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Bryce F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 08 7:02 am)
Subject: The tolerance border is crossed really!
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Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=107&Form.ShowMessage=2026545
Hey we have been there, done that, got the teeshirt. (see link)Please don't start again.
Don't feel ashamed to have a hot20 entry.....just go vote for some other images, only way to stop this. Peace friend!
Message edited on: 12/05/2004 04:59
The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."
Well... At Least you guys have made it to the Hot20... I havent made it there in a Year or so I think and I went from a thousand Views down to Hundreds if I am lucky and at best a few Comments...Do I care...NOT really because it doesnt Matter....Will I ever make it to the Hot20 again...WHO cares... Has Anyone thought that these could very well be KIDS....KIDS uploading their ART that they think is awesome,And here we have FOLKS going OFF and IM'ing these folks to say THEY think that the WORK of others is CRAP...Bottom line is ...WHO are we to judge someone else's ART...Maybe they just started... Or Maybe These Folks OWN MAX or MAYA or LIGHTWAVE and do this on Purpose just to see us get so Pissed.....?
Yes alright we have been through all that before, hence ref to last thread. If they are kidz, then fairdooz, but they are doing it again. They seem to think its funny to hijack. They have loadsa names that they can use (ie. clone account). I have no problems with people who have their own idea of art, it happens. Stuffed sheep and all the rest of the crap that gets awards in UK. But all of a sudden we have a situation wherebye the art that most people can see as art makes it up the hot 20 ( and I think we are by far the majority in the bryce world), then all of a sudden a certain image gets all the votes, and not from Brycers. I am not saying this because I have made the 20,because I am surprised that I have made it this far, but because I can see we have a certain element here (have they been chucked out of the poser forum, I ask) who have decided to hijack what to us real brycers is the holy grail. Ok I have had my rant...waiting for the mods to ban me!
The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."
the last time I looked this site is for everybody that wish to post not the pros but people just wish to have a good time and it a hobby to them. So why you think just the best should post. Think of it as a ice box some kids is posting they art work on. why They do this? because it fun . you all take things too hard and forgot why you join . bet most join to have fun and most of you was and is no pro.[not putting no one down here a pro make money on they art and to just live on the money from they art] but you here to have fun just think of it that way. and for the vote button I not going to dis able it you can But I will not just think about it that makes no cents to me
what you see is not what you know; it in your face
I'm just curious about something. I'm not at all trying to offend anyone here really. But, I understand to a point some of the arguments some of you are having with some of the images in the Bryce H20. But, I noticed it's the same group of people that have a real problem with the image that Jocko posted and got in the top 20. What I would like to know is why these people feel thier work is any better than Jockos, and what gives them the artistic authority to complain about what is good Bryce, and bad Bryce. I looked at some of your galleries of the ones in this thread, and while you have the right to post your images in the style you see fit, I would have to say that most of what I have seen I could do in 10 minutes blindfolded, and probably do better. Most of it is Unrefined with a lack of detail. The compositions are way off balance. The lighting in most instances is atrocious. And a huge majority of the time most of the texturing is nothing more than bryce presets. I mean really, All I wanna know is why some of you, and you should know which ones I'm talking about feel his image is worse than the stuff you guys post? I realize it's really not nice of me to sit here and point out all of your flaws, but Is it really fair to be so harsh on Jockos or anyone elses images that get posted in the top 20. Do you guys think Rochr, or Flak, or Beton, or sbleci, or any number of Bryce masters think it's fair to see any of your works in the top 20 when they obviously can do a superior job... I really just think it's time to drop this whole issue, stop treating each other disrespectfully, and start helping each other grow. That's just my 2 cents worth. With that being said, I really do enjoy seeing everyone of your works of art, no matter what your style may be and I hope you'll afford other people no matter what thier level of experience is the same respect.
Ok Jocko. I can to a certain extent understand where you are coming from.
Me, well I admit to being nearer 60 than 16, much nearer. I am not ashamed about that. I have been working on my art for a good few years now, and my CG art since I first got bryce2.
I have made money from my real life art, but only a wee bit from CG. Go figure. I have been a member of rend for a good few years now, and yet this is the first time I have ever made the bryce hot 20, and I am proud of the image that has made it. It took me a lot of hours to get it right.
I still feel that the bryce hot 20 is something to achieve, without a fan club of clone accounts. OK!
I don't often take part in any of these sort of threads, I prefer to stay in the background, but there are times when one has to make a point. Posting an image is one thing, getting people to vote for you is something else. My votes are unsolicited and genuine.
