Can we please have our art gallery back?
Every night I spend my free time scrolling (not looking atmost) hundreds of images only to comment on two or three pieces of art. What happened to the good ole days? Before I was a member when I used to visit Renderosity and be amazed at the images I saw. When people used Poser or any other 3D program as a tool for art.
Its like a painter using an airbrush. He or she just doesnt spray spots because thats what airbrush does. They make their art come to life with the tool.
So why do some poser users just render images of nude V3 and post them as art. Its the same as a penciler scratching some lines because he or she knows how to use a pencil and calling it art.
Renerositys art gallery is an ART GALLERY. Be original. Why would someone want to see the same fairy or naked poser model over and over? Think before you post. Are you an artist or just a poser user? I think its hurting our art gallery. Are we to suffer the same fate as Elfwood and Deviant Art? We are members of this site. We can make a difference.

Ok then, who decides what is art and what is not?

It's the same old totally boring question...

If pouring colors into the exhaust of a jet engine and have it splatter over a big paper, then cut it into smaller pieces and then sell them for $1000 each can be called art then anything can be art.

Actually, if the right person do scratch a little with the pencil it is considered to be art, even if a two year old or a monkey would do it better.

And by the way, what's wrong with just having fun...

Message edited on: 12/15/2004 07:39

Are we to suffer the same fate as Elfwood and Deviant Art? What was the fate of Elfwood and Deviant Art?

Well.... it's like this. My pics aren't brilliant, I'm no artist and I couldn't tell you a rembrandt from a constable... well ok i could but that's not the point. Anyway, I like what i do. I can spend hours, even days composing a pic, and when I'm done I'm proud of it, and i want to show it off.... It's called a hobby. Jack

Oh yeh, i forgot to add..... grrr! Jack

Why is it like this?

Because the Nude Vicky In A Temple With A Sword (NVIATWAS) posters were so ridiculed for the repetative theme, they started doing other works.. like..

NVIATWOAS (WithOut a Sword)
AVIATWAS (Armored Vicky)
NVNIATWAS (Not in a temple)
and so forth.

The fact that 1 in every 4 (or more) images in the gallery at any given time of day are likely to be nude renditions of Victoria or Stephanie3P, is pretty sad considering the range of capabilities Poser has.

As to it being art... well that's dangerous ground. Personally, I don't see anything that is repeated (by the same person anyway) as art. If you can't come up with something other than a Nude Vicky after 3 or 4 renders.... Editing to add.. It has been improving of late. Some days you can get an entire page with only 1 or 2 of these on it. :) Let us hope its a trend.

Message edited on: 12/15/2004 10:34

I didn't realize the nude fairy sites were suffering. Their organizers broke off from here several years ago, after an acrimonious debate, precisely because they enjoy looking at nude fairies, which are a TOS violation here, because it exposes the site to charges of pandering to pedophiles.

Elfwood and Deviant Art are "nude fairy" sites? And they are offshoots of Renderosity??

Is there some kind of acronym for Naked V3 or SP in or out of a temple with or without a sword but with ridiculously large and anatomically impossible breasts? Looking at these pictures makes my own breasts hurt. I don't like to judge other peoples art/hobby whatever, but when it's just huge boob women over and over, in a variety of degrading poses - that's tiresome. And those are the ones with tons of comments like "Awesome render!" "Great character!" "Wonderful piece!" ??? Not to mention the naked preteen that I saw today. Since you don't know the artists intentions there, it's really not fair to judge I guess. But it made me uncomfortable. Anyway, I haven't been posting here long (and I am not against a little nudity!) but I understand people's points. If there were fewer gallery subcategories under Poser or one that included "borderline child porn" or "hugely oversized mammary glands" it might be easier for the rest of us to filter :-)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=834646&Hot=Y&Sectionid=1

True there are a lot of nudes, but there are also a lot of wonderfully creative images too. Check out this link as an example.

