In the Fractal Galleries I am seeing more and more of the UF images get the viewings and the glory, especially in the Hot 20. has anyone else noticed this?

Anyhow, does anyone think that it is plausible to split the Fractal gallery into XenoDream, Apophysis, and UltraFractal Galleries? I mean, most of the other galleries besides 2D have the App name as the gallery! And, if the fractal gallery is a single gallery, then why shouldn't Poser And Daz|studio and the like be consolidated to a "3D Biological Modeling and Posing" gallery?

Just a Thought to bounce off people.

grabs bag of popcorn and settles down to watch fireworks Seriously though, I don't see this as such a bad idea - although the logistics could be tricky to get it set up... I'm an Apophysis "artist" myself, and I just don't really feel comfortable posting my works here because of the very reasons you have highlighted above. T.

I find myself in the same spot too! I love a true fractal and especially a true flame. Only every once in a while will I do a little extra to an image. I thought that the fractal window weekly was a chance for some of the rest of us to have a highlighted spot every once in a while, but I seem to keep seeing the same ones over and over just like the hot 20, which they really do wonderful work, but I would love to see some images that haven't been altered so much or all from the same programs.

hmmm, I have said this before on the apo list but I'll try to say it differently here... No, never mind on that. Talking about apophysis is like talking about someone's religion. I'm not going there this time. Maybe you would be happier at deviantart? Seriously, I'm not trying to be argumentative. Over there it seems that flames are the most popular. Maybe the best thing to do is to stop listing the software that we use. Why do we do that anyway? Why does it matter?

Hi Kid_Fisto. There is quite a history on this issue, as you might have guessed, particularly on the H20. As someone suggested to me not long ago, you might search the archives for related postings and get a feel for the discussion that has already taken place. Some of it has been a bit, shall we say, lively. Good thought provoking stuff for the most part. As for me, I started out with Apophysis and worked myself all the way up to a semi-informed novice user of UF. But I still use Apo and enjoy a good flame, particularly something that is unique. As for splitting the gallery, I suppose it would help with some issues. But I would then have to troll through two or three galleries to see what's new across all 'fractal' platforms, and I already have limited time to look through one.

Deagol wrote... "Maybe you would be happier at deviantart?" I don't want to be argumentative either - but isn't the above a little rough? Shouldn't ALL fractal artists, no matter the software they use to create their works, be welcome in ANY Fractal Community such as this one? Besides - I DO have a gallery at DA, and am getting enough recognition for my work there to sate my ego... lol! As opposed to being totally ignored here... Deagol also wrote... "Talking about apophysis is like talking about someone's religion." Hahaha! Well met! But it can also be applied to those who prefer UF... Deagol, my friend, you are an exceptionally talented artist in the medium of your choice - but what may be your choice may not be that of others... and all we ask is for the same level of respect for our art as you expect for yours. I have also noticed that the FWW has recently become more of a UF showcase, even when there have been fine works made by other applications in the running for that week's "glory". Sure, the FWW is selected by our fine staff here, but it can sometimes appear that they may have a stronger leaning towards UF creations. It doesn't matter whether we list what software we have used for our works or not - the difference between a UF, Apophysis, or XD image is instantly apparent... would you not agree? T.

And what about images made in Apophysis that can be exported in Apo and imported in UF? And I think that the Apo stuff is loosing its glory because the creations tend to look more and more similar. I miss my Apo heroes here and the Apo images that once made me speechless...

As with UF, there is a lot more under the hood of Apo, and it's quite capable of allowing one to create some very stunning images... but as with most applications, not everyone is interested in really exploring the full extent of those capabilities due to it having a learning curve... lol! I know that I have yet to explore the capabilities of UF at a deeper level, because I perceive the learning curve to be too steep for me at this time... even moreso when I'm getting such stunning images (I think anyways) out of Apophysis. I am in awe of some of the images that some people can create with UF - but it's not the be-all and end-all when it comes to the diversity of the fractal "realm"... T.

Well spoken, Tracey. And therefore splitting up the gallery should be no option... I still like to be inspired by works of others, be it UF like I myself use or Apo or FE or ... which are used by many others.

I was addicted to apophysis long before most people here had ever heard of it and I still use it occasionally. I'm confused. This thread is about splitting the gallery. Is that a good idea or not? Now I am being argumentative... T., you tell me, is my latest image a UF or apo image? Don't bother to look. It's UF. It doesn't even use the apo/flame formulas. Normally I'll have 10 or 15 comments by now. I wonder what's going on? It's pure UF with hardly any comments.

If the gallery was split, which gallery would I put these images in? http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1104634 http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1072495 http://home.comcast.net/~fractalsbykeith/pgs/frac136.htm They all have apo flames that were assembled in UF.

