someone out here that is usualy very nice to everyone has given a comment to a friend that just crushed them,i dont know if it was something to do with language barrier or what(i dont think so) ,but i dont think i will comment on this persons art anymore as they have hurt a good friend...be careful what you say in comments,this is an open forum when you comment and constructive critisism should be done with an IM or an E mail.artists are very sensative and these images that we post are special as we create them..and this is very personal.

If you open up comments you open yourself up to "constructive criticism". If that's what the comment was then there is no right to complain about the person. If the comment was along the lines of 'you suck', then that's mean and not called for. Constructive criticism, I'm afraid, your friend will have to get used to if they plan to display their work in public.

the story is like this artist #1 gave artist #2 a new character they had made,, artist #2 posted an image of this gift and dedicated it to artist #1 and thanked them for the wonderful gift,,then artist#1 commented on this dedication and told #2 that it was pretty bad and needed lots of work ,lacking one thing or another..i had never seen #1 say anything negative to anyone before that..and there was much worse stuff done to the character by other artists but those all got praise...and the things that were complained about werent bad..at all. i know when you place your art here you are naked to the world..but this was unexpected hurt from a(so called) friend..i think it uncalled for.that is all.

Well, hard to say. It sounds like artist #1 could be trying to be constructive. In all honesty, just because several people use the same character it doesn't mean they will all get the same results from it.
If artist #1 is usually complimentary, it's hard to believe they'd be deliberately mean.
It's hard enough to leave constructive criticism, I remember one image I looked at that had a lot of the usual back-patting but what I saw was a pixalated texture that could have been improved upon. No one else would say it and the person thanked me for the comment and asked for suggestions.

If your friend want's constructive comments consider posting the link and asking for opinions.

Also, if you post a link here..your friend needs to be prepared, and not wear their hearts on their sleeve per say..some ppl make constructive criticism with less senstivity than others... ;)

It's probably best to disable comments in her case. For neophytes, any comments other than "What a beautiful image!" will usually do more harm than good to sensitive egos. Tell her not to be discouraged, and that a good sense of humor and ordinary humility will help anyone cope.

thank you for this input,i do think you are correct and people need to be a little more understanding,cuz as i stand back and look at this all again..when you post something here you are open to mr.grumpypants or whoever is out there looking..you can only hope they will be kind..if not,"you cant please all the people ,all of the time"..

I just love negative comments on my art.

Ever consider that Mr.Grumpypants might just be telling you (or your friend) the ugly truth... the amount of crap that gets glowing appraisal from all of the sycophants who visit Renderosity is unbelievable. The word AWESOME is the most abused on this website!!!

i find a feeling of community here.. and think you should at least be nice to your friends and incourage them.or be courtious and say nothing..there is no reason to be negative.and i dont see anyones art as being crap..people are all at different levels..

".. and think you should at least be nice to your friends and incourage them.or be courtious and say nothing.."

I disagree with that there. This is more than a community, it's a place to learn. If one doesn't want comments on how they could improve on something then they should either not post here or disable comments.
This site has beginners just starting out, vetrans who do this for a living and everyone in between.
It doesn't encourage someone to simple post an "Excellent!" and let them continue to make mistakes they could be working on.

you are correct too,i even disagree with myself here,not pointing out something that detracts from the art is wrong but there is a correct way to do things and this was handled badly..

I agree kendra. Excepting the great help I get at two other absolutely awesome sites, and from friends like jumpstart, If not for the occasional troll or two I,ve gotten in my gallery, I would'nt know a damn thing today about poser 4. LOL

I've been trying to think of how to phrase this since I first saw this post a couple days ago. Basically, "sensitive artists" who can't learn to handle or deal with negative comments on their work never survive art school. You think random trolls at Renderosity are bad, you should try standing in front of a room full of people having an instructor rip your work absolutely to shreds... Furthermore, as a working artist you have to be prepared to take negative feedback and deal with it. Try telling a client or employer that they should be "nicer" when discussing the work they're paying you to do. In a nutshell, people who can't learn to deal with stuff like that shouldn't turn on comments. This kind of "everybody has to be nice" attitude is the reason why you only rarely get actual constructive feedback on any images at Renderosity.... bonni

Message edited on: 06/18/2004 03:37

Every once in awhile you need to be reminded life's not all that rosy. Helps keep you in check.

