Quote - If you want your model to work a certain way and look a certain way, you have to build it a certain way.

yes and "a certain way" is of course an objective, absolute, and immutable thing that applies to all situations everywhere forever. because of course your particular "certain way" is the mathematical postulate for perfection, gotcha.

Seriously go model a figure from scratch, and take your time, thanks.

e: that's his modded M3.  Which he feels is the absolute perfect model that nothing can possibly compare with.

Netherworks, I think we pretty much basically agree as e.g. the material room. Having both options is good, as long as one doesn't impair the other. I tend to learn both ways - a programming language I'll read the manual (please paper), from cover to cover first, a graphics app I'm more likely to just explore and read about features as needed. OTOH, I usually ended up setting the alarm rather than learning to program a VCR.

Recently, I tried the figure mixer in DS3 for the 1st time. I dutifully read the manual line by line. It took forever to do whatever unnatural acts it took to mix Vickie, Aiko and Laura on my old rig. I ended up with a cute figure I couldn't export or change the mixing proportions on. Turns out that I missed something in the 'if you want do this, skip to...', IMO partially because a step was vaguely worded. Now if I had had a nice wizard (sorry Peng) that stepped me through the sequence and warned me to do this before doing that, and yes, asked me if I was sure because otherwise I was stepping off the cliff of no return, I would probably haved saved a lot of time and gotten the result I wanted. But sure, have both stick shift and automatic.

BTW, I should have said 'a bit uncharitible' instead of 'breathtakingly arrogant,' sorry :-)

my short and simple answer is no.

the (very) long  and complicated version is, well, complicated.  my first thought is that people keep making assumptions about Poser usage in general based on content community usage.  while DS users probably do map almost perfectly to the content community, Poser users don't.  i've seen a fair amount of CG work with Poser using the default content and figures together with custom content.  at my old job, several classes of kids not much older than high school and non-technical to boot learned to use Poser and some other CG software.  just one of those classes had more people in it than this thread, and they were taught for years.  the students who came across content community sites (including this one and DAZ's) were repelled by the content and the community.  the focus on T&A made them uncomfortable.  these were artists who weren't a bit put off by nudity. they had a problem with all of the hot pants, bikinis, and characters that dressed like "whores."  the whole pinup focus loses us a lot of artists who either want something more, find the environment uncomfortable, or both.
 

in total, i've personally seen hundreds of Poser users that weren't part of the content community and didn't share our goals or interests.  so i don't think it's so simple to say that Poser's creators should push our kind of content with their software.

Genesis is interesting and innovative.  it's true that it has a lot of precursors, but it takes some significant new steps.  that said, i'm just not seeing the huge improvement people are talking about.  i've still seen problems at the knees when partially bent. Joe Public showed some poses that showed the same back problems Vicky has had for years (that awful hump!).  i definitely see improvements, but the main way i can differentiate a Genesis/V5 image from a V4 one is either really extreme (inhuman) morphing or the shoulders (if they're lowered). V5 goes for about the same price i paid for V4 Complete, but includes less (most notably, the Evolution morphs are separate).  imho, V5/Gensis is cool and impressive.  but, personally, just for my own use, i'd prefer not to have to pay the same money for a few morphs that i did for hundreds of morphs with a whole lot of extra content thrown in.  i'd really prefer not to buy into a system that's so inconvenient for me.   to use V5, i either have to give up half of the capabilities i currently enjoy (making my own dynamic clothes, scripting my materials, writing little scripts without needing an SDK, sculpting with the morph tool, etc.) or spend a good chunk of time converting content.  for me, the whole point of buying content is ease of use.

maybe i'm wrong, but i don't think people are worried because they're intested in the latest Vicky.  i think they're interested in the latest Vicky's content.  imho, the anxiety comes from worrying about about either having to learn a lot of new stuff all at once or miss out on all the shiny new toys.  in this economy, i think people are even more anxious about spending their money well.  sure, Vicky has been a safe bet.  but for Poser users, she's just not any more.  for us, especially if we don't know DS, using V5 will involve about as much work as using an independent figure and converting content.  even worse, there is no common V5 for Poser.  there's only your copy of V5, which should theoretically be the same as everyone else's.  it's not like the exporting process doesn't have options.  the more steps a process has, the more likely it is for something to go wrong.

