Well I'm all about progress...!! I think the interface looks kinda silly, reminds me of TrueSpace a bit, but it's all about functionality. And I don't care how it looks if it improves functionality... A couple of points : 1. Are these just screenshots made in Photoshop or what, Pendulum? I don't understand, are you actually programming this all in there, or just laying out a visual wish list? Have you calculated all the programming and math involved for these features? Not to be TOO doubtful, but I've never heard of you and have no idea who you are. If you can program THAT good, why not just ditch Bryce altogether and create something NEW and more powerful? Vue, although I refuse to use it for political reasons, was built exactly on that premise. If you can out-program the Bryce creators, then why are you trying to latch on to their legacy? 2. Wishlists have been made before. If what you are really seeking is a program to do your art for you, then you're not making art anymore. There is no way any version of Bryce will outmodel a regular modeling program, otherwise we'd be seeing all kinds of copyright infringements. Hell, we are lucky we even GOT metaballs, Play could have smoked the whole idea back when Amorphium 1 was still out. Also, will people who still have 800x600 monitors get smoked on this one, too? Don't get me wrong, I want to see an advanced version just as much as the next Brycer. But given technology, the R&D alone for some of your features would cost millions. And like others have said, trying to make Bryce into a high-end app is not it's purpose. If you want C4D's functions, get Cinema 4D. One thing to keep in mind, everyone : Bryce is a canyon. It is a real place on a real Earth. It is a PIECE of the Earth. This program was never meant to be an end-all. It was made to model and render canyons, and landscapes, and although we all love flexing it to do new things, if you take away it's roots, you have something that is NOT Bryce. It is a different application entirely. If Bryce Canyon itself could sue someone over all this, I guarantee that it would.

This is great Scott.... Glad you got ahold of Corel. I am also glad to hear that someone in the upper eschelons of Corel "was very positive about what I was doing.. and he said: "its great to see, and to know that there is that kind of support for Bryce"" Hope that they wake up soon and get to work on a Bryce 6... I could get used to this UI. After all it is like SDL said... it is all about functionality. If the functionality improves, that is what we want.

Hi guys.. sorry for not posting back sooner.. I didnt get an email to tell me about the replies strangely. Answers to the questions that are new. No, I am NOT a programmer. I am a web coder, but thats just other stuff. I am merely developing the designs and features... wishlist.. yes. But I have the skills to completely develop the interface and graphics, that's as far as my skillset goes. Yes, I understand Bryce was meant to just be a lendscape program.. however.. something called evolution effects everything, and as you can no doubt tell.. people use bryce more for full 3d scenery than they do for just terrains. Lets face it.. we want bryce to be a full on 3D application, that retains the simple style and easy of use of Bryce. Many of the new features still centre around lendscape and environment creation also. I understand the costs involved in implementing such features, although I think that someone is getting paid a little TOO much for their coding skills if it does cost that much. Just for your interests.. I have also contacted the Bryce team at Corel directly and am awaiting a reply. Even more interesting, is that Bryce was and perhaps still available to buy.. but not for over a milllion... more like $250,000 to $300,000 USD. So, my friends, if no one wants to play, I will gather up some investors... heck... if every person on the petition to save Bryce all put in $300each... we could buy it and have Bryce as an open source program!!! But my project still stands.. and I will be showing some new screen shots very soon. I'll be showing a demo of the materials presets window. I'll let you all know how I go with Corel, however note that it might take a few days to hear back from them. Scott

Pendulum, we've been through this road before. Just for your information, take a look at these threads posted earlier this year by this forum;

http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1130090

http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1143021

http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1128913

Well Scott, I applaud you for taking the time and steps to write up and to design a new layout, nobody's gone that far at ALL! And even though I don't know you, I appreciate your efforts thus far... I hope things work out, you've got my vote and my support! On a lighter note, since you're making it for the Apple, perhaps make an X-Box and Playstation 2 and Gamecube version, as well? Or the gameboy Advance? You could call it, "Bryce 6 : Toy Computer Edition"! (grins, sits back to await the Mac community's onslaught!)

One side not, kind of a nit-pick, really, where's the Randomizer going in at? Can't leave THAT useful function out, I KNOW everyone uses it EVERYDAY! (smirks!)

Multi-threading,..........the ability to use 2 processors !!!

Oh yeah,...........I thought Corel sold Bryce to, uhh,...Vector Capital or some such company ? Or maybe it's just the fact I'm a moron and don't read every post on the forum, but am I missing something ?