I also admit that today is Sunday (in the UK anyway) the only day I drink anything stronger than coffee. So it could be that which has made me step out of my normal line. Hythshade, this reply could answer a few of you remarks as well, I felt they were demeaning to my art. (this remark on an edit)
Message edited on: 12/05/2004 13:58
The greatest part of wisdom is learning to develop the ineffable genius of extracting the "neither here nor there" out of any situation...."
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=107&Form.ShowMessage=2031695
Please...___
Ockham's razor- It's that simple
I'm am sure most knew I would come in here and comment on this topic..lol.
I will keep it short.
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For those that claim making it into the h20 doesn't matter at all. Then I think you are in the minority. My reasoning? In just the last couple weeks here there have been threads by people who have had their images make the h20. Glowing about how happy they are they have made it. And rightly so. I would LOVE for the H20 here to be a place where once an atists work made it, they could be PROUD of that accomplishemt. (right now. it seems for many, it is not an honest accomplishment, but a right they seem to have by a core group of voters that vote no matter the image)
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As for what Hythshade mentioned about us helping each other instead of bashing. I think the problem is that many around here Hyth dont want help. They dont want to grow. And why should they? They post images that do appear, as you stated, took 10 minutes to make, yet not only get in the h20, but get like 30 comments. They have no desire (from what i have witnessed here in 2 years) to grow artistically. They keep turning out the same art, made with the same formula over and over with little show of advancement.
You can't help the unwilling...
-B PS, Congrats Chohole ;-)
Message edited on: 12/05/2004 14:28
Hold on a minute...I'll use just the names you mention. Do you really believe the the work of jocko, not to mention one or two others who have shown up there lately (Who I will not mention by name because you did not),is on par with the work of Beton or Rochr or Flak? I'll give him props for his work, even given that I don't particularly like it, but he does...so he posts it. Perfect, that's what we're here for!!! He may not like my stuff either. But, in my mind the Hot20 is for pieces that it would take some time to be able to imitate, that push the limits, that make you stop and wonder, wow, how'd they do that. Not something that evokes a response of , ooooprettycolors. That is my opnion. Some of the comments made on either side may have been truly over the top inflamatory and thus probably out of line but that is no reason to slam back. "They started it" should have gone out in about 3rd grade. For my money I'll continue to try to get my efforts on par with beton, rochr, flak et al.and maybe someday one of my works will end up in the Hot20. Am I jealous of some of what I see there now? No. Do I undrestand how it meets the criteria to be there? No. Do I have any desire to produce anything similar in style or technical "merit"? No. But then maybe those who vote as they do hold to a different ideal for what belongs there. There are no clear "rules" for what is worthy and what is not in terms of this list. Until there are we should just each vote as we see fit, truly judging each work of art, not voting just to get back at anyone else. (puts his soapbox away and goes to play video games with his kids)
as far as I know my votes are also unsolicited I ask no one to vote and my famiely do not vote on them for it be unfair. like I say one time I do not get in the hot 20 all the time. I posted a poser image and I was shock when it got 25 vots and made it in the hot 20 there. I thought no one was going to look at it or vote on it for sure. "diff or lonely" is the image I talking about. I saw people I never heard of come and comment on it. I doing my best with the knowledge I have. I learning but dont have time to learn like I would like too. Plus I doing so much I in every thing around ren I know many people donot move out of bryce and post in photos or 2d or poser or mixed mediam But what I know and understand I do it the best I can sorry I do not measure up to what you think is art. I too chao for that my mind is going a 100 miles an hour on many things I like to do some painting with real paint and brushes now today. I just a handyman of many things and a master of none. yes I do have freinds that look all the time but they votes I ask not and donot get all the time so why pick on me many times I think "this one is going to be number one in the hot 20 for I work on it hard and render it for five hours not counding the time of putting it together " and it do not get in the hot20 at all. other times i say " no one going to look at this one" and that the one that makes the hot 20. Why is this it human nature they vote on what they like I guess
what you see is not what you know; it in your face
I got into a dialog with LFN Forever recently after I posted a comment on one of her pics in the gallery. It didnt get nasty, I simply pointed out that people on the forum should have the right to criticise work posted. Anyway, she gave me the addy of her web site and it seems she has about a dozen sites/forums/galleries covering various interestd and so has contact with a lot of people who we would not come into contact with. These are the people who are voting her work into the Hot 20 for the simple reason, they like it. And once theyve signed up youve got to accept that they can. It rankles a little that she seems to be using Rosity simply as a remote gallery and plays no part in the community but thats how it works.
Thought Id post this to let you know how at least one poster who has been the subject of this debate manages to get so many votes. Its not clone accounts, it`s working the system.