there's no longer a simple answer for Poser users who just want to load and render the latest content.  people are struggling with that.  

this is why the WM Antonia and WM V4 projects are relevant.  as lkendall says, it is a big shift for such a large amount of content to be released not only without a Poser version, but without any backwards compatibility.  there are a lot of people who either can't afford to upgrade, can't get DS4 to work, or just plain don't want to change their workflow for problems they didn't think existed when they bought V4 (and praised her bending to the skies). for years, i've seen merchants express a reluctance (based on sales, by their account) to use any of Poser's features they couldn't make work in both apps and in older versions.   now i'm hearing people talk as if the situation has changed overnight, and merchants can dictate to users what tools to use.  i think that might work for DAZ, who has a lot of leverage, or their top PA's, but i'm not sure i see how it will work for the average merchant.  with the Antonia and V4 projects, there will at least be an option for those who want to make use of recent innovations in a more customer-friendly way.  making content for P8- users would be the same as it's always been, but you can make a weight mapped version of conforming clothes (which, from tutorials, doesn't seem too intense) and add an SSS version of your materials.  not to mention, the project is led by Poser users, designed for Poser users, and has several talented merchants happy and excited to join in.  i personally can't wait to see what comes next!

I've used DS some years ago, but returned to Poser. I will stick with Poser as long as merchants and content creators support it. My next investment is to upgrade Poser :)

With Viki 5 only being supported by DS, I think(hope) that some really awesome figuers will surface made by Poser users. Already there are some fantastice creations out there.

I think Daz will loose a large majority of users if their products will only be supported in DS. Afterall there is a lot of sites that support Poser where DS is only seen as a sidekick.

Quote - making content for P8- users would be the same as it's always been, but you can make a weight mapped version of conforming clothes (which, from tutorials, doesn't seem too intense) and add an SSS version of your materials.

From my perspective, that's at least twice the work (development, testing and packaging) for the same selling price, so I dunno how many other vendors will be trying to provide that degree of compatibility.  I won't.

No, I have no intentions of buying into DS4, Genisis or V5

Very happy with PP2012

Quote - > Quote - making content for P8- users would be the same as it's always been, but you can make a weight mapped version of conforming clothes (which, from tutorials, doesn't seem too intense) and add an SSS version of your materials.

From my perspective, that's at least twice the work (development, testing and packaging) for the same selling price, so I dunno how many other vendors will be trying to provide that degree of compatibility.  I won't.

That would not be that much of a problem, at least not for me. The shaders on commercial items usually are simple and sometimes broken, so I have to redo them anyway. Changing a garment to weight maps seems to be very easy, at least according to my tries with the weight mapped Antonia version and some clothes from Marvelous Designer, which I conformed to her with much more success then I expected, considering that MD creates meshes with non-regular triangles. The process of rigging clothes for a weight mapped figure is so easy to do, and it's faster than doing it with Wardrobe Wizard or PhilC's OBJ2CR2. 

No.

Ummmm... let me think about that... Nope... 

well at least your avatar isn't a vickie!

'tis so... it's Vicky 99... I'm still working on her though...LOL

Quote - I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that maybe if "maw maw" and "paw paw" need to be walked through every single step of using a computer or its software, they shouldn't have one.

Tell me: Do you ever wonder why, in spite of having the tablet market all to itself for 10 years, Microsoft lost the whole damned market in less than a month after the iPad got released? Lost it hard enough that they were frightened into borking the upcoming Windows 8 interface just to prove the point? 

Hint: The iPad is easy enough for "maw maw" to use, and hell, it's easy enough for her 4-year-old grandchild to use. And Apple is laughing all the way to the bank as its competition desperately scrambles to shove Android and WebOS into various bids to become the big competitor, leaving Microsoft way out in the cold? 

Same thing here - It's called the Golden Rule of Code: the one who comes up with the best balance of features and simplicity is the one who gets the gold.