Yep, you're missing something. It was Corel that was bought by Vector.

the randomiser, you said it.. its use so often, it is being relogated to a menu item smirk Some other bit of information I have not yet released. I have spoken with both Eric, and Edward at U&I software, and here is what they said... essentially.. Edward 1st notes... He says that if there had not been legal issues, U & Q would have worked on furthering Bryce from the personal version that Eric Wenger has, which is somewhat different to versions 3 4 and 5. He also mentions that Eovia tried to buy Bryce once but failed. one interesting quote from edward, and something which was repeated a few times was this quote: "If you have the resources to acquire Bryce from Corel and to manufacture it and support it, please let me know as there would be some possibilities to discuss" I am in the early stages of this such discussion. No, I am not going to spill the details yet.. but I will let you all know what happens definitely. In a second one of my other emails from Edward, he talks about Eric possibly someday ending the Bryce licensing for good, and taking it back and perhaps furthering it himself. He also restates the costs involved if I wanted to buy Bryce, and he again says if I am resourceful, that there would be some serious discussing to do. Eric Wenger tells me that he once was keen to work on Bryce if it was to die. However its the general feeling that he is not so sure any more... as he has technologies and software, which you will all see soon, that he wants to work with. Not a bryce though. Also, mentioned throughout our conversations, is tha fact that they doubt Corel will sell bryce at all. Which is why I am working on my project currently. If you can't beat them, join them. If they won't sell, then give them a reason to bring it back to life. Hope this fills in some of the gaps. Regards Scott

"give them a reason to bring it back to life". Amen, brother. I also doubt they will ever sell Bryce, unless the company does not ever make it into the black and Vector sells all of Corel off. Btw, you probably know, but in case you do not, Renderosity member "Doc Mojo" is Ken Musgrave(I'll assume you know that name). He himself would LOVE to be able to buy Bryce, but I would assume for integration into MojoWorld. (a guess on my part) Always great to hear more tidbits on anything Bryce, thanks! AgentSmith

Hi there everyone. yes I do know Ken Musgrave. Actually, I am about to contact him. Talks with U & I progressed today, and, to be honest, is quote positive. I really wish I could divulge all my information, but I really can't. Lets just say I am having to put my presentation together a LOT earlier than expected. PLEASE HELP.. I NEED THE EMAIL ADDRESS OF CONAN HUNTER!! Can someone please email me with his email address. scott@bryceformac.com will do Regards Scott

Okay. AgentSmith

Bryce as open source?? amen to that ;-) however I think some of the algorythms are still basically licensed to Corel/Vector and wouldn't go O/S

An example to bryce, if nobody wants to take it comercially, for me, will be Blender. It was a 3d comercial aplication, it was going to die, some blender users join and now, blender is a open source and free, for comercial or no comercial, application. www.blender.org , here is the story. If Corel/Vector don't want Bryce, please, don't let it die.

This is all very interesting. Really, I'm rather opposed to the school of thought that says, "Let's bung in 101 new features!" I would much rather see a Bryce 6 that had improvements to its core functionality rather than one that tried to do everything, and had a partial 3D modelling app bolted on as a result. For example, the atmospheric handling in Bryce 5 could be improved considerably, and I see this as a higher priority than putting in a spline modeller or some of the other suggestions above. The interface should be approached with care. As it stands, it is one of the best-designed interfaces I've ever used. I'm not saying it can't be made better, but it should be important not to lose any of the existing strengths.

I think the best, for me , for bryce will be: Water simulation, rivers, oceans, beach,... A good particle system. Wind for trees and grass POSER scene importing, like vue or world builder. With these features bryce will be better. I think use bryce for modelling is a mistake, there is many 3d applications in the 3d world better and very cheap, I see Bryce like a enviroment and final render tool. A application to make outdoor scenes, this feature don't find in many applications, even expensive ones.

I'm all for saving Bryce, but if adding a bunch of new features/Iface is the plan, why not slap a new name on it? I like to see how artist can create something (like Rochr and sbleci) using software which was designed for making landscapes. Sounds to me like you're trying to create software that resembles Bryce, not Bryce itself. Putting a huge price tag on it doesnt sound too appealing either. Just a couple of my thoughts.

