All Renderosity Members, I wanted to take a minute to give you a summary of recent events on the site from EdgeNet's perspective. 1. Effective, Sept 16, the admin privileges for Jack and Ed were removed. As a direct result of their statements and actions, they were no longer able to fulfill their obligations under their operating agreement with EdgeNet. This is unfortunate because in our opinion, they did a good job managing the site and growing membership. More details on the reasons behind this in a minute, but first, a few pieces of information. 2. It was originally our intent to work with any admins that wanted to stay on so we left all other Moderator's in place. The number of deleted posts, including my own to the members and moderators proved that this plan was not workable, so early today, all Moderator status was eliminated. It is EdgeNet's intent that NOBODY will be banned from the community because of the current disagreement. We would prefer a public discussion of the issues. No EdgeNet staff will ever delete a post unless it violates the community's stated posting policy. In the interim, we will continue to run the site in this mode. 3. New approach: We believe that having a team of admins that manage the site on an ongoing basis will be better for the community than past arrangements. We would like for this team to be democratically elected by the community members to represent their interests instead of having a single person manage. We believe this will lead to long term stability and a focus on serving the needs of community members. Elected leaders will have moderator type privileges in the community. If you are interested in participating in this process, send me your contact info to tchoate@edgenet.com. We want to make it clear that we have no preconceptions as to who this team might include (possibly even Jack, Ed, or PFO members). EdgeNet will work with the community to achieve these goals over the coming days. 4. There have been several points related to the Renderosity Store that we wanted to address. EdgeNet will be assuming day-to-day responsiblity for the store as of yesterday. EdgeNet has always collected the money & forwarded it to Jack for distribution. Technically, we will have to continue that process thru yesterday. After that date, it will be EdgeNet's responsibility to distribute the money to artists and handle new product posting. We will be contacting all artists that have pieces in the Store soon to gather the necessary contact info. There will be NO change to the terms for artists. I will be your contact for now. Feel free to email me any further questions (tchoate@edgenet.com). 5. Lastly, we would like to address Jack's account of the Zygote deal. EdgeNet has operated this site at a loss for the last 1.5 years. In the last few months the Online Store has begun to produce some revenues. 50% of these revenues went to support the artists and 70% of the remainder went to DSI with EdgeNet receiving 30% of the remainder. EdgeNet worked with Zygote to structure a deal under which EdgeNet would receive a fair purchase price and Jack would receive annual payments that would exceed EdgeNet's amount considerably plus incentives. In the end, Jack wanted more and EdgeNet and Zygote were unable to complete the transaction. EdgeNet had no choice but to continue operating the site in conjunction with DSI under the operating agreement until it expired on Nov. 4. Our preparation for handling the site after that date lead Jack to make public statements that compromised his ability to effectively manage the site on EdgeNet's behalf. Again, we think Jack and his team have done a good job with the community and the supportive remarks we see from members confirm this view. We regret the confusion this situation may have caused for members. We look forward to building a strong management team and working with each of you to create an all inclusive environment for the 3D Graphics community. Regards, Tim Choate

`

I find it very rude Tim that you removed all the moderators status without so much as even a email. And quite honestly your side of the story sounds like complete crap to me. I wish you guys good luck as another artist community is always a good thing for the artists, but my support is going with Jack and Ed. Chris

I would like to hear Zygote's side of this. I'm sure they may be a little shy to make any statements as of yet, but I think it would answer alot of questions.

One more thing...I find it very conveinant for Edgenet to all the sudden just get rid of the %70 percent DSI when they are the ones that have put all the time into getting this going and just when it is starting to make money , they get screwed. Very very uncool.

ARADTech - I hear you on the moderator status. I'm curious how you would handle the disappearing message problem when it has to be one of the moderators doing it. I'm all for restoring moderator status if we can avoid this problem going forward. Tim

Your system must have somekinda tracking for who deletes what or somekinda time stamping thing. If not you should be building it in as this problem has been around for a long time and has always been a issue. Chris

tim, Care to respond to the accusations that EdgeNet will sell the database emails?

