Well I think that since all other threads were locked and all disussion has been herded into this thread that people should have some idea about what this is all about :)

I don't know if that could have been gleaned from all the postings so far or not.

Still I was told that discussing it ,rewording or other wise is why I was banned. I said the same as you just said but in my own words ,and Im banned.

Run faster, Richabri. :) RC

I don't know who is the merchant and which is the product, I don't know with few exceptions who is pro and who is against the name, I shall try to make it all rational. 1- Someone put some product with some name in the marketplace. 2- Some merchants find the product's name offensive for women and asked to be changed the name. 3- Other merchants (men and women) find nothing wrong with the name. 4- One Renderosity moderator find nothing wrong. 5- This mean that the name is not conclusive, it can be bad or good depending only on the person. 6- Renderosity reached the conclusion that the name can be used. 7- Some members reacted to the actitude of Renderosity allowing the use of the name. 8- Result, WAR, many people offended, banned, posts locked, etc, etc, etc. Let try now another scenario: 6- Renderosity accepted the complains and forbidden the use of the name. 7- The offended persons are happy with the decision. 8- The merchant who made the product is offended because he had to change the name that for him has nothing wrong. 9- Other merchants are offended and pissed off due the censure. 10- Lot of insults from the new offended towards the old offended. 11- Result, WAR, many people offended, banned, posts locked, etc, etc, etc. You can see that the result is the same in both cases. -------------------------- Something to think about. 1- Someone post some kind of nude picture in the gallery 2- You make complains because if your Grandma see the picture will be offended. 3- You manage to get the picture removed. 4- Now you are happy because your Grandma will be not offended by this nude. 5- But with your actitude you have offended your Grandpa not allowing him to see the same nude!

"If ANY term is used as an attack on a member, it would not be allowed. The key here is the difference in the intended use. We are in fact talking about the name of a product, not an attack directed at a member. If "Juggs" or any other name, were used as part of an attack directed towards a member that would be a different set of circumstances entirely and would not be allowed." And lillian just how does a mod determine what someone's intentions are? Often times in the written word things can be taken a number of differing ways. And what happens when they "judge" someone's intentions to be something that they are not? Seems to me, what Renderosity is really saying then, in a very roundabout way, is that anything posted that some mod does not like gets pulled, and the person gets "warned" or "banned". I dont know about the rest of the community, but I for one am a little insulted that the ptb here do not think that we members, as adults, are capable of deciding what our "intentions" are or not, without having to have any input from some mod.

'I said the same as you just said but in my own words ,and Im banned.'

That's just why I didn't use your words :) I only offered a synopsis so I hope I haven't betrayed any confidences.

BTW - Happy Birthday ernyoka1 :)

Good points kawecki and I think this happens with a lot of decisions here. There is war no matter how it goes. This one has overtones of sexism though and I think this contributed to the hurt feelings much more than other issues.

While I don't think that the final determination was made due to any sexist agenda nobody can deny that the underlying issue does involve sexism. So it's not going to go away anytime soon and it will come up again.

Chief among these are that it's not so much the name - I've passed by it, rolled my eyes, and moved on - but in how concerns are treated. Yes, that sums it right up for me. I'm not offended. Very little offends me, and that's a fact. What HAS bothered me in this whole thing is that 17 merchants (or so the count has been stated) came forward and said they found the term inappropriate and felt that it was not conducive to creating a professional image of the store (note that the PTB are always worried about "professional image" and they will censor and control banner images for that very reason). The concerns of the merchants who voiced their dismay at the use of a derogatory (or at least, affronting) term were pretty much dismissed. One merchant (who happens to earn a lot of money for Renderosity) far outweighs the concerns of 17+ others and who knows how many potential and actual customers. Now as I said, I'm not offended by the product name (and I have nothing against the merchant). I AM offended that "If the PTB aren't bothered, then those of you who are can just take a flying leap. Sorry, gals!" This kind of handling of people's concerns, along with the terse, canned, cold phrases of response, the "behind closed doors" so-called discussion by staff, the heavy-handed banning, locking, and moving of threads (with no followup link), and general apparent (note: apparent, as I don't know what the ACTUAL thoughts and feelings of the staff are because it's impossible to tell when they only use terse, canned, cold phrases) lack of sensitivity to perfectly valid concerns is precisely why there are now so many competing brokering houses and Poser/3D communities. bonni

