Love the package, but need to know three things:

1 - The breast morphs are ok, but I want to apply my own, but still have the rest of the shoulder/chest look the way the full package does. Does anyone have any hints as to how to have the chest and other geometry keep the athletic appearance and change JUST the breasts?

2 - Other than dragging the morphed figure into Tailer (ug), is there any way to get more of V3's clothign to fit the figure?

3 - the eyes are great, but they don't take to "point at" real well. Any fixes? Having new prop eyes that have the slightly better geometry is great looking, but for easy posing when having them look at the camera or into another figure's eyes.. nope. Rollback into the head.

Message edited on: 03/14/2006 10:03

Moving this to the Poser forum :-) Karen Poser Mod

I can take #3 (I think). As I recall, this package uses Black Eyes...well anyway, this works for Black Eyes. A similar setup may work for others. 1) Choose the prop. 2) Open the joint editor 3) in the "End Point" boxes, change the "z" value to 0.90 4) you may also have to tweak the "x" value slightly 5) Chose the other eye and do the same.

To add to what PabloS said, basically, make sure the X and Y values are the same for Origin and EndPoint, and that the Z value is slightly higher for EndPoint. Unless GND's eyes are set up differently from other figures or prop eyes (as far as XYZ orientation), this should work. I can't confirm this, as I don't have GND.

Bingo! One down, two to go! Thanks PabloS!

Thread with Ikyoto? PabloS? & R_Hatch?? Hey Mr. Peabody, someone left the Wayback Machine running! (I really did do a double-take for the date on this one)

hey there ikyoto, 1. you should be able to use V3's breast morphs with her - just inject them normally. some might work better than others - try them, and at different strengths if you get unexpected results. i completely flattened her chest before i morphed the breasts from scratch -- i didnt want her to even remotely resemble V3 -- so all of V3's breast morphs might not work exactly like they do on V3. however just recently (when i was figuring out how umutov disguised my GND morph in his products) i tried V3's morphs extensively on her and most seem to work just fine. remember you dont have to dial them in at 100% strength, you can try hundreds of different decimal combinations. also, a pair of magnets is quite easy to make and lets you resize (shrink/enlarge) the breasts or pull them around to point/hang differently. the first lingerie pack i released for her also has an extra breast cleavage morph. 2. people have had decent results with wardrobe wizard. theres also several new clothing packs out for her, as well as more coming in a couple of days to the store - by various merchants. more coming from me as well, but ive been sick in bed for the last 2 weeks and im just starting to get better now, so im a bit delayed. personally im not a fan of 'fitted' or 'converted' clothing - just like IRL i prefer to tailor it directly for the model, as it always looks best that way. 3. thanks pablo :) im creating a free blackeyes 3.0 (for blackeyes buyers) and that should solve this, as well as add new better textures (since at this point my 'free' blackeyes light textures i include with characters like GND, irina, etc surpass my original ones by far). 'point at' is a crutch, however - i strongly recommend you dont use it. its the single largest factor contributing to the 'blank poser stare' that plagues the galleries, and makes most poser renders look dead and unrealistic. most people use it out of laziness, but you must realise that unless your camera is very far away, 'point at' is going to make the figure crosseyed. it also wont have the figure focused right into the viewer's eyes - you can only get this by hand adjustment. you can use a quick trick to focus the eyes manually - sit directly in front of your monitor, and cover one of the character's eyes (yes, with your hand). using the eye movement dials, rotate the characters eye to look directly into yours. you may need to render to make sure you got it right (this is where poser5/6's 'area render' is a lifesaver in a complex scene). repeat for the other eye, covering the one you just did. many people will mirror the settings on each eye but this is incorrect too, as eye focus comes together on nearer objects, they are nowhere near parallel. let me know if i can be of any more help. cheers, -gabriel

"but you must realise that unless your camera is very far away, 'point at' is going to make the figure crosseyed." err, change that to walleyed, not crosseyed :) walleyed = blank poser stare.