Nude faeries are no childporn at least not over here where I live! As long as my 11 year old daughter looks at them and says they are beautiful I think there is nothing wrong. Maybe she looks at them with an open mind and most important with an innocent mind that only sees the beauty and not connects it with something only a certain type of so called grown ups see!

That is a nice image, Rockets. I love the classic, painterly feel of it. Doesn't even look like digital art.

You can simply check that you don't want to see any nudes, and that's it. Yes, it's difficult to find what you like because there are so many works posted. To have a quick glance through the thumbs and here and there look at a new work takes more than an hour daily. Most people buy items and then use them. R. is a full grown commercial site. No sellings, no galleries. Or would you prefer a pay site? Me, I browse by thumbnails, and if I find something I really like of someone I don't know, I visit the gallery. When I like it, I bookmark it. I do wonder why it's always a bit of nude skin that seems to shock people. The main reason for nudes is triple: 1/ it's much easier than clothes, and 2/ it is, because still seen as a direct road to perversity, mental illness and hell itself, an act of individualism and last but not least, it is the basic drive of life. As long as men like women more that wargames, there is still a very little hope for humanity. Don't forget that sexual frustration is the best way to create good ol' aggressivity, which, in turn, makes good army dreamers. Poser allows many people to act out a psychological state (and there are many healthy and creative states also!). People are over exposed to unhealthy doses of violence, stress, anxiety, depression, unfairness, lies, so it is fully normal that their creations are coloured by that. It's very positive and healing that they can express that. Even if it is not what I like. So ok to impossible breasts as long as I can choose not to click that thumbnail. Same for sadism, fetish, violence, pics of grandchildren, dogs and cats, patriotism, publicity, depression. I choose my what I like and the rest are simply temporal combinations of electronic fields and waves.

Here in the UK the law can get nasty over any indecent image that looks like a child. So the fairies are dangerous. I've made my comment on Vicky-in-a-temple in the form of art, rather than in words.

We are members of this site. We can make a difference. Not really. Not if your opinions or requests are in disagreement with the PTB.

OK, I'm offended by this... Nude Vicky complaints are supposed to start one week after the Hot 20 complaints, and a week before the gallery comments complaints... Come on people, this rhythm has been going for years, now, why does it have to be broken by the nude Vicky one starting almost 2 weeks after the Hot 20 one and someone trying to get the gallery comments one going at the same time as Hot 20?

I must be looking at different gallaries because I see a lot of originality here, granted there are some images which aren't master pieces but that's the way it goes. I'm also curious as to when devArt went down the pan - I'm looking at the site right now and don't see anything indicating that it's full of naked faries. You entitled to your opinion but who are you to tell us what we should and should not post? So long as we stick to the TOS we're free to post what we want.

Well, if you're going to be like that. Mortlake. (American players should remember that the Berners-Lee Convention is applicable, and thus the Foxdale Effect is adjudicated according to GMT.)

Representatives of the Local Nekkid Vickies union, the Fairies Union, and the Dead Horses Union have come together to discuss defamation, and dead animals cruelty issues. They may be joint by the Cheesy Pin-up and Fantasy Artist League. These people feel that there basic civil liberties have been threaten. :oP

Well personally I hated it when the Catholic church said it was okay to eat meat on Fridays after all those years of eating fish (and I'm not even Catholic)! LOL Uh, where did that come from?

Why is it that people who would never expect the rest of the world to share their taste in politics, religion or food keep insisting that everyone share their views on something as subjective as art? The very notion that this is an uppercase "art gallery" is probably wide of the mark to begin with. Many of the people who post images probably don't consider themselves anything more than hobbyists enjoying and sharing their hobby. Poser is (apparently to the regret of some) a democratic medium that allows anyone the freedom to express themselves in a way that pleases them. It pleases some of them to call it art and themselves artists. If you agree, fine. If not, keep hitting the little button until you find something you like. If it's just too painful to watch the visual chaos that such freedom is bound to produce then surely in the whole world wide web, there are sites filtered and sanitized for the protection of more discriminating tastes. As Don Rumsfeld said, "Freedom's untidy." And now, having actually quoted Don Rumsfeld, I'm going to go and slit my wrists.

