...didn't sell as well as they'd hoped. First they changed the coupon to a voucher, then allowed you to choose whether you wanted a coupon or a voucher. Now they've extended the deal for another week - until Oct. 6. And they've made the vouchers good for 60 days, instead of just 30.

Even though I don't want Bryce 5.5, I will probably buy a starter bundle. With the voucher, I'll probably make money on the deal. And I'm curious about their P5-optimized content.

Maybe they extended the deal so they can get the Mil3 kids & Mil big cat out...those could be delayed...Besides lots of peep yakking that not enough Daz Originals out.

I think they made it too complicated. A lot of people didn't understand the offer. Five different packages, voucher or coupon, etc. Non-PC members have little experience with vouchers, and didn't understand about original vs. brokered products. The coupons they first issued, that were good on one purchase only, really annoyed people. And they didn't tell everyone what to me is a major selling point: that P5-optimized versions of the content would be included.

DAZ really ought to hire a marketing pro. Their half-baked promotions often alienate as many people as they attract. :-/

I think the complications, and the changes were all in good response to customer feedback. I know I bought one of the bundles, and was considering a refund, but with the extension, and the change ffrom coupon to voucher, I'm a happy camper. Heck, with any luck, Bryca 5.5 will be out in 60 days, and I'll still have a little of it left! LOL!!

I think the complications, and the changes were all in good response to customer feedback.

The changes may have been, but the complications were all their own doing. That PDF used "voucher" and "coupon" interchangeably. Then Bryan announced it was being changed from a voucher to a coupon, before anyone even complained. (Then changed it back.)

I mean, they call it a "Starter Bundle," and say it's aimed mainly at beginners...but what beginner will be able to untangle the offer and really understand it? PC vs. non-PC, voucher vs. coupon, upgrade or not, etc. Never mind what lo-res figures really are. A lot of people who have been buying from DAZ for years couldn't figure it all out.

I already own Bryce 5, most of the models in question, and the ones I don't own didn't really interest me. I'm not in the PC, so basically I'd get a $30 voucher, a month in PC, which would be nice but after spending $60 bucks, I'm not gonna have much to spend in the PC. Oh and the lower price on Bryce 5.5 which I might not get anyway. Even thought it is a nice deal and a great one for beginners, it didn't seem like a great deal for me so I'll let it pass.

My problem with it was that a)the details of the offer confused the !@#$ outta me--had to read it over a couple of times and check the details in the forum they posted to better explain it; and b)I simply can't justify the expense of it compared to other "basics" I want that AREN'T included in the package. And hey, I'm still learning Poser, so until I've got a better handle on it, I'm not about to tackle Bryce. Pretty good idea, but overall poor execution, IMHO.

How many years has DAZ been in the business? You think they'd know their customers by now, and do something right the first time. Barring that, they should conduct some polls to see what types of merchandise we prefer, what kind of deal we'd want, etc. This latest deal seems to be really geared toward Bryce. I don't need another graphics program right now, and Bryce really doesn't appeal to me. Heck, I don't have the money. DAZ also should clearly state that the Reduced Resolution figures are really limited in their usage. They're not a substitute for the "full figures," in closeups, etc. They could even put a positive spin on that.

LOL!!! "DAZ really ought to hire a marketing pro." um, and just what did you think Bryan was? ok, ok, he's an M&A guy. But still, lol...

I don't know what Bryan is, but he doesn't seem to have much experience with retail advertising, if he's the one in charge of DAZ promotions.

I got the impression that he was sort of on the techie side. Market research, maybe, but not PR.

Um, the even the reduced res figures have more polys then MANY normal figures. I think the RR versions even have more polys then Koshini, Krystal, and I know they have more then the Heavies.. and you saw when I got a hold of them. One of my main reasons for purcahse was to get the RR figures.. I'd like to see a RR Freak as well...

I think people expect more realism from Mike and Vicky than from toon-type characters. All those people upset because RR Vicky has no nipples, demanding a "nipple morph," etc. I doubt they'd expect that of The Heavies. ;-)

Dunno 'bout that, I don't like missing parts on any models. Add-on options are fine, maybe even two versions, a "lite" and a "regular" but everything else ought to be there.