@ Hythshade !!! :) When you start (if you did not already) get instant messages which basicly say: "What's up with you, my dear Kemal, I just uploaded another image, are you sick, or something ???" ...from ppl who expect from you to comment on their images and vote 4 it on regular bases, PLASE let me know !!! I KIND OF GOT SICK OF THOSE ! :D Second thing, just becouse couple of ppl are upset about it does not mean that lot of other peple are not, they just do not bother posting about it, I am the "bad apple" too, I just got tired of it, I cannot simply look in someones face and lie to them about their "art" !!! If I did not like what you do, I would tell you honestly !!! (not any more) Work in question is not even worth my negative comment, but hey, if some wonna call it an art, I let them (it is subjective , indeed), but know that Renderosity is the place for art like this after all, that's why begginer section was open after all ! :D
Really I think you are taking what I said out of context. Yes it is perfectly okay to "not" like someones art. It's okay to say "respectfully" I think you could have done better, and this is why... Those are ways of giving constructive criticism. If you read my post earlier you seen that I said " I understand some of the concerns about the voting system" My comments weren't about that. They were about how some people have been down right mean when giving thier criticisms to a specific persons work of art...That's all I was commenting on. And how some of those "few" people really weren't making any art that was any better than the works they were sending "hate" messages about. I just feel there's a right way, and a wrong way to voice your opinions and concerns. Why is that so wrong? And responding to your concerns in a negative hate mongering way, is not gonna get anything resolved because you won't be listened to the way you would have been if you were being respectful. Peace, Michael
Trolling for votes, now that is really sad. It's even worse than having your friends/family or croonies voting, or sinking so low in setting up clone-accounts. And don't come with this bullshit that it is art and that the votes are honest, because they aren't. I rather have only 4 votes and not make into the Hot-20, because then i at least know that those votes where honest.
Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.
as for robertj why you find this strange every big artist plus your busness you in doing this You voted for a prisz I guess Bush Or Kerry. I know of a local artist here he spends alot of his time out doing showmanship things to get his name out he havd $30mil. but his wife took havle when he kick her iout so now he just $15 mil now all big artists that made it big in they live time when they was alive was showmanship. What is wong with that?
what you see is not what you know; it in your face
Claymor that what the russians had and many other goverments have. your work may not make it in some of those goverments . they had movements that deface Davil and the other old masters because they showed a penis that is what you be setting up. At fist no but then it will get to that
what you see is not what you know; it in your face
Unless you can prove actual fraud, how can you complain about the results of a voting process that is open to everyone? Contrary to popular belief, democracy does not always produce the "best" or "fairest" result - just the most popular one. Great art can be popular, but popular art isn't necessarily great (otherwise, why would Thomas Kinkade be a multi-millionaire while Van Gogh died penniless?). Which is why I don't support the concept of voting for art on Renderosity. I often comment on art, but I have never voted for anyone's art (no matter how magnificent I thought it was), I have never solicited anyone's vote, & I have never commented favorably on anyone's art just because they happened to comment favorably on mine. IMHO, reducing art to a political contest is contrary to the spirit of creativity & individuality that art should be about & just encourages conformity & blandness. OK, I'm stepping off my soapbox now...
"Every child is an artist.
The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up."
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Picasso
Which is exactly in my opinion the process wich is happening in the Hot-20 (and more or less in the galleries as well) at the moment, "conformity & blandness"
Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.
art thought out the centuries was destroy becaus some one say it was evil. most art here at rend would be destroy by the Muslems. why because they dono0t beleive any any should be made to repersent any thing on earth . the Fractal gallery will be held up as art and would not be destroy by them
what you see is not what you know; it in your face
The Bryce Hot 20 is embarrasing for me to look at. I haven't posted any pictures in my gallery yet because I want to practice until I'm as good as the regulars. But even I can do much more then a water terrain, mountains with funky presets, and rainbow spheres. I understand that people express their art differently, and that subtleties that mean nothing to something can mean everything to the creator, but all I've seen is sh** for the sake of that. Now, I think lots of the Hot 20 is gorgeous. Many people can do amazing things with Bryce... but I think everyone knows what kind of pictures I'm talking about.
Claymor.. I hear ya on the issue of disableing the vote button. It will change the h20 in 2 ways though. 1 as Doug said, it will then be a choice for the artist. I personally feel the voting system is a sham and is comepletely screwed up. I dont want to be involved in it If I had the choice. 2. Right now, this core group that continues to vote each other in can do so and then point to the other great art around them in the h20 and feel grand over their accomplishment (even if it was skewed reasons that they got it there). If there was nothing BUT this core group in the h20 because many other artists disabled the vote. This group would have it all to themselves and it would really not be a big deal after a while to them. They are always in there.. in my jaded view, I say let them have it all. I truely appreciate when one of my pics makes the h20. But to be honest. to have it below or next to some of this other groups work (the colorful crowd), it makes me wonder what the point of the whole thing is? I understand many dont get the disabled vote button idea. For me, I just like the thought that I can have a choice to pull my images out of a running that I see as a pitiful joke of ethics. just my $0.02
Jocko... No one is suggesting destroying art, or banning art because they dont like it. What I am suggesting is the oppertunity for everyone to have the choice in making a vote button disabled on their own work. Surely you can't disagree with that! Can you?
