But it drives me NUTS when a vendor labels a product "not tested in daz studio" and there is no way that the product will ever in a million years work in daz. Examples would be Poser material sets or clothes that only have poser materials applied. Anything that depends on nodes or procedural materials is just not going to work properly in Studio. I think this gripes me more than the products that should be compatible but the vendors can't be hassled to do any daz testing because if you were not paying attention you might actually believe it was just an unwillingness to test in daz rather than will never work in studio.

I comes down to one thing.
Those particular venders have themselfs
up on a pedestal and think that DAZ users are peons.
And do not want our money. They consider us
second class citizens and believe that our money
would disgrace them.
I myself believe DAZ a superior product and yes I
do have Poser 4,5,6,7 and Pro. There are more and
more venders starting to test in DAZ. There is just to
much money to lose if YOU, and you know who you
are, do not test in DAZ.

WhatS really worse is designing something for a DAZ figure
and having it only for Poser The nerve of them.

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE DAZ THEN QUIT USING THERE PRODUCTS AND STICK
TO YOUR OWN FIGURES. OH YEA THE DAZ ONES ARE BETTER.
TO BAD TEST IN DAZ OR GO BACK TO YOUR MIKI AND SYDNEY.

DAZ IS FREE NO EXCUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I better quit i'm getting madder an madder.

At least you made me smile. I suspect most of us feel that way. I have a mental list of people I wouldn't buy from even if they did stop saying snarky things about DS. Heck I even had someone decided to not work with us because I wanted what ever we did to be daz compatible.

I started wondering though…. I wonder how many of them are also keeping their products from being properly compatible with carrara and Vue? It's one thing to ignore maybe one hundred thousand customers its another thing all together to realize your cutting yourself out of  three add ional markets not one.

I think our best revenge will be to wait them out and when daz (face it they are the group actively building the market and brining in the new blood) numbers are over posers.. Well it will be interesting to see what happens won't it?

Quote - WhatS really worse is designing something for a DAZ figure
and having it only for Poser The nerve of them.

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE DAZ THEN QUIT USING THERE PRODUCTS AND STICK
TO YOUR OWN FIGURES. OH YEA THE DAZ ONES ARE BETTER.
TO BAD TEST IN DAZ OR GO BACK TO YOUR MIKI AND SYDNEY.

DAZ IS FREE NO EXCUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I better quit i'm getting madder an madder.

One of the biggest problems I have is finding tester who use Daz Studio when I develop a figure or clothing, and I don't think it is just me. Remember most of us "older" Poser users are set in our ways and we don't all use D|S.  I was finally able to just get it installed and working with the latest 2.2 release, before that I was still using D|S 1.5 cause it was stable.

Most vendors and content creators will put that "NOT TESTED" label on there because the product was not tested in Studio and may not have had any tester that use Studio. Also remember that Studio is still young compared to Poser . I know most of my items I have in my store will work in D|S cause I had personally tested them. Not all of my items will not work correctly in studio due to some are Dynamic Clothing.

It is not a higher than thou attitude towards studio users.

Quote - I comes down to one thing.
Those particular venders have themselfs
up on a pedestal and think that DAZ users are peons.
And do not want our money. They consider us
second class citizens and believe that our money
would disgrace them.

Hi im a Vendor and i think your are talking BullSh!t !

Why does my stuff have not tested in DS ? because i dont understand DS "yet"
And when i put in Works in DS i HAVE to be able to provide support when something does not work.
When i cant provide good support for DS on my products i should not put in "works In DS"

I check every thing i make in DS.
And in the future i might be able to put in "works in DS" when im 100% sure it works 100%

what you write is a brainless scribble and is a attack on Me and All other Vendors.
And i dont know if you ever did but please dont BUY from me
People with a attitude like yours i dont care for

Greetings
Chris

**Khory,

The simple fact is, most products for Poser will work in Studio as well except for those cases where a product relies strictly on Poser shaders and materials or if it's dynamic. BUT...not every buyer will realize this and if the vendor cannot provide support for Studio, then that disclaimer must be placed on the product page. It's a sort of "Buyer Beware" type thing. If you see a statement that it was not tested in Studio and support for it's use cannot be be supported, then it's up to you to take the risk that you can make it work in Studio.

The other simple fact is that not everyone likes Studio and they have the right not to use. Being a vendor does not change that right nor is it written anywhere that a vendor must make a product for both Poser and Studio.  Personally, I gave up on Studio long ago when they came out with the version that you HAD to use in order to use V4.2. That version would not work for me regardless of what I tried and even tech support at Daz gave up on trying to get it to work. Since I can no longer support a product's use in Studio, I make use of that disclaimer myself. Not saying my products won't work in Studio. Just that I can't provide the support of them in Studio.
**

Quote - WhatS really worse is designing something for a DAZ figure
and having it only for Poser The nerve of them.

