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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Sep 09 2:22 am)
Subject: G.I.R.L. a great product but
Has anyone noticed that a lot of the clothes for her have more than a few poke throughs in her basic poses? Yes. Are you using P5 by any chance? The Lollipop Lovely set doesn't work very well in P5. I've been making it work reasonably well, but it's a bit of a fight. :( The DAZ-produced catsuit has been updated to fix some of the issues with P5, however. bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
that 'automatic fitting' that you like is the result of a bug in the program. its actually BAD when it happens. Sure it makes your life easier on one figure, but if you have more than one GIRL in the scene you'll get crosstalk and all your figures will have the same morphs active. Which is less than helpful
I haven't run into anything unfixable yet, does take a bit of time tweaking the JCM dials manually or applying magnets though :( What really annoys me is having to manually move all the bump maps from gradient bump to bump node in the material room and then set the numbers up...grrrrrrrrrr I keep hearing about this catsuit update but there is nothing on the Daz product update page about it.
I THINK what DAZ wants you to do in Poser 5 is... Don't conform the clothing to the figure, instead parent the clothing's BODY to the figure's BODY (this is to take care of moving the figure). If the figures doen't line up apply set the hip's Y trans to zero on both the figure and clothing first. Then apply the same pose to the clothing as the figure, or save the figure's pose to a memory dot and apply it to the clothing. The advantage of this system over any other is you can have more than one figure in Poser 5 and no crosstalk. (this system will not work in Poser 4/PP) Bear in mind DAZ doesn't officially support Poser 5, so they don't publish it, and as I don't actually use Poser 5 I haven't tested it. But it should work.
I have been wondering about this. Especially since NeftOOn Gal's stuff generally doesn't poke through and morphs "itself" if you have the body morph pack which also updates all the clothes to have the same morphs. I am finding the workaround for posing the catsuit still getting pokethru in some of the stock poses. I know you have to turn on the thin knee and ankle morphs, but it just still isn't working anywhere near what I would expect. Not that I'm going to return such a fine product, just seconding the frustration with it.
Yea. I don't blame the vendors at all. But I'm done buying from daz because Poser is just a minor diversion for me (but I've bought a lotta Poser stuff, hehe). As such I don't want to buy anything and 'wonder' whether it might work. Also, in another thread daz' answer to a pretty basic question was quite unsatisfactory. Sounds to me like they leave P5 customers in the lurch unnecessarily over their pissing contest with CL, which is fine. But in the mean time I'm done with daz.
Xena, I'm curious how a bug fix means not backwards compatible. There were loads of complaints about crosstalk, they fixed it. There were "solutions" to crosstalk (Null figures, .CR2 hacking, et al), but these also entail extra work of another sort I don't understand.
"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld
Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD
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Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)
- There absolutely will be a Poser 6. DAZ knows it. They are not enemies with Curious Labs, just friendly rivals. 2. Xena's outfit is wonderful. She's chosen not to support P5. She's made this known for a long time, so buying it and then whining ain't tha answer. 3. Poser 5 is backwards compatible with Poser 4. Poser 5 simply doesn't acknowledge the hack that allows the features that are causing the problem to work. Since they didn't develop the hack, don't whine when they don't support it. 4. Daz is not in a pissing contest with CL. They don't support P5 because they use the hacks in their products and they will not work in Poser 5. They did get upset when they found that (and other things) out initially. That's all water under the bridge now, Get over it.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
Curious Labs said P5 would be backwards compatible. If that were true, then anything made for P4.03 and PPP would work in P5. But they don't. Not even reflection and bump maps work correctly from what I'm told. And due to that, modellers and texturists have to do a lot more work to make their items compatible. Or, be like me and choose not to support a program that doesn't do what it is supposed to do. I know crosstalk is a 'bug'. And I know a lot of people wanted it fixed. But, CL DID say that P5 would be compatible. They didn't say "it'll be compatible but ....". Am I making any sense? I have a sick kid home today and he's driving me bonkers LOL so my sentence structuring may be a little off ;) Not one single P5 user has contacted me to let me know there IS a problem. I'm always open to helping out my customers, and I'm not hard to reach :) I always say I don't support Poser 5, but I believe in what I do and if someone has a problem I'll do everything in my power to help. As for Daz made Girl items, they have posted a fix. If people want to use that, terrific. If not, they have an excellent 30 day money back guarantee. (btw, my outfits don't rely on crosstalk at all) Thanks ynsaen :) I have actually been looking into supporting P5. Have even added a P5 beta tester to my crew to help with that (now to find a good D|S tester!). Plus getting some really god info from Gareee who seems to really know his way around the program.