Quote - "I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that maybe if "maw maw" and "paw paw" need to be walked through every single step of using a computer or its software, they shouldn't have one."

Oh, if only that were true. I'm tired of fixing family computers and their ****ups....lol.

Laurie

lmk

Never.

No.

Quote - Same thing here - It's called the Golden Rule of Code: the one who comes up with the best balance of features and simplicity is the one who gets the gold.

Well, marketing is a huge factor also (but yeah DAZ does very well there too).

No to V5, Genesis and DS4.  Poser is easier to use and I never cared much for any of the Vickies.  Besides, all the Gen4 figures were free at one time and they work just fine for me.  Who needs Genesis when I'm sure all the figures will look feminine anyway.  I also don't care if Genesis works in Poser.

I've been using Poser since version 2 and don't intend on changing now.  If it weren't for Poser, there would be no DAZ.

Quote - Well, marketing is a huge factor also (but yeah DAZ does very well there too).

It is, but IMHO not as much as one may think. A marketed product that doesn't live up to the hype tends to flop real hard. (Example? Apple says nothing about upcoing products until they're released. Microsoft hypes the unholy crap out of theirs, with mixed results. Windows 7 managed to make it, while Vista, Kin, Zune, etc did not.)

I cleared up the "maw-maw" comment earlier.. I hope :)

The difference, to me, is that Poser/DS is not a phone, kindle or other type of dedicated device that does require simplication in order to appeal to the masses.  From what I've read and seen, the iPad is more of an entertainment/multimedia device with social (mail) type functions.  Is that pretty accurate?  I don't have any kind of "pad" type device so I honestly have no idea.  I've never been interested because I'm not an "on the go"/coffee house type dweller.  Honestly, I'd prefer to go with a laptop and that way I can configure it the way I truly want to.

As I said earlier, which you guys missed (perhaps?), is that there is a line that needs (or should be walked) between making things too automated/user friendly where you loose choices or wind up babying the user, especially in an application that has a strong technical side.  There should be room to dabble and tinker.  Or expand on the Simple/Complex type of switch we see in the material room.

It's also why there are basic (and P9 is not basic, Debut is) and pro versions. Debut would probably be well suited to someone absolutely new to this whole experience and it's probably a good stepping stone for those folks.  I mean if someone is going to only pop in premade scenes (don't care about advanced materials or tweaking things) and render out greeting cards for Christmas, it's probably a good choice for that.

(BIG DISCLAIMER - No offense to people who use Poser or DS to make Greeting Cards.  I've done it too. :P  Oh and for god's sake, I make no offense to premade content either...)

Kobaltkween, Interesting & thoughtful post. You said, "so i don't think it's so simple to say that Poser's creators should push our kind of content with their software." I presume that by content you mean the clothing? The figures themselves have no socio-political context that I can see. You could make them without FF cup breast morphs or genitals, which someone would inevitably make anyway. As to the clothing, SM is free to promote or ban anything they want in their store. Of course, you can't ban anyone else from selling whatever they want.

I'm not sure why people would be unable to distinguish between a figure and content. If they want to avoid what some would call 'sleaze,' I'm sure there are smaller merchants and sites they can visit. The great beauty of Poser is that you can create whatever kind of world you want, even one that doesn't reflect much of America today. SM could even set a tone by exclusively selling more conservative clothing. Kind of ironic though, them being in NY/CA, Rendo being in TN(?) and Daz being in Utah.

Netherworks, good point about Debut, but they should make it free to compete with DS if they're serious about getting new blood. Actually, I'd think about making the whole thing free aka Poser PLE. You have only one set of code to maintain, and users can experience all the capabilities including the dual interface etc. That way, they can already be familiar all the goodies instead of having a huge learning curve when they upgrade. This seems to work for Vue, Maya etc. SM would have to decide what restrictions to put on it, e.g. logo, render size restriction etc.

A Pre-Christmas Parable/Satire and then I must go. (Note, the unwashed will be played by a group of extras. I will not offend by quantifying them, let's just say more than one and less than a billion). Characters portrayed not intended to resemble any real person. Producers are agnostic & short of a true miracle (show me the money!) will not be tithing to either denomination.