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE DAZ THEN QUIT USING THERE PRODUCTS AND STICK
TO YOUR OWN FIGURES. OH YEA THE DAZ ONES ARE BETTER.
TO BAD TEST IN DAZ OR GO BACK TO YOUR MIKI AND SYDNEY.

DAZ IS FREE NO EXCUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I better quit i'm getting madder an madder.

Do you remember when DAZ started?  It was a Poser only brokerage because they hadn't started developing Studio!

Studio is very young compared to Poser so get off your high horse. 

Frankly, I can do things in Poser that I can't do in Studio.  My character/texture sets go way into the shader nodes and they, simply, will not work in Studio.  I label my products as not compatible with Studio and I state in the Readme that I will offer no support for Studio.

You may consider it to be superior but until DAZ gets the dynamics right and enables support for the deep shader nodes it isn't.  What it is ... it's easier to use, not as steep a learning curve but it's definitely not superior because it doesn't handle dynamics or deep nodes.

FYI, I have been using Poser since Ver. 3 and Studio since it first came out.  I have yet to find a way to make my character textures look as good in Studio as they do in Poser, even under the most rudimentary light sets (which is another failing in Studio, IMHO).

This inane attack on vendors who let people know their products are not tested in, not compatible with and not supported for Studio is mindless.  Better would have been a question as to why rather than ranting.  If a vendor does not test in Studio, that is their choice.  Even as a consumer (yes, I buy stuff too) I understand that what the vendor chooses to test in is exactly that, a choice.  Once DAZ gets Studio up to par then I'll worry about it.  Right now it's still in its infancy and isn't ready for a lot of us who use shader nodes and procedurals in our products.

Quote - I comes down to one thing.
Those particular venders have themselfs
up on a pedestal and think that DAZ users are peons.
And do not want our money. They consider us
second class citizens and believe that our money
would disgrace them.
I myself believe DAZ a superior product and yes I
do have Poser 4,5,6,7 and Pro. There are more and
more venders starting to test in DAZ. There is just to
much money to lose if YOU, and you know who you
are, do not test in DAZ.

I no longer create products for Poser - but if I did then the only reason they wouldn't be tested for D|S is because I don't use it, not because I have any animosity toward people that do. I just never mastered it and stuck with Poser.   IMO there I've seen many D|S renders that are far superior to those done in Poser. 

Some of my joint products (the 3D ROR sets) had a problem working with D|S but we found the issue, resolved it and now they work fine in both programmes. 

Please do not bash people who only use Poser and do not have the time to learn another programme.  Yes, it is our/their loss but it's also their choice.

Yea I guess I forget that sometimes.
It just gets frustrating That an item made for a DAZ
product does not work in DAZ. Luckily I use both
Poser and DAZ so most items I can get to work any way.
Now that the little Rum I had last night wore off. I
Guess I was upset at something. Sorry.
I do know there are people out there that would gladly
test products for venders I have read many statements to
that fact. And yes DAZ is young but I believe it will
surpass Poser.

Quote - Yea I guess I forget that sometimes.
It just gets frustrating That an item made for a DAZ
product does not work in DAZ. Luckily I use both
Poser and DAZ so most items I can get to work any way.
Now that the little Rum I had last night wore off. I
Guess I was upset at something. Sorry.
I do know there are people out there that would gladly
test products for venders I have read many statements to
that fact. And yes DAZ is young but I believe it will
surpass Poser.

Look at it this way ... Poser 3 was, in no way, as advanced as Poser 7 or Poser Pro (which I don't have yet) and you just can't expect a new program to have all the bells and whistles that older programs have.  Poser has been around for years and years and has evolved.

I have nothing against Studio except that I don't think they're taking it in a direction that will provide the end user a viable alternative (again, just MHO) because it's becoming V4 concentric and doesn't really support all the things Poser does.  That, of course, is DAZ's option since it's their program but if they truly want it to replace Poser for the majority of users they're going to have to do some work on the shaders and dynamic support.

Most of us who make products for Poser characters would, gladly, support Studio if it provided a broader range of functionality.  I know that I, myself, am trying to learn how to adjust the shaders so that they can be saved in Studio and, therefore, offer support for Studio but it's not easy and there isn't a lot of information out there as to how when you go as deep into the Poser shader tree as I do.  My newest characters use over 30 node settings in most areas of the character and Studio simply won't support those nor am I able to save them as Studio shaders.  Until that happens I won't be supporting Studio because it would be futile.

I agree on the Shader problem that does need to be addressed.
I will say this If there was a way to set Poser Pro or 7 up so that
it navigated more like Carrar, 3DS or DAZ I would probably
use it a lot more. Its just to cumbersome and slow.
By Slow I mean in moving around to find and do things.