D Hood: Sounds to me like a lot of great guys pulling together to make sure Bryce doesn't fade away forever. I'd be in for $300 (if I get plenty of notice) Pendulum: Power to your elbow, Mate! Keep up the good work!

d_hood, I totally hear where you are coming from. At the most basic level, the improvements you seek are the most important ones that will be updated and fixed. The only non Bryce-like feature being proposed is the spline modeler. Everything else is very landscape and environment oriented: - Infinite Planes - Oceans - Planets and Celestial Lab - Horizontal growth on terrains, with a new real time terrain editor - New rendering engine - Smart Water Planes that create ripples when an object intersects, waves - on a shoreline etc - Vegetation Lab with particle system control - Physics Engine with wind that affects trees, vegetation, and any objectc - enabled to be affected by wind If you look at my interface design, there is a LOT of similarities to the current Bryce. All I have done is made most things instantly accessible, like the create/edit/sky tools. More soon Scott

How about some kind of either presets or something by way of time lines. Like say i want a morning scene..(like my vic house pic..remember how much trouble i had with the lighting?????) I thought being able to put in info like time of day, temperature, humidity numbers should be a good feature. and it can calculate what he sky conditions should be like for those settings.... of course this would depend largly on geographic location, as each would be different....but maybe the humidity would affect how much haze was applied..and the temperature, how much clouds and shadows were used... and the time would indicate the position of the sun.... I saw the most awesome sunset one night driving home...and i have been forever unable to duplicate it in bryce...if i could input all those weather settings, would be soooooo much easier...lol side note---ignore me tonight, ideas spout out...am working on some home-made cures for pain again...lol Jen

awsome! I love the idea. What you are really talking about is.. cough .. the earth simulator in Japan. heh. The worlds most powerful suprercomputer! No, I hear what you are saying. You could either set it to alter the current Bryce parameters, but that is still going to be limited. What is really needed is a whole new subsystem for environment lighting and skies. Scott

Lol, yeah, we may have to wait about fifteen years or so before our desktops(quantum processors)have that kind of raw "horsepower"!

(grins!) Aye, I was test-rendering a "simple" chalice I made in Rhino 3D, with TIR and TA on, and only one light, and it dawned on me that with a 3-day render for an 800x600 frame ALONE, that not all of the PC's in the world could ever animate such an artifact. Almost an exaggeration, but there's a reason it's so difficult to make things look photorealistic... My point is that technology grows exponentially, and Bryce 6 should ALSO grow exponentially. Props to pendulum for forwarding exactly this proposal! Honestly, I'm kind of excited now! Even if only half of the proposed features make it into production, we'll still be getting more of an upgrade than we did from 3 to 4, or 4 to 5...!

A few things that seem to be NECESSARY for bryce to remain competitive: - plugin capability for those who would like to expand features - updated file import protocols -16 bit grayscale support (import/export) - more robust global lighting tools (skysettings, light diffusion, scattering, etc) - multiple interface presets to fti a wide vartiety of users ("bryce classic," minimalist (only basic controls are on screen), expert (no tools on screen other than crete tools, everything else is controlled by shortcuts and r-click menus), interface clone (mimics the interface of another program), and custom/new interface, where the user can drag and add-delete features. This seems to be included in every 3D app nowadays, regardless of the niche it caters to. - user-defined keyboard shortcuts - scripting (step based, so you tell it what do do first, then second, then third, etc. Could create a cube made up spheres, other boolean shapes and complex primitives, or lighting rigs without having to load them from presets) - entirely new tree/vegetation lab with emphasis on scene integration/naturalism - some sort of ocean tool with animation capability (sure beats my 8x8 grid of 2048 terrains!!!) Some features that would be cool, but are not completely necessary: - some sort of basic modeling tool other than using lattices. Perhaps a pottery tool? - use proposed sound tools to export cubic/spherical QTVR panoramas with directional sound embedded - HDRI lighting support/manipulation (Scene exposure control!!!) - "After the render" effects like simulated DOF, motion blur, and glow that does not need be calculated during the actualy render,t hus saving huge amounts of time. - true to life volumetric atmospherics - imperfections tool to add various defects to materials without spending a lot of time in the DTE - ability in any objects attributes to turn it to "meta," where anything could become a meta-object -a pipe/tube tool - a gear tool I'd really like to see a new set of tools that is unlike anything I;ve ever seen in terms of being involved with the scene. For example, I want to be able to "paint" the path of the water in the river and define where I want pipes to be and connect them interactively. All the ideas above require no R&D and i personally would know what is involved in implementing them.

Hey Scott, In case you are not aware, Madmax br5 is the developer of the ingenious "Smart Pipe", and the "Zenith" lighting systems that act as plug-ins to Bryce as far as their functionality. He has generously made them available to the Bryce community as a freebie.