so long as I don't have to hack the cr2 I spend too much time in that house of horrors ;) And I wasn't aiming that specifically at you Bonnie, just in general :) Of course, if you want me to fix it, email or message me with the details of the problem/s and I'll see if I can fix it permenantly so you don't have to fuss with it. And no, Poser has never been an easy problem. Working around the probs was fine until a newer version came that won't let our workarounds work anymore :( Wish in one hand, spit in the other as my ole ma used to say :)
Not one single P5 user has contacted me to let me know there IS a problem. [...] I always say I don't support Poser 5 Hmmm. Maybe that's why people don't contact you? ;-P poke poke For the record, I wasn't actually complaining. I can get the Lollipop Lovely set to work pretty well in P5. I don't mind tweaking a little. It's easier to do with LL than with The Dress for The GIRL, believe me! ;) My take on it is that Poser has NEVER been an easy program to use. It's got all sorts of weird quirks and peculiarities. Working around something (so long as I don't have to hack the cr2, which i damn well HATE doing!) isn't that big of an issue for me. For new users, however, who aren't familiar with all the "workarounds" for Poser and who only have access to Poser 5 (since they just get the latest program without knowing all the history and politics behind it), it could be more problematic. Basically, I think that at the number of P5 users grows, the demand for stuff that works reasonably well in P5 is going to increase. It's just something for content developers to keep in mind. bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
I wasn't complaining either. I was under the impression that crosstalk was a bug. I recall lots of threads about this. (I wonder how far back the Poser Forum Database goes here....) I purchased the Lollipop Lovely set. I own Poser 5 (Gotta really good deal.) I just didn't understand. It happens in the digital world that bugs get fixed in time and 'hacks' that work in the mean-time-in-between-time the old and new versions will break in the new version. I wasn't poking. It's actually nice when a company fixes complaints from users. (Hear That Bill Gates???) I am wondering how much of the old crew will be working on Poser 6. What will break then?.....
"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld
Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD
space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)
I decided to get myself a P5 tester and climb down off my high horse Well, my dear Gemini lady, I have P5 (and Pro Pack and P4) so if you ever want a "second opinion" shoot me a message. And get that horse out of the forums, quick! Folks around here will beat it to death and then beat it some more, no matter how high it is! ;-P bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
Xena, you're welcome :) Hope the kidlet feels better -- I just tossed all mine and the house is mighty quiet now...sniff... Liz, I know you weren't complaining, but I'm still up in arms over P5 versus P4. As for backwards compatibility: The little "move the bump thingy" isn't a bug, and is a preference -- not a necessary thing. IT's just sorta become the community preference -- and it's not always the best idea. What's interesting is that P5 bump channel goes to the right place in P4 and pro pack -- but there is no bum creation in P5 (like Pro Pack). I've yet to find anything created for Poser 4 that doesn't work in Poser 5 -- with the exception of stuff utilizing hacks. I have seen a lot of problems with people learning to use Poser 5 -- it does have a LOT more options to it and they can easily be set up wrong. Hair, for example, frequently chokes P5 when it's made using a trick that takes advantage of specific properties of the old P4 rendering engine and this is combined with IMHO excessively large textures. By adjusting the textures and performing a set of changes to the mesh construction, you can make it work in P5 -- but, again, this isn't the "fault" of anyone. The hair was designed to use features specific to the rendering engine -- that same hair works fine in the P4 renderer in P5. I don't have any trouble with Xena's stuff in Poser 5 -- the poke through that I see on occasion isn't the fault of the clothing, but of the figure's use of a joint system that is built on a hack. For good reason, too, I'll add. Lastly, as for the number of P5 users, they currently outnumber the p4 users. P4 and ProPack combined are about equal to P5, and about a third of P5 users still use either pro pack of P4 to some extent. P6 will be out next year. One can reasonably expect to see P4 dwindle dramatically in overall users once it is released -- despite the vocal folks here who have sworn otherwise. The overwhelming majority of Poser users no longer are focused on Renderosity -- many of them haven't even heard of it. P6 will either make this a lot worse or killit as a debate entirely. Me, I'm betting on surviving P6, lol.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