Anyway to the venders Yes it is your right to do what you want.
I was upset at something else when I read the above. And well
All I can say is Sorry.

My issue is the phrase "not tested in daz studio" rather than the correct statement "will not work in daz studo" for products that are shader materials or heavy on nodes. "Not tested" indicates it COULD be and there for it is possible that with work the product could be made to work properly.

Khory...You've been sent private site mail, please.

 My products arent tested in daz studio - why? because i downloaded it once and hated the interface and couldnt understand how any of it worked.... that is my personal preferance... and yeah i'm dumb when it comes to technical stuff like that, i cant wrap my brain around it... i dont know even know the full extent of what Poser is capable of .... i'm a simpleton .. what more can i say ?

i put a disclaimer on my latest product that they will work in daz studio however manual tweaking may be required to achieve desired results...

i'm sorry that my products have NOT TESTED In D|S ... but its the truth and i've not recieved any complaints from any sales made.

Artemis
Thats because your stuff works great in DAZ
Why i do not Know they just do.

I normally have no problem with stuff unless its
to dynamic or a problem with shader’s.
All in all thinking about it DAZ could fix the
Problem with shader’s I would think.
Even if it says Will Not Work in DAZ If it something
I need I usually can make it work unless it’s a coding
problem now that gets tough.    Poser calls for some things
a little different.

It's a very simple issue with that DAZ vs. Poser thing for me. Most things i do will work in DS - but they will not look the same as I use material settings that DS does not offer. Same goes with the lights. I know that several customers use my products in both applications. But as they don't look like I want them to look (in other words: As promised in the promotional images and wording) I can not simply recommend them for DS.

Of course I could build up things that look quite similar by purchasing a bunch of add-on's that offer better materials and more options for light and creating my products by making use of these plug-ins. But selling with "DS with this, that and this add-on required" is, IMHO, very bad business as long as I sell here and not over at DAZ. I prefer to offer things that just require the purchase of the base-application and at least a figure. Anything else requires too much money being spent before the customer is able to use a product.

Off of that I have only one more thing to say: there once was an old-fashioned idea about thinking before writing when you are angry. I think it should come in fashion again!

Here's my take on it. I've opened DAZ studio about a dozen times, not because I don;t like it, actually in a lot of ways I think it's a better interface than Poser, BUT most of what I do anymore is "content creation" of some type and Studio doesn;t have the creation tool set that Poser has (I know, I know it's coming and I may wind up switching when it finally gets here, but I'm talking about NOW) So the TIME more than the effort to learn D/S enough to test in it is just not a high priority at this point.

So I usually put NOT TESTED IN DAZ STUDIO. It's a warning, for the most part all but the a couple of my products SHOULD work in D/S (and from reports from customers it does) but I can;t help trouble shoot it if there is a problem. For the most part it's textures that won;t work and with add-on texture packs what doesn;t work out of the box probably will with on of the add-on texture pacls.

 Now my latest product doesn;t have that warning because the person I collaborated with DOES use D/S and created a seperate set of textures that fit the D/S criteria. I know the models should work (and they were tested this time, but not by me :( ) since I try to conform to DAZ's requirements.

Still concidering DAZ's improvements to D/S (sub-D anyone?) I can see a lot of migration in that direction and as soon as they publish a set of creators tools I WILL learn the program. I won't be leaving Poser but adding D/S to the workflow.

M.

Hm. There are several things I don't do.
I'm not offering support in pre-christian icelandic, because I don't speak that language.
I'm not brokering with other companies than Renderosity, because I don't want to.
I'm not designing character packs that can be rendered on pocket calculators, because the results are not really good.
I'm not offering files for people who don't use a computer at all, no matter how good their backward engineering was.

I will not artificially cripple my products to make them compatible to anything, incl. Daz(TM)Studio - if I wanted to do so, I wouldn't use Poser.

And I am not looking over my shoulder expecting to see somebody who could force me to work for a specific market.

So what's the point?

(This message was not tested in Daz(TM)Studio)

My Brother and I argue over this a lot I think he’s starting to get the jist of it though.
He had a little to much Rum last night He’s not a drinker and three messed him up.
My Bad!   HeHe god it was funny.
Any way SaintFox His brain was fried and I’ll here about this later but I wanted you
guys to know we do use a lot of your guys stuff with little to no problems. Keep up
the good work.
I do not get on here much I just read them. He does know Daz3D pretty well though
I like Poser 6, any way I’m rambling, so don’t raze him to much I got him drunk.

This approves what I said: Think before you write - and don't write if you are (temporarily) not able to think... :b_funny:

It doesn't bother me when it puts not tested in D|S, though it is nice to know if it is using material shaders and such.. or Dynamic Cloth.  I did see a vendor recently put out a product that had a poser / ds / carrara version well you got all of them when you purchased and they are having a great response.  BUT not everyone wants to do that.