Deagol, Maybe you have had very little response to your latest image because it looks like an Apo flame... which would certainly go a long way to proving the point listed above, wouldn't it? As for the listed images - I would say that you'd still put them in a UF gallery, as you used the layers, masks, etc functions in UF to create the works - they are still predominantly UF images... I take it you used UF to render them too? T.

Yes, it does prove that point, which is why I brought it up. Most people know that I use UF, even for standalone apo flames. Even with that understanding I am not getting the usual number of comments on that image. My point is, it doesn't matter that I created the image with UF. Using UF does not guarantee a lot of attention. The software is not the issue. The end product is the issue. Maybe the reason that the image isn't getting a lot of attention is because it sucks. Let's say that we do split up the gallery. What do you suppose would change? I think that we would end up with an apo gallery that gets the same level of attention that flames get now. Maybe less, because we would be even more focused on our own worlds instead of looking at the fractal gallery as a whole. Even so, if providing separate galleries brings some new level of satisfaction to apo, or XD, or FE, or whatever users, no problem. I don't see how it would, but it's OK if it does. I don't see how anyone could be offended by a suggestion to go to deviantart. That site is getting huge and it has a lot of very impressive art on it. It seems to be the popular hangout for the flame crowd.

OK, so it doesn't suck :) but it is what it is - not exactly the most popular image that I have created. I'm just trying to figure out how putting it in a separate "IFS" gallery would make it better or more popular, or be more satisfying. Which brings up another point. Apo flames are Iterated Function Systems fractals. UF can do those and so can several other programs (I swear I have even seen XD do them). What would be the most sensible way to categorize these new galleries? Lot's of people stack flames together in Photoshop. Would these go in the apo gallery? Or maybe the programs-that-layer-fractals gallery. Or maybe the IFS gallery, which makes the most sense to me, because then we would be comparing apples with apples, but what a mess this is all becoming! I can't resist 2 more categories: How about the "pure" and "dirty" fractal galleries? I'll stick with the dirt. It has more texture :-)

There needs to be a catch-all gallery for images that don't fit into regimented parameters. Since my art doesn't really meld well with most of the galleries I now have it posted on Zazzle.com. It is refreshing not to have someone complain. Mivan

Please don't split the fractal gallery. I like seeing fractals made in any program out there. Marion

You can split it in 2 sections 1. A group for what i call real one layerwork without postwork on another words so naturel as is possible 2. a group that we call Fractal art and where anything is possible in mappingwork layerwork and postproccesing but no adding objects 3 for the rest you have the Mixed Media group That ,s my idea about this question Cheers Arend

Arend, why would you like to see the split?

Hi all! We really don't see a need to split the Fractal gallery. It's great to see the diverse works and programs used in our gallery. There really is no good clean way to separate it, anyway. Think about it, though... If we DID split the gallery, more than likely, it wouldn't balance out, and we would end up with the discussion to re-join the galleries :D

Keith its fine so as it is now but as you think about a split then is my idea simply a option not more then that Have a nice weekend all Greatz Arend

I'd love Apophysis to have it's own gallery, then I wouldn't have to look at any more crap flames. Even the thumbnails are an affront to my eyes. Truthfully, this whole gallery is stagnating, we are pouring out the same rubbish time after time. Until we get some inspiration or jump on somebody elses inspiration bandwagon, then it can only get worse not better.

I have been enjoying many of the flames here recently. They're not all crap and there is plenty of non-flame crap to go around too. Besides, we really shouldn't call anything here "crap". This place has a range of experience levels. I would never call my granddaughter's finger paintings crap. That's just not cool. I have said this many times before but it's worth saying again: First and foremost, this place is a community. The social aspects of it dominate the art, but I have learned to enjoy both. Stagnation, now that's a thought worth thinking about. I wonder, have we taken fractal art as far as it will go? I have to bring up DA one more time. This might seem strange, but the reason that it has my attention is because my older teenage daughter is visiting it. She didn't hear about it from me, she heard about it from her non-artist friends. It's becoming popular among the youngsters, like MySpace is (my daughter hates it when I look at her MySpace. I get to see who her friends are and what they are like, thus getting to know the real her better). DA has great art but I think it's the blog/social aspect of it that is moving it forward as fast as it is. Flames, one more time Apophysis is becoming the fractal standard. It used to be Fractint, then UF and maybe XD, now it's apo. Apo is bringing in the new generation of fractal artists. I found it amusing to hear the old "pure fractal" expression get used for flames. Apophysis was originally created to be a front end flame finder for UF and I still use it that way. It's like the poor flame is defiled when I stuff it into UF to give it a background or mask a chunk of it off. I've stolen its virtue :-) New people don't know the history of apo, so when a flame is taken to its fullest potential in UF, they think it's been violated :-). This is funny to me because I used to use the same "fractal purity" argument about UF images that were altered in Photoshop. My philosophy has changed. I want to see the art of fractals move forward as much as possible and I want to leave all creative options open so that it will move forward as fast as it can.