Thnaks for the explanations Richabri and Kawecki. Hope your banning is only temporary, Lordfox. I love your work. I'd still buy it regardless of where it's sold though. I think most non-merchants can tell what's going on just by reading these threads. So, I don't think at this point Richabri broke any trust with Rendy. - they're keeping this open even after the eggs out of the basket. But I guess what I'm curious about is the accusation that the Rendy admin policy denigrates women. If this is an isolated incident where one person came forward which then sparked a passionate debate that's one thing. But if there have been numerous complaints within the same forum about other products that debase women that's a whole another thing. From a consumer's standpoint, I think Rendy should not be so quick to ban merchants from the merchant forum because that person's only other outlet then becomes the public forums. Even if they're banned from Rendy altogether, the banned merchant will air out their complaint at some other Poser site and the problem will again become public knowledge and even look worse for Rendy. I have a lot of respect for Ynsaen as a member of the Poser community which makes me want more answers, otherwise I'd probably blow this off as another empassioned explosion of emotion which we get around here frequently (me included :P).

If this is an isolated incident where one person came forward which then sparked a passionate debate that's one thing. But if there have been numerous complaints within the same forum about other products that debase women that's a whole another thing. Good point, Interestingly enough, there would be no way to know. Since the Merchants forum is locked to all but merchants, and the merchants are forbidden to tell the rest of the community whats going on there.

This kind of handling of people's concerns, along with the terse, canned, cold phrases of response, the "behind closed doors" so-called discussion by staff, the heavy-handed banning, locking, and moving of threads (with no followup link), and general apparent (note: apparent, as I don't know what the ACTUAL thoughts and feelings of the staff are because it's impossible to tell when they only use terse, canned, cold phrases) lack of sensitivity to perfectly valid concerns is precisely why there are now so many competing brokering houses and Poser/3D communities.

This kind of handling of people's concerns is also pretty much status quo for this "community" and one of the biggest reasons that I had boycotted buying anything here for 9 months.

If you even pay marginal attention the PTB are nearly always dismissive of member concerns until it becomes absolutely clear to them that it might actually have an impact on the site.

I suspect sometimes even through they say there is no impact there actually is and that is why we then see an about face on whatever issue it is.

They had been handling things at least marginally better from what I could see and I broke a 9 month boycott to buy Paradise Hair (which I ironically found out about via a "complaint" type thread in the copyright forum as I do not cruise the mp here).

Now I'm pretty much sorry I did, even though I absolutely love the hair and highly recommond it ;)

Fortunately for most products I have seen in the Product Showcase if I have PMed the merchant and explained that I would love to buy their product, but I won't buy from R'osity I have found that they sell at other places as well so I am still able to get products I would like and the merchants don't lose out by my not shopping here.

"Since the Merchants forum is locked to all but merchants, and the merchants are forbidden to tell the rest of the community whats going on there." Don't worry, the Merchant forum is boring, only things such as, "can you change the product name", "how nuch is the upload queue", "my check is lost", etc, etc. Time to time something happens, this one only I knew today and had to browse several pages to discover what was going on.

We dont always get what we want. I cant believe this has gotten so much attention and a certain persons crusade is this issue. Just my 2 cents... but man this all seems a waste of bandwidth... lol.

"That's just why I didn't use your words :) I only offered a synopsis so I hope I haven't betrayed any confidences." 1.I posted ,not word per word but what happened and why.. I also took great care as to how I did post to make sure I didnt break any confidences. 2.THE reason given to me for being banned from the merchant forum is as follows :"3. Taking information from the merchant forum and reposting elsewhere. We ask that this information is respected as private information and is not copied or reworded outside the forum. We do ask merchants to keep this information confidential so that merchants can feel comfortable in discussing issues." 3.Why am I banned and not you? You discussed what was being talked about, you synopsed(im way to tired to even begin to care if thats actually a word) as did I in regards to who asked for what to be changed. The only difference is you were semi-quoting me and I was semi-quoting wyrm. SO it seems we're back to square one.Uneven distribution of the belt,so to say.Hey if I was bad ,by all means ground me for a week but dont permanently ban me when the SAME EXACT THING I GOT BANNED FOR is going on in this very thread.

The most appalling, offensive thing I've ever heard is the name of a James Bond character, "Pussy Galore". Seems to be okay with everyone else though. =-WTB

.

We dont always get what we want. Particularly when what we want is a responsive administration team. bonni

Lordfox, why does all this happen when i've gone to bed :) lets hope from what has been said here that this stupid ban on you is lifted because it seems to be personal and not profesional. There does seem to be a different field to play in for different merchants, some merchants have a lush, flat green playing field, others are shoved out into a just ploughed field which is full of potholes to trip up in and is rough going. Take care Piglet

Oh, great.

