Quote -
I guess you missed my little sarcasm about the question. I think the improvement is with lighting, not lightning. :)

Oh dang! I thought you were alluding to Poser's jumpy 'light ball'.

Quote - You can render however you like. The point is if you want to depart from reality, then it will be your choice, and it will happen because you did it on purpose. This is very different from the renderer of Poser 7, which REFUSES to produce realism under any circumstances but heroic efforts on your part.

I prefer to start with real, then perhaps add a small light here and there for artistic reason. Particularly, I want photo-realism, i.e. I want to start with a photographic representation.

This is the single most important post ive read here in a long time , PLEASE have it tattooed on the forhead of all poser and even Daz dev's so when they look in the mirror in the morning they read it and remember :)

cheers

[quotewith indirect illumination?
Change it's ambient colour to 1 (or more). And of course, make sure there is something in the ambient channel.

Oh so to use the env sphere to illuminate the scene, i just plug the image in the ambient channel, change the ambient value and voilà?
But what about if we use a HDRI instead of jpg? Or is it better to use a jpg?

vincebagna

you can also use an HDRI image. it will look even more realistic.

is it true that GI in poser 8 always does 2 bounces of IL? we can not set it to 1? 

So what are the recommended settings for GI?   I mean, what should we set the IDL quality to?  And will increased irridance values also benefit from GI?  I've kept mine at 50 and still liked my test renders.

IR helps you to make the render faster without losing so much quality.

load a simple ball and do test renders. test renders will be very fast. and then you can see what works best for you.

Quote -  One more question:  If I install Poser 8 in a separate folder of its own, I assume it's all right to keep Poser 7 on the hard drive until such time as I feel I can handle Poser 8. Is this OK?

Right now I have Poser 5+6+7+pro all in their own folders & happily working, I really should dump the older ones as I never even open them anymore.

The shader I provide with my Environment Sphere has always made it self-lit. The Ambient channel is only one of several ways to accomplish that. I plug the image into Alternate_Diffuse (after some nodes process it). Same thing.

I would like to see more P8 people in the gallery,please .

Quote - The shader I provide with my Environment Sphere has always made it self-lit. The Ambient channel is only one of several ways to accomplish that. I plug the image into Alternate_Diffuse (after some nodes process it). Same thing.

Oh, so i just have to let it like that and it will be taken into account when using GI?
And does using HDRI instead of jpg with the env sphere will provide better accuracy?

Yes and Yes.

normal mapping works now with alternative diffuse and specular? and reflection?

Quote - normal mapping works now with alternative diffuse and specular? and reflection?

I don't think so. I just tested it with Blinn - no reaction. Only on the built-in specular.

Normal maps were not even a feature of Poser 7 at all. This feature has been copied from Poser Pro, with the bug, apparently.

Anyway, what's the big deal. I have challenged this forum to show me anything at all done with a normal map that worked better than an equivalent bump map. Nobody has ever done it. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just saying this is a feature I see no use for.

 I have been experimenting with Poser 8 and the Env Sphere. I've been trying to follow along and also have referred to bagginsbill's instructions posted on his free-stuff site. I'm not getting the best results.

Could someone please mention again the Env Sphere settings and where to plug the images in?

Could someone go over again the light settings (if one wants to use a light)?

Is it too much to put an image into the light, and with the Env Sphere, to put the same image into Diffuse, Highlight, and Ambient? Maybe that's my mistake. Should the image be used only once? If so, where's the best place to use it, if one is going to do lighting with the Env Sphere only?

Quote - > Quote - normal mapping works now with alternative diffuse and specular? and reflection?

I don't think so. I just tested it with Blinn - no reaction. Only on the built-in specular.

Normal maps were not even a feature of Poser 7 at all. This feature has been copied from Poser Pro, with the bug, apparently.

Anyway, what's the big deal. I have challenged this forum to show me anything at all done with a normal map that worked better than an equivalent bump map. Nobody has ever done it. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just saying this is a feature I see no use for.

a lot of people use normal maps. so i guess they are used for something.
second you are right that they are not better then bump maps.

but fact is that they are promoting poser 8 that it supports normal mapping. in the material room they have reflection and alternative diffuse and specular. if it doesnt work with this then this is mean IMO.

 Well, I can happily report that a character saved as a cr2 file in Poser 8 will open in Carrara 7 Pro. Similarly, a scene, a pz3 file, saved in Poser 8, will open in Carrara 7 Pro.