Yeah, I'm still around nance... older, more worn, but still kickin. Damn 21 st century thang still has mah countin' fingers all mussed up. I'm playing with the morphs and Blackhearted is right - some are ok, some not so hot. But the radical re-shaping of the body is great and I'll push for more clothing for this character - Really it's more of a new figure altogether as far as I'm concerned. The eye fix is actually easy if you goof around with the joint settings. I'm using them re-sized/scaled/jointed with a couple of other figures as well. One thing I do is create a simple primative and have the eyes point at that and just don't let it show in renders. For two characters I have each one look into the opposite eye of the other - the right to left trick. Even though REAL people don't do this (we focus on one eye then the other when we make real "eye contact" for Poser it works well enough.

Yep, I don't like "point at" too - first because if you look at real people closely you may see that in most cases their eyes have a very small "glitch" that causes something like a super-tiny crosseyed-effect or similar. But more important than this is the fact the different light settings cause a different effect with the eyes, too. With the default lights everything may look right, the character looks directly at the beholder (or has this "lost in thoughts" look... however you're desired effect may be). Then you delete the lights and add your own - and suddenly your figure has a completely different expression and seems to look into another direction. You go better with setting the camera, a rough eyepose, add the desired light and then adjust the eyes until they have the desired look and expression. Oh, and by the way: A Blackeyes-Update is a nice idea. May it contain support for some more characters or at least some hints for setting them up the right way (Jessi, Miki, Koji...)?

"Oh, and by the way: A Blackeyes-Update is a nice idea. May it contain support for some more characters or at least some hints for setting them up the right way (Jessi, Miki, Koji...)?" ill do as many setups as i can, for the characters i own. there are so many new characters though from daz that i am not going to do them all - i dont own luke, laura, matt, maddie or david - and i probably never will if i can help it, heh. there are just so many 'new figure' rehashes of V3 and M3 it makes my head spin. i dont own miki because i just cant budget that amount of money on her. ill do the main figures like jessie and whatever her male counterpart is named, v3, a3, sp3, m3 and whatever else i have. the way they are set up, however, its very simple for the user to just adapt them quickly to any character you want - then save them to the library - you only have to do it once. theres instructions on how to do it in the old readme, but ill update them with screenshots or something. and of course, with every new character i create ill continue to include a set of blackeyes 'lite'. " For two characters I have each one look into the opposite eye of the other - the right to left trick." thats a pretty good idea, i have to try that sometime. cheers, -gabriel

Yep, I already conformed my Blackeyes to Matt and Maddie (well, I couldn't help it because they're good for greeting cards) and SP3. The problematic thing are figures whith a very different eye-shape (like Miki and Jessi) but with some more hints I should be able to figure it out myself. You're right about Miki/Koji/who-ever and budget. They're very expensive and I had to decide too if to buy some more V3-stuff or give a new shape a chance.

Keep us posted about the Blackeyes update. Great idea, which will make me use them even more often! Thanks!

Yup Nance, I'm still around too. As for using "point at" I agree. It is cheating in a sense; however, real people generally focus on something. :-) I live with it having found that posing eyes to be the most time-consuming thing to get exactly right...pose, render, a little more left, render, now a little more down, render, too much, use half that setting, render, not enough (or too much)...uggh!!! Then do the other eye. The next thing I know the sun is rising. Heaven forbid you decide to change the head or camera angle. LOL Like Ikyoto, I aim the eyes at a prop roughly 2X to 3X the distance of the camera so crossed eyes aren't usually a problem. I've usually found that "walleyed" look has just as much to do with the expression, or lack thereof, than anything else, particularly when "blink" is set to 1.

