I was so excited to be part of a new group and upload my fractal and fractal/Poser miximages and instead of hello nice to meet you or nice work I get nasty people like peapod and Fractalgirl... Yes one person Longride was nice but even though lots of people looked at my image nobody else made any comments at all....maybe like my friend says I need to hang out more and get to know everyone first but I definately see a cold unfriendly type of feeling in this place. People like that Ppeapod person who have no talent are just the reason why I dont like joinig places like this. Can somebody tell me one reason I should stay??????????????????????????

Perhaps you should not judge other people as untalented. I think nobody should do this. Surely many people see themselves as talented. But this here is not the place to really judge it. Neither the number of views nor the number of comments or good rankings are a true judgement of talent. Images may be judged here, others are ignored, that is the way this gallery works. Insulting people does not help anyone.

Taking a risk of being flamed, and stepping into the question....

I was one of those who took a look at your pic "Thorns.." and left without commenting. Here's why:

First, your thumbnail is a typical Renderosity Poser gallery thumbnail--to be a bit crude, it's T-and-A. While that may have certainly garnered the viewing hits, the main reason that fractal artists would choose to look, would be to see how well the fractal integrated with the added elements. For many of us, that is of greater importance than looking at naked women.

Second, your public vehement explosion in reaction to the remarks posted are enough to turn me away. If you indeed have a problem with a critique, try using the R'osity IM feature and ask for a more complete explanation---if that is indeed what you desire. However, your reaction indicates that it is not.

Third, 'hanging out' may or may not be the route to gaining approval. I know that I certainly don't post messages or replies here in the Fractal forum as often as I should, but I do know that treating others with respect, not spite, is more likely to gain friendships--expecially online, where the written word is nearly permanent. Your message here, as well as your posting by your image, will create a lasting impression.

Think about it.

Freak, you obviously are not an experienced artist, Poser or otherwise, as with experience comes exposure to critique. Honestly, if you want to ensure no negative comments, turn off the feature when you post your work, then that ensures your widdle feelings will be protected from any negative, even constructive, criticism. One tip, though, part of being an artist, and living in the art world is critique. In studying the history of art, one is able to not only understand a particular artist's work, vision and technique, but it lays a foundation for one's own work. Inherent in the study of art is critique. Some people, though, really are not artists in the true sense; they just whip out the Poser (or whatever), and click away at it, not understanding anything at all, and also not willing to learn. Getting indignant when you get less than glowing reviews (and my comment was very mild, compared to what I was really wanting to write), not only makes you look bad, but you cut yourself off from the opportunity to improve your work. Not everyone is going to like our work, and that's okay. But get a grip why don't you.

Lisa..... You don't say how old you are, but you're acting like a child with this grandstanding, temper-tantrum post. Perhaps I was a bit too harsh with my comment, and I apologize if I hurt you, that was not my intention--I am not a mean-spirited person. But to me, your image has no redeeming qualities (except maybe the BladePro frame) and it offended me in some ineffable way. I guess I am tired of seeing lousy T&A (a nod to Rosemary) Poser women smacked into the middle of mediocre images with an artist's signature arrogantly placed in the corner, along with the tendency to actively solicit commentary without wanting truth. I hope you stick around the community, if only to learn from others and challenge yourself by pushing your skills as far as they can go. I do not believe for a moment that "Thorns" is the best you can do. And I don't think you do, either. Mindy (Peapodgrrl)

I have always found the Fractal Gallery people to be the most friendly people on this site. They give advice, they encourage newbies and look out for each other. The one most important thing is that they (we) all love fractals. That is not to say that we dont like other art, or combinations of fractals with other, but we respect the fractal. Browse thru the gallery and look at people's images and the comments, and you will see that there is a great deal of camaraderie and encouragement. I, too, looked at your image, and truthfully had a hard time figuring out where the fractal was. Many of the people who post here are very talented, some are known nationwide or even worldwide as excellent fractal artists, and they come here to share their love of the genre. Stay, look around, find a fractal program that you like, and enjoy fractalling. Tres