BTW If anyone needs some testing done in Carrara / D|S give me a shout if I have time I can see how it shapes up.

Hmmmmm, well most of our products work in DAZ, I certainly don't know why, because ours like many has not been tested for DAZ usage, that is not to say that someday they won't.  I just need time to learn all these programs and their never seems to be enough time to create models get them up for sale and then test them again.  I have tested n most other programs but alas not DAZ yet.

That is not to say it won't be, just have not gotten to it.  Sharen

Here we go again. Thinking before you write is always a good idea. I specifically state that particular products of mine will not work in D|S, because they make extensive use of shader nodes. I am not going to provide bitmap textures for every nut, bolt and bit of detail in a product. I'm simply not. The UV mapping alone would drive me insane. If you don't like it, bad luck, frankly. I get sick of people attacking vendors for not doing this or not supporting that. The proposition that we all should be supporting Vue and Carrara as well is also ridiculous. Why not add LightWave, Max, XSI et al to the list as well? Vendors choose what products they support and that's that. Dumping on people because they don't support a particular product only serves to get them offside and more than likely decreases your chances of ever seeing support for it.
If you want products to support D|S, go and annoy DAZ to put in a proper surface editor, one that allows you to build decent shaders, rather than just setting gloss and reflectance values. Until that happens, you're unlikely to see D|S support take off.

*If you want products to support D|S, go and annoy DAZ to put in a proper surface editor, one that allows you to build decent shaders, rather than just setting gloss and reflectance values.

DAZ is a free application - so I think that it is a bit too much to expect it to have all the material-options, volumetric light, dynamics and so on already included. And as said: As long as people have to spend the same amount in plug-ins that they would pay for Poser (at least during a sale or introductionary phase) to create results that are half-way close to those you get from Poser I see few sense in making high-end products for it because I have no clue how many of the users own the plug-ins that offer more options.*

Quote - Hmmmmm, well most of our products work in DAZ, I certainly don't know why, because ours like many has not been tested for DAZ usage, that is not to say that someday they won't.  I just need time to learn all these programs and their never seems to be enough time to create models get them up for sale and then test them again.  I have tested n most other programs but alas not DAZ yet.

That is not to say it won't be, just have not gotten to it.  Sharen

I agree it can be a daunting task.  gives a chuckles creating the models/textures/shaders for even just one keeps things flowing so to speak :)

Of course for those really wanting it in one of the non-tested or unsupported platform due to anything from technological issues to time to no real desire to add another platform.  It could be anything from  Different Shader trees, or for the myriad of other reasons.  Perhaps you could 'fix/adjust/design' it up and talk with the original vender/maker and offer a side grade add-on to the original product.  Just like some create great models and just okay textures.  Some are fantastic on textures but just okay on modeling etc.  This way the Vender/Maker isn't bogged down creating X number of versions for X number of platforms.

If you think it would sell then talk to them and see if that VUE or Carrara or D|S add-on takes off/worth it.  Some things won't like dynamic cloth perhaps.  But you might have to re-do certain things from shaders, to lights, to settings.  We are getting into beyond just plug a model in and go when your talking 'cross' platform.  Its like someone making new textures for a dress, just expanded a bit.
I hope this comes across okay.

 i have carrara - but the plug in for it to use it for poser or whatever its called does not work on my Mac, and my Mac does not support it, i use the latest Mac version .... 

Thanks rick I really needed that, Not!
You guys are right we are barking up the wrong tree
I was talking to DAZ, not really getting any were.
But seriously DAZ needs to fix the shader and
dynamic thing. Sometimes I get so frustrated, I now
DAZ is working on it so they say. I guess I could
learn poser better. I just get lost in Poser with Daz
I know were every thing is. In Poser its like click
here then over here maybe around the corner. Well
OK thats to much, but it takes to many steps to do
anything, and somethings I still cant find (oh yea Rick
just laughs his freaken head off, lota good that does so
I go back to DAZ) what I’m looking for. I’ve been using
DAZ sense I started with Bryce 2 I believe it was. I’ve been
trying Poser this year. (My brothers machine) I just pull my
hair out. Oh well sorry. The majority of you guys Make great
stuff. DAZ needs to catch up.

 Poser can be daunting Lighthorse, and as i've said in my earlier posts somewhere - i still dont know the full extent of what it can do, some of the tricks in poser's material room i've learnt from Aery Soul .... and yeah i still pull my hair out lol.

This again!?!?!

One more time for all those D|S users who missed it the first three time I've said it...

"The vast majority of Poser content will work in DAZ|Studio. Be careful when the product "not tested in DAZ|Studio" description mentions use of the material room, lights, and the word dynamic when paired with hair or cloth."

It's just that simple!