Maybe people just need to think more about how they word things If I know the artist (and I am not too tired lol) I will point out something that needs a tweak or 2 but will always find something about the image they did really well or I really like to comment on as well Chris :o)

All that serious artist stuff and how folks should just take the comments is a load of CR*P...most folks aren't constructive and I am not "in artschool"...I do this because it's fun and I post because I want to...not to be taught by some person that thinks that they are teaching me something...If I wanted lessons I would pay for them...most people have an over inflated sense of importance and just want to tell you how they would do it...SO WHAT!!!!...how someone else would do it is only important to them and people insecure enough to accept this treatment...I ain't trying to be Rembrandt, I'm just trying to have fun.....if you don't like my work then go pedal your pretentiousness elsewhere....most of the snide comments I get at times is from folks that do no works of their own and only want to find someone to screw with....some of you people ought to really hear yourselves....THAT is the problem most artists have...they take their selves too serious and think everyone else should have to....and telling people to get a thicker skin is telling the little trolls that they should be that insulting cause it's OK and people getting their feeling hurt is their problem...You troll my pictures then YOUR the one better have a thick skin cause I can dish it out MYSELF.....my thoughts are if you don't like my work and the way I do it then don't bother to look.....don't assume I EVER NEED your opinion.....I have been doing what I like and selling my stuff for over 50 years and the last thing I need is some snot nose with a computer that I will never EVER meet in life and means less than dog poop to me telling me how I should do my stuff....don't get me wrong...if you mind your manners I don't mind hearing from you...and if I like you I might even listen for a few minutes..but if your intent is to pretend how much you can teach me or to be MR. Art Critic...then don't waste Mine or your time being abusive....you'll only get your feeling hurt....

Gee, little defensive are we? 1) I don't think it's okay for people to be assholes. 2) People are going to be assholes ANYway, whether we want them to be or not. 3) Mean people troll galleries and say mean things. It's a fact of life. It's not something that should ruin your entire day or make you quit what you're doing. bonni

Oh, it won't make me quit...i am not defensive....I just can't stand to be told stuff that I know is not true and mostly just rationalizations by folks that are helpless to do more than what they advize others to do, namely just take it...I for one will never just take it....I ain't made that way....I have been told I am arrogant, well, maybe so...but I don't get ran over in the name of being taught how do do something that is personal and different for every individual....right now there are 1590 surfers here and each one would give different advice due to there individual experience...do YOU have the time to waste getting taught every thing each one wants to MAKE you hear...I don't...I'd rather just have fun....you troll my pictures i let you know how little your opinion means to me in a "nice" private message..if you get snotty I save your message and if you troll me over and over I proceed to make a case for your artistic demise from renderosity...I won't take that treatment and no one else should either....there are certain people here that make a hobby out of this type of thing only because they know they CAN hurt people...if nobody accepted this treatment and made a nice case against them (and they do it to more than one or two) then that person would not be hear for long and when everyone LEARNED that they HAD to be nice with the criticism, then what you all have said could happen...no one listens much after the first 10 or 15 people just tried to be as nasty as they could...any learning experience goes right down the toilet.... lasly If I came to your pictures and wrote "Yeah, right" or "thanks for nothing" then would you be so willing to accept them as being other than what they are....just because they are here and are nasty doesn't mean they have the RIGHT to be.....or that you should HAVE to accept it....things can always change and be made better but not as long as people defend this type of abuse..........now, I'll get off the soapbox and crawl back into my little corner to do more artwork...and yeah, I got one of THOSE people that likes to come and crap all over my day, did it just an hour ago, so all is rather fresh in my mind....

Look. I'm an extremely sensitive person. I get hurt very easily. But I managed to learn how to keep from going to bits every time someone says something mean to me. My point was that people can and do learn to handle this kind of stuff. And by the way, my opinions, life experience, and insights are no more "crap" than anyone else's. bonni

i didnt mean to get people upset,i was just concerned over some hurt feelings,,..but as i am finding out we all deal with thing diferently.and this place is open too all who follow the terms of service,i myself get plenty of suggestions and critisism but at the same time i respect my fellow artist. its up to you how you deal with it.in my book posative beats negative 9 times out of 10,the keyword here being my book,,everyone sees it a little different.and that is O.K.

"no one listens much after the first 10 or 15 people just tried to be as nasty as they could...any learning experience goes right down the toilet....
lasly If I came to your pictures and wrote "Yeah, right" or "thanks for nothing"
then would you be so willing to accept them as being other than what they are....just because they are here and are nasty doesn't mean they have the RIGHT to be.....or that you should HAVE to accept it....things can always change and be made better but not as long as people defend this type of abuse..."

You haven't been listening either. There is a difference between a "you suck" comment and constructive criticism. Constructive criticism such as 'this would look better with this type of lighting'... etc. And everyone here has said the nasty comments are not right. If you can't handle even a constructive and helpful comment then you need to turn off comments because it's not very fair of you to go off on someone and label them a troll simply because you can't handle being told something could be improved upon.

And if you're truely getting the nasty comments then deal with it with the mods and don't lump anyone who doesn't tell you how wonderfull you are in with the trolls.

"I can just picture it with this kind of lighting!" smile

"I can just picture it with a different color combination!" smile

"I can just picture it with a guy in place of the gal!" smile

How's those for an example of nice constructive criticism?