to amlober-people judge me as untalented so I have the right to the same! to Rosemary-Don;t tell me what I may or may not desire....ask me if I care that what I did was enough to turn you away. to fractalgrrl- your full of hot air. I can tell the difference between a critic and jealousy. to Pod Queen-I'd like to see you make a Poser image..oh no wait, I forgot, it's not a flower so you couldnt do it.... LOL to Tresamie- friendly???????????!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah, right. I decided I may just hang around because I know more about fractals than all of you put together, maybe you can learn something from me. Ever think of that??? You talk to me like I dont know what I am doing, well I am also a successful artist known nationwide and I have crednetials also..........my image was beautiful and well done and Longrider is the only person who has talent out of all of you.

LOL!!! I'm so glad I looked in here tonight; your post has given me one of the biggest laughs I've had all day. I'd stay away from sharp objects if I were you -- you're so full you're ready to pop! Yes, you found me out -- I'm terribly jealous. Green, even. Well, more of a teal, though a sagey color with a nice purple is always lovely... Hey, I wanted to ask you, what are those bug/amoeba things hanging on the the thorns around the woman's ass, anyway? And is that Jesus? He looks either like he needs to take his meds, or he's having impure thoughts. Gotta see those professed awards... Wheee! Back to work. With a chuckle. :)

sigh
Well, I see that things are going to be a bit more lively here in the message Forum for a while.

But hey! At least I got my expected flaming! I think I should feel privileged to have fractal_freak not care if I turn away.

I dunno, Rosemary, since Freak is obviously so much better at Poser than you (LMAO!), maybe you should just give up. Or maybe sign up for lessons (ghastly idea, really). Sorry, this is just too funny. Either that, or it's too much fun playing hookey from my work... Or both. :)

Tina.........I am surprised you didn't say FF was Vince. :) Fraktal Freak, how are them thorns in your soul doing?

LOL!! Oh, there you are -- just what I need, more excuse to procrastinate. :) Listen, I can't talk right now -- I'm too seized up from jealousy. Have your people call my people, and maybe we'll get together and take lessons from freaky-deaky Poser Boy. Heheh. Okay, that's enough snark for a bit. It's just all too hilarious. :)

I think Thorns in My Soul is a gal, hon. :) I am procrastinating, too. It's my favorite pasttime. :)

How do you know that?

well, hell.... between the posts on this thread, and the posts from that thorny thing, y'all got me laughing so hard I done choked diet coke all over my laptop... 'scuse me while I clean this up... thanks for the grins R

rosemary, shame on you for spelling it right... shoulda been fraktal_freak... tsk tsk... actually, I'm thinking it shoulda been a lot of things, none of them even remotely related to fractals.... R

I think she signed her name Lisa in her original post. Hey RussaLynn :) How are you, sweetie? hug

Russalyn, I really do think you should be 'speaking' in a much more respectful tone, you know? Sheesh, no sense of propriety and reverence around a master (or mistress, whatever the case may be), at all. :-D Okay, so in looking it over, it does 'sound' like a female, Min. Going by stereotypical gender constructs, blah, blah, blah. Someone give me some thorns so I can poke my eyes out.

Actually, I looked at "Thorns in My Soul" for a second time, and I realized how masterful it was.

Okay, then YOU take lessons. :) Ahh, okay. Guess I was so 'entranced' by the masterful poser work I missed the name.

hi Mindy!!!! waving i like the new patterns!! especially yellow mornings..grin hey, i just spent the day in the dentist's chair, my whole friggin' face hurts, and the last thing i wanna do is smile, let alone laugh... typing with a MUCH more deferencial tone that's better... mistress or master, whichever you are today, i've been thinking that maybe my images aren't quite ready for prime time... i figure if i follow in your footsteps i'll never have to think that again... because i'll know for certain... 'course i could just go tina's thorns to the eyeballs route... be a whole lot easier on the eyes in the long run..