We don't have it currently. It just deletes the database records. Sounds like it is something we should consider. Censorship of any kind is very uncool, but if I'm going to be blamed for it regardless, I'd prefer to be the only one able to do it.

Omen - EdgeNet has never sold the email list to anyone despite plenty of opportunities. We will not as long as we manage the site. Tim

Does the MySql server not have a record of what ip deleted the message or a log of anytype at all? I agree that if you are gonna be blamed for something you should at least be the one to do it. I really cannot imagine anyone on the Rendo moderators would remove messages that relate to this situation.

Tim, You are not quite answering the question that concerns everyone. There appears to be some dispute about the ownership of the email list abd that your positiom is that the list would be sold with the Renderosity site and URL (www.renderosity.com". Is this true, if not how do you respond? Mike W

I guess I am going to thank you tim. I really appreciate being kicked off as moderator here. Because I do not want to be involved with a company who's ethics are as bad as Edgenets. I actually hope that this place dies out.. Since You cannot be trusted to serve the community at all

Mike - Unfortunately, I didn't have the foresight to address this issue specifically in DSI's operating agreement. It was never my intention that Jack would own the list of members who joined in his tenure. It's my position that the software and the member data constitute a media business that serves the community. Like any business it may change hands over time. If EdgeNet benefits from it's 1.5 years of investment and support, that seems appropriate to me. I'm interested in other points of view. Tim

Mr. Tim, Jack and the gang wrote nine pages of information addressing many points along the way. Your response is a couple of paragraphs of fluffy smoke directed at our bottoms. If you truly wish to respond properly, you must address all of the points that they have brought up. You might not feel like you have anything to prove, but if you want a website with actual members, you've got a LOT to prove. This place will be a ghost town when Jack and Ed get set up again somewhere else. One more thing: "Elected" community members???????????? Good lord man, have you seen the behaviour of people here whenever a political issue has arisen? There are people like me here, for crying out loud. -Darth_Logice

Tim, Please understand, no disrespect but a point that you left out, what you term "value" seems to be different from mine and Ed's are. I will not get into the politics of "money issues" percentages or "take home pay". I think, however, there has been plenty of "value" influxing into Edgenet's pocket since Ed and I took over the "administration" of this website that you made, not in monies made ON this site, but monies made FROM this site and it's Community, that you left out in your statement. Please allow me to state my thoughts on this... Your first and primary goal with Renderosity has been making sure that Renderosity be the show piece of your forum software. As Ed and I built up the membership of this site through our hard work and devotion to this Community, you have been Presenting this Community as the "SHOW PIECE" for your company's software and the developement of it. A member base of 28,000 + members acting as a family, mine and Ed's dedication, AS WELL AS, the dedication of the other Moderators and Admins, have made it possible for your company to garner monies for the sales of that software to other companies looking to have the same level of Community and usage from the EaseForum software, from the reputation that Renderosity presents. Renderosity may have been opperating at a loss for your company, HOWEVER, the sales of your software to other companies and individuals, base upon the membership of this site and Community, have subsidized that loss and turned it into a HUGE profit engine for your company. In other words, you were profiting from Renderosity in other ways, as a Company, than just the monies brought into this site from the Community or Online store... a profit that the Community never saw, nor Ed and I or any of the other workers here. I think that it is only fair that this "Value" was also mentioned, that you possibly overlooked. Jack

PS: I will wait until Zygote posts their "views" before commenting further on the other issues. Jack

I was quite surprised this morning to come on and see that I had lost my moderator status. At least I get some sort of explanation, unsatisfying as it may be. I, for one, am definitely following Jack and Ed. And if you have noticed, there are quite a large number of people in the Poser forum removing their images and freestuff. Without some sort of support for your claims, chances are that very few of the members here will believe you. Jon