The Book of Vickie -  Book 5 Chapter 1

1. The clouds part, cue Vue godrays and midi trumpets. Daz offers a mysterious miracle to Sadie Mazie, she declines, doesn't want to be tied down to a desert peddler.

2. Daz announces Genesis, gets cool sounding award from wise men. Daz introduces Vickie transformed by the miracle.

3. The Church reacts. "The Rapture is nigh, Daz vs. SM at Armageddon."

4. Deacon: "Daz has sinned!, We will not bow to the Whore of Draper!"

5. Congregation: "The evil strumpet will not submit to our software, Burn her!"

6. Outside: The unwashed are confused, No Vickie? Like the husband who gets served and sees his beloved running off with some swarthy guy named Rodrigo, there are tears, rending of garments and gnashing of teeth.

7. Daz Epistle to the Church: "Lo, we shall make ye whole with a sweet ointment. "

8. Church: "Curse you heathan and your beyotch. Antonia is our shield and buckler. And yea, another savior will be born in Bethlehem, or maybe Cleveland. Together, they will reign supreme. But it's not like a girl-on-girl thing." Sacramental wine tippler in the back row, "I'll fap to that!"

9. Daz delivers ointment. One or two in the back pews sneak a try, "Behold, it works, kinda, sorta and lo, she do be fine."

10. Church: "Heresy, the beyotch is a fugly wiotch!" One or two in the next row whisper, "Say brother, lemme have a look at that."

11. Daz breaks the second seal - more onitment. And it was good.

12. Church: The front rows are glory shouting and speaking in tongues. "We shall baptize the old Vickie, (the one who only dresses like a whore) in the secret sauce. It will be good."

13. Outside: The unwashed hear tales of a miracle ointment. Daz proclaims that Vickie still loves them, Rodrigo was a lie by some guy named Iago or Yugo. "P.S. Vickie now does stuff that ain't even legal in Alabama. Just take a peek behind the curtain."

14. Church: Rumors swirl in the back rows about more ointment. Someone shows plans for a golden calf. In front, there is talk of building a large boat of some kind.

15. Outside: A few hippies start chanting for Vickie, (and a good nickel bag). A few start to chant with them. The sky darkens. It begins to rain.

And then...?  don't leave us in suspense?

nope, won't be buying into the hype.

DS user since DS1.7, bought DS3A, very happy (except for lack of dynamics).

bought P7, P8( late 2009/early 2010) and due to a lucky windfall, PP2012.

tried DS4/Genesis, no longer on any of my rigs, and will not be installed ever again.

Most likely YES.

I am along time Poser user, since version 2. I tried DS3 but didn't really have any motivation to learn it properly as I had Poser.

I upgraded to DS4 and Poser 2012 since the cost of both upgrades was reasonable. Since then I have put some effort into learning DS4, and found I am getting more out of the DS4 upgrade than I did out of the Poser upgrade. Since upgrading both I have run up DS4 almost every day, Poser 2012 about eight times.

I've used poser since version 4, and I will keep using poser for a while yet. I did say I wasn't gonna gonna upgrade to the newest version a while back, but when that 40% off offer came a week-ish ago I did actually go for it.. and I quite like 2012 sofar :)

I have tried DS and I just didn't get along with it.. at all..

Considering that most of what I do involves fully clothed characters for illustration, The 'benifits' of V4/Genisis/DS are of absolutly no advantage for me.  Considering that I still use Imagine3D for modeling (at least 10 years since company went under),  I tend to use what I am comfortable with.

So No to V5/DS

Bill

Quote - Netherworks said: lmckenzie,

Like everything it's a judgement call.  I understand that.  But when I see definitive statements like "users want this" and "users want that" I think what I have a problem with is the wording.  And I'm not specifically calling anyone out.  I just think people often inject what is important to them and say this is what "users" want.