LOL!! Ah, you poor woman -- I hate going to the dentist's (not that anyone actually likes it, of course). Sheesh, ya never know who you're going to meet online, eh?

online....? wait a sec, you mean this isn't real life???? boy, did i make a wrong turn somewhere...

:) That's cuz you were on that abstracted, purple bridge of yours. Ugh. I'm ready for a vacation now.

tsk-tsk Now, grrrrrls.
Let's not be too hard on the poor professional artist who's only trying to make friends here at the Renderosity amateur show. We should be kinder, gentler, and more sympathetic of the difficulties that Lisa is facing when presenting her accomplishments to the cruelity of the peons who just don't 'get it'.

(snort, chuckle, guffaw)

[Dang, I'm bad...I should be punished for my bad, bad thoughts.]

Of course, this has gotten me to do more writing in the forum than I normally do, so there is an up-side to the whole matter.....

Hi Mindy, Rosemary and Tina! I was just browsing through the forum. I read what everyone said, and I must admit I cracked up! You guys are hillarious, I needed a good laugh! My question is, where is this image you are discussing? I went to fraktal_freaks homepage, and gallery, she has deleted everything on there! I was curious to see this image. Don't quite know how I missed it when it was posted! If you can help I would appreciate it! Thanks...Vicky

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=473017&Start=1&Sectionid=30&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNew=Yes Here it is, Vicky--but I warn you, wear dark glasses and keep some Xanax close by. ;)

hhhmmmm. Trying to erase the evidence, huh? The forensics team can deal with that.
Still, laughter is the best way to deal with troll infestations.

Oh my goodness! I definitely missed this one! This woman is sick! This isn't art this is a mockery to me! I totally agree with you guys on this one! There is nothing sacred at all here! I am appauled, this is disgusting! I'm glad none of our artwork can be compared to this, so called "art"! So Mindy you keep those beautiful flowers and the serene "FRACTALS" coming R'ositys way! That goes for Rosemary, Tina, and Russalyn, all of which are the "True Artists" on this site!!!!!!!!!!!! Vicky(Mrs.paragon5)

In response to fraktal_freak's comment about no-one else commenting on the image... I must say that I was going to comment on it. I looked at the image for several minutes trying to find something appropriate to say. Unfortunately, I started to get mental images of thorny branches being inserted into my ass... At which point I left without saying anything... Hope this is a valid excuse for not commenting?

LOL!! Yes, I would think that's a valid reason, CI. :)

ROFL!!! I must say, this is the most amused I've ever been here. Hey, Lisa! Thanks for posting your art -- it was the genesis for the most laughs I've ever gotten in this venue. Please, post more! If you can lower yourself to do so, that is. :) Oh goodness, y'all are just cracking me up!

Just one question comes to mind. Where are those awards located that Lisa aka fraktal_freak says she has? There's no proof on the internet no where! Me and William checked and would'nt you know it, we can't find anything! It's probably best that way! Vicky

Well, I don't know about any awards (ha!), Vicky, but a friend emailed me, after doing some searches and said: I believe Fractal Freak is somehow associated with contemporary Christian music. Her name turns up several times in a YahooGroup called HolyHipHop, as well as a number of references to obscure mp3 sites -- usually in Russia -- like this one: http://artists.mp3s.ru/view/artist/Lisa%20Hammel/ There were also results that point towards an art critic for the NY Times, but that seems ever so unlikely. LMAO!

Your all a bunch of no talent losers....you cant even make real art which is why you stick to fractals only, you couldnt do real art if someone held a gun to your head.....I looked at all of your galleries and I laughed, and I showed them to all my artist friends, who also won awards and they laughed also to think that you are criticing me, of all people. Not only are you a bunch of wannabe artists, but you are also viscious and nasty....ganging up on an innocent new person who just wanted to join the fun and post some art until I get attacked by the pod monster and the rest of you piled on. Thorns in my Soul is going to be the signature graphic for a new popular website as wellas appear in an art magazine and other stuff I made has also been featured in various places also. Where has your work appeared, Rosemary? Where has your work appeared, Pod monster? Paragon? PennyLane? Fractalgirl? Crimonally Insane, your handle is apropriate, i think you should keep it. Your gallery had us laughing just as hard as Pod Monster. No I am not the critic for the New York Times and I have nothing to do with christanin music as I am not even Christian but thats none of your business anyway. How sick that you took the time to look all of that up, it just shows how nasty and sick you all are. I dare you to try to make real art and stop hiding behind fractals. I know you can't do it. People who have no talent are always picking on those who do.