Oh crap, another victim to an unintentional Rumsfeld quote. That's four people I know, this week alone. I think everyone's comments are valid. It's tiresome to see big naked vicki boobs, and it's my responsibility to keep on clicking. It's hard online (or offline) to find a group of people who exactly mirror your idea of the way the world ought to be. And who would want that anyway?

"That's four people I know, this week alone." Oh my God, I'm sorry sflayer. That's so funny. You see, you can't be original even if you try. Actually, it's not funny, it's scary. Please tell me the "sf" doesn't mean San Francisco. If people in the beautiful, tranquil City by the Bay are quoting Rummy, there's no hope*.

AT any rate, yeah, you have to take the good with the bad with the merely mediocre. And sometimes you even discover that you like broccoli. "Henny Penny, the sky is falling..." -Rummy :-)

Message edited on: 12/15/2004 17:36

Take a step back and think about the content in the galleries and rationale behind it .. not with your artist's or moralist's hat on, but from a technical point of view. What's happened really quite recently is that we now have the ability to render very realistic skin. Remember the first time you hit Render and a 'close to photo realistic' picture emerged? Course you do. It's an amazing experience. Well, lots of people are discovering the same thing every day. We're all creative folk here, and part of the mind-set of the creative individual is to share such moments of revelation. And where better to share than with other like-minded people in a (relatively) open-minded and liberal place like here? As lighting and render engines become more sophisticated you'll continue to see lots of naked pictures. Eventually, when true photo-realism is the norm, I predict there will be a greater emphasis on artistic content rather than technical wizardry. But that's probably 5 or 10 years off. We're all on a learning curve here. btw .. don't bash the fae (naked or otherwise). They make the world go round ..for some of us, anyway. They are into peace and love and sharing and nature. Good, healthy HAPPY things. I would humbly suggest these are things the world needs more, not less, of.

Oh no. My name would be really cheeky if it was "sf layer" wouldn't it? It's just a boring combo of my first and last names. And where I live, people quoting Rummy would be serious. Wait, people where I live don't know who he is. They are at the mall getting their mullets shorn for the big truck pull coming up. That would be a good one. Naked V3 at a truck pull, with a can of Bud. Actually, that's probably around here somewhere.

What is it with this DIGITAL crap, anyway? Computers can't make art! When I was a student we had to do our images the old fashoned way, with pencils and paper! We didn't have any of these newfangled computers to help us, oh no! When we cut and pasted we REALLY cut and pasted! You kids today, with your point and click art, it's just DISGUSTING! You call that ART?! (Note for the Sarcastically Disadvantaged: The above is sarcasm, also known as the lowest form of wit ;-) bonni

I would say that a lot of people try to use the best features of a software package. Vue users often make landscapes with a lot of trees and flowers and Poser users often make humans or animals, because Poser is very good at that. You get Vicky out of the box with great textures and you do not have to think a lot to render her. Don't get me wrong. You see wonderful nude art here. There are some very good artists around dedicated to pin-ups which reach almost Vargas quality. I'm against any restrictions, besides child pornography (which is disgusting) and other things that are forbidden by law (which country?) or TOS. To get the best in the gallery, you have to accept the crap. You see the thumbs and you get a list of favourite artists in time. It's like in real life. Go to an art gallery and you will also find a lot of things you don't like and these pictures are already preselected. Here everyone can show his work and if you don't like it, others will do. - Singular3D