Jack & Ed never supported me in any way and so I choose NOT to support them. They don't deserve it. That's my position (if anyone cares). -Jeff H. PoserTECH

Odd....My First Attempt To Post This Is Not Showing...So We Shall Try Again. Smile Snipped And Edited But Content Not Changed. I'm Honest, Unlike Some....Smirk "I wanted to take a minute to give you a summary of recent events" Yes, Summary....Very Explainatory Isn't It? Your Thorough Attention To This Matter Is "Astounding". Sarcasm Implied "1. Effective, Sept 16, the admin privileges for Jack and Ed were removed. As a direct result of their statements and actions, they were no longer able to fulfill their obligations under their operating agreement with EdgeNet." What You REALLY Mean Is They Saw They Were Getting Screwed, Got Pissed (Who Wouldn't), And Let Everyone Of Us Know They Were Getting Screwed, And So To Further Attempt To Gain Control Of The Situation You Usurped The "Throne". "2. It was originally our intent to work with any admins that wanted to stay on so we left all other Moderator's in place. The number of deleted posts, including my own to the members and moderators proved that this plan was not workable, so early today, all Moderator status was eliminated." What You REALLY Mean Is As Long As They Played the Puppet To You They Could Stay. Is It Really So Surprising that They Would Support Jack And Ed? Not Likely. More Likely You Knew They Would And In An Attempt To Nip Them In The Bud, Strategically Cut them Off As Well. Good Strategy, Bad Move. Really, Why Would Anyone that Supported Ed ANd Jack Delete Posts? Makes No Sense. We Aren't All Born Suckers You Know. But Feel Free To Keep Treating Us Like We Are, Until We Are Gone That Is. "It is EdgeNet's intent that NOBODY will be banned from the community because of the current disagreement. We would prefer a public discussion of the issues. No EdgeNet staff will ever delete a post unless it violates the community's stated posting policy. In the interim, we will continue to run the site in this mode." That Sounds Good And All....But Then You Make This Statement... "Censorship of any kind is very uncool, but if I'm going to be blamed for it regardless, I'd prefer to be the only one able to do it. " Little Contradictory There Aintcha Tim? My My My, What Should We Think? Cencorship Is Bad, But If It's Going To Be Done You Want To Be The One Doing It. How...Fascist Of You Tim. By The Way, No Tracking System On Who Is Deleting Posts? Is Your Software Or Programming Ability THAT Poor? Give us a Break. Who Would Create Something This Huge, Allow Others To Run It, And Have No Accountability System? That's Idiotic. More Like You Attempt An Excuse For "Cencoring" Things You Got Busted For. As Was Mentioned Also, This "Dissapearing Posts" Problem Has Been Around a While And You Just Now Say..... "We don't have it currently. It just deletes the database records. Sounds like it is something we should consider." Pardon Me For Laughing My Proverbial Ass Off, But That Is Just Classic Tim...Really...I'm Dying Here. "3. New approach: We believe that having a team of admins that manage the site on an ongoing basis will be better for the community than past arrangements." Again, What You REALLY Mean Is That You Want Puppets. I Got Two Words For You....No Eloquence Or Banter...Just In Your Face Brutal Honesty. Screw You "We believe this will lead to long term stability and a focus on serving the needs of community members." Long Term Stability To You Is Swapping Out Every Year. I Think Your Definition Of "Stability" Is Somewhat Askew. And Serving the Community Needs? PLEASE?!?! If You Were So Concerned With This Community's "Needs" You Would Not Be