I can say that I would not like to see everything so dressed up as "user friendly" that it is annoying for those that do not want to be hand held every single step of every process.  There are a LOT of things that can be demystified by reading through the Poser manual.  We see time and again the same kinds of questions that come up that are already answered.  I mean, honestly, what is so god awful about looking in a manual?  There are even pictures in it! :D  I can see using "reminders" and automating repetitive tasks but it really annoys me when an application starts taking the stance that all users are "idiots" and need big primary colored buttons with simple words on them to produce anything.  Users should be offended, at least slightly, by that.  But for all I know everyone or a majority wants that...

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that maybe if "maw maw" and "paw paw" need to be walked through every single step of using a computer or its software, they shouldn't have one.  Or they should take on the burden of learning to use it.  There is so much information out there that there is simply no excuse.

I suppose I tend to think of people being smart enough to understand basic concepts and I don't immediately assume everyone is dumb as a rock from the get-go.

Unfortunately, I see idiots and stupidity running rampant on most forums and comment sections. It's amazing we've made it this far as the human race. I can understand why SM and DAZ feel the need to dumb it down. But I have seen countless requests for simple, step by step explanations from users (paying customers) because they are in a hurry to make art now. There are also so-called pros who do the same thing. We just don't have enough time anymore since we are all so connected these days.

Lately, I've come to think of people being dumb enough not to understand basic concepts. I've thought a few times over the years of becoming a merchant, but decided against it everytime because I just don't have the patience to suffer idiots.

I also see lots of bad information in these threads. And sometimes from folks who should know better. There are definitely differences between Poser and D|S. But when it comes to the render engine, DAZ has the upper hand with 3Delight - it can do more in the right hands. It would be better if it was the brand new v10 which has speed tweaks but v9.5 in D|S 4  isn't bad. Where Poser has the upper hand is that people like BB have figured out how to make the Poser render engine work better than in the past (and Stefan has been working hard on improving it). That information has made it back into Poser so default settings aren't so bad and anyone can get OK results and much better if you follow BB's and others' advice. With DAZ, there seems to be fewer tech heads hanging out in the forums and the information is harder to squeeze out, but they have some really nice lighting setups and shaders built in since they bought and included omnifreaker's early stuff and if you watch some YouTube videos and download the free (through early December) new getting started PDF, you'll see nice results right away. The default Studio render settings for 3Delight are not optimized, so you have to go with forum advice which will save you render time. But they have included better textures and shaders out of the box for V5 so many more of the first renders, if the lighting is correct, look good.

DAZ has different options for the UI in D|S 4 so you can hide many things if you know where they are. You can also customize the UI to a degree.

I think Poser and D|S have both made very good advances, but it will be harder to compete with Blender as it gets better and better and that goes for all software. The advantage Poser and D|S will have there is still the pre-made, very affordable content, and ease of use, and a strong community to back both, even though there are many idiots running wild.

EDIT: Netherworks, just saw your most recent post and yes, those beginners folks needing simplicity should be driven to the Debut versions, etc. Unfortunately, they probably don't know they exist as they don't get all the coverage in magazines and websites. But the lesser versions would be where I would direct someone like that as I've directed friends over the years to the lesser versions of Photoshop, etc.

Quote - Kobaltkween, Interesting & thoughtful post. You said, "so i don't think it's so simple to say that Poser's creators should push our kind of content with their software." I presume that by content you mean the clothing? The figures themselves have no socio-political context that I can see.

I really liked Kobaltkween's post as well. My take on it is that she thinks Poser has a much broader base than us pinup-obsessed hobbyists. We are welcome, but we aren't the main demographic. People complain that Judy, Alyson, etc., are ugly...but maybe that's what other users want. An ordinary-looking person, not a supermodel or amazon babe. If you look back on some of the older posts here, there were people complaining that Posette's boobs were too big. If you're making an industrial safety video, you don't want everyone's attention on the worker's big bazongas. The answer, of course, was magnets. As you say, you can blow up breasts, add genitals - and turn the face from frumpy to Cosmo girl. But a lot of people aren't able or willing to do that. What should the default be? Obviously, DAZ has found pinup to be profitable. They used to not even allow lingerie in their store. Vicky 1 and Mike 1 had wardrobes of contemporary business and casual wear. Now each new figure gets a bunch of sexy underwear, brass bikinis, etc. But perhaps this wouldn't work for SM. Maybe the figures and clothing they are distributing with Poser are the ones most of their customers want. Having the pinup stuff be an add-on you have to go look for on your own may be what works for them.