Have you even seen the meshes of the rr figures? There are plenty of polys there for some great characters, and the nipples morphs were probably removed for a reason, because there is plenty or mesh there for the morph, with no problem. And some of the renders of the Heavies, Koshini and Girl look VERY nice... a good bump or displacement map can easily make up for more polys in many cases. Of course, then you end up using your resources on maps instead of polygons...

Bobbie: Of Course the bundle is going to be Bryce intensive! It's their newest acquisition, so naturally they're gonna push it. Think I've figured their MO: start a new project and then devote all resources to it to the exclusion of (just about) everything else. Look at the release of "The Girl" and more recently their "Jungle" stuff. Since I'm not interested in Bryce, Girl or Jungle, I'm buying off my wish list and haven't added to it in a LOOOONG time.

FWIW Bryan is "Chief Profit officer" Steve Kondris is Marketing and PR

I've stayed away from the threads about the bundles for the most part, as the initial info and ads were quite confusing. More to the point, these things were tied into the forthcoming Bryce 5.5 as "starter bundles," and included some ancient, overexposed DAZ products along with the lo-poly versions of models that I already have the full versions of. A few new fairy items do not entice. :-) It's odd to me that they didn't think of a promo for non-newbies who already have all that stuff. If I understand correctly, the only way to receive a discount on the release of v5.5 was to buy into one of these "starter" bundles. I'm sure they're great for total newbies, but the whole confusing thing was sort of a turn off for this non-newbie. Poor DAZ ... their customer base is SO hard on them, but not always without good reason. :-)

'Poor DAZ ... their customer base is SO hard on them, but not always without good reason' I have to agree. I won't go into the ins and outs of the bundles (I have no interest in them), but DAZ really ought to get a grip with their promotions. Most of these things are good deals when you get down to the nitty-gritty, but boy, is it ever difficult to figure them out! DAZ need to start keeping it simple, stupid. Never mind the expired shelf-life add-ons and byzantine calculations with vouchers and coupons. Just put out packs at good prices and cut the kak. 'start a new project and then devote all resources to it to the exclusion of (just about) everything else' That comment makes me laugh though. You may not like The Girl, but nobody can complain about lack of support for new chars. It's not so long ago that people were bitching because vicki and mike didn't have any clothes! Sometimes DAZ just can't please anyone. mac

Are you kidding? A lot of people are complaining about the lack of support for David.

Dean, they've said they will now offer upgrade pricing for 5.5 (and sidegrade pricing for Vue owners). But you're right, their original idea was guaranteed to tick people off. No upgrade pricing unless you buy the Starter Bundle. And nothing particularly compelling in the Starter Bundle for a non-newbie.

I figure I'll spend $50 at DAZ over the next two months. And with the PC discount, I can get the upgrade bundle for aobut $40. So even if I find all the content useless, and never use the Bryce coupon, it's still worth it.

I don't really need RR figures, but who knows, I might get more into animation someday, and then they might be useful.

The RR figures (from what I read) were supposed to be good for crowd shots, and scenes where having the full version would put a serious drain on the resources of most people's computers. I have DAZ Studio, but I've hardly done anything with it and have no plans at this time to get the Starter Bundle. I MIGHT get the Poser bundle, but the more I read, the less likely that is to happen. And since most of the improvements to Bryce 5 seem to involve D|S I'm just going to sit back and wait for Bryce 6.

Gotta agree with you on David, randy. He's a cool figure and I like him alot, but there is a real dearth of material out there for him...at DAZ anyway. If they'd have devoted a tenth of the effort to him that they have The Girl, he'd have a complete wardrobe by now, scads of props and cool sets to play around in. He's getting quite short-changed. Good look at how to do this right is look at RTDNA's release of their new Laroo version. Not that I'm interested in her, either, but they just hit with a second wave of all kinds of stuff for her while at the same time continuing to release other things for the other characters. Oh, and mac, it's not that I fault DAZ for supporting the new stuff. It's only natural. I'd just like to see a few other things here and there along with them. Spread things out a bit more. That's all.