Doing This....TWICE! To Quote My Granfather "Screw Me Once, Shame On You. Screw Me Twice, Shame On Me. "EdgeNet will work with the community to achieve these goals over the coming days." Just Like You "Worked" With Jack, Ed, Zygote, Curious Labs, And Us In Recent Days? Um, I Speak For Many I'm Pretty Sure, No Thanks. "4. I will be your contact for now. Feel free to email me any further questions (tchoate@edgenet.com)." Well, THAT Is Professional And Just Dripping With Concern. Make Them Come To You? Don't You Think You Could Spare Some Time (Apparently Not In Light Of This Half Assed "Summary")To Get WITH The Members Of The Store And Inform Them Instead Of Having them Come To You? Talk About Poor Management. I'll Be Amazed If You Have Anything To Sell. "5. Lastly, we would like to address Jack's account of the Zygote deal. EdgeNet has operated this site at a loss for the last 1.5 years. In the last few months the Online Store has begun to produce some revenues. 50% of these revenues went to support the artists and 70% of the remainder went to DSI with EdgeNet receiving 30% of the remainder." As Was Stated By Jack, You Surely Made Profit Off The Software And Such In Other Areas. With The Way This Site Has Grown There is No Way You Could NOT Be Making a Profit And Still Remain In Business. Poor Attempt To Generate Sympathy, And I'm Sure Most See That. By The Way, Did You Take Math? 50% + 70% + 30% = 150%...Now That's Just Odd. Snicker Okay, Maybe You Meant 50% Went To Artists (Too Little IMHO) And 70% Of The REMAINING 50% Went To DSI, But Wait, That Still Leaves 30% That You Got. That's 100% Of The Remaining 50% Effectively Going To You, Because The DSI Is Yours, If I Am Not Mistaken, And So Is The Other 30%. Ergo, Not Only Did You Give The Meager 50% Of The ARTISTS Own Profits Back To Them, But You Kept 50% Of That For Yourself. What Kinda Screwed Up Business Deal Is THAT? I Again Point Out, The ARTISTS And The Rest Of Us Made This Place. And You Give Them 50% In Return? If I was Ever Lucky To Sell My Stuff I Am Quite Sure, As The Artist, I Would Get More Than 50% For My Efforts. Let's Not Forget That 50% You Made, 70% Which Went To The DSI, Was Also Additional Profit To What You Made Selling The DSI Elsewhere. Hot Damn. No Profit? You Guys Are Making a Proverbial Killing Off The Artists Here. But Then We're Just Stupid Artists, We're Used To Getting Screwed Over, Right? "Our preparation for handling the site after that date lead Jack to make public statements that compromised his ability to effectively manage the site on EdgeNet's behalf." Well Duh? Hell If I Got Treated The Way You Treated Them I'd Be Pissed Too. Obviously Freedom Of Opinion And Speach Didn't Figure Into Things For You Since You "Decided" To Cencor Him (Unkool, As You Claim) By Removing Him And Ed Without Some Sort Of Attempt To Resolve The Reason They Were Upset. i.e. Your Poor Tact, Greed, Et. all. Ad Nauseum. "Again, we think Jack and his team have done a good job with the community and the supportive remarks we see from members confirm this view." Funny, We Think They Did Good Too. That's Why We Are Following Them. Loyalty And Appreciation Mean Something To Some People And With Your Treatment Of WIllow And Now Jack, Ed, And All Of Us, You Show That Those Concepts Are Foreign To You. In Closing, Not Bad For a "Silent" Little Artist Like Me Huh? Weird, When I Would "Go Off" On Instigators In The NG's My Letters Were Somewhat Renowned For Being Rather Sharp And Precise. I Can Only Say That I Do Not Speak Out This Much Often Or To This Extent, But You Can Bet Your Toosh You Deserve It. "Regards, Tim Choate" "Sincerely" May Have Held a Little More Weight Or Credence, But I Doubt It.

