Quote - The other thing, your question...i really have to think about. LOL Beacause i have no idea. Well, nobody is perfect.  :biggrin:

Amen to that... me more than most. :lol:

I dunno... maybe i am just too easy going... if one of my images was removed I'd shrug, go "Cest la Vie" and move on to the next render... LOL

Okay, now its really funny here about nudity guidelines.
My image for the contest breake the rules becaus ii dont discover the breast from some ghosts Photoshop brushes ?????
Okay these are the brushes you can buy here at MP.
Please allow me to laugh about you

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=20979
The nudity ghosts brushes. :biggrin:
this is really poor.

Ladona, do you see any bare breasts in that product's promo? I do, and several of the other judges see them in your image. It doesnt matter if the breasts are colored to look like a ghost image..its a human form and the bare breasts are clearly visible. Please read the contest rules again..and also check out the visual guidelines on the nudity clause for the contest. Also note the area about transparency in clothing.

http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=12176

Thanks

Quote - Ladona, do you see any bare breasts in that product's promo? I do, and several of the other judges see them in your image. It doesnt matter if the breasts are colored to look like a ghost image..its a human form and the bare breasts are clearly visible. Please read the contest rules again..and also check out the visual guidelines on the nudity clause for the contest. Also note the area about transparency in clothing.

http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=12176

Thanks

Sorry but i am still laughing! This is o poor you cant imagine.

Well, you are within your rights to laugh, but the rules of the contest is no nudity allowed. If you would like to resubmit, you have 6 days to do so.

Thanks

Quote - Well, you are within your rights to laugh, but the rules of the contest is no nudity allowed. If you would like to resubmit, you have 6 days to do so.

Thanks

No thank you!!! My next image is whith bloodsplash and heads whit holes like melons. This is not against Guidelines here, ROFL.

billy423uk, well of course you're entitled to your opinion on art, no argument there. :) A whole bunch of folks think Piccaso was excellent, personally I don't call that art (and yet his paintings bring in the money). I also know the mods are doing what they feel is their job. But what I feel is that a final ruling should be made on Aiko, either she looks wayyyy too young to class as adult or she is just a baby-faced adult (I was until my thirties). Then there wouldn't be a need for the mods to have to try to decided the issue. Simple...No????

Not really Blu, because as I keep saying its not about the character, its about the way its rendered to appear. You can have a V3 final rendered image to appear very very young. So even if we made a ruling on say Aiko, we still would have to remove images that appear to be under the age of 18 as stated in our TOS.

The point I keep trying to make is its not about what  character is used, not at all.

Awww crap i've ran out of popcorn. The thread hasn't even started to wander yet too. My guess is another page at least so i guess i'll need more popcorn. It's Stacey i feel for, I'm sorry girl but you're only going to get a headache and that wall will still be there when you're done.

Goes to get a new bag of popcorn

Jack

Can you get me something for my headache when you're getting you new bag of popcorn please?:)

Shakes head sadly Sorry Stacey, that sort of headache comes with the job. It will go away though... well, until the next time.

Sits back, opens new bag and waits for page 5

oh and Jack, while you are at it, could you bring me some tranquilizer please ;D
btw. popcorn is a good idea indeed - have to test my new popcorn machine :)

Stacey, I sympathise, I really do. It can't be easy trying to placate a bunch of fractious folks like us!

C'mon people let it rest. We've done this argument a thousand times. It all comes down to this: it's Rendo's site, so it's Rendo's rules. If we don't like the rules, we can go somewhere with rules we prefer (which is more than we can do in the real world). BUT - Rendo is a business, and they are not going to risk being put out of business because some idiot complains that they are showing nude images of what look like children. And there such people out there.

For a bit of light relief, I saw in a a newspaper today that Tesco (huge UK market chain) are selling a 'home pole dancing kit' (I kid you not). So some killjoy complains to a newspaper, and before you know it some other pillock is complaining that kids ought not to be exposed to this stuff. As the writer put it, the only really offensive thing was that the price was £50 for a piece of elastic and half a shower curtain support.

The mods are doing a pretty good job IMHO. If they remove an image, it's because it breaks the rules, not out of spite, and it's not an insult to the image or the artist. It would only be an insult if they said, 'we're removing your image because it's crap' or some such.

Quote - I get what you're saying. You are confused about the nature of the rules and why they exist, you are angry about the current enforcement of the rules, and you are saddened by how you perceive some artists have been treated. I get that. But you haven't answered my question. What do you want to do about it? What do you think should be done? Do you think anything should be done at all? Do you just want to wring your hands and say it's a shame? I respect your right to do that, but I keep hoping that you'll offer some thoughts on specific actions that can be taken to help reduce the distress that started this thread in the first place.