Art is to invoke. Having said that the piece is well done for it has invoked and has lived up to its name. I don't think its the worst piece of work in the forum. I have seen worst I think there are a couple in my gallery.

Notice she still hasn't cited any place where her credentials, awards, or professional work can be located or identified. Still the rabid frothing.

Well, Fraktal_freak, I can cite:
I have done art for two CD covers for Drimala Records, some 3d clipart for Magic Mouse Productions, and won a Honorable Mention as a student for the North Bay Multimedia Association for a Director animation piece. It may not be much compared to a professional like yourself, but at least I can list them without fear of being exposed as a phony for my claims.

Put up or shut up.

Well there's one award we all know she hasn't won! That would be the one for spelling!LOL To clarify to Lisa and join Rosemary. William and I have had several offers since we have been on R'osity. We have sold some of our images to a fabric company. William is the true artist in the family, I just do fractals because I love them! He has airbrushed quite a few murals in the local schools. He also has airbrushed cars and trucks and signs..etc! If you would like to see some of his artwork we have a web page at www.always-online.com/wbstroud/page1, go take a look! It's not whether we're all professionals. It's not even how many credentials and awards we have, it's whether or not we are happy with ourselves and our work at the end of the day! When we first started posting our work on this site, I had to deal with some constructive criticism. I didn't post anything that could compare to "Thorns", but the point is I took the comments and tried to make my images better! If she is so angry because of some critique, then maybe she needs to change her hobby! Vicky

hi lisa! maybe you did not know, but this forum is not the place to discuss about someones more or less talent. in the gallery are so many images every day that one cannot comment them all, even if one could like them all. but to expect this is not realistic and has nothing to do with talent or goodwill at all! what did you expect? a gallery is not like a stage where the public give first an applause when an artist (one of over 1500!)comes in. it's a pity but no surprise that you cannot find friends with your "charming" introduction here. maybe it works better if you take the thorns out of your words? peace! sophie

I ask myself, how does it come that fractal_freak had to laugh about the criminally insane flame fractals?
And why does she (?) say that fractals are no real art? Is Poser art? And is combining both an art form? And if not - why not?
So far fractal_freak does not prove what she said about her own awards and tutorials, so perhaps it is all hot air.

I do not see myself as an artist, I just like my painting fractal images. And so far my PC does not paint them for me, I have to work on them for much more than just a few minutes. I have got no awards so far, but I do not boast with my "art"...

lol .... i am really laughing about this forum ... looks more like bitchin' post ... everyone has an artist in themselves, no matter how much effort ya do to sculpt something from yer mind ... there ain't no losers either nor non-talented artists ... i think ya all are very good in what you do ... and if we learn something from each other, then we are good teachers and students ... in the end we will all produce awesome images ... and get wonderful comments ... i maybe wrong, but isn't that really what did forum is for... to help each other with what we do love to do most of the time? so please do not bash at each other again, thats not exactly what we are here for ... thank you :-) Harmen

You want someone to give you a reason to stay, Lisa? OK, I will... I like you, you've got balls bigger than King Kong and you make me laugh! So please stay... And no, this isn't a joke... Matt.

hmm ... is that a poser image? i miss a finger on that right hand ... the middle finger perhaps? well show us what your talents are exactly, then people might stop with these ludicrous messages ... and if your as good as you say you are, why not show us what ya are able to do, or are ya just a tosser LOL

now i see: writing some unfriendly words into the forum and under the own image brings more views to a kitschy thing in a few days than i can get in two years on all my images together. this fact makes me think about deleting my gallery and just let one image (the worst one!) in it at once (this is more efficient, isn't it?). i try to learn from everybody. so we can learn how to get a lot of attention with less work on images ;-). anyway, this makes me thoughtful about human reactions on aggression in general. btw... lisa: you forgot to check the violence button!