Poor horse LOL Will probably take you up on that Bonni. You were on my short list of people to ask to join our testing team anyway ;) Yeap, crosstalk is a bug. No doubt about it. It's just one that many modellers have taken advantage of :) Like a lot of Poser's little quirks. So when a new version comes along that basically says 'Screw you, figure out another way to do it', you get kinda cranky :) Now, I add morphs named differently to areas that generally rely on crosstalk/hacks/whatever, so that when it fails in P5, the morphs should still work fine when dialed in manually. This means a bit of extra work for the P5 user (twist a dial or two) but other than making dynamic clothing I don't see another way to combat poke thru on figures that use pre-P5 quirks. P5 hair shudder
"I am wondering how much of the old crew will be working on Poser 6. What will break then?..... " I would suggest expecting the light hacks to be thoroughly broken, and for additional features there, and otherwise to expect a bit more speed and general usability. But that's just my suggestion. As for how much of the old crew: enough to make it worthwhile, not enough to be thinking politics....
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
add morphs named differently to areas that generally rely on crosstalk/hacks/whatever, so that when it fails in P5, the morphs should still work fine when dialed in manually. If there are morphs in the breast/chest area of the Lollipop Lovely dress/catsuit I have to admit I couldn't find them. The GIRL has real problems keeping her boobs in any garment, though... What I ended up doing was just fiddling with the scale a bit until it covered her breasts and that worked fine. bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
Really? That's very weird. I specifically added morphs for the up and down movement of the collars. That's the reason it was a late arrival :) Yeap, there they are (I just fresh installed from the Daz exe). On the bodysuit ... Chest: LCollarUp RCollarUp LCollarDown RCollarDown rCollar: RCollarUp RCollarDown lCollar: LCollarUp LCollarDown Same morphs for the dress. Do you have any morphs on the chest/collars?
Oh, I did find the collar ones and fiddled with them a fair bit, but they didn't do anything to cover those enormous hooters. ;) The problem was that her breasts were always poking through the front of the dress or catsuit, which is why adjusting the z-scale worked. bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
Well that has got me intrigued Bonni. All the images, including the promo's that I've done have no scaling, no morphs (other than the ones mentioned above) or anything done to them to make the outfit fit other than conforming it. Do any other clothes not fit correctly like that in P5? Tunesy, I do understand your stance. Poser is 'supposed' to be a hobby :) Unfortunately, there are still a very large amount of people who don't have the latest version and expect things to work for them as well. It's simply a matter of not being able to please all the people all the time. Up until recently, the majority of users were P4 based, so merchants tailored their products around the largest user base. Things are changing, but slowly :)
Do any other clothes not fit correctly like that in P5? For The GIRL, definitely. Her breasts are highly problematic for some reason. I'm wondering if it's because they're posable. Can you believe I just mentioned problematic posable breasts with a straight face? When I get off my lazy butt I'll send you some renders of the "pre adjustment" look so you can consider the problem. ;-) bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
Ynsaen: 1 -- "They're...just friendly rivals." I've been in business long enough to know that's a naive notion ;) 2 -- I didn't whine about it at all. I just returned it because it didn't work on the latest version of Poser. 3 -- Dunno. I've no interest in P4 vs P5 issues, only whether a product works with the latest version. 4 -- Ditto #3. My complaint was quite valid. Your "don't whine" stuff sure is bossy. You a daz employee?