What's this all about anyway? Renderosity? What's that... I never heard of it before.... Gotta go wash my hands now...seeya Tim. Sincere regards, Mike

Wow Luna...good show there...you are great at making things seen clearly. Bravo

Guys: This is a matter of business, don't be in the middle. One side is Edgenet and the other side is Jack no less not more, please let the parts to solve their issues. Any opinions will not be listened. It is like a ping pong game and the table not allow more than 2 players. I suggest you to just watch the match.

Err.......Virus.....Like.....Didn't You Kinda Jump Into It Above In Another Post? And Now You Say To Stay Out Of It? Please Do make Up Your Mind....Minds....Take aoms Prozac...whatever...But Come On. Stick To One Please.

Err.......Virus.....Like.....Didn't You Kinda Jump Into It Above In Another Post? And Now You Say To Stay Out Of It? Please Do make Up Your Mind....Minds....Take Some Prozac...whatever...But Come On. Stick To One Please.

Wait. Don't tell me. Luna is short for Lunatic? Here's a link to the mindless worshipers forum: http://www.poserforum.org Hurry up and join. They are eager for weak new minds to wash. Take a nice long bath over there ;-) ScottA Geeze I crack myself up sometimes :-)

Oh great... I am gone for one week everything changes... OK... Jack is history, Ed is history, Virus is screaming out all his old hatred because of what happened to Willow and the PFO and Edgenet is looking for "Interrim Moderators"... Just great... That's a way to begin a new week... Oh, of course, before I forget: All the moderators lost their status... All this leaves me with just one question: Who was the heart of this community? To me it was Jack and Ed. They kept it running. They answered my questions. The gave help where it was needed. Oh, and there is Zygote. Somehow Zygote always seemed to be a part of this community to me. But Edgenet was never a part of this community to me. Sure, they provided the software and the servers, but they did so for a reason: Renderosity is one of the largest and most active communities of the Internet - a pretty good way to promote their software. So, why should I stick with a community, that is run by Edgenet? I could not find a reason for that... It is "Good bye" to this community for me. If only my english was any better, I could express, what I wanted to say, but I do lack a lot of vocabulary to do that. But I will follow Jack and Ed to a new community - hopefully to one that is closely connected to Zygote without forcing them to pay 100.000 $... Bye for now, Joerg

Oh Scott....Such Sweet Nothings You Speak To me. Could You Muster a Contribution To The Issues Or Is Your Only Intent To Attack me? Surely You Have Better Things To Do? And You Call me A Lunatic? Mindless Follower? I Believe My Words And Ability To Form Actual Comments Instead Of Poorly Placed Attacks Show That I Am Hardly "Mindless". Rather I Suggest You Look To Yourself Who Doesn't Seem To Have Much Thought On This Subject Other Than To Put Me Down. Then Again, Maybe That Is All You Are Capable Of Eh? Tis a sad Thing, But It's Your Life. Live It Brother, Even If Not To It's Fullest. Smile Be Well.

Are you typing to music? ;-) I'm in a trouble making mood today. No Harm intended. The problem is. Lots of folks here jumped ship when Willow left. They all said exactly the same things you did. Then they slowly crept back in here as if they never said anything. And thought nobody would notice. And started bashing Willow. Well........................ I noticed. ScottA

sigh

Well...You Seem To Have Me Backwards...See...I Wasn't Around when Willow Got Screwed Over All that much, Nor Was I Active In The Community. Had that Been The Case I May Well Have Gone with Her. Thing Is, I Know Some Of The Moderators, And Fellow Artists Here. I Believe In The COmmunity, Not Edgenet. You can Rest Assure As Soon As They Kill My Data From This Site As Requested I Will Not Be Back. Hell If I Have To Go Back To The Poser NG Then I Will. But I Will Not Give Patronage To This Site. I'm Not The Person You Think I Am, so Perhaps We Can Drop This Then? Thanks.