Madmax, you seem to be very adept at feature design. In fact I love many of your designs. I am taking record of all of your ideas, and I will be adding what i can to my designs. After that, I will have a discussion with you as to how we could implement some of your other features. You will have to excuse my lack of communication today, as I have been out of the office, and now it is 4AM and we have someone in the family up ill, so we are looking after them. I am also away for the weekend, so I will be back by US time Sunday at some stage. With regards to updates. I have had some conversation with people at Corel today. This includes someone who was working with Bryce 6 before it was canned. I'll provide details once my permissions are more clear on what I can and can't publically announce. But the main thing is that we have the support and interest of those at Corel still interested in Bryce! Scott

And let's not forget 'FRED' !!

I readin a magazine that the PC version of Bryce goes on normally, the mac version is the one isn't going on, a person from Corel said that there wasn't enough mac users who uses Bryce. Great for Pc user Worng for mac user.

adh3d yes that was the original news, but since then, Corel has canned the PC version. The reason they dropped the PC price was to clear shelf stock. They have no plans for working on a new Bryce... mac or PC. Scott

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But Corel didn't know what the hell to DO with bryce. Look at the image on the B5 box for instance! Most of us could have done better than that! The code is now very old and needs rewriting from the ground up, which is what Mo Musgrave was doing when they sacked him and everybody else at Metacreations. Scott, I support what you are doing and wish you all the luck in the world, but get Bryce out of Corel's hands! I agree with Dan Whiteside, get Brian Wagner involved. If anybody needs input about the DTE or somebody to do some cool presets you know where i am ;-) I do wonder whether the petition etc might not have been counter productive, i mean, if you want to get Bryce cheap and get it into the hands of those who know it and care about it you don't tell Corel how great it is and how loyal a community there is etc do you? Oh well, it does sound like you've stirred up a lot of interest and discussion Scott, well done ;-)

AAARGGH! geez for the past month i have been toiling day in and day out learning the the basics of 3dmax and I get this? bryce 6? noooooo! ehehehe actually im a big fan... on terrain design and grphics... this would be the best there is (it is still even on ver 5) especially with all that thingees! and updates! WWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWO that would even work greater if it could be incorporated in max thnx scott! eyecon

Eyecon: My son has been learning Max all this year. It's a nightmare! LOL But he ploughs through it like I plough through Bryce....he's doing anims and stuff I couldn't even begin to contemplate, that's if I could figure out how to use Max in the 1st place! Good luck. I've given up even thinking about using Max.

we'll see. I do hope that Bryce is bought out by someone who is interested in it. I'm very disappointed at what corel has done.

Aye, everyone has their own favorites, I've been learning Lightwave for a while with little or no success. I've never rendered ONE single image worth posting, or modeled ANYTHING worth showing anyone in it... In contrast, I've made thousands of objects in Rhino, and use Bryce to render them all. I think adding modeling tools in Bryce would be silly and counter-productive, because other modelers do such a great job as they are. But better to have too MANY features than too few, for certain! I'd just like to see more nature-based features, such as the river-painting and stuff... And like MadMax was talking about, most of the features he described really wouldn't be too difficult to implement. This is and has been a great thread, a break from wishlisting and more of a focus on the reality of Bryce 6-dom...

It's been a while since he was looking but I see the price may have dropped in the meantime... just an opinion from the peanut gallary, but thinking you might talk to Doc too

I for one cant understand why anyone would even suggest that there should be a limit on what features should appear in a possible new version of Bryce. if you like C4D, then use C4D. If you like Maya, then use Maya. But dont suggest that us Bryce lovers should not have the rights to certain features because the program began as an easy way to make terrains. No one is suggesting that we take out the terrain features. I for one think this whole idea of Bryce 6 is fantastic and I think the proposal should have as many ideas and new features as possible so that if the final version couldnt include all of them, at least we would have a better chance of getting as many new features as possible. I would pay a marked up price for this product.

I agree that bryce should have as many new features as possible, I would like to be able to import a poser animation to bryce and make it work somehow, it could even be done with morphing animation. I am sure that there could be many other improvements too. If anyone didn`t like any of the new features, all they would have to do would be to not use them.

Yeah, I believe the fear some have is that a VERY feature rich Bryce 6 would cost them say, $1,000+. I beleieve anyone who would be able to develop Bryce 6 would be smart enough to understand that a desirable part of Bryce has usually been the price tag. If there were SO may new features to a Bryce 6 as to drive up the price past $500, there would be a serious need for some of those higher features to be sold as modules. (which I would like to see anyway, no matter how little or much a new Bryce would cost) Add-on modules like; *(really) high-end rendering options(SSS, etc) *traditional 3d modeler (nurbs, sub-d, etc) *uv painter AgentSmith