Attached Link: You can get the comic book of the Battle here

***You can simply check that you don't want to see any nudes*** It is truly amazing how many ppl can't seem to exercise their freedom of choice and customize the settings in their profile to get the view they want. Even when it's pointed out to them step by step how to change their profile when the complaint was about the way the thumbnails were cropped. I suppose it's that they'll still how the thought eating at them that others are still able to see them and they have to force their opinions on them. ***Representatives of the Local Nekkid Vickies union, the Fairies Union, and the Dead Horses Union have come together to discuss defamation, and dead animals cruelty issues. They may be joint by the Cheesy Pin-up and Fantasy Artist League. These people feel that there basic civil liberties have been threaten.*** If the LNVU, the FU, the DHU, and the CP-FAL boycott here it might help but I don't think they'll be enough so I'd have The Nude Female League send in the super heros and the Panty Bandit! You can take a look at the web page to see the job they did last time http://argon.glittzzzy.topcities.com/web/pan/prudes.htm You can also get the comic book of it printed If you study the history of art, you'll find very few things nowadays are completely "original" almost every theme has been done thousands of times. Does it make it any less art? Reubens did a lot of nudes in a row, did it make him less of an artist? The point is that each artist brings his own interpretation to the theme and represents it differently and that's what makes it original, even from image to image they're rarely the same only similar elements and style treated differently. ***OK, I'm offended by this... Nude Vicky complaints are supposed to start one week after the Hot 20 complaints, and a week before the gallery comments complaints... Come on people, this rhythm has been going for years, now, why does it have to be broken by the nude Vicky one starting almost 2 weeks after the Hot 20 one and someone trying to get the gallery comments one going at the same time as Hot 20?*** You would think as many times as these threads have been going that ppl would learn the rhythm. Some ppl have been missing their cues! Heads will roll! Get a back on the pace!

To be fair...lots of people don't use the nudity flag. They just forget. Someone once suggested that the nudity flag be on by default, and if your image doesn't have nudity, you have to check a little box.

No it's that lots of ppl don't have it set in their profile. After that was suggested when the complaints about the thumbnails surfaced I reset mine and checked it out. In 15 pages I checked I didn't find any with nudity in them, the mods do check for that as part of their gallery sweeps and reset anything that have been neglected. The trouble is that it take 2 parts to be used correctly. It doesn't do any good to have the nudity flag set in the image if the profile isn't set to the way you want it. we now return you to your regularly sheduled rant Hopefully the choreography will get better wink

The mods do fix it, but I think they are more likely to be around to fix it during the evenings. It's usually the people who are surfing at work who complain about the nudity flags not being checked. There are often very few mods around during the day.

I know just reading this forum that people forget to set the nudity flag a lot. I've done it myself. Heck, I remember at least one thread where the mod uploaded a naked Vicky, and forgot to check the nudity flag. If nudity is no big deal to you, you tend not to notice that these are nekkid pixels you're uploading, not clothed ones.

It must be an error very few and far between if it didn't show up in 15 pages of the gallery, that's at least 270 images. And how many were they complaining about? Hundreds? There certainly can't be that many errors in the nudity flag. It's a lot more likely that they want to enforce the kinds of pics that are uploaded instead of the way they are viewed isn't it?

No, I really don't think so. Some of the people complaining have no problem with nudity at all. They post it themselves. They let their children look at it, if they want to. But at work, they are not allowed to have images like that on their screens. So they set their nudity flags at work, and remove them when they get home. And complain it seems to make little difference. One of the mods was complaining recently that she had just fixed dozens of nudity flags. Perhaps you just happened to go through after a sweep?

In any case, I don't think this thread is really about nudity, despite the title. I suspect what's really bugging this person is cliched art - fairies and NVIATWAS. If everyone started posting portraits of Elvis or pictures of cute big-eyed children, they'd probably be equally annoyed.

And I still want to know what happened to Elfwood and Deviant Art.