your not gonna delete 258 images from this community, that would be such a waste, your images are great to look at and on the scoreboard lisa is losing it 10 to ZERO ... now all she has to do is prove herself worthy to this community, by doing that what she says she is, from what she tells about herself, she must be pretty good, but for as long as she doesn't ... she doesnt come to either of our level ... and maybe one day we will forgive her for what she has said, and we can all start from scratch with her ... so LISA ... it's up to you LMFAOWTIME

Peabodgrrl wrote "You say you love fractals; perhaps your love for them will allow you to let them alone when tempted to work with them again." Ouch that hurt. I for one ashamed of the face this post has shown. When I was in third grade my foster parents told me I would never be the artist my foster sister was. I idolized her talent and stopped drawing and lost any interest in art Any art I did was because it was required. Till years later when teacher took me aside and showed me I could enjoy art. But by that time the damage had been done. Not really I got over it and got better but I wonder how much better I would have been had I been encouraged the other way. Please don't ever tell anyone to stop creating art.

Ours is a politically correct world gone mad. We fearfully use tepid euphemisms to describe everything from blindness ("sight challenged") to job descriptions ("sanitation consultant"); we are so afraid of "offending" others that we couch our words in meaningless pablum and false niceties that succeed in neutering any meaningful communication. God forbid anybody is forced to hear even a scintilla of truth; no honest expression is allowed lest they become "offended" by someone with the temerity to gasp express an honest thought. You see forty some odd posts in this thread because you are watching human expression and candor in action--the enthusiasm for an honest exchange of opinions is evident in its length. Look how the dam bursts when phony politesse is exchanged for real discourse.

When you go to a public discussion forum or community and actively solicit commentary, you'd better be prepared for feedback. Though I am not a Christian, I took offense to a tawdry, sexual cheapening of a religious icon and said so. The recipient of my remark has shown that her art is only the least of the areas in which she is sorely lacking. And by the looks of this thread, I am not alone.

Mindy

While I was not (quite) as offended by the picture itself as some, it was her level of rudeness and spite that got my ire up.
In fact, I did find three good things about the picture itself, but a larger number of flaws, both artistic and technical. I had been mentally composing a private IM with some tips that might have aided it, but then saw the venomous attack on Mindy and the others, and decided that such a person wouldn't want any suggestions from -anyone-. Even then, my first post was a calm reasonable response to answer the question fraktal_freak asked in the first post of this thread: "Why are people viewing but not commenting?". But it -seems- that getting that question answered was not the real reason Lisa posted here in the Forum, as every statement she makes thereafter shows vividly.

Oh, the three -good- points of the pic?

1. The frame matched the coloration of the fractal.
   ] 2. She did use a fractal in a composited image. (I do give credit for the attempt--but not the result.)
2. She did attempt to illustrate an idea--again, the results were lacking.

Point taken and to an extent correct but I for one will try to refrain from telling anyone not to create or attempt to create. I often remind myself that my favorite artist Dali studied the works of my least favorite Picasso A wise man can learn form a fool. Its interesting that you see religious contexts in the picture. I don't see it the picture. But i have the bias of spending 8 years in the care of baptist preacher. I view the picture as a breakup piece the figure in the lower left corner possibly an x boyfriend or husband who left her over issues dealing with sexuality and possibly weight. These two thing she considers thorns.

sorry last post was for peabodgrrl.

Lisa must have had something religious in mind or she wouldn't have labeled the image fractal/religious spiritual. I personally was offended. I feel a posting like this one, is not appropriate for the fractal gallery. I feel nudity of any kind or partial nudity, shouldn't be in the fractals. They have galleries in R'osity for that kind of image. I am a Christian and I believe in standing up for what is right! If I said anything to hurt Lisa's feelings, I'm truly sorry. But I am not sorry for feeling this image should have been put in a different gallery. Vicky