For what it's worth, 9mbi has lots of "normal" everyday clothing. Thing is, it's all for Vicky 4 with the odd Olivia or G2 piece thrown in.

Laurie

Easy to say about the original question:-

NEVER!!!!!!

All the best.

LROG

Nope, I'm not switching to DS.  I've got the first, second, third and fourth gen models, have sunk loads of money into all the bells and whistles for those dolls, plus the cost of Poser upgrades.  

Genesis and V5 are no better than all of the other dolls I've got, IMO. I'm just tired of all the hype over a new doll, which translates to spending even more money.  When will DAZ develop a quality model?  V1 was the latest and greatest and then came all of the other dolls, which were supposed to be the best and now we've got the latest version... so in a couple of years another new doll and it will never freaking end.

I prefer the third or fourth gen dolls, their content and I prefer Poser over DS.  I don't want to learn a new program or system either, so nope, I'm not switching. 

I'm intrigued by the reported bending and joint improvements, and the low-poly aspect. If a Poser-compatible Genesis is produced that lets you reap all the benefits and doesn't require DS4 to export to Poser format, sure I'll give Vicky 5 a whirl. Plus it must be possible to inject V4 characters and morphs into her (accurately) so she can wear her current wardrobe.

Oh yeah, and I'd like a pony.

Quote - Oh yeah, and I'd like a pony.

Sorry, the pony will be a Genesis morph of Vicky 5. You'll need DS to use it. ;-)

So round about now I'd say the concensus is "We have enough Dolls and don't need no stinkin' V5! We'd rather have a V8."

I'd like a V5, well I have a low poly V5 in poser.  But I would still rather have poser than DS even with their high poly V5.  I bet that is how a lot of people feel ie if V5 would work well in poser they would have bought all the available V5 stuff from DAZ website.

Love esther

Quote -  My take on it is that she thinks Poser has a much broader base than us pinup-obsessed hobbyists. We are welcome, but we aren't the main demographic. People complain that Judy, Alyson, etc., are ugly...but maybe that's what other users want. An ordinary-looking person, not a supermodel or amazon babe.

The problem is not the pinup vs. "ordinary looking person". That's just completely ignoring/misreading what everyone has said in this thread about the mesh, and IMHO the argument sounds petulant.

Let me spell this out as simply as I can:

The problem with Poser is that the default female and male meshes are severely limited to look like they are, and that's pretty much what you're stuck with.  You can't really do much of anything with the default poser meshes beyond their existing shapes and looks, period. Yes, there's the face room, the morph brush, magnets, yadda yadda... and they all require a metric buttload of work to accomplish something that doesn't look completely horrific. That's work that damned few pros in this realm will bother with doing, let alone the masses.

By contrast, you can take the Vicky 4 (yes, "four") mesh and make it an ordinary person or a pinup model - your pick. From Anorexic to Zaftig, tender girl to wrinkled hag, cup sizes from Twiggy to Dolly Parton, and a face that can be practically anything you want the damned thing to be... even male! And here's the kicker: It only takes a couple of dial spins to get those results. From what I've seen of the Genesis mesh, you can now throw body height and literal body size into the mix w/o borking the joints. Again, just a couple of dial spins to get it.

By contrast, Poser makes you go to a "room" or two, where you have to patiently use slow-to-react tools and tweaks, or have to spend all day dorking around with magnets, just to get what you want. 

This, right here, is why Poser relies on DAZ for its long-term survival, and why any upcoming non-compatibilities with ol' Vicky will threaten that survival.

Smith Micro and its team can solve the problem, but they're going to have to do something they never through possible: They're going to have to break out the checkbook and hire some modelers. No, not just contract someone to crap out a single-purpose set-in-concrete figure or two, but to make a serious base mesh. 