Deviant Art is one of THE worst designed websites I have ever had the misfortune to get lost in. If they had gotten a 3 year old to design it then it couldn't have been anymore user unfriendly. When I click a link I want it to go where it says it will not cruise around for 15 minutes hoping I get there eventually. I'll never understand why it took off in the first place let alone why it is still growing. Maybe it's the excitement of never knowing where you are or where you will end up. A virtual walkabout. What is with the name 'Deviant art' anyway. Why not go all the way and call it 'Paedophile pictures' or 'art by rapists'. Eccentric, idiosyncractic, nonconformist, offbeat, unconventional, unorthodox and even unusual are all words that mean the same but without the blatant sexual overtones of 'deviant'. Not somewhere you want your kids to go.

Yes, but in spite of that it is still growing. I guess what I am trying to do is drop some hints for the folks who build this site to look there and try to understand why, in spite of its navigation problems, it is growing in what appears to be a faster rate than this place is.

I LOVE RENDEROSITY!!! big hug

Hey Tony, is there anything positive you might say about this Fractal Gallery? It might be worth thinking about it.

I just did. This place is great. I LOVE RENDEROSITY. Hate most of the people. People always ruin it with their bloody holier than thou attitudes. So I go holier than everyone. They all think i'm a twat and unite in their hatred of me. I keep this place happy and stop the hatred from spreading uncontrollably through the forum and gallery onto the internet and into the hearts of every human being on the planet. I'm sorta like God, but without the worship thing.

Well - much as I like disagreeing with Deagol on just about every topic ever raised in this forum - I'd have to agree with him here... TonyYeboah - I disagree with you on the DeviantArt navigation issue. Sure, it takes a little getting used to - just like any new place one visits on the internet - but once you work it out, it's quite easy to find whatever you're looking for. I also disagree with you on the point that the majority of flames here are "crap". Some may not necessarily be up to your "standards" - then again, I'm not overly fussed on your works either - but I'm not telling you that they are crap, am I? One thing I'd really like to see changed here at Renderosity is the insistence of creating a darned thumbnail to post with your image... get with the times people! Isn't there a way you can add some code to the gallery software to create it's own thumbnails? T.

Tony- "I'd love Apophysis to have it's own gallery, then I wouldn't have to look at any more crap flames." If flames are not your interest, then don't click on those thumbs. There are plenty of other styles and progs used here. This is also a community of all skill levels, and many are here to learn, share, and enjoy. How about offering something 'constructive' rather than calling something crap, please? Tracey- The auto-thumb generating thing has been up for discussion among the Renderosity team. There is quite a list of things currently being worked on, so look forward to some new things in the new year :D Nick

Hehe - you said it better than I wanted to Nick... Thanks for the heads up on the possibility of not having to make separate thumbs... that would be very nice! T.

laughing I wonder why ya all get so excited and freaked out about a 14 y.o. who just escaped his mom's diapers trying to tell this community how he would ru(i)n it. Just should have told him the regulations, which would let him sing a few tones lower. smile

lol, now I know why they say artists are so tempermental. This is great fun...reading these great debates. I love this about Renderosity. Everyone gets to say their piece, and all the others get to agree or agree to disagree. It gives a more personal feel to the gallery. I enjoy all the fractal program posts, so I guess I'm on the 'don't split it up' side. As it is, it takes so much time going through them to comment, and you don't even get to comment on everyone, so if they are all split up, it would probably take a lot longer. As for the postwork, well I guess that each artist feels they love each of their fractals so much, they want to present it to its best advantage in their own particular way. I see nothing wrong with that. I do both, and I also use more than one fractal program. xoxoxo's! (:

Re: The thumbnail idea. I like having control over what the thumbnail will look like. Some images just do not shrink down well, and choosing a smaller section to display gives a better feel of what the image will be like. I know many users of 2D and 3D also like to excerpt a portion of their image to display for dramatic purposes or to keep nudity or violence off of the public pages. If Renderosity is going to consider generating thumbnails, I hope they will leave it to the artist's discretion. Oh, and I am also in favor of keeping the Fractal Community united in one Gallery.