As a matter of fact it's just that simple for vendors as well. D|S doesn't take up too much disk space and reads the same runtime structure, it would only a few minutes to load the product and do a simple test render. Most of those who bring up this complaint are not expecting an optimum D|S preset, they just want to know if everything will load properly and be usable. That is not asking for much IMO.

Vendors could look to the "Vendor of the Year" (x2) for some clue as how to properly address this inconvenient Poser-like application. Aery Soul's most recent product presentation, Classic Fantasy, had a link offering Studio users a means to work around the material room dependancy. I applaud them for having an associate test for D|S and recomend other vendors to do the same. A couple of my friends have been asked to test products in D|S and if the right relationships could be formed Studio presets could emerge to enlarge the market audience of products offered at non-DAZ market sites.

Studio might not be as capable as Poser in certain areas but it's certainly growing. It's also offered free by a large content site that happens to offer the most popular line of figures. Meanwhile the compared app changes hands every 18 months with the most recent parent severing ties with affiliate market sites. Some major vendors have recently moved over to DAZ from those affiliates. I don't have magic powers or own a crystal ball but it doesn't take that to see the future of D|S looks less questionable than that of the implied competition. What... 13 months till Poser Pro++ Super Duper?

...

arcebus - Though your reply here is accurate to your personality it was not very fitting for a person attempting to collect profit through the sales of "self-made" products. Too much attitude, not enough flexibility. Are your four best selling products not dependant on a figure sold exclusively at DAZ?

(this reply tested and fully compatible in DAZ|Studio)

I always add the Not Tested In DazStudio on my products. I also put that my products are designed for poser 6 upwards due to shaders used.
Several times Ive had studio users message me and ask if they will work in daz and I am very honest tell them I dont use it and cannot offer support.
At the same time though I do offer to do non-shadered mats that are compatible with studio. I did this for my character Eloiny and sold a whole bunch more of her but also told the users that the skin wouldnt look exactly the same without the shaders. The customers have been happy with this and know if they see another that theyd like they can ask me and Ill make a non-shadered version. Ive had daz studio installed but prefer poser and the shaders in it.
If we made products compatible with every software wed never be creating at all lol . That or wed all be bald from tearing our hair out hehehe

I will not artificially cripple my products to make them compatible to anything, incl. Daz(TM)Studio - if I wanted to do so, I wouldn't use Poser.

Quote - I will not artificially cripple my products to make them compatible to anything, incl. Daz(TM)Studio - if I wanted to do so, I wouldn't use Poser.

I dont see it as crippling my products at all. I am very happy to make non-shadered versions for those who wish to use them in Daz Studio or even in poser 4. Like I said we cant support all software but I see no problem in offering non-shadered mats for those who wish to be able to use a product in a program that cannot read posers shader nodes.

So, with that in mind, as long as you have both trees in your file, you should be compatible in DAZ Studio. Both DAZ Studio and Poser 4 will ignore anything in the file that the software doesn't understand, so you can include the shader trees without fear.

The image shows the trees for one of the materials from my Gemini Bow and how they should appear in the file. Using this convention makes the bow compatible with Poser 4, Pro Pack and all other Poser Versions as well as DAZ Studio. It takes a bit of tedious hand editing of files and some tenacity but it isn't really too difficult.

The only thing I have yet to figure out is how to control that damn specular highlight in DAZ from my file (which is bright white and ON by default... grrrr)

I hope any of this helps.

~Will

NOTE: Of course if you use specific shader nodes in Poser that are a large part of the overall visual appeal of the product, then you may run into some roadbloacks. Displacement maps, items containing procedurals, etc etc... The best rule of thumb is to have someone test it in Poser 4 or DAZ Studio, if you know it works in Poser 4 then you have no real issues.

Quote - This again!?!?!

One more time for all those D|S users who missed it the first three time I've said it...

"The vast majority of Poser content will work in DAZ|Studio. Be careful when the product "not tested in DAZ|Studio" description mentions use of the material room, lights, and the word dynamic when paired with hair or cloth."

It's just that simple!

As a matter of fact it's just that simple for vendors as well. D|S doesn't take up too much disk space and reads the same runtime structure, it would only a few minutes to load the product and do a simple test render. Most of those who bring up this complaint are not expecting an optimum D|S preset, they just want to know if everything will load properly and be usable. That is not asking for much IMO.

Vendors could look to the "Vendor of the Year" (x2) for some clue as how to properly address this inconvenient Poser-like application. Aery Soul's most recent product presentation, Classic Fantasy, had a link offering Studio users a means to work around the material room dependancy. I applaud them for having an associate test for D|S and recomend other vendors to do the same. A couple of my friends have been asked to test products in D|S and if the right relationships could be formed Studio presets could emerge to enlarge the market audience of products offered at non-DAZ market sites.