I have a feeling this has a lot more to do with the rules than whether the image crossed the line or just sat on it.  For the most part, this site is fair.  But there have been instances where it wasn't.   A big instance that comes to mind is when the freestuff went to an approval system.  All well and good until they decided to cull items that they weren't comfortable with and started handing out warning and "marks on records" for items they had previously approved.  That was wrong no matter how it's spun. 

But it's something you deal with when dealing with a committee.   Perspective will not be the same.  Opinions wont be the same and I agree that they couldn't possibly base a decision on the mesh and should instead base it on final render.   That needs to be accepted and go from there.

Quote - while you are at it, could you bring me some tranquilizer please ;D

Hee hee... :lol:

LOL:) Thanks!!!

Quote -

For a bit of light relief, I saw in a a newspaper today that Tesco (huge UK market chain) are selling a 'home pole dancing kit' (I kid you not).

OoOoOoooo I want one really bad LOL Actually I thought of that a while back to get into some sort of shape and figured why not let my honey benefit from it too LOL Soooo, if you by any chance have a website for it handy.. send it my way please?

Attached Link: http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.100-4792.aspx

Quote - Your wish is my command - see the link for the 'Peekaboo pole dancing kit'

Thank you very much :)

You know, there really has to be a solution to this. It has come up in forum postings so many times, it's really almost silly.

One one hand we have people saying it's not the mesh, it's the final render using that mesh.

One the other hand, we  have people saying AIko is not a child, teen or adult, but Anime and therefore should not fall under the child nudity guidelines.

One thing I think everyone can agree on is that the Aiko mesh is the common problem in this situation. I've made a character for Aiko. I did my best to give her some maturity and have her appear over the age of 18. I won't swear I succeeded. Simply because the person who has that character can always spin dials to make her look younger. And that's not hard to do because the Aiko mesh is borderline as far as age goes straight out of the box without any morphs applied.

So knowing this... that the Aiko mesh is borderline, why not go ahead and have her declared to fall under the child nudity guidelines? To those who declare that she is Anime and should not fall into this catagory, that really doesn't have any meaning in this situation. Anime or realistic, she is still borderline.

Back when the child nudity guidelines were re-constructed, there was a lot of uproar and protesting. If the Aiko mesh should be declared to not be allowed to be portrayed nude or with very little clothing, you're going to have more uproar and protests. Keep in mind a few things, though.

The uproar over the new child nudity guidelines faded out once people relealized that this was the rule and it would be enforced. Protest and uproar over a  new ruling in the Aiko mesh will fade out as well once people understand that this is the new rule and will be enforced.

Another thing to consider, it will stop this type of thread eventually.  People cannot say they didn't know. It would be in the rules plain and clear.

Another type of thread it would stop is the one where someone says...."So and So's image wasn't removed. Why was mine?" If So and So has a nude image of Aiko, that one is removed as  well. No if, ands, or buts about it. And  yes, if you already have these types of images in your gallery already, then they will have to be removed. As well as any of the Aiko mesh in the MP that has nudity in it. Not fair, you say? They were already approved? So were many, many nude fae images that were declared to no longer be acceptable to the new guidelines.  But they had to be removed because of a new ruling.

Best of all.... clear, precise guidelines without confusion. Without having to send your image to a  mod or admin to get approval. You know what is allowed  and what is not. If you decide to post an image that skirts the rulings, then the risk is on you and, as much as you might feel you have the right to protest, you knew the rules when you did it and therefore you must have been  ready to face the consequences of it.

Perhaps not the best solution, but it is one that has been offered.

I understand where you are coming from Unicornst but the problem with that is it isn't always Aiko and we haven't declared any particuliar character adult or not since its not the character that matters.  There are many images with Aiko that are fine due to the appearance of the final rendered image so I'm not sure the answer is to say all Aiko images shouldn't be nude or should be looked at as underage. 

Well, I did say perhaps not the best solution. But at least I tried to offer one. grin

I'm not really sure what the answer would be either. It is definitely a cause of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Dang it, I meant to say Thank you for offering your suggestion.  I really do appreciate any solutions offered that we could entertain.

Quote - Dang it, I meant to say Thank you for offering your suggestion.  I really do appreciate any solutions offered that we could entertain.