Just a final thought: Let me express this with a graphical example. Supose that you are customer of a good Restaurant, you visited because you like the food, the service etc. Would you stop visit it becuase they fired the waiter? I think the best part of a restaurant is the food and the place, not the stewards. So if the owner of the restaurant is having problem with the waiter, don't tell me that you* would like to interfere with that?. If you* do, well there is something wrong with you*. .- Used in lato sensu* way (not pointed to anyone) :) **.- generic sense

But EdgeNet only provided the housing for our restaurant - and Jack and Ed did the cooking. And to me, the chef is most important. Well, what would you, Virus, expect us to do? Stick with the house and see the cooks leave us? Joerg

HAHAHHAHAHA The cook is who made the Forums program, sheez I have to explain everything???? The cook will remains because Edgenet is the owner of the forum program, so what this community really lost? Everything will remains as the history of this matter taught us. Well after this, I don't see the point to waste my time reading this kind of messages, everything will come as it was in few time.

Here's Another Analogy For You Since Yours is a Bit Inacurate Virus, Though I Am Not Surprised. They Did Not Fire The Waiter...They Fired The Managers And ALL The Waiters. HUGE Difference. And In That Case, Hell Yes I Would Stop Going To The Restaraunt. Let me Put This In Perspective If I may. Suppose I Uploaded My Images To AOL And Then They Decided To Take My Site, And My Images, And Use Them For Themselves After Canning Me. Would That be Right? Hell No. They Are MY Images, My Webpage. All AOL Did Was Supply The Service And the Program That Runs Said Service. I Paid For The Account, I Did The Work, I Made Everything On THe Site. Hopefully You Can See That Little Example THere And What Artist Among Us Has Not Complained About Being Ripped Off For Our Work? NOW....If You Will.....Apply The Same To Edgenet. Why? Becuase It's The SAME DAMN THING! They Provided The Webspace, They Provided The Program To Run It, But WE The Artists, Including Jack And Ed And The Moderators, MADE THe THings Here Aside From The Program And The Space And It's OURS. Yet THEY Want To Kick Everyone Out And Now Use It As Their Own. It's WRONG! Plain And Simple. Ethically, Morally, Tastefully, And Most Likely Legally Wrong. I Cannot Claim TO Be Sure On The Last, However, The Stuff Here Is Ours. Not Theirs. Yet Everyone Is Going Around Saying It's All Theirs. That Just Is NOT TRUE. The Space, The Program. That Is Theirs. The Rest Is ALL Ours. Please.....THink About It. Thanks

Virus, I have to say that the analogy is slightly off there :) I would liken this to more of a restaurant that hired a chef whose excellent food brought more and more people into the place... expanding its business... If the restaraunt had problems with the chef and fired him, wouldnt you expect that the people would then start heading to where the man was next cooking? Jack is much more than a steward to this forum..... The owner,edgenet in this case, has no community ties.. doesnt care who runs the place, as long as they keep it running.. Since i WAS around for the last breakup, and involved with it, I am surprised and sorry that once again edgenet is depriving the community of their leaders.. Darrin

'cuse me, but we weren't waiters, we were the cooks... and made this into a 4 star restraunt with the help of the other moderators and admins... once you get rid of the cooks, the value of that restraunt goes down, expecially if you bring in a crew from McDonalds to be the cooks for the place. Jack PS: I am not pointing fingers at anyone or trying to say the the new moderaters WILL be McDonald's cooks, hopefully they will either be as good as or better than the old moderators and Admins.

Well. I have no clue who you are. I never said you were evil or anything ;-). Just a bit hasty in burning bridges. I wish you luck in your future ventures. Burning bridges is a dangerous way to live. I hope you don't regret it in the future. I may join you on the NG. But I need to find out the FACTS here first before I say something as drastic as "I'm never coming back here". Peace and Good luck, ScottA

Well said Jack :)

Scott....Speaking Of Burning Bridges....Exactly What Would You say That Edgenet Did To Willow Before And Now Jack, Ed, And The Moderators? I Pretty Much Call That Burning Bridges. Jack...I Disagree...You Were Not The Cooks. If Anything Edgenet Was The Owner And You And The Moderators Where The Managers, Cooks, And Waiters. EdgeNet Claims To Care About The Community, When In Fact, They Are Like Most Other Bosses. They Sit Around, Let Others Do The Work, And Then Try To Take All The Credit. Poor Tactics. But Don't Liken Yourselves To Cooks...Though Creative Like a Cook, You Did More Than That...And Any Good Manager Knows How To Cook, But The Manager Keeps the Place Going, And that You Did.