Studio might not be as capable as Poser in certain areas but it's certainly growing. It's also offered free by a large content site that happens to offer the most popular line of figures. Meanwhile the compared app changes hands every 18 months with the most recent parent severing ties with affiliate market sites. Some major vendors have recently moved over to DAZ from those affiliates. I don't have magic powers or own a crystal ball but it doesn't take that to see the future of D|S looks less questionable than that of the implied competition. What... 13 months till Poser Pro++ Super Duper?

The biggest problem I see is that to make our products compatible with every new version of software on the market .. or new addtion to hit the scene.. is time. Time is also money. The more problematic thing is that most purchasers like us to see our product reasonably priced, but if I have to spend countless hours creating new files or checking compatibilty in a large number of programs to meet the demands of the masses, then of course the clientel will have to pay the price for it. I already test in every Poser version and it has become a daunting task keeping up and making all the necessary changes for compatibility's sake.

I realize that there is the argument that you "reach a broader market and thus sales increase" by doing so. But to tell you the truth, I haven't seen it. My products sell well; they have always sold well and my newest additions (that have been made compatible with Poser 4-7 and D|S) sell no worse or better than my oldest products (some from around 2003). Nor do any of my newest additions seem to sell more in volume. So the gist is that I have put much much more work into my newer products, kept the same low price as I always have but haven't really reaped any more monetary benefits from doing so.

Also, to bring down a hammer on Poser is quite ridiculous. Poser users are still the largest market and Poser isn't going anywhere anytime soon even if Smith Micro drops the ball. We saw Poser 4 live on for many years, virtually unchanged, before the release of Poser 5 and instead of faultering or fizzling out, it's userbase had actually grown by leaps and bounds.

One cannot argue that DAZ Studio, itself, is little more than a clone. Perhaps the rendering engine may be a bit better but it's functionality is lacking. Also, what is lacking is it's ease of use for content creation. Most of us, content creators, prefer to focus much of our time and effort into content creation not fiddling with convoluted scripting languages to make files work properly for our products. Poser's scripting for files is easily understood and can be quickly learned, but in comparison finger through a DAZ script sometime. I often wonder if the nature of the confusing script used wasn't somehow intentional? Why is it that DAZ Studio can import Poser file formats and read Poser's scripting format and yet it cannot output something similar in convention? It couldn't be legal reasoning because we all create content using the same format. I'm not saying that they had to use the exact scripting format as Poser, but their convention is very far from the Poser convention. They were able to include a compiler which compiles to binary format, but they have made it fairly difficult for content creators outside of the DAZ circle and have certainly made it even that much more difficult to create one file that is compatible with both Poser and D|S. Instead, in instances, where shaders are relied upon heavily, a user may need to relearn quite a bit to create almost an entirely new product, just to meet compatibility.

So, if we are to do the work and aquire the knowledge to appease the masses so they can reap the benefits, then where are our benefits? 

While it's great to see some vendor response to this I believe there might be some misunderstanding as to what I have implied as to the definition of "tested". As previously mention specific D|S material presets are not expected, most Studio users simply want to know if the product will load properly and be usable. Five to ten minutes of testing tops. Just a simple loading and quick render would do the trick.

Yes, D|S is material/shader challenged. The burden of this falls on the artist and I personally don't expect every vendor to slave over more material tinkering in a different app. Only a quick test as I mentioned above to see if it will be usable then a short mention of it on the product description. Something like -

*Works in DAZ|Studio but will require some surface editing.

*or

*Will not work in DAZ|Studio due to _________________.

*I really don't think that's asking for that much more extra work for what could turn into some extra sales. For what it's worth I rarely use the D|S presets that come with DAZ sold products, most are little more than starting points but there are a few exceptions.

For the record I don't expect anyone to... ahem... artificially cripple their products nor do I think they would be crippled as it is. They might actually look pretty darn good in the right hands. Artists are more powerful than applications when they try to be.

It seems I did this very thing awhile back and in hindsight I think I went about it the wrong way, as you are doing.

I think what gets most people upset is that the vendors are using a character that is primarily targeted to the DAZ user. About the only thing I get from the DAZ market are the props. I have only purchased maybe 3 characters. I must also say that I have both DS and Poser 7, and I use them interchangeably

Most DAZ users, I think, don't realize that with some ingenuity there is always a work around with some products. I have a particular fondness for Niké props and all are made for Poser 6+, but I have managed a couple of times to get around these roadblocks. Of course their are those products that will not work in DS and I avoided those until I got Poser.

So it really doesn't do any good to get angry about it. The best advise is to just avoid those vendors products, or try and get it to work for you.

But, all this being said, I am no artist so what do I know?

Quote - I think what gets most people upset is that the vendors are using a character that is primarily targeted to the DAZ user.