He's getting quite short-changed Because he's a... he. C'mon, if they ever come out with a GUY, you think it's gonna have as much supplemental material as the GIRL? Look at the Freak -- great model, very popular... and has zip in the way of support from DAZ. M3? Might as well never have released the damn thing.

Well, they've got the problem that so many 3D related companies do have, poor communication.... Happens to Curious Labs, E-On, Caligari, and more. Not owning any of these figures I do think the Bundle is well worth it. I don't think that they sold too little, they're just giving people who got caught up in all of the confusion another chance. On the other hand I must remark, the whole deal seemed pretty clear to me when I read it, I don't understand half of the confusion around anyway. I agree with the voucher/coupons thingy though, that was a mess. But the way they've suddenly changed it where you can't use the vouchers on PC itmes anymore, wasn't fair at all. So they had to take care of that and give people the option hoew to spent it. I really do think the deal was clear, but DAZ hasn't got a good few of the wants and needs of their costumers and that's when the whole confusion started. Same with their poll, again a clear thing that DAZ doesn't understand their customers. They go ahead and put lot's of effort into D/S, while the majority of their costumers isn't interested in it at all. They neglect Poser 5 users for years, while they represent a major customer group. They work hard on getting D/S 1.0 out, while many more people rather see Bryce 5.5 coming. They put lot's of effort into integration between D/S and Bryce, while just as much people would like to see a good integration between Poser and Bryce. At times I really don't get DAZ at all. They purchase Bryce, but do not see the importance of making Bryce work with Poser 5 at all (only after the poll they do). While that has been the main reason many poser users have been switching to Vue over the past years. At times their choices seem not based on good and sensible judgement and knowledge of the market their moving in.

M3? Might as well never have released the damn thing.

I don't think that's true. I don't deny that the female figures tend to get more stuff than the male ones. But M3 got a ton of stuff when he was released. So much so that some people were griping that it was too much - they couldn't afford to buy it all while it was still at its introductory discount price.

In the "name the new MilKids" thread, someone suggested that the boy be named "The Nude Dude," because the first MilBoy didn't get any clothes, and the new one probably wouldn't, either. LOL!

And it's not just the male characters that get neglected. The MilGirl didn't get much support (though she's gotten a lot of stuff at other sites). Then there's Sara...

A lot of people are just not very enthusiastic about new DAZ figures when so many of the current ones aren't adequately supported. When they announced the new unimesh MilKids, there were some pretty cranky replies. Which disappeared pretty quickly. :-)

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=8561

There are just to many new figures coming out these days and sometimes I wonder if DAZ is just not wanting to make quick money from these figures. There even continuing to sell the M1/V1 figures but hardly offer anything for them anymore. Also the new M3/V3 Reduced Resolution figures (part of the bundle now) will be sold seperately next week or so for guess how much? $39.95 each..... That's what I call a rip off, knowing that the full figures are just as expensive. At least there was a price difference between V2/M2 and V2/M2 RR. I do still wonder how people can afford all this stuff they buy at DAZ, knowing that it's not strange for people to spent hundreds of $$$ per month. I'm not against DAZ at all, I'm a very happy PC member (at least that stuff is affordable), but some of their policies and prizes baffle me....

Hi all, To be perfectly candid, the reason the deal was so confusing is that we tried to create a scenario, that was a good deal for everyone of our customers. We tried to make sure the PC members got their deal. We tried to make sure that people who already owned Bryce got their deal. We tried to make sure that people who already owned the dog, cat etc. got some new high quality figures. And on top of all that we offered a coupon/voucher that could potentially save more money than was actually spent in purchasing the whole package in the beginning. After the deal was released there were complaints that we weren't going to offer an upgrade for Bryce 5.5 so I made a statement saying that we will offer some special deal for previous owners of Bryce. There were complaints about the coupon (not enough DAZ originals to choose from) so we switched it vouchers (good towards our portion on all products) and offered people who still preferred the coupon over the voucher to contact us directly and we will change it back for them. Please understand that the confusion was not caused because DAZ doesn't listen to it's customers but more because we do. From my opinion, DAZ listens to its customers more than any other company that I know of. aeilkema, we are going to release the M3/V3 RR figures separetely as you stated and they are coming out at $39.95 because that is what they are worth. You mentioned that full figures are priced the same. That is incorrect, the full-figure base is priced at $39.95 but the RR models contain the majority of the morphs found in the head and body add-ons. With that being said the main reason that we are pricing the figures at the $39.95 each is because they are worth it. People can still spent $29.95 and get both of them plus other models that they may or may not already have buy purchasing the content starter kit. We just dont want that value over looked. I apologize if this post has come across as snappy, that was not intended. I just want to say that DAZ does listen intensely to our customers. We do make mistakes, but we do our best to remedy those mistakes when we are aware of them. Most of all, I want to thank our customers for allowing us to go to work and do the things that we love to do. Sincerely, Dan Farr P.S. Due to the confusing nature of this offer, we are discussing the possibility of discontinuing in the very near future.