Quote -  I have been experimenting with Poser 8 and the Env Sphere. I've been trying to follow along and also have referred to bagginsbill's instructions posted on his free-stuff site. I'm not getting the best results.

Could someone please mention again the Env Sphere settings and where to plug the images in?

Could someone go over again the light settings (if one wants to use a light)?

Is it too much to put an image into the light, and with the Env Sphere, to put the same image into Diffuse, Highlight, and Ambient? Maybe that's my mistake. Should the image be used only once? If so, where's the best place to use it, if one is going to do lighting with the Env Sphere only?

Use the EnvPanoramic Shader I supplied. It has all the nodes already for every possible case.

Within that shader, select an equirectangular image for the Panoramic Image node.

Set the Gamma In = 2.2 for LDR images, and 1.0 for HDR images.

The next part is still unclear to me what is best. Here's what I've been doing. Set the Gamma Out to 1.5 and use HSV Exponential Tone Mapping in render options. Set the Exposure to somewhere between 2 and 2.2.

DO NOT USE AN IBL. The IBL will provide additional environmental lighting that is not consistent with that implied by the EnvSphere. Poser doesn't need IBL if you're using the EnvSphere.

Just use one infinite light for sunlight in an outdoor scene, 60 to 140% - the correct amount depends on the weather. For an indoor scene, it gets more complicated, but generally I'd use one or two spot lights, and not high intensity either - typically under 70%.

 Ah, thank you very much, bagginsbill. I'm going to try this again as soon as I've a chance.

Quote - > Quote - Wouldn`t fixing the geometry issue cause issue to all the clothing based on the assymetrical rig?

Possibly, but since the bug will continue to fuck up new content from now to the end of Poser's life cycle (however long that may be) I think it would be good to have the bug fixed.  Any content creators that produce original figures or conforming clothing ought to be 100% behind fixing this bug (at least the ones that understand it).

Not to be negative but your probably not going to get it fixed, as much as anyone interested in seeing things done right can expect.  I mean they could have fixed a number of things on Victoria 4 like her underarm crease issue and other little niggles but they didn't, still haven't and when we were able to get a response from DAZ about it it was "well all the clothing that's been released for her .... blah blah, f'ing blah....."  so it goes.  Not sure what these guys do when they test these meshes out but they sure don't ask folks like you and me to test, they would hate me in a day!!  :lol:

Quote - I mean they could have fixed a number of things on Victoria 4 like her underarm crease issue and other little niggles but they didn't, still haven't and when we were able to get a response from DAZ about it it was "well all the clothing that's been released for her .... blah blah, f'ing blah....."  so it goes.

Funny thing about that is that as far as I can tell, Simple Details' underarm fix doesn't cause a problem for clothing fits. Someone correct me if they've experienced otherwise.

Could one of you guys advise whether or not the render engine for P8 is still 64 bit? I think it is but just want to make sure.... :c)

Cheers

vxg139

P8 is not 64-bit, not GUI, not render engine. Only Pro is 64-bit rendering.

 what's the cloth room like in poser 8 0- anymore realistic?
Love esther

BB,

Right now I am using Poser Pro simply because its 64 bit rendering engine allows access to over 4 GB RAM ( I typically need over 5 GB RAM to render my images)......Should I therefore hold back until Poser PRro II (?) is released (given that 64 bit render engine is a must for me)?

Thanks again for your advice...

Cheers

vxg

Quote - BB,

Right now I am using Poser Pro simply because its 64 bit rendering engine allows access to over 4 GB RAM ( I typically need over 5 GB RAM to render my images)......Should I therefore hold back until Poser PRro II (?) is released (given that 64 bit render engine is a must for me)?
vxg

  I'll defer to BB of course, but I think you'll find what you need in this thread:    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2778341 
      The offer is that you can get P8 now, then when Poser Pro 2010 is released you only pay the difference in price between Pro 2010 and P8.  :D

      Since you are like me in that you need RAM capacity, you will probably want to install P8 while leaving Poser Pro in place.  In your SM folder, you'll have both a Poser Pro folder and a Poser 8 folder. You will have two programs, and two serial numbers.
      In P8, add (by reference, not copy)  your Poser Pro libraries.