That's not neccesarily true. Those who started with 3D content (in Poser fashion) at a much later time than some of us might be under that impression though and I can understand that. DAZ Studio itself, however, is still in it's infancy. Hence DAZ pushing it more aggressively on their site. The push itself is not necessarily in an effort to push Poser off a cliff. It is more of a marketing ploy (and a good one to be honest). Offer it free as an entry level program, get people hooked and reel in content customers. The same applies to when they give away free figures such as V3, Aiko 3, V4 etc.. etc... I mean if you download the base figure for free, you are probably gonna need some morhs and clothing etc etc eventually, right? But those things aren't free... hooked. LOL.

The freebies also have another purpose.. they spawn new content from independent merchants such as myself. This, in turn, nurtures the symbiotic relationship between DAZ and content vendors, even if they aren't DAZ vendors.

At one time, DAZ content was exclusively directed at Poser and for a very very long time (much longer than it has been directed at D|S...obviously due to D|S being fairly new to the scene). And even up until recently (and maybe still) the majority of DAZ products were produced following the same conventions as Poser, not D|S. For example, 3rd generation Millenium figures follow the Poser file convention and the same "runtime" hierarchy. Just take a look at them and you'll see.

The majority of content creators, such as myself, still build primarily for Poser (maybe within Poser is probably a better way to put it) . Poser makes content creation much more streamlined although it is still a lot of work.

The majority of content is still primarily Poser content and will be for a long time to come. However, many of us do try to accomodate the best we can and with what time we have. Recently I have updated some of my older products to be compatible with Poser versions 5 thru 7 (they were originally created for P4) and have also tested them in D|S. My recent update to one of my popular products, VISIONS Props Pak (released in 2004 for P4), included many such changes.

Quote - While it's great to see some vendor response to this I believe there might be some misunderstanding as to what I have implied as to the definition of "tested". As previously mention specific D|S material presets are not expected, most Studio users simply want to know if the product will load properly and be usable. Five to ten minutes of testing tops. Just a simple loading and quick render would do the trick.

Yes, D|S is material/shader challenged. The burden of this falls on the artist and I personally don't expect every vendor to slave over more material tinkering in a different app. Only a quick test as I mentioned above to see if it will be usable then a short mention of it on the product description. Something like -

*Works in DAZ|Studio but will require some surface editing.

*or

*Will not work in DAZ|Studio due to _________________.

*I really don't think that's asking for that much more extra work for what could turn into some extra sales. For what it's worth I rarely use the D|S presets that come with DAZ sold products, most are little more than starting points but there are a few exceptions.

For the record I don't expect anyone to... ahem... artificially cripple their products nor do I think they would be crippled as it is. They might actually look pretty darn good in the right hands. Artists are more powerful than applications when they try to be.

I agree, but what is most misunderstood is that D|S is the entry level program and not the other way around. It may well be on it's way to better functionality but it's not there as of yet. For the most part, as I had said in my prior post, I see it primarily as a marketing tool at the moment. A damn good one though. Not to say that it isn't a good program nor that it will not be developed into a premiere program. ;o)

It isn't difficult to make most items compatible though. Most items not relying on extensive use of material and rendering tricks or other app specific features (shaders, procedurals, displacements, deformers, dynamic hair.. etc etc) should work in D|S without much issue. For stand alone models and other mesh items the best idea is to be sure that one has the P4 material tree as well as any Shaders for P5 and up in their files. DAZ Studio uses the P4 material tree just fine and ignores the shaders. I only wish I could include a line that turns off that darn specular light and set it to black. D|S turns it on by default...ughh. But DAZ script is in an entirely different format than Poser's, it is more like Javascript from the looks of it, and thus trying to incorporate that info in a single file to be compatible with both apps seems futile ;o)

Quote - > Quote - I comes down to one thing.

Those particular venders have themselfs
up on a pedestal and think that DAZ users are peons.
And do not want our money. They consider us
second class citizens and believe that our money
would disgrace them.

Hi im a Vendor and i think your are talking BullSh!t !

Why does my stuff have not tested in DS ? because i dont understand DS "yet"
And when i put in Works in DS i HAVE to be able to provide support when something does not work.
When i cant provide good support for DS on my products i should not put in "works In DS"

I check every thing i make in DS.
And in the future i might be able to put in "works in DS" when im 100% sure it works 100%

what you write is a brainless scribble and is a attack on Me and All other Vendors.
And i dont know if you ever did but please dont BUY from me
People with a attitude like yours i dont care for

Greetings
Chris

Wrong as it may have been, such rants like this tends to turn me off of a vender, i mean if they cannot respond and object with some decorum, what's it gonna be like if there is a problem and I need to talk to them about a product issue.

Cheers..
Tommi

erects guillotine

another french revolution anyone?

*I think what gets most people upset is that the vendors are using a character that is primarily targeted to the DAZ user.

*This is notably wrong!