Dan, I appreciate your taking the time to respond. Your special offer was confusing from the Start. First, I very much dislike the need to leave a web site and read an Adobe Acrobat file. I read the document over and over, and found it confusing. I went back to the DAZ site, and read the product descriptions, hoping for clarification. The product descriptions were unclear, and kept referring back to the Adobe Acrobat document. Obviously, I'm not the only one who found everything confusing. On to the Reduced Resolution figures. Why not state their quality or place more clearly? They are really best meant for a crowd scene, and not a direct replacement for the "regular" figures. That doesn't mean they're bad products. We just need to see a clearer explanation. The offer did sound intriguing, even with the confusion. But in the end, it's mostly about Bryce. I don't need Bryce at this time, and if I did, I'd prefer to wait and see what the "first DAZ version of Bryce" looks like.

Bobbie, I hope that my explanation of things did not come across as a denial that the offering was complicated. I admit that it was complicated (and still is for many). As I stated above, due to the complicated nature, this promotion will likely end much sooner than it would have if it were easier for us to explain it. Dan Farr President, DAZ Productions.

Dan, I'm sorry about the M3/V3 RR pricing issue I've caused. With the new information, I do stand corrected, didn't know that.... forgive my lack of knowledge. Anyway I'm glad I did purchase them with the bundle deal, saves quite some money. Haven't really used them yet, since I'm still waiting for the Poser bundle to come.

aeilkema, Please don't worry about it. As was pointed out earlier, had we been clearer from the beginning then there would not have been the confusion. We are working on the Poser versions and since we are working to set up P5 materials with them it will likely take us a little longer to get them up. Dan Farr

Dan, DAZ3D has always treated me well, and you remain "Number one," in my books concerning product, reliability, and Customer Service. I hope many people buy and enjoy the bundles.

Maybe DAZ should beta test their offers :P

'Maybe DAZ should beta test their offers' dan, If you read this, please check my thread in the DAZ broker forum. mac

We are working on the Poser versions and since we are working to set up P5 materials with them it will likely take us a little longer to get them up.

Whoa! Actual P5 materials??? I will definitely be buying the upgrade bundle, then.

I have to jump in here to say I totally agree that DAZ has, especially lately, been very open to suggestions from their customers. And though you hear mostly griping, many of us DO appreciate that fact. Thank you to Dan and staff for your being so open and accommodating to our feedback. Tim

Dan, Thanks for reading this thread. Up front, I've NEVER had a complaint or problem with your Customer Service dept. Always very helpful, responsive and friendly. And for the most part I've been thrilled with my purchases. Usually the stuff that hasn't worked for me has been because I don't yet have the knowledge needed to use it correctly.

That being said, I do read a lot of complaints on a lot of boards about DAZ in regards to methods and operations, and I think this latest "bundle bungle" is endemic of that. I know you have to be doing market research, but rather that trying to please "all the people all the time," as it seems you've tried to do, focus more on "most of the people most of the time," realizing that no matter what, someone's going to be upset. Rather than coming up with all this New Fangled stuff, concentrate on what's popular and support that and throw in the new stuff, whether its a bundle or an entirely new product, now and then. Things can get out of hand very quickly otherwise.

Again, thanks for listening, and thanks for the great things you do produce.