Posing, testing, posing... yes, that's the reason I like the area render for ;o)

Yes! Area render is great. It saves some time BUT the tweaking process is still a PITA when you can't seem to nail it. LOL

"The problematic thing are figures whith a very different eye-shape (like Miki and Jessi)" everyones eyes should be spherical (or slightly inwards-elongated spheres, but i dont think anyones that anatomically accurate in poser). if theyre not - if theyre horizontally elongated spheres or egg-shaped or something - then thats a mistake on the part of the morph maker (deforming the eyes along with the face when they morph). if its the outer eye shape thats, say, slanted or squinty or something then that should pose no problem if the morph was made with spherical eyes since the socket will still be spherical. its just a matter of adjusting the x/y/z position of the eyes, might take a few tries and you may need to set the eyes further apart or closer together than you originally tried. examine the original eyes that came with the figure. if they are not spherical then thats a problem with the actual figure itself. its easy to make an oriental face morph by just pulling the eyes around - doing it without altering the underlying spherical eye socket and eyeballs is much more difficult, and the least you should expect in a decent morph in this stage of poser development. to sum it up (i havent had my coffee yet and the above is probably unintelligable): if the eye socket on a morph fits a spherical eye, then any eye can be adapted to it easily - its just a matter of finding the proper centres and depth. if it uses some strange misshapen eye then you cannot fit a 3rd party eye to it in its default form, but if it uses a misshapen eyeball then the morph isnt very 'clean' to begin with. a lot of older morphs (3-4 years ago) had this problem, but by now every merchant should know better. "You're right about Miki/Koji/who-ever and budget. They're very expensive and I had to decide too if to buy some more V3-stuff or give a new shape a chance." i didnt mean to imply they were too expensive or anything - in fact in the poser world we have it pretty cheap, quality 3D content is generally prohibitively expensive and only in this community do we find things for $5 or (shudder) .99 cents. i just have a lot to budget for right now - like replacing my tired old lemon - so i am only purchasing products i need for my work (utilities, hair, etc). i dont think ill be personally supporting her - i learned that lesson with stephanie petite and irina - when V3 was made 'free' a week before she was released it trashed my sales since everyone wanted it redone for V3. noones going to buy miki for $50-100, then a remorphed character/texture from me for $20, then clothing for that character. ill stick with V3 or whatever else is free. plus shes kindof a niche character. not saying irina did poorly - but she would have sold twice the amount had she been made for V3. creating a V3 version now would be like kicking all the customers that bought the SP3 version of her, so thats not going to happen either. ah well, live and learn. cheers, -gabriel

It would be nice if the figures from DAZ truely were "unimesh" in that the joints were al teh same and it was a matter of scaling/modifing the mesh to achieve the looks. Then clothign really would be universal. That would be a dream for P7 or DS2... a built in converter for clothing. I'd buy a heck of a lot MORE clothing if it could be passed from figure to figure. But having to make it for each version of the "unimess"? Ack.

Hey, you're a lucky guy - you're able to write in an understandable manner without having your first copy. I'm afraid I do not even speak clearly. I've copied your advices to my "ancient secrets".txt and will give it a try because the eyes of the e-frontier figures are a bit, well, poor. That thing with expensive is again me tripping over a foreign language. Expensive is in fact nothing bad in german, it's just "too much for me to afford at the moment". I don't think that the figures are overpriced and your right with the difference between reasonable and dirt-cheap. Oh yes, please do me a favour and don't be worried over Irina - she is so wonderful and unique ;o) Take care Meike

"That would be a dream for P7 or DS2... a built in converter for clothing. I'd buy a heck of a lot MORE clothing if it could be passed from figure to figure." the only thing id love to see in P7 is a revamp of the rigging system - bringing it up to modern standards. thats all wed need. it would make the standard poser people surpass V3 and M3 in functionality and realism, and i could just switch 100% of my support to the default poser models, which every poser user has. CL has stated that the reason they havent updated the default poser figures to include more body part groups (like V3) is because with their upcoming rigging system it will not be necessary. if you head over to CGTalk forums and look at some of the rigging you can do in more modern software youll realise that poser is quite lacking in that department - its using a rigging system thats been unchanged for over a decade now. everyone keeps requesting rediculous features in poser - like global illumination, particle engine, etc - but when you get right down to it poser is a character POSING, animation and rendering app. at its foundation should be a solid rigging system, since at this point poser texturing, shaders, morphs, clothing, etc are up to par but whats really holding things back is that the characters look like absolute shit in most poses that require bending of a bodypart more than 30 degrees. content developers have been bending over backwards creating all sortsof workarounds like JCMs, CR2 hacks, etc in order to get the figures to look more or less human but its never enough, and the lack of complex joints is getting more and more noticeable as textures/morphs/clothing gets more and more realistic. "Oh yes, please do me a favour and don't be worried over Irina - she is so wonderful and unique ;o)" thanks :)