I suppose that it was time for another one.

People.......merchants.......I couldn't care less about this entire tempest in a teapot.

If my attitude offends anyone...too bad. That's your problem and not mine. I am not an admin, so I don't have to be "sensitive". And I will not be forced into being politically correct.

I am merely a customer, and your stuff is in my cart/wishlist.

If you make a product that I like, then I'll buy it -- without any regard to the product's name: or to your personal brand of "politics". Or even if I've had a forum argument with you over something or other.

Some of this stuff is so-o-o-o-o petty.

Call me insensitive. In this case, I do it without apology.

Dear ynsaen, I would lie to start with an experience I had yesterday. Yesterday I uploaded a forum post at the Product showcase section for a product I have in pending. Let me explain. The Product Name: Triple-X SUPERSTARS The product has 2 M3 and 1 V3 Character and the character names are Dale Dabone - Rod Hardie - Candy Cream And the pack includes some ADULT ORIENTED poses which I didn't display any pictures of. YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT HAPPENED? Within a minute of my post Clint H. Messeged me, saying that I can not sell it at Renderosity with that product name and character names. This is how the product is now. Product Name : THE NAUGHTY BUNCH Character names: Rod - Eric - Candy Poses are still in but I had already known that I couldn't have displayed them and never did at the post. ------------------------------------------- What i am trying to say here is, RENDEROSITY ADMINS really do care about these things and they are very helpful in the process of every single step of a product from the moment it is in PENDING to RELEASE and DURING SALE. Now I truly agree with the decision of Clint and thankful for the help he gave about the way the product should be + displayed. BUT I WANT TO ASK ONE THING. About the product name I had first had, I agree it was very low and wrong. About the character names, I changed them but really I don't understand why I had to change the character names. If I really did have to change them, how come wrymmaster can give some sort of names to his/her characters? If we are talkig about FAUL language WRYMMASTER means something not really good (I heard it at SEX AND THE CITY lol) Somebody correct me if I am wrong, my english is not perfect. I am not having a go at the merchant, I don't even know him or her. All what I am trying to understand is, are some people invisible to admins or am I getting the whole concept wrong? Best regards, Umut B. Aydin (umutov)

Umut, Your product was geared heavily towards porn based on the name selection. The other product in question was not. Clint

Gotta make something absolutely clear here, that all three of you seem to have skipped over or not understood. I don't give a damn about the name of a product. This is not about the name of a product. The names that were, um, originally provided in Umut's package are his decision, for example. It is the merchant's responsibility to name a product, not Renderosity's. If this particular issue for me had been about the name of a product, I would not have been having an argument with the site administration, but rather with a particular merchant. Listen carefully, ok? Here goes: I never said this was about the name. I have never had an ulterior motive to get the name changed. If you were to take the time to actually read what I have posted, you would realize this. Furthermore, there seems to be some question as to whether or not I am still actively pursuing this. The answer is no. Again, if you read the thread, you will note that in posts 1, 9, 11, 24, 32, and 33, the site administration and I actually managed to discuss this and come to a resolution of it on my part. I had two terms: that they apologized to the merchants that they were rude to (and the apparent lack of understanding what exactly my point has been indicates an equal measure of such on your part), and that they correct a policy which was not clearly and effectively stated, and could have long term consequences which I, for one, know they would not like. Renderosity did both of those things. That was it. I hope this effectively addresses your concerns as it pertains specifically to my issues. The name thing ya'll will have to work through yerselves...

I just wandered into this thread (via the Product Showcase forum, wanted to see what others were working on) and I find it interesting that you, ynsaen seem to have no problem with posts SHOWING breasts (as seen at http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=555821&Start=1&Artist=ynsaen&ByArtist=Yes). You do realize, don't you, that a picture like that is concidered offensive and degrading to women by many, many, many people? I'm not one of them, but there are millions who equate nudity with pornography. Pot, kettle, black?

Could you post a list of which terms for large breasts you find acceptable? Here's a list you can choose from: http://home.swipnet.se/~w-44676/nomaam/breasts.html

Dear ynsaen, I want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to address your concerns. We do take these concerns seriously. We will continue to strive to provide the best merchant and customer support possible. As the original concerns of this thread have been addressed and acknowledged, we respectfully call this thread complete. Best regards, LillianH