"I'd love Apophysis to have it's own gallery, then I wouldn't have to look at any more crap flames. Even the thumbnails are an affront to my eyes." You misunderstand, i'm not separating 'good from bad' flames. ALL flames are crap! That's why flames should ONLY be used as part of a bigger picture. Hitting random batch and moving triangles around for two minutes doesn't make you an 'artist'. OK, constructive comments. Ban flames that are just rendered out of Apophysis and posted on the site. This serves two main functions. 1) It saves me having to look at the crap. 2) It elevates the quality of pictures that are posted on the site because there will actually have to be some work involved in them. The people that are just rendering for the sake of it will actually have to learn how to enhance their work past the 'I made this for you mommy' stage. This makes a more creative gallery thus provoking other people to push themselves harder and come up with something different. I know I can't be the only person that is tired of seeing the same people call the same crap basic flames posted every day 'fantastic'. They have been doing it for god knows how many years now and people I have a newsflash for you. "THEY AREN'T GOING TO STOP!!!" I know what you all are going to say... "This is a community it's part of being here". Well look at the top of the page, because it has two words there. 'ART Community'. Sure you can kid yourselves that this place isn't about art it's more about community, but I live in a community, I have neighbours, I have friends, and my daily routine doesn't involve going from house to house in my street and kissing the arse of everyone I meet there. As for people who aren't 'skilled' enough to post in this gallery then maybe they should be shown the way to the beginner gallery. Otherwise, what's the point of having one. Tony Yeboah - The Apophysis Hater

It seems as though we have had people through out the beginning of time who feels the way Tony feels! There have been artists over the eons who have created an image, sculpture, ect that may have been easy to do or it could have been very difficult, then here comes someone else who hates it, so they order it destroyed or marred beyond recognition and restoration. The pharoahs did it for centuries and Hitler only did it for just a short time but the world lost so many wonderful works of art and writings that are lost for an eternity. So, if we don't like what someone does, ban it, remove it, destroy it and kill the artists, so they wont produce any more art that certain people hate! Hell why don't we just go back to the beginning of time, before anyone ever did the first drawings on cave walls and make it a forbidden sin!!! Just because you don't like it, it will be easier for you to close your eyes than it would be to critize and forbid me something that I enjoy doing!!! Tony Yeboah - The Apophysis Hater or could it be Tony Yeboah - The Adolph Hitler???? LOL

Attached Link: http://woosie.net/gallery2/index.php

There is always so much diversity in every group. I don't think the majority should have to surrender to the minority, but that's merely my humble opinion. I agree with T....handle it. (:

A quote from the movie A Christmas Story: "Some men are Baptists, others Catholic. My father was an Oldsmobile man" Just wanted to slip that in before this thread is locked.

Hey, I remember that black and white one in the center. Here's a quote from an old John Wayne movie, I don't remember which: "I thought you was dead".

Gee Tony, what we have here is a lack of communication. Let me reiterate. We outnumber you!! NA NANA NAAA NAAA! lol q-:

You are very right about the lack of communication, but it's us not really "listening" to Tony. He just dropped a bomb and we don't even know that we've been hit. I'll give you another hint. Take a look at his gallery and look for the only comment that I have made on his images. I made it on 12/5. By the way, when threads are locked, it's generally because someone violated the TOS. I think this one should be locked, but not because of what Tony said. He never made any direct personal attacks. He only went after flames. Tony, see you around, again. I've been shaking my head in amazement for the last hour...

Why amazed? He wasn't gonna be happy until you figured it out.

Stephi, good point, but I don't mind if he's happy. I still think he's a great artist

Message edited on: 12/18/2005 22:36

I haven't seen enough of his art to know or say anything about it. If the flames he posted above are crap, I'd like to see some that he truthfully considers to be non-crap.

lol ya have to be criminally insane to dislike the 'crap' he posted here, i wonder how he became so disrespectful towards the artists who live by apophysis... a split of the gallery is never gonna happen, no matter how high his tones are... have a nice week and stay out of trouble smile

If you google his name you might find some more discussion forums where he complains about how bad the world is. Perhaps it's not Matt but somebody else?

Wow...talk about not having a life...I just read this W. H. O. L. E. thread...jeez... Quote: "I recently took up ice sculpting. Last night I made an ice cube. This morning I made 12, I was prolific." - Mitch Hedberg

I agree that the gallery shouldn't be divided. That's what I was talking about all along. I cannot speak about Tony's work, since I never see it, but there's hardly ever a flame I haven't liked. So nice to be back and get into a fun debate. Adios amigos! (:

hmmm... sorry, guys, it's not Matthew!!! It is someone pretending to be him, using a bogus name ... As far as i have been reading in the archives, Matthew adored Apophysis flame designs. And Andreas, i can't find anything about Anthony (Tony) Yeboah other than the fact that he is a Ghanaian footballer who played for Leeds United F.C. and Hamburger SV

Just enter "tonyyeboah" in one term...