After all, we already have the choice to disable comments and ratings. Why are we FORCED to be part of one of the most abused and dishonest features (imo) at R? The H20?
Message edited on: 12/05/2004 19:35
can somebody please tell me where i can see this hot 20's my curiosity has been awaken by all this chattering lol
for
some free stuff i made
and
for almost daily fotos
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=827869&Start=1&Sectionid=2&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNe
Well guys here you have it, my new form of art work. C&Cs welcome and of course your votes :)
....where people with awesome abilities get worked up over this subject and leave. That just breaks my heart.
Let me say this much:
The Hot20 is a place where art is displayed which has been voted on. For some, the entirety of their use of this community may revolve around that one page. Having said that, it is also a small link at the top of this page. I repeat: IT IS A SMALL LINK AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE! Go to the main Bryce forum page and look around. Can't you see at least 150 other links on that same page? Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of links to pages of posts that have been archived. And that is ONE forum. There are 69 other forums, not to mention a graffitti wall. Have any of you ever really considered how VAST this community IS?! So a few members whom we seldom, if ever, see on this forum decide to feed their own egos with clone accounts and a core group of voters. (an opinion, by the by, that several have stated but which I have yet to see proven)
Let them.
I care a lot more about this forum and, more importantly, the people on it than about one little page.
MM.. you really did miss the whole point. This issue is carried over from more than 1 thread. Thanks for your input, but you have kind of sidetracked here.
As for all the other links.. Who cares??? I am pretty sure Poser artists care about their h20, Terragen artists care about their H20, etc. And I am willing to put $ down that Terragen artists are not in the Bryce Gal as much as their own. (and the others etc.)
I understand your point, I just dont think you understod the topic.
Message edited on: 12/05/2004 23:02
Hello, am new here. What is so special about the HOT 20? Do you get a prize or somethig? I do this for fun myself and came here cos this looks like an awesome community. Voting always leads to cheating. And that is why I probably won't bother competing for top anything. Art is art no matter how you look at it. No point in getting upset over voting. Members will always work their friends into it and vote multiple times on the same images. I avoid voting at all costs. It always ends up the same people tend to get uppity very easily when one image gets the most votes for one reason or another. Honesty is hard to come by these days. Been there, done that. ;=)
My 2 cents worth. If there is cheating going on than it is up to the admins to stop it.
Message edited on: 12/06/2004 04:04
err. you can't vote multiple times for the same image unless you are using clone-accounts. The point is, how do people get those votes in the first place? Is it because they work hard and make the best of it and that others sincerely admire the works on display? Or is it that some have friends and use methods in getting votes that are questionable.
Robert van der Veeke Basugasubasubasu Basugasubakuhaku Gasubakuhakuhaku!! "Better is the enemy of good enough." Dr. Mikoyan of the Mikoyan Gurevich Design Bureau.
I just gotta chime in. Finally, I'm reading some real opinions and not just the usual saccarine comments. Gotta admit, not a big fan of Jocko's art. I find it woefully unappealing. But that's because it clashes with my aesthetic sensibilities and not because I think its bad art. But he still has a right to post. How it gets on the Hot20, not a clue. But then I'm even more dumb-founded how Bush got reelected. So $#*! happens. So here's my philosophy in a nutshell. Don't ask a question you're not prepared to hear the answer to. And don't post artwork you're not prepared to have praised or trashed. Art does do one thing very well though. It gets people talking, and I think that's the point.
<strong>bandolin</strong><br />
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So sorry! But:
The tolerance border is crossed really!
"xyzforalways" is a pain in the (bryce) gallery (ies). The minimal supposition of a beginner, ... distant fallen short of ...
This is unbelievable. How can anyone do such images?
To do something like this, the person must reset the simplest standard program configurations. Oh god, is this the new way of art? I am horrified! A member, since 07/2003, do such images with bryce...
Oh yes, my comment is very bad and nothing is to forgive, i know!
I'm tolerant, but for this member, the frontier is final reached! I could accept postings in a pre, pre-beginners gallery. But in the given, oh god...
Damn me, but i must this say!
Meantime i feel shame, if i have an image in the h20.
Th.L.