I second this: "don't be worried over Irina". I got Steph 3 just to get Irina. She is just so cool. I would love to see more for her. I love the shape, the textures, her clothes, her face morph, I could go on and on. I am excited about the Black eyes update. The tips in here are going to help me a lot since I as haveing trouble getting the eyes to look where I wanted them to.

(...)because with their upcoming rigging system it will not be necessary. Hear, hear! and the lack of complex joints is getting more and more noticeable as textures/morphs/clothing gets more and more realistic Yes, particulary in combination with some dynamic clothes. I've seen images with cloth flowing like silk over the body - and an ugly broken elbow shimmering through the fabric. It's a pity.

" I second this: "don't be worried over Irina". I got Steph 3 just to get Irina." thats exactly what bothers me though. its a shame people had to buy SP3 when V3 was/is free. when i started work on Irina V3 cost $30, same as SP3. had i known Daz would make her free id have created the pack for V3 instead. the same thing happened with the mil girls. if i recall the price went up (or the sale was over) after i finished Nia. i think from now on i will stick with V3/M3/A3. and if poser's rigging is updated then i will 100% focus on the default poser people. especially if V4 is a subdivided V3 - V3 is more than high enough res already.

in fact i should probably just contact CL directly and get an answer for them as to wether or not the rigging will be reworked in P7. anyone have a contact email or rosity nick for steve cooper from CL? is he still even in charge? i went to the site but cant really find anything other than their standard tech support and customer service emails/phone #s.

I've found an old interview with Steve Cooper http://www.renderosity.com/hostedforums.ez?hostedforum_id=14 and it seems that his nickname is kupa. The member search told me that he's still a member here. Hope that helps ;o)

Okay, I'm off for a bit sleep now - but will have a look again tomorrow, this thread is really interesting!

Message edited on: 03/15/2006 15:32

ah, thats it - i couldnt remember his nick. hmm, he last logged in on the 7th... so at least hes still active. going to email him. thanks

Steve Cooper left Curious Labs a couple of years back when they had their big crunch.

noooooooooooo.... who runs it now? i know theyve been bought by efrontier or whatever, but i assumed the old staff stayed. i hope its not nameless/faceless now. i didnt like a lot of things CL did, but they always had a presence in the poser community and listened to the members here for feedback and suggestions on poser (then again that might be part of the problem with P5/P6 - people expect too much). i just sent steve an email, hes probably going to shake his head and say 'wtf has this guy been smoking'. i thought he was still the head honcho there. and hey PJF. glad to see youre still around. havent seen you 'round these parts in ages - you over at PP most of the time?

On their main page (e-frontier / Curious Labs) click on the "Company" tab and look under the "Bios" option. It lists the top four head honchos. Larry Weinberg, the creator of Poser, is still involved. Katherine Howard is an old name too.

The "About Poser" option under the Help section of your Poser program menu might also be a good place to search for names, though I've no idea which of those, if any, are still active.

If Steve Cooper gets your mail he might be able to help still, if he's stayed on good terms with folk there. I've no idea about the background to the big crunch, but I liked Steve and he seemed a helpful guy (too forthright for a lot of sensitive forum peeps ;-)).

"...you over at PP most of the time?"

Heh. No, I stopped going there under the, er, previous management. I haven't returned since (apart from a couple of very brief lurks). Rendo is pretty much it for my online graphics existence, such as it is. Bryce forum mostly.

I checked into this thread because Im impressed by your Girl Next Door item to the extent of being close to buying. Your store seems to be justifiably flourishing.

PJF - Get it. I'm a picky bastard and if I buy something that isn't worth it I say so. I've bought stuff at DAZ and other places and if it isn't up to snuff I ask for my money back without batting an eye. This morph is worth it. She is not V3 as far as I'm concerned, she's a seperate character that deserves more support and clothing. Hell, Gimme enough clothing for her and V3 as a basis for future characters is gone. I've got custom faces taht work wonderfully with the GND.