 

LOL..... it's okay. I wasn't thinking of thanks. Must admit, though, it's much better than being shot for it. Which could still happen. Unless people have already gotten tired of this subject. grin

shovals another handfull of popcorn into mouth

No, no, keep going, better than TV this. Seriously though, I think Rendo have got this pretty much about right. It's a shame that artists' feathers do get ruffled when they have an image pulled. And of course some of them feel the need to vent in the forums But as the staff are okay with having to go through this every few weeks then fine. Just to put my tuppence in though, it might be an idea to include the 'if an image is nude and, in the opinion of the staff, looks under 18 etc.'  message in big red letters on the header to the poser forum.

Anywho, bed time for me (out of popcorn again)

Jack

Well, with my 51 years of age I´m just one of the older generation here. My point of view is, that it is correct that we don´t need child-porn or children erotics here. Aiko-realistic is from my point of view a young woman of 18 till 25 years of age. Only Aiko is a toon figure, and a toon is a toon like Micky Mouse or Dasy Duck. So I really can´t see any problems.

To say the truth, I "Play your game" and use already a nudity flag when my character is rearing a Bikini or anything else. For me, they aren´t nude in this moment, and for me, nobody must use a nudity flag for a swimmsuit or blouse with deep neckline, a mini-panty qo.

I really wonder, who is really shocked to see a computer-generatet figur with panty ,bikini top, transparent blouse or ...nude?  I think there is also a different between photos and rendered or painted images.

And sorry, I also think that the "report an image" link is only good for the view megalomaniac here who l-o-v-e to report. They love to search for something else that they can report. These persons are not shocked, they only love to denigrate. They like to have a bit "lordship" over others here. Gallery-bullying ;-)  I haven´t this probleme yet, but I know from others!

Well, these are my thoughts about this probleme.

@jevans69:
THX I already can feel how it takes effect - I start to feel more an more relaxed.... siiiigh
Thank you very much - your picture is very much appreciated for it gave me quite a laugh - I really needed that - you saved my day buddy :D !!

Quote - Only Aiko is a toon figure, and a toon is a toon like Micky Mouse or Dasy Duck.

According to Disney, Mickey Mouse is some 60 year old Rodent - pretty good plastic surgery if you ask me ;) Although if you ask me, I wouldn't want to see Mickey Mouse nudie either LOL

Quote - > Quote - Only Aiko is a toon figure, and a toon is a toon like Micky Mouse or Dasy Duck.

According to Disney, Mickey Mouse is some 60 year old Rodent - pretty good plastic surgery if you ask me ;) Although if you ask me, I wouldn't want to see Mickey Mouse nudie either LOL

:lol: nice play of words !!

@**jevans69, Could ya send me about a truckload of those pills? :lol:
**

Maybe there should be some guidelines of what makes you think the image is under 18. Is it the face? Or the body? Or what?

Maybe show us two images. One for under and one for over.

I'm at the point now, concerning this type of thread, where I'd just say put some dang clothes on the poor girl and avoid this whole situation!

I actually liked the idea of getting users/artists involved in the decision making process.  Maybe you could assemble a pool of volunteers who you could rotate through to have them give input here and there.  Then at least you'd be able to say it wasn't all up to the Mods and deflect some of the criticism.

I myself saw the image and don't think she looked at all underage...obviously others thought she did or we wouldn't be having this conversation.  Maybe release the vote tallies to the people involved too so they can see if they're way out of line with everybody else or it was really close.

I do think the warnings need to be reworded better though.  I got one a while back for something that was more based on POV than actual violations and man...the e-mail just seemed so...rude's not the right word, but accusatorial maybe.  For a first time offense when none was meant it just came across in very much the wrong manner. 

Or maybe inform people before pulling the image so they can make corrective actions without needing to feel like a criminal.

Whether she looked over or under 18, it's clear that something needs to change somewhere along the way.  And IMO just outlawing nudity of Aiko doesn't at all solve the issue.

Along those lines, just what constitutes nudity?  I always thought an arm or hand strategically placed was good enough to not be nude, but apparently it's not from what I see of the Halloween contest rules.

The contest rules are not the same as the standard gallery image rules, just FYI.

Rules and Guidelines are only good IF they are used in a consistent manner.  The thing about determining the AGE of some Poser characters is subjective at best.  Just searching the gallery for AIKO does bring up ALOT of discrepancies. (At least to me.)  Hey, but that's just MY perception.

So, what If a possible TOS violation is not initially perceived as one?  That’s would be a pretty major chink in the chain, RIGHT?

Ok, let say I'm a Poser mod/coord and its my night/shift to scan the gallery for issues.  I come across a Nude of Aiko, she sort of, kind of, looks 16ish to me (face wise), but I figure that’s pretty close to 18, so what the hell...just let it go! 