Will they do it? Probably not. Will the community step up? Maybe, but they're going to have to take the existing community models and make them a lot more flexible (in morphability, not joints) than they are now. For the male side, Apollo Max is almost a perfect drop-in, with maybe a bit more flexiblity in the face. For the female side, I'm sorry, but Antonia will need the same kind of morphablity that Apollo has, and a face that can be as shapeable as the V-series meshes.

...see? It has bupkis to do with bazongas, bewbs, mammaries, or the like, and everything to do with the basics. 

Ester,  I love you too, but your Poser Low Poly V5 still has more then tripple the poly's needed.

Look at ;

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/536626

Some Promo pictures can be enlarged.

Now, That is what I call "A figure".

"Ester,  I love you too, but your Poser Low Poly V5 still has more then tripple the poly's needed.
Look at ;"

Hi That Figure leverages the internal features of Autodesk 3D Studio Max
including Max's SubD ,polygon Displacement, MAX's rigging & weighting system, MAX's hair system and being set up with proper Shaders& textures for those Mental Ray renders on the product page.
Export it from MAX as FBX /Collada to
Lightwave or C4D  or blender and you will likely get something that Looks quite similar to a Genesis in poser pro exported from Daz studio.

Now in the very same way that turbosquid figure
is heavily dependent on the native features of MAX,
Genesis is dependent on the internal structure/features of DAZ Studio.
This is NOT some new way of creating figures this has been done For years in pro apps and it is the "Industry Standard" and the most logical Approach.
and whomever wants to create a truly poser native alternative to Genesis had better harness every figure specific feature of poser to do so.

Cheers

Sure Wolf, it is MAX and uses SubD and SSS.

Sure the figure was build with SubD in mind, but shows exellent Poly placement and distrubution. 
That is why one gets such a result with a base mesh of only 6300 Poly's.
Every Poly has its function, and is doing something in 3D space.

Now this mesh, and Poser9 - PP2012 Smoothing options, oh ! oh!

My main points being;

• Quality in modeling.
• Poly management.
• Texture work.

Greetings

"Now this mesh, and Poser9 - PP2012 Smoothing options, oh ! oh!"

But if that mesh uses Max's Catmul Clark SubDivision
(likely) then poser pro's so called  "smoothing "wont help its rendered appearance anymore so than it is helping those low res Genesis exports we have been seeing posted here and elsewhere.

Also it  is my understanding the poser smoothing is global and not applicable on a per object basis.
not a problem for those who only render **NPIEU's
 but for those needing hard edge props in the scene as well I have read that it "puffs" them
I dont have/need  poser pro so perhaps someone else can confirm this.

*(*NPIEU-naked people in empty universe)

Cheers

@ Wolf

Posers smoothing can be set as you like

Global, Per figure, even down to group level.

Or use the grouping tool to make a special "Smoothed group". (with controllable crease angle)

So if you need hard edges on some, and soft edges on other obj's, no problems at all.

The crease angle (smooth angle) can be different for each and every group.
Set it at 80 for the head of one figure
None for the neck
180 on the chest

None on the chair and table.

Full, and all at 180° for the next figure?

Think , and it is possible.

It is one of the most customisable tools in Poser.

 A single object : A hard edged machine, with smooth round tubes?
No problem.

Your understanding is wrong.

here are two copies of the buckyball in the same render, one with smoothing on, one with it off.

Bill

I would consider switching to DS if DAZ could talk bagginsbill into creating VSS and a PR4 skin shader for Daz Studio.  I do not know how to gamma correct materials in DS.  Non-GC images rendered in DS without postwork look just as bad as their counterparts in Poser.

"Your understanding is wrong.
here are two copies of the buckyball in the same render, one with smoothing on, one with it off."

Understood, good news for props.

still not truly getting genesis to look correct from the CR2 exporter at this point.

SM May need to update poser pro to support true CC subD
if they want to suppot genesis it seems.

Cheers

What I think about all of this is :

the result of the new unsuported figures by Daz ( Genesiss and V5 ) Will cause to spluit the Market in two halfs.

Resulting that a creator specializing for one of the two sided will have eventually a loss of income of 50 Percent.