Wardrobe Wizard is good, but not perfect. I don't know how it compares to Tailor, or some of the dedicated magnet sets. One thing I see is that WW conversions tend to get more skin-tight, but there are some work-arounds. I'll give an example, which should work with the free demo. Look at the clothing for the P5 figures, and the camouflage jacket and pants. If you convert them for the same target figure, the pants will poke-through the jacket. The solution is to convert the jacket while the target figure is temporarily morphed/scaled to have bigger hips. This still leaves localised distortions, which don't matter much on a cammo jacket, but at least now both figures have a Combat Jacket. Similarly, for conversions to the Unimesh figures, the ChestSpandex morph is worth using to stop cloth following the body shape too closely.

thats only natural - even if it didnt conform skintight, and it conformed the jacket loosely - then it would conform the pants just as loosely and it would poke through anwyay. is there no 'offset' setting in the program - allowing you to adjust the distance between the clothing and body? if there is, you can just convert the pants with the default skintight settings, and convert the jacket with a larger offset to fit over them. if not, such a morph is probably best done with magnets. you could do it with a handful of magnets in a ring around the hem of the jacket pulling it out, or one large magnet situaated at the bottom centre that enlarges the lower portion (hem) of the jacket. either way would give a smooth morph and wouldnt take more than 5-10 min to do.

I can tell you that Tailor has serious issues - I asked for my money back. Figures like GND will not load and no one can tell me why. Straight V3 with all the morphs loaded and set to zero will.

Figures like GND will not load and no one can tell me why. The only reason I could possibly think of as to why might be the BlackEyes props. Doesn't make sense, but it might be worth a shot to save a CR2 without the additional eye props and see if that might load.

ive been saying that since the beginning - a lot of people report that the tailor made a mess of things. its been like that since the beginning even with V3 - wrinkly jagged morphs. dont get me wrong its probably a great program, but i dont personally 'settle' for something like that. which is why i never converted my V2 textures to V3 with the texture converter, for example. it looked 'OK', but just passably acceptable doesnt cut it IMO - if youre going to do something then do it right. there were too many blurry and distorted areas for my liking. someone adapting a texture from their own library for a render is one thing (witht hem knowing the limitations) - its another entirely to release something like that in my store. i hear that WW does a much better job of converting clothing - at least from larger figures to smaller ones. converting, say, GND clothing to V3 makes a mess of things and ends up looking like the michelin man with a wierd puffy tubelike structure. but from the examples ive seen - of even complex outfits - they seemed to convert to GND quite well. still, i prefer to actually model clothing specifically for a character. using a product like the tailor is like buying your 90lb g/f a size 18 dress and telling her to 'make it fit' by running it through the washing machine a few times in extra hot water. something wont look 'just right' (wtf, i sound like one of the three bears talking about my porridge) unless it is modeled - 'tailored' - specifically for the body of the character on the mesh level. in fact depending on the clothing the underlying body should be shaped to adapt to the clothing as well - as a lot of clothing, especially these days - shapes the body quite a bit rather than just draping over it. ie: pushup bras, tight jeans, tight shirts, etc.

It's definatly not the eyes. I applied the morph inj to a V3 that I have previously used in Tailor, zero'ed everything, saved the crz and then tried to pull it into Tailer. BZZZT - name shows, but the morphs and mesh don't. Try the same thing with a "regular" V3 that has the DAZ inj's inserted and set to zero and it works. I'm going to check my cash and see about WW. After that it's back to Rhino and start cutting and rigging to match what I can. I HATE making conforming clothing, but this figure is worth it.

