed badly before export... I don't even bother to change the default lighting in Poser most of the time g
Note... the strand based hair doesn't export well to render in other applications. As I don't use Poser for rendering, the strand based hair is also not used by me. Would be nice if it did export via a plugin. I rarely use the face room, though that may change as I get more acquainted with Don. Judy doesn't interest me much as I have a boatload of female characters of better quality already, and I am very capable of morphing them to my needs.
Note... the strand based hair doesn't export well to render in other applications. As I don't use Poser for rendering, the strand based hair is also not used by me. Would be nice if it did export via a plugin. I don't know if there are many apps outside the RenderMan crowd that render curves; Shag hair for 3ds and Shave and Haircut provide their own renderer. The thing is that these hair plugins and Poser don't store the hair as polygon meshes but just as curves for better efficiency (polygons would need at least 4x the memory). It's the renderers that turns them into polygons when required. However, if desired, it's quite easy to get access to all hair CVs and export them in a custom format. I do that in my RenderMan exporter/plugin (see the two links I posted previously), feel free to peek into the Python source to see how it's done.
I'll wait and see. It's funnny but I've already seen false assumptions... again I suggest visiting the Daz site, like others have before. :)
Calypso Dreams... My Art- http://www.calypso-dreams.com
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"...because Studio will mainly use Poser products." that was the answer i got from the ceo of poser. i disagree, but he's more informed. what do you all think? seems to me that daz products (v3 and m3, etc...) will more than compensate for poser figures. opinions?