Message edited on: 06/18/2004 15:49

Any one of those I would consider helpful. :)

Ardiva - that's not criticism, constructive or otherwise. If people can't take a well-meant comment then that's a reflection on them rather than the commenter. If someone put a gun to my head and said it's either "I can just picture..." or a bullet in the brain, I'd be forced to take the bullet. DragonWizard - please, stop whining. Personally, I'd pay good money to get decent constructive criticism on my artwork. If someone takes the time to give me advice, even if it's obviously wrong, I'm over the moon and I'll personally thank them. I cannot understand why people would want only comments that say "awesome" or "bitchrod, dude!" What's the point of it? It's nice to get good feedback, but if you're going to throw a hissy fit every time someone tries to be constructive then maybe it's better to disable comments and send yourself an email stating "I am an awesome artist" 100 times. It's that kind of attitude that makes people not want to give proper critiques, for fear of receiving an angry response in return, or one of your "nice" PMs (shakin in my boots), and that deprives a lot of people of the chance to learn from others and improve. Some time ago I used to give critiques to people and almost every time I got back a PM thanking me for taking the time to comment (I still have the PMs on my old account). I wouldn't bother now though, I'd likely get an earful from someone who already knows it all.

Forgot the ;) after my first paragraph. Sorry if it seemed harsh, Ardiva, but it is my view :) DragonWizard - I probably wasn't harsh enough with you/

tafcat-I can picture saying "no problem!".smile lol! --------------------- I know for me that I may have an artist on my favs list that will upload a pic to their gallery that I feel is way beneath them. Trying to be the polite person I really am, I will just make a comment on what I DO like about it...i.e, the color combination..the sky...whatever I can find to say something positive. If its a good friend, I will then IM or email them to ask if perhaps they had an off day?

I agree with that - I'll always make a comment on what I do like before I say what I don't like :)

"-" There's my negative comment. Anyone gotta problem with it? ;-P

Boy some of you guys are in the wrong bizz! I am almost 50 and I can't see a reason to stop learning. Getting crapped on from a great height won't kill you. What are you going to do when the going really gets tough (no smiley). Greetings Eddie. Why settle for good when you could be great?

What are you going to do when the going really gets tough Have public tantrums, leave in a big huff, and then come back later with a different screen name. That seems to be the usual pattern, anyway... ;-) bonni

Heh, I think Bonni has an idea there ;)

Message edited on: 06/20/2004 02:33

I guess the differences really are between negative and constructive comments. There is no reason to be negative and rude...best to not say anything at all. And I kinda feel, who am I to criticize someone's stuff? I know mine isn't that great. I often find glaring errors in my images when I go back later to look at comments. The people who have given me constructive feedback, who I respect the most, have IMd or emailed me with their commentary, and haven't used real negative language. The "good job" etc comments have encouraged me to try harder, and since I do this a a hobby (no professional art training, no desire to do this as an "artist" so-to-speak), for pure enjoyment and stress relief, they help me to feel a bit good about my efforts, amateurish as they are. I also try to find something positive to say in any comments I make. Why should I tell someone to redo their image the way I would have done it? (lighting, etc) That person did their own thing, hopefully enjoyed themselves while doing it. There are a few folks here at Rendero (I have one in particular in mind) that take great personal pleasure in snide, snotty comments that don't go outside the TOS, but I always consider the source and quite frankly, unless it's a bona-fide troll (who I report directly to moderators and admin), I just laugh at the pathetic effort to make oneself feel better by trying to put someone else down. Didn't mean to write a book...

The people who have given me constructive feedback, who I respect the most, have IMd or emailed me with their commentary, and haven't used real negative language. Exactly. A true critique is meant to show areas where there could be improvement, as well as point out things that are done well. Random drive-by pot shot negative comments are worth next to nothing, though, so there's not much point giving them more attention or weight than they ought to have. ;-) bonni

Be busy with litterations, skin modifiers, be up to your neck in polys, nurms, splines whatever. Stretch yourself then small things become unimportant. I have seen amatures in other forums post work with the words "be as nice or nasty as you like" under them. Although these people don't live off what they do in 3d it demonstrates a professional mind set. Anyhow the worst insult you can have is when nobody comments at all.

Attached Link: http://forums.garyzullo.com

agreed, with caveats. I agree that there is just an overabundance of "crap", as you put it, that gets a glowing raving review, makes the hot20, etc. If you are going to tell someone that what they have posted sucks at least be able to site specific examples as to why. Saying it sucks is inflammatory while saying it sucks because the hot pink mountain looks rediculous at least appears constructive.

Not everyone needs their buttocks kissed to feel like one of the group. I personally would prefer honesty to buttkissing. I am part of a minority here I think in that everyone is too sensitive.

One last thing...not everyone can be all things. being honest can sometimes be the nicest thing you can do for another person. If I suck at something after 3 years of trying it...it might be time to move on.

These are of course just my views, they are not meant to start a flamewar, or insult anyone.

edited for typos (stupid typo monster)

/gz/ Message edited on: 06/21/2004 16:30

Message edited on: 06/21/2004 16:31

[crocodile_eddie]"Anyhow the worst insult you can have is when nobody comments at all." AMEN! It always makes me think the image must be so bad it's beyond any help at all, LOL.