"After that it's back to Rhino and start cutting and rigging to match what I can. I HATE making conforming clothing, but this figure is worth it." aside from my lingerie a couple of people have clothing packs out. there are also a couple of merchants whose packs are still backlogged in the queue, and more coming from me as well. but if you are creating clothing, why bother with conforming? bah. use dynamic, looks better and is 10x easier to make. things that must be conforming - like undies and such - are already made. cheers, -gabriel

Cause I havent' found a tutorital for making them in a language I can understand - No one seems to speak my native tounge around the world anymore. Anyone got a "English to Neaderthal" dictionary?

dynamic clothing? its quite easy. 1. model it for the default T-pose body, just like you would with normal clothing. triangulated mesh is preferred for dynamic clothing, and itll probably have to be a denser mesh overall for wrinkles and folds to look more natural. a sub-d program like SILO is probably more efficient than NURBS for this type of thing. try the demo? not sure if its save-limited or not. 2. skip the whole conforming part and leave it all as one group. here are the instructions from my upcoming dynamic dress (quickly snipped/edited since the dress is a bit more complicated than this, it includes conforming parts): 1. Load the Girl Next Door 2 character as normal. 2. Load the clothing object from the Library 4. Move the Animation Frame slider at the bottom of the screen to about the 10th frame. 5. Pose the character as you wish. the dynamic clothing will not pose with the character at this time. 6. Return the Animation Frame Slider to Frame 1. 7. Switch to the Cloth Room by selecting the appropriate tab and select "New Simulation". When the "Simulation Settings" box pops up check the "cloth self-collision" box and click OK. 9. Select the clothing object and press the "Clothify" button. 10. Select the " Collide Against" button and check the following groups: Figure 1 (GND2): HIP Right Buttock Right Thigh Left Buttock Left Thigh (this will depend on your clothing object: just pick which parts are underneath your clothing and will thus be colliding with it. dont pick unneccessary parts as this increases the time to calculate the sim) Leave the Collision Offset and Collision Depth alone. Check the "draping from zero pose" box. You do not need to change the "Cloth Group" settings or the "Dynamic Controls" unless you want to change the behavior of the Dynamic Skirt. Before doing this you should have some knowledge of the use of Dynamic clothing. 12. Press the "Calculate Simulation" button and allow the simulation to run. Once the simulations has reached the end frame and finished you can return to the Pose room to make any minor adjustment to the scene. In the Pose room, use the "Dynamics" dial in the Dynamic Skirt group dial box to tweak the skirt if needed. If you want you can also click the small arrow to the right of the "Dynamics" dial and use "Recalculate Dynamics" to re-run the simulation without moving to the Cloth Room. Sometimes a better dynamic shape can be achieved this way. If you want to change the pose, clear the original pose by changing the end Frame of the Frame slider (originally set to 30) to 1, click OK in the pop up that appears. Then reset the end Frame back to 30. You can then move the slider to 10, apply a new pose, and click on "Recalculate Dynamics". The simulation will run again, using the new pose. As long as the Hybrid (or Dynamic) figure remains in the scene you do not have to use the cloth room for that simulation unless you want to modify the "Cloth Group" settings or the "Dynamic Controls". cheers, -gabriel

That's perfect! You're not anywhere NEAR like the descriptions of you I've read on those bus station bathroom walls! ;)

wtf? heh if you have access to cinema4D, i believe version 9+ has clothilde in it which has a very easy to use clothing-creating tool. you can subdivide the clothing and export it for use in something like poser's dynamic cloth room. only problem with C4D is the UV mapping is weak. but if you get a decent looking mesh and want it properly UV mapped you can send it over to me and ill map it for you. cheers, -gabriel btw - nothing can ruin my day now! i just picked up an AMD 64 X2 3800+ processor for $320 canadian, found out this chip is some sortof freak that has an unlocked multiplier (wtf? only FXs are supposed to have those) and i have it overclocked to 2700mhz on air cooling, so it outperforms an X2 4800+, which is way out of my price range at $1000 :( ive been literally jumping around whooping all afternoon, with Rio rolling her eyes at me.

Ok, now I hate you. My best machine is a laptop running a 1.4Ghz. Anyway - I don't know if anyone here ever checks raunchyminds, but i did two very nice wallpapers of the GND2 figure, one with the included pose and texture, the other a custom texture of my doing. I'm very pleased with the results.