Then try resetting your profile yourself to check and make your own judgement on how well it works when used correctly, better than relying on hearsay, I'd wager. I wonder whether he'd call the impressionists, cubists, and surrealists cliche because they did the same style of art? I've seen plenty of cute big eyed children posted and most of them were anime does that make them less valid? There are lots of ppl with different styles and varying levels of skill posting images. Since they have set up genres does that mean that Fabtasy, Pin-up's or Sci-fi are cliche just because they are popular themes? Just because Boris Vallejo, Olivia DeBaradini and Frank Franzetta have done most of those themes does that make anything else done after them cliches? I'd like to know what Oceanlord23 thinks happened to Elfwood and Deviant Art are too since I haven't noticed anything amiss at Deviant Art, but I don't think I've been to Elfwood.

I did check it once, while at was at my office. All I can say is that I'm glad my desk is positioned so no one can see my screen. :-) But perhaps they're cracking down now. Oceanlord seems to be in mourning for the way Rosity used to be. Maybe it was more "artsy" back then? I haven't been here that long. To me, Rosity's always been like this.

No wonder they're shipping all our jobs to China. I doubt the wage slaves over there have the luxury of surfing the internet at work. It irks me to come down on the side of the suits but even on your "own time," you're still using the company's resources. Even if the company allows you to surf during your lunch hour, if nudity is against their policy then you're better off sticking to news, sports and email rather than visiting any art site. No system of flags and patrols is going to eliminate the occasional slip up. Knowing that, why not wait 'til get you home to be on the safe side and rather than complaining every time it happens and expecting the entire world to be tailored to your desires. If not being able to visit Renderosity at work is such a burden, quit your job and do it full time. There are plenty of people who would be grateful just to have a job these days.

A lot of people prefer to surf from work because they have broadband at work, and only dial-up at home. If they have any Internet access at all at home. Heck, if they ever get to go home. ;-) The biggest online shopping day of the year isn't "black Friday," it's the Monday following. When everyone gets back to work. I remember when eBay first started, savvy sellers timed their auctions so that they ended during the evenings or weekends, because that's when people were online. Now they time them to end during the weekday, when people are in the office. (These people aren't necessarily ripping off their employers. A lot of offices would rather you buy your Christmas gifts online at the office, rather than leave early (or on time) to go shopping. My office used to bring a postal truck around during December. It would park out back, so people could mail personal stuff without leaving the office. They don't do that any more, because everyone's shopping online.)

Rosity seems to be shifting to become more "corporate." I suspect they want to get more of their revenue from advertising, so they aren't dependent on the MP. If that's the case, they're probably going to try to be more "office friendly." These days, if you make your living from advertising, you want to be the kind of site people can view at the office.

The "no nudity" crowd may eventually get what they want, not because of art, but because of commerce.

I think companies that do allow such perks are going to be rethinking their policies, not because of censorship or even being authoritarian, simply because of security. Allowing employees unrestricted access to personal email and browsing greatly increases the threat to the internal network. Broadband access? Gee, I wish I had it too, but again, I don't think the idea that the workplace should provide what is in effect a luxury for our personal enjoyment bodes well for American competitiveness in a global economy. Given a choice of perks, I'd much rather have an hour home surfing at 56K than an hour of "work" with broadband. Employers would be better served by cutting back on work hours by the time that people aren't actually working. They'd cut out salaries paid for no productivity and the overhead, including subsidizing bandwidth.

"Global competitiveness" is just plain bad news for us. Chinese workers make 3% of what Americans workers make. Are we supposed to compete with that? I'm sure many American employers would love to copy tactics such as not allowing bathroom breaks and not offering any health insurance, too.

The Internet is like the phone used to be. Most employers don't mind a few phone personal calls made from work.

As for security...you can allow employees access to the net without allowing access to personal e-mail. Filters work very well for that.

As for saving money by cutting back salaries...that's assuming they're actually paying overtime. The professionals likely to be using computers are on salary, and generally don't get overtime.

I recently read an analysis of European vs. American economies. Our economy grows faster...but a big reason for that is that American workers get less time off. Europeans get 6 weeks of vacation a year. They roll up the streets in August. And a 35 hour work week is standard. Yes, we're more competitive than Europe...but are we really better off?