So, are there any checks and balances  in place to ensure that an image is not overlooked in this way?  Do all the gallery images with the Content Advisory flags get escalated for a group vote?  If not, maybe they should be.  At least this way, images are being reviewed by more admin, instead of just one or 2 staff members.

This could possibly save RR and it valued members a whole lot of  grief, but again that's just my perception of things.

Now where is that 2 cents?

I  recently had a contest entry with a nude Nybrus ( a non gendered, genitalless creature for which no clothing is available) pulled from a Rendo contest . I had to render a pair of Hongyu panties with an Hmann belt and cut and paste it on Nybrus, to resubmit. Millions of naked ken dolls are in the hands of children.

Contests or gallery, some common sense has to be applied to the rules.

@Joeanomaly
Contests or gallery, some common sense has to be applied to the rules
I agree, this is really a Joke. Zombies, Ghost brushes,Nybras LOL sorry but this is really unbelievable.
But ist nice, Honguyo pants on nybras. LOL But my contest image i cant safe. Tell me how covering on ghost brushes which are allready blured and smuged the breast. 

...quelle surprise...

so sorry to see this all happening with you Bill. I have seen the image, and it was inoffensive...

and it's so nice to see the moderators/coordinators joking around so much...I'm sure that makes Primaltruck feel all the better.

shrug...quelle surprise

Quote - ...quelle surprise... so sorry to see this all happening with you Bill. I have seen the image, and it was inoffensive...

The image wasn't pulled because it was offensive. Have you read this thread so far?

Quote - and it's so nice to see the moderators/coordinators joking around so much...I'm sure that makes Primaltruck feel all the better. shrug...quelle surprise

It's not the job of the moderators and coordinators to make people feel better. This is not a kindergarden, and primaltruck did not skin his knee. I believe that some attempt was made to help primaltruck see things in a little more rational manner, which is a testament to the kind-heartedness of the mods. And if you think the mods here don't have kind hearts, you haven't visited enough Internet forums.

Now, you can aim a little of that sarcasm in my direction, if you like; I was the one bashing him for his public temper tantrum. I'm not a mod or a coordinator, just a plain ol' R'osity netizen. Hmm.... perhaps I'm not as interesting a target. Ah, well.

Captain Jack

Quote - ... Contests or gallery, some common sense has to be applied to the rules.

A lot of people don't know this, so I thought I'd share: The phrase "common sense" derives from an ancient Aramaic expression meaning "my opinion which is shared with some of my aquaintances which differs from yours and constitutes natural law, so there".

And yes, Virginia, that was sarcasm.

Captain Jack

Sure thing... lemmee get ol' "Bessie" warmed up, get me a trailer, and I'll be on the road. :lol:

Quote - The decision was made by the TEAM as Karen stated, not one moderator. There is no bias against Aiko at all. If the final rendered image is nude and appears under 18 then its against our TOS.

Primal,

Please contact admin@renderosity.com if you have any concerns regarding your image removal.

 

The Community Center forum is not designed for this type of thread so let's move on and if you have a concern please contact the appropriate email address.

Hmmm why then wasn't the decision made by the "team" when I was asked to take down one of my images?

BDC:

Hmmm why then wasn't the decision made by the "team" when I was asked to take down one of my images?

It was.

Quote - > Quote - ...quelle surprise... so sorry to see this all happening with you Bill. I have seen the image, and it was inoffensive...

The image wasn't pulled because it was offensive. Have you read this thread so far?

Well, actually I READ every word of this thread...the term "inoffensive" can have a much broader meaning than the narrow one you have chosen to apply.

Quote -> Quote - and it's so nice to see the moderators/coordinators joking around so much...I'm sure that makes Primaltruck feel all the better. shrug...quelle surprise

It's not the job of the moderators and coordinators to make people feel better. This is not a kindergarden, and primaltruck did not skin his knee. I believe that some attempt was made to help primaltruck see things in a little more rational manner, which is a testament to the kind-heartedness of the mods. And if you think the mods here don't have kind hearts, you haven't visited enough Internet forums.

Sorry, but it IS the job of the moderators/coordinators to handle a matter such as this in a serious manner...several of them have stated repeatedly in this thread (as well as in the past threads) that...{assumes serious voice} these situations are discussed as a team, fairly & seriously (dare I say "professionally"?), behind the scenes and a consensus "vote" is taken. {ends serious voice} Yet the public demeanor & remarks of some of these same people in this thread reflects nothing but joking around and a total lack of seriousness. If I were Primaltruck, it would make me wonder if that's the way matters such as these are actually handled behind the scenes...lots of jokes, wisecracks and mockery (like the kindergarden you mentioned, perhaps?)...despite their claims to the contrary...