Here's a little history:

Poser 1.0 was released in 1995
Poser 4.0 was released in 1999
Victoria 1 was released in 1999 - as far as I know she was a derivate of the P4-woman (Posette)
Victoria 2 was released in 2001
Victoria 3 was released in 2002
DAZ  Studio was released in it's version 1.0 in 2005 as far as I remember.
Victoria 4 was released in late 2006

(...and this does just contain the history of the most popular model by DAZ).

I agree, but what is most misunderstood is that D|S is the entry level program and not the other way around. It may well be on it's way to better functionality but it's not there as of yet. For the most part, as I had said in my prior post, I see it primarily as a marketing tool at the moment. A damn good one though.

And this is notably right! Meanwhile the interest in Poser often starts with the interest in the figures. And DS is a perfect tool if you want to try out 3d with human figures without spending a huge amount of money. But if you like the artistic work with these figures and want to achieve better and more realistic results you definitly have to spend the one or other Dollar - maybe on Plug-Ins for DS or for Poser.

And just a word to those that say that the User Interface of DS/Poser is so hard to learn: Yes, definitly, regardless what you try as a new tool I don't like the interface of DS at all and can use Poser with my eyes closed - because I use it more and for a far longer period. And in Bryce I am not even able to find the interface...

Quote - *I think what gets most people upset is that the vendors are using a character that is primarily targeted to the DAZ user.

*This is notably wrong!

Here's a little history:

Poser 1.0 was released in 1995
Poser 4.0 was released in 1999
Victoria 1 was released in 1999 - as far as I know she was a derivate of the P4-woman (Posette)
Victoria 2 was released in 2001
Victoria 3 was released in 2002
DAZ  Studio was released in it's version 1.0 in 2005 as far as I remember.
Victoria 4 was released in late 2006

(...and this does just contain the history of the most popular model by DAZ).

I was apparently wrong. Of course I didn't come to 3d until March 2007. As I said in my post I am not an artist. one look at my gallery would prove that.

Quote - And just a word to those that say that the User Interface of DS/Poser is so hard to learn: Yes, definitely, regardless what you try as a new tool I don't like the interface of DS at all and can use Poser with my eyes closed - because I use it more and for a far longer period. And in Bryce I am not even able to find the interface...

I actually find the interface in both relatively easy to use. I won't even go into Bryce.

I'll go away now and leave this discussion to you artists and venders, and crawl back under me rock.

Quote - I'll go away now and leave this discussion to you artists and venders, and crawl back under me rock.

LOL don't do that... hehe

Just a friendly discussion going on ... some people's barks are worse than their bites :o)

My opinion as well - that's a reason for adding some facts... they're usually able to cool boiling emotions down.

Quote - As a matter of fact it's just that simple for vendors as well. D|S doesn't take up too much disk space and reads the same runtime structure, it would only a few minutes to load the product and do a simple test render.

Unless, of course, every time you use D|S, you have to re-install it in order to use the software renderer. I've had this problem since version 2.something or other. So no, it's not a matter of a couple extra minutes to render in D|S for me. Also, there's my blood pressure to consider. LOL. D|S + me = battle.

*"D|S + me = battle"

lol, the cost of "free".

That actually is more aggrivating when free turns into $200+ as is my case invested in plugins. This has been a great conversation, wonder where we'll stand on this a few years down the road?

Just a proposition to all vendors who don't have the time to learn D|S or have problems to use it:

Ask a D|S user to run a couple of tests of your product!

We may be of some aid to you, often a "Poser only" product needs just some slight changes to work well in D|S, you include the settings in the read-me (yes, I know, most people don't read them) and everybody will be happy.

Furthermore, those of us who have largely invested in plug-ins for D|S may work out ways to have them look right ("non-crippled") and you may include these tips in your pachage.

Maybe you will not see imediatly a change, but I think after a while the word will spread and a vendor who includes some basic aid for D|S will get a reputation and at least some additional sales.

Why not create a Poser ->D|S working group? ^_^

I have found Daz Studio requires some slight alterations to the mesh object , and of course uv mapping and painting of texture maps.    Since I dont model for Poser 4 I rarely uv map anything , I use a lot of material groups , and since I cant paint , I dont do painted texture maps .

A number of people have used my stuff in Daz Studio but sometimes the mesh shows defects that arent in Poser. Daz Studio compatibility is at least a few more hours time and sometimes requires two different models to get the same appearance . Thats my experiance anyway.    

Even Daz has been releasing two different models , one for Daz studio and one for Poser. The situation is getting worse now that Daz is doing subd models for Studio only. 

Usually just the same model/.obj but specific D|S material settings

Meshes work just fine in Studio when they are made right.  Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm just pointing out that Studio doesn't seem to have as much of the error trapping and correcting that Poser includes.  Personally I prefer it that way as it also mean Studio has less bloat then Poser.