Yeah right Jack

It's truly amazing the way such a thing can put those who have no real stakes in the issue against each other ( maybe you do, but I don't know). Jack continuously speaks in terms of "community". I sincerely doubt that he wants to see the members of the community rallying against EACH OTHER, as a way to let out the angst this whole situation has created. Oh well... just my 2 cents' worth... I can't help but feel that this whole situation is gonna end up being some sort of virtual civil war. yes, Wizzard, I agree: sigh Cheers, Mike PS By the way, y'all were making me hungry with all this talk about restaurants and cooks and all...thanks , Jack, for bringing up Mc Donald's...that really killed the ol' hunger urge!

i'm with ya justmike. "oh yeah, says you, bite me screw you. you suck, no you do" what the fuck is up with that? our time here at renderosity is over. we will move on. the community should see this as a change and nothing more. life is full of them. we move on. some will stay. some will go. no one will agree whole heartedly across the board. instead of warring against one another, we should be coming together and moving on. to those who stay, take care and good luck. to those who move on, welcome to the journey. to everyone else, grab your popcorn, get a good seat, enjoy the show, or better yet, go do some art, visit a friend, or a site you haven't had the chance to recently but wish to. or better still... go hug your kids, go see a movie, or just step outside and look up at the sky and breathe. ed

Wow. One of my posts has been deleted. Real mature there. I agree with Luna. It's moot, though: won't change the minds of those who decide to use this issue to yell about their own issues. I've seen it on one of my own threads, it's happening again here. So I'll do it. :D And you know what? So what if some people stay. So what if they make a new community. People will go where the quality is. If the new incarnation of Renderosity will be better than this one, then shame on us. If it's not, they'll come to the new site. Or they'll do what most people do now- come here and go to PFO. I realise this may annoy some people, and I'd prefer that Edgenet had remained ethical, but some people will stick by them, and some people will leave. I'll leave, myself. At least, out of this, some peace has been made between two communities, since both have been shafted now. If it serves to defuse the animosity there, then maybe the community will benefit more from that than anything else. In closing, I think that a community reflects its leadership. If the people in charge here are hypocritical greedy suits, this place will reflect it, and the artists who come here will have recieved a lesson in where not to go.

I take one week off and all this? I do not understand what happened. Could someone please explaine it to me?

Well said Luna... Ditto... Well said to you to Darth. Both of you spoke your peices so eloquently that I'm not even going to try to add anything... except to add my agreement to your statements. Kudos. Very well done. I kinda hope you guys do hold mod and admin elections from the community at large. Now That'll be a show to put this years mediocre political elections to shame. I gots my popcorn & beer, fire up the election bots and let the circus begin...

All I am saying is that I liked what Jack said: "I am not pointing fingers at anyone or trying to say that the new moderaters WILL be McDonald's cooks, hopefully they will either be as good as or better than the old moderators and Admins." Why don't you give Tim a chance? Yeah he pissed us all off by kicking the Moderators and Admins out and taking over Renderosity, but maybe the new Moderators and Admins will be as good as or even better than the old ones...and that's all I care about. It's time to move on guys...live with it! Tim is already here and there is nothing you can do about it. The more and more crap you give him, the worse the community will be at the end. This is the best damn graphic artist community I've seen so I am staying right here until I find a better community.