To my sensibility, NOT very professional behavior and not how the representatives of this site should be behaving...

but this is nothing new...in fact, NONE of this is new...the situation, the behavior, comments like yours...

...people either have their eyes open or their eyes closed...

Cliff,

Several staff members have been involved in this thread and have over the course of the 5 pages, discussed and responded respectfully, etc.   Its also okay to have a few lighthearted moments in the discussion to help keep the thread from becoming unproductive.

I'm sorry that you feel the way you do but we have taken this seriously.

Thanks

Quote - Well, actually I READ every word of this thread...the term "inoffensive" can have a much broader meaning than the narrow one you have chosen to apply.

Well, my unabridged dictionary of English actually has two definitions for "inoffensive", and seven for "offensive". Regardless of the number, my statement is still true. The image was not pulled because it was offensive. I haven't seen it, I can't say for sure whether I would find the image offensive or not, which is irrelevant in any case. Let me rephrase my statement, to try to make it clearer: The reason the image was pulled had nothing to do with whether anyone thought it was or was not offensive. The word offensive, in any of it's meanings, does not apply in any way to the reasons why the image was pulled. The image was pulled for reasons that are in no way related to its propensity for causing offense or it's inherent offensive nature, if any. Does that help? If the word "offensive" had a meaning of "covered in blue polka dots", it still would not have applied to the reason why the image was pulled.

Quote - Sorry, but it IS the job of the moderators/coordinators to handle a matter such as this in a serious manner...several of them have stated repeatedly in this thread (as well as in the past threads) that...{assumes serious voice} these situations are discussed as a team, fairly & seriously (dare I say "professionally"?), behind the scenes and a consensus "vote" is taken. {ends serious voice} Yet the public demeanor & remarks of some of these same people in this thread reflects nothing but joking around and a total lack of seriousness. If I were Primaltruck, it would make me wonder if that's the way matters such as these are actually handled behind the scenes...lots of jokes, wisecracks and mockery (like the kindergarden you mentioned, perhaps?)...despite their claims to the contrary... To my sensibility, NOT very professional behavior and not how the representatives of this site should be behaving... but this is nothing new...in fact, NONE of this is new...the situation, the behavior, comments like yours...

Oh, crap. The matter has been handled in a professional manner. And, in my opnion, an unbelievable amount of patience and self control. All of the jokes and humor (from the mods and coordinators) have been about unrelated issues in response to unrelated comments by other members. My jokes, humor, barbs, and sarcasm, have all been directed elsewhere, of course. My privilege, because I'm not charged with maintaining order and decorum 'round here. I suspect that what you're accusing them of is really that they didn't pat the poor boy on the head and go, "there, there, we're so sorry we hurt your feelings".

I'm still not quite sure why you're taking pot-shots at them. Forum moderators in most places have to maintain a certain neutrality which prevents them in most cases from venting their own personal feelings.

Sure, none of it is new. I've been seeing this sort of temper tantrum followed up by goggle-eyed group hugs from people who think the forum moderators are evil and insensitive demons since I got my first modem back in the 80's. My guess is that you think primaltruck's outrage, as well as your outrage, is perfectly justified, and that I'm in the wrong somehow for reacting the way that I have. It probably doesn't occur to you that I'm every bit as outraged at the public display of childishness that started this thread off. "Comments like mine" aren't new, and will continue to arrive; many of them will continue to come from me.

Quote - ...people either have their eyes open or their eyes closed...

Which, to my ears, sounds like you might as well be saying, "people either agree with me, or their wrong". I'll save other people the trouble and go ahead and interject that I'm being arrogant, and probably worse. But i don't think other people are wrong for believing what they believe. I don't think you're wrong, I don't think primaltruck is wrong. I don't like the way he acted, which is my opinion only. I've jumped in several times to provide factual data to people who appear to be misinformed or are confusing their opinions with factual data.

My eyes are fully wide open, and I can see quite clearly from hear. Probably more than you realize.

Captain Jack

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2670450

Better check that thread and see what strict and tough are.  95% of the images in the galleries here wouldn't make it passed the moderators there for upload.

looks at the size of dat pill.....how big a trailer you need? :lol: Maybe I will just take a few of those pills...I can always take smaller doses by breaking chunks off right?

runs outside and waits on the delivery

Quote - looks at the size of dat pill.....how big a trailer you need? :lol: Maybe I will just take a few of those pills...I can always take smaller doses by breaking chunks off right?

runs outside and waits on the delivery

Just be thankful that it's an oral medication.