Oh, and as for "Xena's outfit is wonderful. She's chosen not to support P5. She's made this known for a long time..." I'd never heard of Xena until I had to return the outfit (no offense Xena. If I ever do P4 I'll buy it again. It's a beautiful product.) so obviously it wasn't known to me. You appear to be going on the assumption that all of us follow what all the individual artists are doing. We don't. Nowhere on the page (http://secure.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=2490)does it say anything about not working with P5. That's pretty cheezy on daz' part. They know damn well they'd lose sales to P5 users if they put up a simple honest disclaimer i.e. 'does not work properly with P5' somewhere on the page and so they don't. When I stumble into people like that in my business I avoid em like the plague. Sanctimonious daz cheering won't change my mind about their methods.
None taken Tunesy. Would never be so bold as to assume anyone other than my children actually know who I am ;) As I said before, I am attempting to support P5, and if I can figure it out (without having P5 installed, as I no longer own it and that is a REALLY long story LOL) the LL Outfit will be updated to work with P5 :) Thank you for the compliment :) Daz do have a disclaimer on site, although not on every product. I believe it's in the FAQ's? Someone will correct me if I'm wrong ;) I do understand where ynsaen is coming from though. We old forum hounds hear everything, and tend to know what's going on, and assume everyone else does. Because that's the way it used to be. The Poser community 'used to be' a close knit group. Now though, as stated in this thread, a lot of P5 owners don't even know R'osity exists. We just need to wrap our heads around that :)
Meaning no disrespect to anyone, it is quite possible to create a product that works well in both Poser 4/Pro Pack and Poser 5. Although granted, that's difficult if you don't have P5. ;)
As for contacting DAZ and/or the artist when I have problems in Poser 5, this is why I've all but given up on that if I'm still within my 30 day return period.
- If I contact DAZ, I get the run-around from tech support for at least two iterations. I know some people get great response, but for one reason or another, I do not. I don't know if I have a reputation as "just a troublemaker", or if as a tech-junkie, I'm more likely to ask atypical questions, or what. But often I first have to convince DAZ that there IS a problem, and then I've got a 50-50 chance of getting a "well, we're not going to fix that, but you can do it yourself." Thanks, I knew that 3 e-mails ago.
- If I contact the Published Artist directly, I may get a fix. However, DAZ is regularly very slow to publish the update. I know of at least three Published Artists who have had to hound DAZ to get their updates posted. Even worse, sometimes DAZ gets a fix but, for one reason or another, does not publish it AT ALL. (For example, if you have the She-Freak, load her up, try to bend the last joint of each finger, and notice what doesn't happen.)
To be perfectly frank, I'm sick of wasting my time. There are plenty of merchants and brokerages who don't make me jump through hoops to get a functioning product. If a DAZ item doesn't work, I'll just return it. If they do fix it, maybe I'll buy it again, but I've better things to do with my time than fight with them over it in the meantime.
Okay, for Xena's benefit and also my own curiosity, I had a play with the Lollipop Lovely bodysuit in P5 and finally found that the problems with the breasts can be pretty easily fixed, and not only that but when you re-pose the figure, the fixes still work. Conform the clothes to the GIRL, then select the right or left collar, and use the collar down morphs to just cover whatever part of the breasts are exposed. Then, because it's likely the back will also be exposed, use the scale on the bodysuit's chest and increase the z-scale to whatever you need to make it fit (I found that about 106% was perfect). I must say, the LL bodysuit actually work a lot better in P5 than the DAZ girl bodysuit, which is a real pain to work with. Xena, I'll PM you with image locations so you can see what was happening and how it looks "fixed". :-) bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
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Has anyone noticed that a lot of the clothes for her have more than a few poke throughs in her basic poses? The catsuit, the Lollipop or whatever its called set...and they don't Morph with her. One thing I love about Alexa is that her clothes morph to her. If you set the chest on 1, the thighs on 2 when you load the catsuit...it fits. I'm hoping DAZ does an update for her. Especially (misspelled) the dress, it is so hard to get it to go where she's going. Mind you, I love GIRL (just look at my gallery of the last week) but after the long wait, well I was expecting better quality of clothes for her, the quanity was great (still missing my sci fi set and weapons) and my walllet is a testiment to that. I'm just tired of using taper on her.