  Then, for a complex scene, try to render in Poser 8 first;  if it succeeds, you get the benefit of superior IDL lighting (and probably speed).  If the render fails due to 32bit RAM allocation limitation, then render in Poser Pro (using separate process, so as to engage the 64bit render engine).

Keep in mind that P8 makes much better use of cores than even Poser Pro does; setting up lights will be a lot quicker once you get the hang of IDL etc etc. So it's a tradeoff. Of course, 64 bit would be much better.

But I've learned this from reading, not doing... I'm weighing holding off on the purchase until I (possibly) get a new machine in a couple weeks.

good point... I didn't even consider the possibility of having both poser pro and P8 on my pc!!

Cheers

vxg

Quote - (Re: rigging symmetry bugs) Not to be negative but your probably not going to get it fixed, as much as anyone interested in seeing things done right can expect.  I mean they could have fixed a number of things on Victoria 4 like her underarm crease issue and other little niggles but they didn't, still haven't and when we were able to get a response from DAZ about it it was "well all the clothing that's been released for her .... blah blah, f'ing blah....."  so it goes.  Not sure what these guys do when they test these meshes out but they sure don't ask folks like you and me to test, they would hate me in a day!!  :lol:

The thing is, this is not a bug that is the fault of any content.  It's a bug with Poser itself.  It's actually OK in DAZ|Studio, this bug does not appear.  I found this bug present in the new Poser 8 figures (Alyson) in no less than eleven places.  As Poser continues to evolve, rigging techniques will too, and more complex rigs (like Alyson/Ryan's) will have more places where this bug can manifest.  I gave details of this info to Steve Cooper and he assured me that he'll get this resolved.

I actually really like the way the library works.  The whole fliter-ability aspect of it is nice and runs very quick and smooth.

Esther I am poking around in the cloth room a bit, I'll give you some info shortly.  The manual has this to say about the cloth room in the "What's New" section:
"Improved multi-processor support improves posing and rendering. Cloth simulations are now completed faster, and saves you time."

It otherwise appears to be the same.

Looking at how Cloth Room simulations behave, I think the term "Improved multi-processor support" is technically true, but not what you'd think it really means.  I have a quad core machine.  This cloth simulation fully occupies one core, every other second it uses about 1/3 of another core (overall about 1/6th of a second core).  It seems to be "just barely" multiprocessing.

Poser 7 simulation was complete in 7 minutes 25 seconds.

you know, i've been told that the way you preview it affects calculation time.  that is, if you switch the preview during calculation to something simpler like cartoon or cartoon with lines, it's quicker. if that's true, then the difference in the previews (they look different in ways not explained by a change in camera position) could be causing a difference in performance.

i tend to use cartoon with lines when i run cloth sims, and i think that improved the time per frame, but i'd have to check to be certain.

The only difference in preview is a) simpler light setup in the Poser 8 scene (Poser default) and b) ground plane is hidden in the Poser 7 scene.  Otherwise they're exactly the same, textured preview mode.

right, same mode.  that doesn't mean it's the same.  i know the preview changed from P6 to P7 to add more features.  i don't know if it changed from P7 to P8.  but i'd bet the simpler preview modes haven't changed.

it might not make a difference, but then again, it could.

Just bought it...

I'll let ya'll know the diffs tomorrow.

Quote - right, same mode.  that doesn't mean it's the same.  i know the preview changed from P6 to P7 to add more features.  i don't know if it changed from P7 to P8.  but i'd bet the simpler preview modes haven't changed.

I am dubious as to how this could make such a large difference.  To me it's more likely some random element of the simulation just required more math to be done, and re-running it a bunch of times would likely come up with different times to complete for each ^^  Hard to say.

Quote - Looking at how Cloth Room simulations behave, I think the term "Improved multi-processor support" is technically true, but not what you'd think it really means.  I have a quad core machine.  This cloth simulation fully occupies one core, every other second it uses about 1/3 of another core (overall about 1/6th of a second core).  It seems to be "just barely" multiprocessing.

That's typical of an app which doesn't do multicore. Every cycle it goes "Hey, a nice free CPU! What if I used this one?", and switches over, negating all CPU buffers, prefetch routines and other nifty optimization systems your computer might have...
That's what P6 does on a multicore computer, unless you limit it to a single core.

So that means the cloth room is still the old, single core routine.

Quote - you know, i've been told that the way you preview it affects calculation time.