I don't think there's any easy answer. There's a vast redistribution of wealth going on. We can't compete based on wages alone. There are too many people who are hungry (literally and figuratively) for a piece of the pie. I do think though that the West has become a little too soft. We can be more productive without going to sweatshop conditions. I think though that in order to compete, all of us are going to have to realize that we're not in Kansas anymore and we may have to get back to more of a traditional work ethic. Every hour that we're shopping, checking out the latest sports scores and emailing jokes is an hour someone overseas is making a profit for someone. I'm certainly not for banning all non-work activity but if the figures we see for lost productivity due to the internet are even half right, that's a whole lot of money. I can't believe a couple of days ago, I'm quoting Rumsfeld and now I'm siding with the bean counters. The Renderosity forums are turning me into a Republican! )-:

@Imckenzie: I can only partly agree. If I look at our company and the decisions our management makes, this is the place where most of the money is lost. Let the employees participate on their success (e.g. company shares), which is still not common here in Europe and productivity will rise again. I am always amazed about this nudity discussion. Maybe because I live in Europe. I wonder when it will be forbidden to look at greek statues and old oil paintings (e.g. Rubens) for people under 18. I would not be afraid that someone sees rendered nudity on my screen at work. You should be afraid, that someone sees you doing something irrelevant for your job, if nudity or not. I do surf at work, but I also work about the same amount at home. My work must be done with a certain effort, wether at home or at my office. It's that easy and no one asks for more. At least at my business.

I have a feeling that future generations will be as amazed by our current technology/standard of living as past generations would have been. I'm enjoying it while it's available. Globalization means the poor get richer and the rich get poorer. There's no place to go but down for us.

Singular is right: technology is erasing the difference between work and home. Even before telecommuting, cell phones, and Blackberries, a lot of people worked at home as well as in the office. Now it's worse, because you're never out of touch. Your boss can call or e-mail you even when you're in Hawaii on vacation...and does.

All too true. One reason I wouldn't have a cell phone. People have made a bargain with pervasive technology. In return for the dubious convenience of being always connected, always on camera, you pay a price when government and corporations (increasingly the same entity) use it for control. Wait until every item you purchase come equipped with an RFID tracking tag. But of course "they" wouldn't use that information for anything other than benign purposes would they? I think Orwell was only off in his timing about 20 years. Singular3D, it's always interesting to hear how things are different in Europe--more different all the time.

I think this thread's meaning got lost in translation. I just hope to see more original art work done here. I don't care if it's a V3 nuse or a fairy, or an angel. Just be original. Thats why 3d art is not as popular as it should be in marketing. Because everything looks the same. In the last two years I have only seen one use of poser in a major publication that had nothing to do with video games. In the original post I was just complaining about the repitition and low quality of some of the artwork here. It is a far cry from what the original site was about. As far as Deviant and Elfwood go those sites too have have suffered from the quality of artwork posted there. People are less likely to buy prints, products, or request comissions if the majority of what they see is low quality (crap). Deviant art used to be a place to go for original and high quality art. They used to have a very successful rate of print sales from the site. Not so much anymore. Years ago Elfwood was a great community for ameture artists now both sites are so plagued with garbage all there are suffering. Get this thread back on track. Does anyone here want to see better quality work or does everyone just want the same crap thrown at them over and over?

Attached Link: The theme of Tarot cards isn't original but the way I represent them is

Well this doesn't really seem the place for selling prints, it's more the place where ppl post the images they work on to improve their skills. There do seem to be more ppl that have a greater range in the level of skills probably because more are starting.

I personally put my stuff on CafePress to sell but there isn't as much freedom on what to put on there, this is more of a hobbists site where ppl share stuff and get feedback (although it's debatable about how useful the feedback is) I have had ppl request commissions here but not that they were willing to pay for.