As for allot of people have invested for several years into Poser and V4 it will be a hard descision to drop the collection and start all over with an new figure, even worse with an all new Progeamm for hobyists witch costs as much as a Professional Programm.

The consumer will think twice on what he buys, also resulting the question an I gonna buy more for v4 if she whont be suported for the future !!

I think most will descide to stick on what they have!

As for the creators who do not support both System we all can assume the result for their income especially for a new Product witch is to handle with caution as it never will replace one that has lasted for so many years on a market.

Actually it is not the question who does better , who has the better figure who suported who ( Poser Vs Daz ) either one could not of existed without the other

so no Poser no Daz!!! No Daz = Poser not as good.

It is up to the consumer what suits him best and what he is gonna use for the future. witch will lead the markets direction and not the Producer of the figure the Producer only proposes a new idea if it fails he will need to change direction to a suported one.

Personally:

I Have collected eneugh over all these years and invested eneugh time on Poser so that I will not switch , even if it where for free, investing further into V4 or figures suported by Poser but not for an all new Librarie Collection Nor Programm just because of a Virtual Doll witch will cause to burn Holes into my Purse. 

Heh.

And that is the danger. To this point, DAZ has had the consession; a new Vickie came out, and their servers were hosed for 2-3 days after with all the purchases. But not this time. And it isn't like Draper is known for innovation, either. Morph injection, error correcting morphs, joint controlled morphs, all were creations of Poser geeks. Hell, even the bug that made conforming clothing possible was discovered and exploited by users first. And initially they were the province of the geeks. Now, not so much.

What's changed with this Poser release is that DAZ didn't have a figure ready to bombard us with, to trigger that 'get the new shiny!' reflex they've trained into too many. So now those old geeks are coming out of the woodwork. There are already at least 2 seperate figure projects that I'm aware of (outside the retrofit projects) that are working to establish a new benchmark. More and more users are -wanting- to use advanced features like dynamic cloth (particularly since some folks have experimented and worked out what all those numbers mean, and the mesh topology issues that have to be included to get the results you want). Now you have people -wanting- to use the material room; and all it took was BagginBill showing how it worked. Just like those old geeks showed their tricks. And now we have the chance to build and deploy a figure taking advantage of the new tricks P9/2012 can do. The community is what made Poser what it is. Now we have the chance to do it again, and not be restrained by a certain refusal to implement =any= feature outside of Poser 4's feature set. These are potentially Renissance times, not the End Of All(tm).

And no, obviously, I don't intend to switch to DS4. As wolf said, the animation controls are, for lack of a better word, worthless. A pity GoFigure! didn't get that Poser version of Animate done. Would have sold like crazy....... 

Quote - These are potentially Renissance times, not the End Of All(tm).

That's how I feel.  I'm more excited than distressed at these changes. 

Quote - SM May need to update poser pro to support true CC subD
if they want to suppot genesis it seems.

Actually I'd love this feature and I don't care about Genesis at all, I suspect a whole lot of people would appreciate it.  Great for characters sure, but great for all sorts of things besides.  Let's keep our fingers crossed for that.

Quote - What I think about all of this is :

the result of the new unsuported figures by Daz ( Genesiss and V5 ) Will cause to spluit the Market in two halfs.

Resulting that a creator specializing for one of the two sided will have eventually a loss of income of 50 Percent.

....

Why that? When all the creators specialize in creation of either DS or Poser content, there will be only half the number of creators for their particular application. So the spent money will distribute among a lesser number of business rivals, and they will earn the same as before.

In other words: The money people spent for poser is likely to be independent of wether they are using Poser or DS, so the amount of money sprinkled upon the vendors remains the same...

To return to the question = NO.

I have not seen anything special with V5.
She has nothing NEW!

So, if the figure is not worth it?
Why bother to pose the question ?????

But?
We are at page 7 already... :-)
All filled with the same old 26 letters in some strangely controlled disorder.

ha- ha- ha-

Answer is NO for the figure, resulting a NO for the app.

Happy Posering everybody,
sleep warm tonight.