I think I have experienced that too. Now we might be heading straight towards Poser superstition and legends, but  I think I noticed that hiding long transmapped hair while calculating a cloth sim speeded it up significantly.
On the other hand I didn't benchmark this, and I don't know the effects of sacrificing poultry before a simulation either...

No, I'm familiar with that behavior for a single threaded app that is switched from core to core, and this is different.  Practically though, it runs much the same as a single threaded app.

Quote - To me it's more likely some random element of the simulation just required more math to be done

There most likely is a part of randomness involved, but the simulation itself seems to be pretty deterministic, as running it several times with the same settings will apparently yield the same result (as I have discovered to my disappointment while hoping to get nicer creases). So if there is a part of randomness, it's fairly small and shouldn't IMHO make any big difference in calculation time.

The method to know for sure if display has some influence would be to run a simulation with everything made invisible (including the ground plane, which for some reason does eat resources)...   If anyone is bored...  :-D

 I've found that a number of Python Script plugins that worked in Poser 7 do not work in Poser 8. Does anyone know if there are going to be updates? For example, the wonderful scripts by Shaderworks for Render Studio, Advanced Render Settings, Bubbles Generator, and Face Randomizer, etc. -- all of these don't work.  Also, Shader Spider looked like it was going to work, and then Poser 8 locked up and I had to Force Quit. Aww, for the first time in Poser 8 (Mac version). Also, the Mac Unimesh Realism Kit doesn't work. Puppet Master doesn't work either.

Some of these may no longer be necessary, due to the improvements in lighting and rendering. Also, Poser 8 has a better implementation of Universal Poses (IMHO) than did Poser 7, so Puppet Master may no longer be necessary.

Still, I'm wondering about updates.

For those who want 64-bit rendering or multiple core rendering, when I installed the Shaderworks Advanced Render Settings scripts, the render mode began taking advantage of both my cores. (I have an Intel iMac with Core Duo Extreme Processors.) This might further help people who have four or even eight cores. I don't think it went to 64-bit rendering, though. 

If this isn't the place to raise these questions, please point me to the correct thread.

This could be a mac issue, inquire :(

I have the following scripts that work perfectly in Poser 8 (PC ):

Render Studio
Face-Off Realism Kit
PuppetMaster (biped and quad)
Poser Physics for Poser 7
OBJ2Cr2 (seems to work, not fully tested but it initializes)
Philc's Poser ToolBox (have not tried every single tool)
Lots of simple scripts seem to work, even Bushi's old Magnet Cloner

My own scripted products appear to work (conversion scripts, MAT Writer Premium, Pose Writer Premium).

See if you can get ahold of customer support at SM

 Shaderworks Render Studio? If you try to open the AO Editor from the Python Scripts menu, does it open? Nothing happens when I try it.

As far as I am aware, both Poser 8 and Poser 7 share the same version of Python.

Here's a screenie of the window in Poser 8...

 No, actually I did apply the fix. I think Poser 8 has a different version of Python. Anyway, I'm glad it works for you. I wrote Semidieu about it, but haven't heard from him.

Quote - Poser 8 simulation was complete in eight minutes zero seconds (rather significantly slower but keep in mind, there is some randomness involved in any dynamics simulation).

this makes me angry. i woulod be happy if it would be 2 minutes faster.

well if it wont crash and if it is able to simulate more complex clothes then its good.

 Dunno if it comes into effect with imported scenes, but I noticed that some of the base values have changed in the cloth room. That might account for the different times perhaps?

Quote - > Quote - interesting observation. Maybe they will announce the release tomorrow at Siggraph and put it on sale on 8/5 or 8/10.  Now wouldn't that be cool :)

Maybe it will be at the First Friday Bazaar for $1.99...

NAHHHH! :tt2:

Hmmm - Well - There is this really great sale manager feature we have at CP, where we can offer a limited number of things for a certain price....I'm gonna say that there is a HIGH chance that at some point tomorrow, a few quick windows and mac ESD customers will stumble into FFB and find Poser 8 on sale for $1.99.  It will be at a random time tomorrow...and it will be a very limited quantity.  We will repeat this during Septembers FFB as well.)

(Those following along on Sundays Steals may have noticed quite a few additional products go for free to 50-100 people in the last few weeks...and those always kick off at midnight on Sunday, so are probably gone for those asleep at that time - a quick note to people who may be awake in other time zones at that hour, who may have felt they weren't up for promos in the past - make sure to keep your eyes open!)