What seems to sell here is the textures and models for making making imakes not the images themselves. I've done, a bunch of original comics, tarot cards and advertising illustrations that I was selling elsewhere but I didn't expect there would be a market for them here.

I'm not sure what you mean by original then, the way ppl present the images and what they do with them are, but themes they use and the elements in them rarely are since ppl have been doing representations of women, fairies, sunsets and temples in all kinds of different mediums for centuries.

Message edited on: 12/19/2004 16:36

Rhats why 3d art is not as popular as it should be in marketing. Because everything looks the same. Interesting idea. I had heard that Poser art wasn't in much demand by art directors and such. Hadn't thought of this explanation, but you could be right. But I don't think Renderosity will ever be a place that sells a lot of prints. Does anyone here want to see better quality work or does everyone just want the same crap thrown at them over and over? Of course everyone wants to see better quality work. But at what price? A juried gallery? A board of art censors? I don't think anyone's clamoring for more bad art. They just don't see any solution that wouldn't be worse than the "problem."

Once again you are missing the meaning. I was just refering to the selling of prints as an example. I am not asking for a censor. I just think as artists we can do better.

Once again you are missing the meaning. I was just refering to the selling of prints as an example. I am not asking for a censor. I just think as artists we can do better.

I don't.

I honestly believe that most people do the best they can. Nobody sits there and thinks, "Time to make some sucky art."

What's happened, I suspect, is what has happened to the entire Internet. Everybody's online now. Before, you needed a certain level of expertise and education just to get onto the Internet. That's no longer the case. There's no gatekeeper any more; the unwashed masses are online. Renderosity is much bigger now. It will never be the same as it was.

Attached Link: The many facets of Valentine's Day

That's what I meant by the varing levels of skill, there seems to be a greater range of it from the beginner's to the ppl with more experience posting. I do think everyone developes their skills at their own rate. How to give feedback to help them improve their skills seems to be a touchy subject around here since some don't like criticism and some don't seem to know a constructive suggestion from an opinion of personal taste. The "Nicely Done" and "Great image" comments are nice to have but not all that helpful. It's mostly practice and example that seems to help ppl around here, that's why you see a lot of the same thing since someone sees an image of something they thought was cool and they try to do an example of it themselves. Or they see a cool product in the market place and they see what they can do with it. All the interpretations are different even if they use the same elements and the skill they present them with varies so that's what makes them original even though the product might be the same. You see a lot of images with Aiko and The Girl lately since the product just came out but there are a lot of different representations since artists treat them differently. I did a bunch of stuff for Valentine's Day which might look the same on the surface but a lot of it has different representations and interpretations if looked at closer.

'Nobody sits there and thinks, "Time to make some sucky art."' Randym77 pretty much sums it up. Though I'm not an artist. I think I can perhaps understand some of Oceanlord25's frustration. You have to understand the way these things evolve though. I imagine if you look at "amateur" video, for example, the people who first got into it were probably those who had some expertise in the field. Today, many more people can afford the equipment and it's easier to use. There's also a much greater awareness. In the beginning, you probably had the budding Spielbergs. Now, you have everyone and his brother taping vacations and birthday parties. Once you expand the population, you can't expect the same average level of talent or the same kind of motivation or interest. Did the Brownie somehow debase the art of fine photography? The fact that Poser has opened up a world of possibilities for more people to express themselves is wonderful. The artistic purists will always be disappointed that "their" art form has been diluted, that the overall level of talent has declined, etc. My only suggestion is for them to try to accept and even perhaps embrace the notion that now many more people can enjoy the sense of joy and fulfillment that art has brought them, each in their own way. On the surface it may seem that there is less originality but to each person, their creation is original, it comes from their individual attempt to express something, even if they consciously set out to emulate something they admire. Renderosity may no longer be the exclusive province of a few talented pioneers and perhaps in a sense that is regrettable but it still provides the same opportunity to so many more. That, as Martha would say, even from prison, is "a good thing."