"Truth is a hollow echo drowned in the roar of anger; flushing both into an abyss of confusion and despair." What is more important, finding someone to blame or finding some way to find a solution? I haven't posted any images, although I have made comments. I have enjoyed both the artwork and the sense of community in the reviews. I have always been able to respect the talent - or at least the effort, but now... ...now, I see very warm and creative and intelligent and witty people lash out at one another poisoning any possible strands of kinship. Does this help Jack and Ed? Does this hurt EdgeNet? Or does it serve little purpose other than to offend, exasperate and belittle? This is how a community becomes a parody. I think compassion and compromise are needed more than what I see being played out before me. In this way we all lose - regardless of who goes where. It seems a shame that so many who see themselves as builders of the community are so ready to tear it all down rather than continue to search for a better way. You comment because you care, so maybe a little more understanding and a little less anger will build bonds rather than break them. Call me naive if you want, but where there is a will, there can be found a way. My thoughts anyway...

here's my 2 cents (if anyone cares) Yeah... it sucks that Jack and Ed are leaving... they were great guys. What I don't get is why people are getting all riled up and pledging their undying loyalty to this or that. If Jack and Ed start up a new site of course I'll visit and glean all the knowledge I can from them. But I will also continue to come here and download stuff/ask questions. It really doesn't matter to me WHO runs this site, as long as I can get what I need. I'm not here for politics and to make friends... I'm here for information... which this site provides very nicely. If this site does not provide me with what I need, then I'll go somewhere else. This is the INTERNET people... not politics. Why should you have to choose one or the other, when you can have both? Kristyn and Luna... PLEASE don't capitalize the first letter of all your words. It's kind of annyoning... and makes your posts hard to read.

Tim, Thanks for posting your point of view. I don't fully agree with it, but at least it shows that you are concerned about this site. I'm sure that this will go unheeded, but I wish that people would state their views without the petty name calling and sniping. All it does is make you look like an idiot. (This applies to certain members on both sides of the debate.) Edgenet is a business and needs to make money to stay in business. Although what they display is our artwork, they pay for the server space and bandwidth for us to display our work. Should a printing company be expected to print an artist's work for free? This site is good publicity for Edgenet to sell their software, showcasing its abilities with thousands of software testers working for free. The content of the site, as well as the membership, does not belong to Edgenet, and selling it (or using the content and membership to up the selling price) seems unethical. Immediately banning webmasters due to potential conflicts of interest is a standard business procedure. Disgruntled people sometimes savage company web sites as a way to get back at a company before they go. In IT, an employee who gives 2 weeks notice may find themselves immediately walked out the door because management is afraid of what they might do in the meantime, especially if they are going to work for a competitor. Jack and Ed have always behaved honorably and their actions as moderators have greatly increased the number of contributors to this site. Their inclusive nature brought back some people who initially quit the forum. Ed's post above shows class through this Jerry Springer flare up. The abrupt cut-off seems rude considering their outstanding efforts. Keep an open mind. Wait and see what happens. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face, or anyone else's nose, for that matter.

This is just a hobby for me and I'm a newby to this site and the community in general. I have never contributed anything though. Instead I am one of the many people who are drawn to this site by the talented contributors that appear here. I check out Renderosity everyday. I look at new items on the online store ( I'm all about medieval settings and got my eye on a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff! ;-D ). Then I go and DL any of the new free stuff that looks interesting. I can't express how great I think it is that these talented contributors share their work, it's terrific. My point is, if Edgenet upsets the contributors then people like me who generate hits and revenue have no reason to show up. If it is all about money for Edgenet as some assert then they should recognize when they are doing themselves more damage than good from being greedy. On the other hand if Edgenet wants to perpetuate the communal atmosphere that has been grown and developed over time by many devoted people then they better listen carefully to the people (primarily the contributors) who comprise the community. Without them you have just another forum. There are lots of sites out there with a few models and some textures and you know what, I don't get around to visiting them very often..... BTW. Very level headed and pertinent comments by Nightshade and Crescent. If Jack and Ed come up with a better solution, I will visit there. In the same respect if Edgenet continues to give me a reason to show then I will. Let the chips fall where they may.